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@Mikal
If the rest of the town agrees with massclaiming, I won't fight democracy. Just be sure you aren't doing more harm than good.
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@Savant
Also I literally got lynched while doing the percentages thing so what do people even want??
I mean, the main reason you got lynched day 1 in the last game is largely due to several people claiming a protective role. You and Mharman just came off as more sus behaviorally I guess. I don't think the percentages really had anything to do with it. I also disagree that you could just make stuff up. I mean you COULD, but that would generally be pretty obvious. Faking a convincing thought process as scum is generally pretty hard.
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@Mikal
Personally, I'm against mass claiming in general. I think that on balance, it helps scum more than town. The one game where I remember the town trying it, this turned out to be the case, as scum ended up winning.
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@whiteflame
Savant hasn't played as logically as he has the last couple of games, though I chalk that up to frustration over last game and uncertainty regarding his recent change-up to his strategy. It's different, sure, but it doesn't come off as scummy.
I agree that the frustration reads as genuine, but I could see him avoiding doing the percentage thing as scum largely because it would be hard to fake. I feel like it would require more effort as scum.
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@Mikal
My character's name starts with S. I doubt that will give too much away.
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@Mikal
Daytime mason. Yolo visits pie and risks getting killed if he’s wrong. [...] Wylted has kinda a shitty claim (thematically) but okie is verifying it. Literally reads like the info was pulled off a Google search
I believe the claim tbh, mainly because I know Pie is a fairly conservative mafia player and hates pulling gambits. It would also be an incredibly risky play from a Pie/Wylted team. I guess it's technically possible that Wylted would YOLO it anyway, but I don't think it's very likely. The claim also isn't absolutely horrible which makes me lean town on Wylted.
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@AdaptableRatman
Wylted is town, Im certain of it if his mason action pans out. No possible way Earth gave a day recruitment or chat invite thing to mafia.
I disagree, I've been a Mafia Mason before. Granted it was a nighttime invite and in a Luna game, but I don't see why it couldn't possibly be a mafia role. Though I will say that I highly doubt Wylted is going for a DP1 bus here.
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@AdaptableRatman
Why dont you want a long day to get many reads
Have you played with Wylted before?
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@AdaptableRatman
Vote Savant. Trust.
I really don't think you're getting Savant lynched today.
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I'm down with the Ratman lynch but don't want us to turbo this day before Owen has even arrived to check in yet. I was lowkey disappointed in the town for speeding through Day 2 of the last game.
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@Mikal
Thematically this is correct and kinda balsy to yolo claim at the start of the game. I’m okay with leaving him alone
The justification checks out, but the claim itself is scummy. Dreamer is already scummy to begin with, 1x Dreamer moreso. Also the fact that he asked me to visit him tonight as Wylted already brought out (though I guess that could have been an attempt at reverse psychology?).
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@AdaptableRatman
How exactly does your Dreamer work? I ask because I've seen a couple variations on it on this site, including Vader's version, which was kind of weird.
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@AdaptableRatman
Good reason to scumread me.Bad reason to vote me.
What? Why is scumreading someone ever a bad reason to vote for someone? That doesn't even make sense.
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@WyIted
Honestly, if it was anyone else posting someone like that, I'd instantly sus them for obvious buddying. From what little I've seen of him so far, however, I get the feeling that Ratman is just like that.
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Hello, checking in. Going to be busy again this week, but I have some free time tonight.
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@AdaptableRatman
Based on profile pic and a recent unban, I think death23 evaded his ban on Owen_T and decided he cant guarantee he masks a decice/IP match between those 2.
Just skimming through Death23's debates and comparing them to Owen's, I don't think this is true. They have very different styles.
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@whiteflame
Obligate anaerobes (can only survive and thrive without oxygen) vs. anything else (aerobes/facultative anaerobes). Stuck with something in the description near the top of each Wikipedia page, actually pretty close to the Gram stain result.
Yeah, I wouldn't have gotten that, lol
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/in
I have no preference as I have no familiarity with any of these.
I have no preference as I have no familiarity with any of these.
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@Lunatic
I had the game basically solved dp1 tho
I did, too, before Banana came in and caused chaos. I literally had it narrowed down to you, Pie, and Mikal, and I was 100% right, lol. After DP1 ended however, I was actually leaning towards Pie/Banana being the team, and being the first kill definitely made me more suspicious. You two honestly were great, but you ended up getting outplayed by Mharman. GG!
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@Savant
Wdym you don't remember? It was literally the exact same game. In any case, this is how she reacted:
hold the flippin phone. Did casey explicitly say you are the first Russian tsar?
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@Savant
Like banana is way calmer here
Wouldn't the more relevant Banana moment from that game be when she felt she had a CC on Earth at the end of DP1?
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@Savant
If you are town, the odds of at least one scum in a group of three players is 58%.
If you choose three random players other than yourself, the odds are about 64% according to my calculations. (1-(6 choose 3))/(8 choose 3)
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@ILikePie5
Luna, Casey, Wylted? What do yall think?
I'm kinda tired right now, both from work and little sleep, but I'm thinking I may have been right about Savant and Mharman the first time around, lol
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@WyIted
Sperm is good right? Maybe scum is sperm and whatever the scientific term for eggs are. Something like oogyboogy if I recall correct
Please tell me you're just trolling right now. You don't seriously believe sperm and ova are bacteria, right? I need to know that you know they aren't.
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@iamanabanana
How did you find out? What!
Okay, this changes things significantly. Mharman claims Doctor and Wylted has also claimed something protective (self-protective). That's three protective claims so far. One of you has to be lying.
Unvote for now
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@ILikePie5
@iamanabanana
Banana, for right now, do you have a protective role? Yes or no.
Pie, I see you, and I will respond to you, but it's probably going to have to wait until I'm done with work for me to share all my thoughts. For right now, I'll just say that my own justification barely even makes sense. I think WF just wanted to include my role in the game (it is actually thematically appropriate).
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@ILikePie5
So you want to lynch me even though I claimed I have a confirmable role?
Since when do you care about being confirmable? Being confirmable means jack shit. Plus, you said it's mostly useless, right?
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@ILikePie5
@iamanabanana
We’ll never know till he gets lynched.
This is not how you play mafia.
??? You’re comparing my reaction to Earth last game and saying my play style is different because I didn’t react the same way towards Savant when Earth and Savant don’t play the same way.
Then explain how Savant is behaviorally different this game.
I was referring to your balance argument. We don’t have the full picture if either or both of them are town.
If one of them claims something protective, I'll reevaluate. Why haven't you tagged Banana yourself? Here, I'll do it for you. In the meantime, I'm working based off the info I have.
And I explained the balance argument to you about the negative utility aspect with the Doctor and its extreme weakness by needing to select the scum NKer to begin with.
Avoider really isn't all that different from Brave Townie imo. And it's not the only role where you have to select the NKer for it to be effective. Shield (on MafiaScum) is like that as well.
Also, are you just going to ignore my argument against Savant? Is your justification as weak as his?
Mine is actually super weak. And I'm not ignoring the case for scum Savant, I just believe in town Savant more. It's half deduction, half gut feeling.
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@ILikePie5
Doesn’t mean that he’s not scum.
No, but again, Savant probably wouldn't be eager to straightclaim his scum character.
That’s a false equivalency. Earth is Earth. His play style was exactly the way it was as town, which I explained to Mikal. In fact, I think I said that if Earth is scum, Survivor was the fake claim or he was claiming his true character. His behavior though matched his town behavior even though it was scummy. That characterization doesn’t exist with Savant.
??? I genuinely don't know what you're talking about. Savant hasn't been acting any differently in this game from what I've seen. The percentages thing is new-ish, but that started in the previous game, and it makes sense that he'd continue with it.
You’re also forgetting that Banana and Mikal haven’t checked in yet either, and as you said, we don’t know the roles.
They both have. Mikal is pure null for me, and you also townread Banana. Contradict yourself much?
I’m not the lynch today.
Don't get too cocky.
Why do you townread Savant? What behavior or character/role/justification reason do you have?
I just explained this... Character and balance...
Pie's logic is so bad, lol
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First off virus is a synonym for disease in my book and bacteria is just the shit you wash off your hand to prevent viruses(Aka disease).
I can see Wylted of all people making a statement like this in all sincerity LMAO
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Okay, so one thing I couldn't help but notice about Pie is how he hasn't really taken into consideration my argument about Savant likely not faking his character in this game. Like I said:
Hold on, I just realized that everybody knows Salmonella, so it's probably not a fake character claim, and I don't think Savant would be eager to straightclaim his character so early.
This is significant, because in the last game, it was the main reason Pie was townreading Earth in spite of the evidence against him. And honestly, I'd say the case against Earth was about as strong as or stronger than the case against Savant right now. This feels like a change in playstyle for Pie.
The other argument of mine he hasn't responded to? Balance. I'm getting the feeling that Mharman, Savant, and Wylted really are all town, and part of that is balancing. Doctor is like Cop in that it's considered a pretty standard role, but it can also be very strong. The Enabler adds a bit of swing, but a role like Wylted's which can still potentially stop the NK even with the Doctor or Enabler dead helps prevent too much swing. It's actually some nice balance, and from what we've seen of WF so far, he seems to have the knack for it. Of course, this is all assuming everyone is telling the truth, but again, that's what my intuition is telling me.
Honestly, it might be way too early for me to narrow it down this much, but I get the feeling that the scum are among (Pie, Luna, Mikal). So yeah, I'm down to lynch Pie tonight. Even if he's town, it really helps with my PoE.
VTL Pie
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I actually think Wylted might be right about Pie being scum, for a very particular reason. I'll explain later. Like I said, busy, busy today.
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@ILikePie5
Leprosy and TB are not viruses.
No, but they are diseases caused by Mycobacteria.
And he earlier in the DP said he didn’t know what I was talking about when I mentioned TB and Leprosy.
Can you point me to this?
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Wylted is making it really hard for me to read him this game. On the one hand, behaviorally speaking, he feels normal to me, the way he's all over the place and so strong in his convictions. On the other hand, I really don't like the lack of a real justification for his role. It feels like it could be an excuse for not having to come up with a justification in the first place.
Disagreed with Pie on it being a pseudo-cc of Mharman, however. Yes, it's technically protective, but only self-protective, and only in very narrow circumstances. You can have a protective and a self-protective role in the same game; it's not all that uncommon. It could also balance for the Enabler, assuming that everyone who has claimed so far is telling the truth.
That said, given that we are running out of time in the DP, I'm okay with Wylted as a compromise lynch since his role isn't that useful even if he is town.
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I have thoughts on Wylted's claim, but I'll have to share them later, probably during my next break. I'm super busy today.
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@ILikePie5
Can you point me to where you see this?
#271. Though in retrospect, I realize that Savant was probably pushing Mharman mainly due to him having the lowest percentage according to Savant's code. I also somehow missed that Savant had already claimed Enabler by that point (probably because it came right before AR suddenly appeared to cause more dumb drama). The post itself is still sus, though. It's like he knew Mharman was the doctor somehow.
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Hold on, I just realized that everybody knows Salmonella, so it's probably not a fake character claim, and I don't think Savant would be eager to straightclaim his character so early. I need to rethink this.
Unvote
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Basically, the whole situation with Savant voting for Mharman and Mharman claiming doctor felt staged to me.
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@Savant
#359 - SL - A bit opportunistic, plus a weird assumption with no detailed analysis to go with it.
Fair enough, I was planning on expanding on my thoughts on my break, which is now. Basically, it was the way you suggested that Mharman might have some role which could town confirm him and voted for him for no clear reason. And then, hey presto, he's the doctor! But he weirdly refused to claim his character, which made me think that he may have asked if there was a Doctor and was told no, but maybe his character question didn't work out so well. Or, maybe he just hasn't come up with anything good.
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@Savant
I'm assuming your scum lean on everyone except Mharman is a mistake.
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@Savant
1) If you're right, the game is basically solved, and you don't need to lynch either of us today.
Okay, this is a HORRIBLE defense, and it reminds me of Austin's defense of Savant in BotW Mafia. Also, the idea that WIFOM doesn't work this far out from MYLO... What?
I'm actually pretty comfortable doing this.
VTL Savant
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Anyone else getting the vibe that Savant and Mharman are a team?
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@Mharman
Withholding my character to make fake claiming slightly harder for scum.
This makes no sense. You already claimed your role, just full claim.
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@ILikePie5
Then I saw post 195 and that reads a lot like what Savant would post. He basically already does in his chunk posts. I’ve also never seen Wylted go back to previous games if I recall correctly
Idk, rereading the back and forth between Savant and Wylted, it doesn't feel staged to me. I am having a hard time reading them, however. I will say that the only other time I can remember Wylted building a whole case against someone was in Heroic Heroes, where he was scum. He did say that he went back to look at my previous posts to judge me in UPick, however, and correctly figured out that I was scum. So there's that.
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