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@16kadams
I always thought that would be a good name for a comic book villain.
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@thett3
It is a pretty terrible username
How dare you play the "ouch" card instead of roasting me back. You knew that is an insta-KO for me.
Well played.
Seriously, it's not bad at all.
Re: the like button -- I tend to disagree that there should not be social elements to a debate site, so long as the social elements never come at the expense of debate and discourse. So I see such features as harmless. Better than harmless, since their usefulness in preventing clutter has already been stated. Personally, I like being able to like a good post that I have nothing to add to. But I'm not really clear on what your concern with it is, beyond "this isn't reddit."
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@16kadams
Gender: femaleOpinion: discarded
Pfft. I was at least a little creative. You gave that zero effort.
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@thett3
Your username sounds like 14-year-old Boba Fett introducing himself with a new tongue stud. Therefore your argument is meaningless.
This logic is unassailable.
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I hate oromagi because he won't let me dress him up as the doctor from Voyager and call him bish.
Just get in the fucking suit, dude.
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You mean, I shouldn't just lurk and stare at them in accusatory silence until I'm sure they're not Wylted?I don't understand.This is exactly what happened to me and I swear to Locic, I'm not Wylted!
No, no, our forensic analysts eliminated you as a suspect early on due to a combination of factors. Look, we're experts, there's a methodology here. Let me break it down for you:
- Your willingness to engage in constructive in-depth discussions during which you genuinely considered the opinions of others.
- Your lack of interest in setting fires and watching them burn.
- Your good-natured humor, which does not match any pattern of Wylted's on file.
- Your periods of extended inactivity. Clearly your interest in posting on the site comes and goes.
- You haven't referred to anything sexual even once, that I've seen. At the very least you've gone a week without mentioning sex or sexual power dynamics, which is longer than Wylted can go.
- You have espoused only liberal views.
- Your personal anecdotes usually contributed to the discussion and never appeared to be inflammatory bullshit.
- I could go on.
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@Incel-chud
I miss Victoria.
I think that was her name anyway. Remember, you said you wanted to join the no-fap movement but you found a way around the rules by saying Victoria was a spirit inhabiting your body. Such a genteel lady. Well, compared to you.
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@Incel-chud
Look we already have a process for new members, I thought we were all agreed on this.
1. Check when the new member joined.
2. Have a discussion among ourselves about which of our previous trolls this could be.
3. Read their preliminary posts through narrowed eyes.
4. Have another discussion among ourselves about which of our previous trolls this could be.
5. Interact with them suspiciously.
6. Have another discussion among ourselves about which of our previous trolls this could be.
7. Accuse them of being one of the previous trolls.
8. Listen to them refute it.
9. Vote and agree that yes it's Wylted again.
And so it has always been, back into antiquity. You're just gonna come up in here and upset the DART natural order?
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You mean, I shouldn't just lurk and stare at them in accusatory silence until I'm sure they're not Wylted?
I don't understand.
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It's just basic whataboutism, which everyone with an ideological bias has probably been guilty of at some point.
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@Lunar108
Do you agree or not on thatjesus true father would have been known if they had DNA tests back then ?instead of this garbage about god's son .
This may be an anachronistic question.
The idea that Jesus was literally the son of God and a virgin probably didn't develop, or at least become mainstream, until well after his death. So there's every possibility that if we hopped in a time machine and offered DNA testing to Jesus's contemporaries, they would say something like, "What do you mean? His father is Joseph, we all know that."
Let's look at what data we have:
- Mark, our first Gospel to be written, mentions nothing about a divine virgin birth. Scholars usually consider it more adoptionistic -- God adopts Jesus as his son at Jesus's baptism. My guess is the Markan community was unaware of the virgin birth narrative. Maybe it hadn't developed yet, maybe it hadn't circulated to that community.
- John, our last Gospel to be written, is also mum about Jesus's virgin birth. It even refers to Jesus as the "son of Joseph." The Johannine community may have been unaware of the virgin birth narrative too, or they may have just been uninterested in incorporating it. The progression sort of goes:
- Mark: "Jesus was special from his baptism on" --> Matthew & Luke: "Jesus was special from birth" --> John: "Jesus was special even before his birth."
- Matthew and Luke are the only two books in the entire New Testament which attest to the divine parthenogenesis, and their accounts conflict.
- Matthew, at least, seems to have based his virgin birth narrative on a misunderstanding of an Old Testament prophecy. Matthew was reading the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, which renders the Hebrew almah ("young woman") as parthenos (which is apparently more ambiguous, like "maiden" -- it could mean "young woman" or "virgin"). So Matthew, who was kind of obsessed with prophecy fulfillment, said, "Ah! The prophecy says he must be born of a virgin!" even though it doesn't say that. It wasn't even really a prophecy, by the way. Matthew just sort of took one bit of Isaiah out of context and called it a prophecy.
- Paul, our earliest and potentially best-informed source on Jesus, whose writings predate even the Gospels, also says nothing about the virgin birth, even though he directly addresses the issue of Jesus's birth: he says only that Jesus was "born of a woman, born under the law" -- as if Jesus was born like any other Jew. Bart Ehrman notes that Paul only needed to change one word ("born of a woman" to "born of a virgin") to incorporate the virgin birth story. He didn't. Paul claims to have met Jesus's brother James, and I actually believe him. He does not appear to have come away from this meeting with any knowledge that Jesus's birth was out of the ordinary.
- Jesus's original followers were Jews, who likely believed in the messiah as Jews of that time and place understood the term: a human hero, born to human parents, descended from David, and chosen by God to rule his kingdom on Earth. In Jewish scripture, the messiah was never supposed to be born of a virgin. They may have indeed called Jesus the son of God -- but this is a term we see applied elsewhere in the Old Testament with no implication that God literally fathered that person (except in the sense that God is everyone's father).
This all indicates to me that the virgin birth narrative was not widespread or mainstream in the first century. By the time John is written, 90-100 CE -- sixty to seventy years after Jesus's death -- it still isn't widespread or mainstream. Of the two Gospels which mention it, we can eliminate Matthew as basing his narrative on a translation misunderstanding, leaving only Luke. This is rickety foundation indeed on which to base the assertion that Jesus was born of a virgin, or that everyone knew he was reputedly born of a virgin in his century. Mark and John and even Paul would have found the virgin birth very relevant and very useful information -- it heightens Jesus's importance and exceptionalism, aids their ideological and rhetorical goals in every way. Why did they leave it out? The simplest answer is that they did not know about it.
My guess? Jesus's biological father was Joseph.
I honestly cannot believe I typed all that. I must be procrastinating.
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@Stephen
Pretty old posts. But they do appear to present something of a contradiction. Maybe Trade can clarify for us.
Although Paul was considered by some to have been "Gnostic".
Doesn't seem like a strong hypothesis. I don't see much Gnostic influence in the Pauline epistles. A better case for Gnostic influence could be made for the Gospel of John, I think, as Bultmann theorized. But I'm not sure his conjecture is widely supported in the academic community.
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@Stephen
Your link is a pretty interesting read.
The doctrine of Christ was not founded in the life and teachings of Yeshua, but rather, it was the invention of Paul.
An argument could be made that the Gospels establish more of Christ's accepted doctrines than Paul's epistles do -- and I have no reason to think that Paul and the authors of the Gospels knew each other. Paul's letters predate the Gospels, and there's no sign he was involved in their composition that I'm aware of.
But I spy an answer to my previous question:
Unlike the false “Gnostics” of ages past who considered themselves to be “Gnostic Christians” or “Gnostic Jews”, the True Gnostic is simply a True Gnostic.
So the difference is eschewing Christ and/or Yahweh as the foundation of one's belief? Guess RM was right, then -- doesn't sound like Christians to me.
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@Stephen
Neither are we representative of those Gnostics which early church fathers argued against in their efforts to establish a single church orthodoxy with its attendant ecclesiastical authority.
^ My mistake then. Misinterpreted this sentence.
What separates a false Gnostic from a "true" Gnostic in your view?
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@Stephen
"We"? Hold up, are you a Gnostic?
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@RationalMadman
This is the first thread of his I've read. Maybe I geeked out prematurely. I'll check out his others.
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@GnosticChristianBishop
How do you discern an evil religion from evil actors? The major religions have texts that are a mixed bag of good and bad, mercy and vengefulness, etc. This leaves individuals pretty free to cherry pick which parts agree with what they already want to believe.
When I think "evil religion" the closest thing that springs to mind is probably Scientology. And even Scientology has members who are well-meaning and just misguided.
But a Gnostic Christian? Really? That is fascinating, I have had zero opportunity to talk to one. Do you draw from the Nag Hammadi texts? Or is your faith less text-based than mainstream Christians', in keeping with the doctrine of gnosis? Do you equate Satan with the demiurge?
Hmm. Maybe these questions would be better suited for a separate thread purely about Gnostic Christianity.
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@Lemming
Wow, you sent me a question six months ago. Sorry about that. I guess I should check my questions more.
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@Vader
A lot of people just saw the prominent figure for Max (Mikal) dishing it out at RM and just thought, is this how the presidency is going to be?
Get out of my head, Supa.
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Congratulations to Airmax! Hope I get to know him for myself. My lack of familiarity with him and his lack of prior involvement in the site gave me some misgivings, but I thought he had the better platform.
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(Word has it the VP's real job is to fluff Airmax, and DART unanimously and silently voted for thett, knowing he was the best man for the job.)
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Okay approximately how many site epochs will it take me to live this weight class comment down
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@Mikal
What's rational about this madman, he doesn't like to thinkEgo so fragile he that he needs to see a shrinkSure he's mad and not a not a man so the name is out of syncHe claims I'm abusive and he likes it, he's into some weird kinksIt's a shame he likes to pray to mods while he plays the preyThis ain't abuse it just happens to be in a zone thats grayi paved the way for those that say they are lost and strayWhat's rational about a madman that's mad it's just a walking cliche
Omg.
I now demand a formal full length rap battle in the debates section. Dooooo eeeeet.
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@Wylted
I don't think he's stupid. I would argue that most people are not receptive to lessons that come from a place of hostility or ridicule.This is stupid. If your enemy puts sugar in your coffee, than your coffee tastes sweet, but if a friend even accidently poisons your coffee, you still die.Don't think about how the message is packaged, just think of how useful it is.
Probably good advice for all of us, but not how the human brain works. Our internal "identify friend/foe" system usually has first crack at all cognitive input.
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@RationalMadman
They have broken several rules, it's a fact and not an opinion. The mods are just biased af.
I haven't witnessed this rule breaking, then. Unless you're saying the satire screenshots should qualify as personal attacks?
That's actually true, Castin is being really patronising with her depiction of events. You aren't above me in any fucking sense.
Eh, that's fair. But you can either be the victim or a strong independent pugilist who doesn't need help. Not both, buddy.
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@Mikal
That is fair and I will take that fully. I just refuse to let him go off on fully blatant rants and lies about max. Specifically because max refuses to address it since it's more of a bother than anything. So a lot of new people don't know him, see what RM is posting and assume it's true. I'm just here to troll him till he stops
Thanks for hearing me out, at least.
They told me you are below my weight class and not to punch down on you. They are not sympathizing with your position, they are saying you are to stupid/stubborn to learn the lesson that is being taught.
I don't think he's stupid. I would argue that most people are not receptive to lessons that come from a place of hostility or ridicule. The weight class comment was in reference to how much harder he takes these things than you or Lunatic.
Well, and also you seem better at trolling. But I would need to see Rash's meme game for a true comparison. Or maybe just a rap battle between you and him. That could also settle it. That's basically just trolling to a beat.
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@Mikal
I could see how that is how you would take it without full context and I respect that, and I promise in all honesty its not taking advantage of him for amusement. The goal of this is to show him he can't just blindly insult and swing and not expect to receive shit back. For example he has went through posts and reported every thing someone posts when he disagrees with them just so moderation will hopefully eventually listen to him. He wants to be able to block you and say bad things about you without the consequences of someone calling him out or responding to him. When he does it someone it's fine because to him he sees it as a critique but when someone does it him, then they are a bully etc. I promise you if it was so one sided whiteflame or moderation would have stepped in and I ask them constantly if I'm going to far etc and they are fully aware that he dishes as much as he gets which is why they have not intervened. I know slapping on the hand publicly is probably not the best way to handle most situations like that but for him, it's the only way you drive it in his brain.I just don't take his bullshit victim mentality and instead of being just mean to him, usually meming him drives the point much harder because he responds poorly to it.
Sounds like you're saying you're trying to teach him that when he fires the first shot, he shouldn't expect no one to fire back.
The problem with that is RM never thinks he fired the first shot -- he thinks he's firing a retaliatory shot for some past offense against him.
So all you're probably teaching him is that he's not allowed to defend himself, because when he tries, he gets ganged up on and repetitively mocked and the mods are unmoved. This strikes me as something that could exacerbate a victim mentality, not treat it.
I don't think you've broken any rules or are a terrible person or anything. I just think you're punching beneath your weight class and it's bad form.
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Ugh. More of this shit? You make me regret casting my vote.Thank you for saying this Castin. I haven't been on in a very long while and this is one of the reasons why.I appreciate satire, after all I am very active on Twitter 🤪. But I don't like it when users, who are part of a clique, find a way to bully someone without breaking the CoC rules.This happened to me in the political forum and I wouldn't wish this on anyone!
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you give us another try. I remember your posts in the politics and religion forums and always wished you'd stuck around.
I don't know either Mikal or Lunatic that well, but RM has gotten in feuds with people I've liked before, so I'm not writing them off over this or anything. Plus Luna stuck up for bish, a former moderator I liked, and I never forgot that.
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@Mikal
you arent voting for me luckily
Hopefully my internet will let this one through.
I just think it's in poor taste to keep ganging up on someone more vulnerable than you. It didn't really help the perception that Airmax is the silent king of some web-based frat.
But I fully realize I have not seen one bit of evidence of Airmax joining in personally; hence my vote. I also realize that it's not like RationalMadman hasn't taken any swings, but when he swings it's nothing to you. When you swing, it's an assault on his sanity. You seem to be taking advantage of this imbalance for personal amusement. I'm not telling you not to defend yourself or your comrades, but this just seems gratuitous.
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Ugh. More of this shit? You make me regret casting my vote.
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@Lunatic
A'ight.
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Man, my internet connection is really straining with all this bad weather. I might lose it before I can vote.
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@badger
I was just looking for a good debate site and DDO was the first google hit.
Scratch that: I was heroically fighting two dark wizards in a magic duel on a pirate ship when one of the wizards imprisoned my soul in cyber space and I wound up on DDO, and had to think my way out with only my wits. The dark wizards' names were Grumblystoke and Arturius, and the pirate ship was called Cruel Mercy. This is now my official story.
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@RationalMadman
Eh, I found out 3RU7AL won't do Twitter. Airmax has at least promised to try. The bottom line for me is what's best for the site.
If not for a stray taunt from Lunatic, you'd still be trying to convince me to vote for Airmax, too.
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@Lunatic
You are free to take whatever I say with a grain of salt since you assume I am "chummy" with airmax, but I am surprised you are basing so much of your vote on the opinions of others opinion on a user.
Well little do YOU know I'm basing my vote on the opinions of others' opinions of others' opinions on a user! BAM.
I would recommend you read both campaigns yourself and decide. Obviously I would encourage you to vote airmax's because his will be objectively better, but even then I would rather you just research yourself than judge an opinion from someone as volatile and flip floppy as RM. Airmax literally did nothing to justify him switching his vote. Him switching his vote is literally only him trying to get back at me, because I keep logically handing it to him the forums. Regardless of whether you take my side on this or not, I can guarantee you RM is using his vote for manipulative purposes and not over anything airmax actually did.Just research both candidates yourself and form your own conclusion. You've had enough dealings with RM that you have to know somewhat what I am talking about here...
Not sure what more I can do, beyond what I already have: read their threads, asked them questions, and in Airmax's case, listened to those who have personal experience with him. Sounds like you're concerned I might not have done that already? I have, never fear.
I know how much RM dislikes Airmax, so when he endorsed him, I took more notice. I've never been in the Airmax in-group, and neither has RM, so maybe that was a factor too.
But you don't really need to worry. I didn't take anything you said as damning evidence against Airmax and your drama with RationalMadman will not have a bearing on my vote. I'll choose the person I think can best help the site grow.
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@RationalMadman
Ask Airmax to provide any evidence he has pull on Twitter that he boasts.
Nah. I don't require that he already have pull, just that he makes a good effort.
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@RationalMadman
If Airmax had so much sway like that then the real question is this, why hasn't he used it yet?
We could ask the same of 3RU7AL. The answer is probably the same: They've been busy with their own lives just like we have, and this race is their attempt to become more involved in helping the community.
Airmax may bring in more thuglike socialites but do you know how you were treated on DDO? That's exactly how anyone outside of the inner circle ends up treated when Airmax is in charge with whiteflame by his side, which is going to instantly be happening.
They did always seem clique-y to me, but I care more about the health of the site than about how I'm personally treated. As long as we get a bunch of new users I could give a shit if I'm not in the in-crowd.
If 3RU7AL wins, Airmax's fanboys will probably leave the site out of disappointment or spite, and we're too small to be able to afford many walkouts; a lot would then depend on 3RU7AL to bring in more people to replenish our number. And 3RU7AL isn't interested in promoting the site on Twitter, which is the best place for it.
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@3RU7AL
Would you consider organizing on Twitter as well? DART needs a Twitter account for maximizing recruitment.no.
Got it.
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@3RU7AL
Would you consider organizing on Twitter as well? DART needs a Twitter account for maximizing recruitment.
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@airmax1227
Are you serious about Twitter outreach for DART? More users for the site is my #1 concern.
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@RationalMadman
3RU7AL wants to advertise through places like the Hive or his blog.
"https://bbs.market/ZLOGIC/posts - - it's easy to reach tons of people hereI also have 35+ members on my discord channel and even more in my contacts list who would be good initiates for DebateArt.comand 422 followers here - https://hive.blog/@logiczombieI recently exposed some fundamental errors in the HIVE system and my notoriety has skyrocketed there."
Airmax wants to advertise through Twitter.
Growth needs to begin with a trickle of awareness, new members and activity, drive that planned development over time, and do that within reasonable metrics over specific periods. One step towards this goal requires that we dust off that ol' twitter account and get some hits going. We'll eventually also focus on SEO areas, but I want DART to actually be something people get linked to because of their interest in debate - that needs to be the focus, what brings in new quality members, and what retains those members. It's not enough just to hashtag the common abortion debate, we need to get specifically topical. If there is a trending hashtag and a breaking event we need to incentivize and encourage debates on it immediately to make DART at the forefront of that interest. To that end, we are going to begin the DART STARS DEBATE TEAM (or we can call it something else if you have a better name). This cadre of the willing are going to be tasked by the Social Media Director to start these topical debates and then we'll get the twitter account to feed on those trends.
Twitter is better for reaching more people.
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@RationalMadman
I was swaying toward Airmax, per your logic that this site needs new users more than just about any other concern at this point. Now you've changed your mind just because Lunatic claimed Airmax laughed at you back in the Slytherin common room or something?
You were the only one telling me to vote for Airmax who was not an Airmax fanboy. If Luna has indeed flipped your endorsement, then he has flipped one of the endorsements I found the most unbiased. You seemed willing to put your feelings and your past history with Airmax aside to support the candidate you believed was best for DART. That held more weight to me than an endorsement from someone who's always been chummy with Airmax.
So I'm asking you to put your feelings aside again, and tell me: Do you still think Airmax is our best bet for saving DART? You said before that you know Airmax has the ability to bring in more people and stop the site from dying. Is that still true? Because that's kind of all I need to know.
The bottom line for me is that if this site loses many more users, it's going to die. Just trickle off into total inactivity. I'm not aware of any other user on DART with web development experience who is willing to take on the burden of launching a new site for us, which means if DART goes under, we're all just gonna have to take the boat to the Ellis Island of a new website -- a site where we won't have the same community, and won't have a voice in site governance or development. Now as far as I know, only one of our candidates has a platform based on site growth.
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@Wylted
Granted the religion forum was the wild west and went too far, and you are judging the modding practices entirely on your experience in the religion forum, which generally despised any mod interference, had a different culture than the rest of the site and was generally resistant to moderation. I don't like the religion forum culture and usually avoid that section, but it is the culture they wanted. Serious religious discussion can and should go in the philosophy forum anyway.
You are basically saying here that moderation should not be applied equally to all forums.
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@Lunatic
Are you for more moderation or less moderation?
I'm content with our current level of moderation. I would definitely be against more, but I would be open to trying less.
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@Wylted
I suppose you're talking about the Mesmer ban? Under bish, you could espouse prejudice toward a broad group as long as you did not direct it at a user. Sort of like how I didn't ban you for that "Are Blacks the Worst Debaters?" debate until you started calling your opponent Kunta Kinte and demanding he call you "master."
Ah. Those were the days, weren't they buddy.
Anyway, it appears policy has changed since then. It's hard to be sad to see a change from "broad racism allowed" to "no racism allowed," though.
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@Wylted
They literally banned people here for wrong think.
I've only ever seen them ban people for violating the CoC. If you think the CoC should be changed, they have an avenue of appeal for that. But this whole idea that the mods are Big Brother controlling your thoughts or exiling people for dissenting opinion is bullshit as far as I can tell.
From bish to Ragnar to whiteflame and Supa, I have only ever seen decent and well-meaning moderating on this site -- with above-average community outreach and communication. But you guys have complained about the mods since DART began, and I have never really understood it. Personally I think you were just used to being able to get away with anything on DDO, and didn't like that that changed. But that's just me.
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@Lunatic
If you liked bsh1 you would like airmax. Bsh1 was a big fan of airmax on DDO as well. Trust me you qould like airmax. I encourage you to message him and ask him questions and get to know him. He is a good guy, a hard worker, and someone you will 100% like if you give him a chance. He's right up your ally.
Well I would ask bish himself, but they BURNED HIM AT THE STAKE.
But at least I'm not bitter or anything.
You know I loved bish, but I feel like if bish had been moderating DDO, the religion forum wouldn't have been nearly as bad. The two may have been friendly, but that doesn't mean I would like their moderating styles equally.
I realize the president is not a mod, but he will influence moderation, and it could be said that the presidency is a strong audition for a moderator position.
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@RationalMadman
Eesh. That's a turn-off.
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@RationalMadman
I hear you. I'll consider it. Site promotion is definitely a pivotal issue for me.
He isn't becoming a mod, he's becoming a power-check for mods and official even hoster.
This was why I was gonna vote for 3RU7AL. He seems like a better power-check. But I'm not aware of 3RU7AL having said anything about working to promote the site...
The suggestion in your OP is that Airmax will not work to promote the site if he loses. What are you basing that on? Did he say as much?
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