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DDO's CoC was never enforced that I observed and so was functionally meaningless until we brought it here and actually enforced it. Then people whined and complained because they were unaccustomed to Airmax's rules actually being enforced.
I judge a mod by what they do, not what they write up on the board and ignore, and I never saw Airmax do anything. It sounds like that's what you guys liked about him, but that's a big "meh" for me.
The only thing I find compelling is Airmax's promise to promote and advertise the site. I think that should be a top priority.
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@RationalMadman
I just don't know Airmax. I never saw him moderate in my two years on DDO, even though I witnessed offenses I thought were worthy of it. All I know about him is that he has some kind of cult of personality and a laissez-faire approach to moderating.
I know 3RU7AL and I like him. He has a healthy skepticism toward authority and power. Airmax's relationship to power seems... less clear, and potentially suspect. But I don't really know for sure, because, again, I have no experience with him.
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@Lunar108
There's no such thing as religious plagiarism, really. The contents of all our religions go into the cultural mixing pot and everyone dips into it.
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@Outplayz
I'm coming out of retirement and i want to be the president/mod of this forum. I am the dragon queen after all... in some dreams anyways.
In other words, we'll like you a lot for most of your reign, but then you'll go cray-cray and set everyone on fire with your dragons and Jon Snow will cry? Well... I suppose it's better than what we'd get if Wylted ran the place. Okay, you've got my vote.
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@Wylted
I will never understand why you guys turn the presidential elections on this forum into Game of Thrones.
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@zedvictor4
An orgy of genital mutilation and head butting walls perhaps.And other very sensible stuff.
I can only assume you are hyperbolically referring to the way many devout Jews pray at the Western Wall, swaying backward and forward and periodically touching their heads to the wall.
Zed, you've said a lot I agree with in the past, and I think circumcision is a fair target of criticism, but this description of Jews praying at the wall crossed the line for me. It's antisemitic, it's insensitive. Consider that wall's history and what it represents to Jews. Is this really the kind of remark you want to make?
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why is it that people are willing to believe magical stories that they would have dismissed as nonsense once they are mentioned under religion ,many of the stories mentioned under religion are just crazy and if you remove the religious background of the story it would be placed under fiction and if someone came and told the story - without the religion- , you would probably tell them that they are lying , because such thing can't happen at the world or at the very least not on our world .
This question can be broadened: Why do humans often compartmentalize their critical thinking?
I would argue that most people have done this at some point and to some degree. I have been guilty, for instance, of being more critical of a stranger for doing something wrong than of a friend who did the same thing. Why?
So I'll posit three factors that I think may go into this:
- We tend to suspend our critical thinking when it comes to things we're invested in, or that serve our physical, emotional, and psychological needs.
- We tend to dismiss what is outside our experience. A stranger running up and telling you a fantastical story is something that falls outside your experience -- you don't know the stranger or the story. But if you connect the story to something familiar and personal, like your religion, suddenly it gains much more cognitive traction for you.
- We tend to suspend our critical thinking when something comes from an authority. Our propensity for this has been well documented and is not unique to religious people.
The supernatural stories you're talking about meet all three of these qualifiers for the people who believe in them: 1) these stories are part of a religion they are emotionally invested in, 2) this religion is familiar and personal, 3) the stories come from a source they regard as authoritative.
My own personal example may not meet all three, but it meets several: My friend is familiar and known to me, so I am more forgiving. I am invested in my friend, and my friend serves my emotional and psychological needs.
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@RationalMadman
Yeah, my cat started crapping outside the litter box again and I got distracted and never got back to finishing the article.
But I was able to pick him up and put him in the litter box before the turd was fully out, and I think we can all agree that's what's really important here.
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@Lemming
Fair perspective,Sometimes I comment more one the conversation, than a person, and avoid @ing people, if I don't feel my comment 'adds enough to the conversation, to be worth notifying them.Why comment at all, if it doesn't add enough to the conversation, well, sometimes one just likes to aside remark, at no one in particular.
Bah -- we all make side remarks! You can @ me for anything. If we worried about how much we add to the conversation, we would never have spinoff conversations -- which in my experience are usually more fun.
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@Lemming
Lot of variation in that Christian lens though,Christians I've known, and Christian perspectives I've enjoyed reading,Did not seem to make or believe "the whole point of being in a religion was so that you got a chance at some afterlife."
Almost missed this. @ me, bruh.
I definitely agree there is variation, as there is in any major religion. However, my experience with Christians is that heaven and hell play a large role in their psychology and their faith. They probably wouldn't say "the whole point" of their religion is the afterlife, of course. They would probably say the whole point of their religion is Jesus, and salvation through him. That doesn't mean that heaven is not the end goal of their efforts, the finish line of their life, the thing that they are ultimately moving towards. What does "salvation through him" ultimately mean? Being saved from hell -- and being granted the reward of heaven.
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@Lunar108
When the 33-year-old man went in for a CT scan of his pelvis, doctors saw that he had a rectal-prostate fistula, a rare condition where the body develops a hole that connects the rectum with the lower urinary tract and creates all kinds of problems (like shit in one's piss and vice versa). In this man's case, the hole created a new passageway for his sperm to travel; instead of flowing out of his dick, as he might expect, it took a hard left out of his anus.
I mean, tragic... but also kind of hilarious? Maybe not the best example of the problem of suffering?
The problem of suffering is probably the #1 reason I rejected theism, but the examples foremost in my mind were things like child sex trafficking and the cancer cell and starving children. Not guy-jizzes-out-his-ass stuff.
Or maybe you were trying to say that the sheer absurdity of this genetic defect disproves God? Eh... not a strong argument, imo. But a hilarious one.
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@TheUnderdog
The Hebrews seem to have had different theological priorities.Like what?
Again, I am not Jewish, but my understanding of Judaism's theological priorities are as follows:
- To keep the Covenant.
- To obey and uphold God's law as laid down by Moses.
- Tradition, family, Torah.
And if you keep these values, you will receive reward in this life.
"What happens when I die?" is a big question, and one we all ask, but there are other questions that can be just as central to a religion. How do I navigate the stormy seas of life? How do I know what's right and wrong? How can I be happy and achieve prosperity? Where do I belong?
If their goal was to become a better person, you don't need religion to do this. You can do it by living according to your own morals (with some exceptions. If you think raping is moral, you still shouldn't be allowed to rape).
Well, as an atheist I obviously agree that you don't need religion to be moral or to live well. But the peoples of the past needed to infuse moral standards with divine authority in order for those standards to have broad efficacy.
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@TheUnderdog
Why would someone want to be Jewish if they weren't focused on the afterlife? I thought the whole point of being in a religion was so that you got a chance at some afterlife.
I am not Jewish and will not presume to know a Jewish person's answer.
However, I feel that your question, as well as the statement in your second sentence, have been heavily influenced by Christianity. You suppose that a religion's primary purpose is to allay anxiety about the afterlife, or to use the afterlife as a cudgel to correct and control behavior in this life. But the Hebrew Bible shows us that that understanding of religion may be narrow. The Hebrews seem to have had different theological priorities.
When we are studying Judaism, we should not do so through a Christian lens. This can be hard, since Christianity has so heavily influenced how we see religion.
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The Hebrew Bible is relatively vague about the afterlife and Sheol, and doesn't focus on it much. When it does address the afterlife, its description varies. This leaves individual Jews a lot of room to form their own interpretations of the afterlife. It also leaves scholars and theologians plenty to discuss and debate over.
I find it fascinating that the afterlife does not seem to be a priority in the Hebrew Bible. It's so atypical of religion as I have experienced it.
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@zedvictor4
Pretence.1. An attempt to make something that is not the case appear true.Synonyms: Make-believe, act.Gods and Father Christmas fit the definition perfectly.
I have been around theists all my life. I was born in a rural Protestant community, and I still live there. All my friends irl -- and not online -- are theists.
And I have to say that overwhelming experience has shown me that their belief in God is not a pretense.
There will always be professed theists who are merely imitating faith, who are only pretending because it's easier to go with the flow and conform. But to say that all theists or even most theists are pretending?
They derive the very meaning of their life, their self-identity, their place within the universe, from their god. They structure their lives and behavior around what they believe their god wants and declares to be righteous. They cling to their god in their lowest moments, they pray with the deepest and most sincere parts of themselves.
Politicians, by and large, are only maintaining the pretense of religiosity. They're putting on a show. But why? Because their constituents really are religious and really do believe. And they take advantage of it.
So I am left wondering -- why do you doubt that theists truly believe?
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@zedvictor4
So your assertion is that everyone who believes in deities is merely pretending to believe in them?
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@Tradesecret
Is the bible pornographic? Well I suppose it depends upon what we mean by pornographic. Certainly some of the pictures described present pictures that contain sexual content, exploitation, nudity etc. But are they pornographic or not?"Pornography is the depiction of sexual behavior that is intended to arouse sexual excitement in its audience." Pornography legal definition of Pornography (thefreedictionary.com)Hence, the question has to be asked - Are the writers of the Bible using this language as a means of intending to arouse sexual excitement?
Your rounded thighs are like jewels,
the work of a master hand.
Your navel is a rounded bowl
that never lacks mixed wine.
Your belly is a heap of wheat,
encircled with lilies.
Your two breasts are like two fawns,
twins of a gazelle.
Your neck is like an ivory tower.
Your eyes are pools in Heshbon,
by the gate of Bath-rabbim...
How beautiful and pleasant you are,
O loved one, with all your delights!
Your stature is like a palm tree,
and your breasts are like its clusters.
I say I will climb the palm tree
and lay hold of its fruit.
Oh may your breasts be like clusters of the vine,
and the scent of your breath like apples,
and your mouth like the best wine.
-- Song of Solomon
I would say the Song of Songs is about nothing but romantic and sexual excitement.
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@thett3
I thought that was probably it. It was a revelation to me as well, definitely changed things for me. I still think he should have left the illegally possessed AR-15 behind and just brought the fire extinguisher and the medkit. To that extent I agree with 2020 thett. Sorry, 2021 thett.
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@thett3
But what about moral culpability? He shouldn't have been there that night and was looking for trouble... So he bears some moral responsibility. Its like if someone goes on a safari and messes wit the lions then has to shoot one. Yes it's self defense but ya shouldn't have been messin wit da lions to begin witDon’t agree at all. There shouldn’t have been a riot for him to go to to begin with. You should probably familiarize yourself with the case before posting, it’s been demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that the reason his initial attacker (Rosenbaum) went after him is because he was putting out a fire. Putting out fires and rendering medical aid is “looking for trouble?” Does someone “looking for trouble” flee upon the first sign of confrontation and only fire after being cornered?Your position is the abrogation of citizenship itself. Every role must be bureaucratized and there is no right for the citizenry to put out fires or render medical aid to people attacked by rioters because the police and fire departments have abandoned their posts. This is “looking for trouble”
I thought you said Rittenhouse's actions were "not to be emulated" and "when trouble comes, don't be there"? What changed for you since last year?
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@Wylted
Can't find it in #mainchat rn. Must be buried somewhere under all of Wylted's antisemitism.I don't think that blanket label does much to actually combat antisemitism. It is certainly over used by some people to apply to anything.
That wasn't an effort to combat anything. It was just an observation of reality. I wouldn't try to combat your antisemitism since antisemitism isn't the underlying issue. You're just a shape-shifting provocateur who likes hurling taboos around because you're a human extremophile. I still love ya, though.
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@Ramshutu
Can't find it in #mainchat rn. Must be buried somewhere under all of Wylted's antisemitism.
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@janesix
I suppose this is where faith in a religious text or prophet comes in. Most major religions seem to need to believe they have the inside skinny on God from some authoritative source.Have none of these supposed sources ever been compelling to you?I havent read the Koran, or much of the Vedas or any other source yet.
So just the Bible? What was it about the Bible that was so unconvincing to you as an authoritative source, out of curiosity?
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@Ramshutu
this will make others not want to use this site because it isnt serious.AND most people here arent serious.its real bullshitThis is very, very, specifically and very very explicitly referring to something I had just-so-happened to have been talking to Wylted about.
Reeeeaaaaaally...
*strokes nonexistent beard*
Well, I am now waffling between the drleb camp and Wylted camp.
Was this talk in PMs or in a thread you can link me to?
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@janesix
was the world created with novelty (dna, changing astrological patterns etc) so teh creator wouldn't get bored?
Can the creator even become bored?
Boredom is an animal phenomenon. It could be an evolutionary adaptation that makes young animals (including young humans) explore and stimulate themselves, learn more about their environment -- in other words, one more thing we evolved to help keep us alive. But the creator doesn't need to worry about keeping alive, supposedly, and he definitely isn't supposed to have evolved.
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He said that it would be before the apostolic generation had died off, and I tend to take that as a more historically reliable quote. As time passed and that generation did begin to die off, his followers began to reinterpret his messages, and we begin to see epistles like 2 Peter, which are obviously trying to reassure followers about a delayed Second Coming.
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I counter-vote that we make the gaming section bigger.
I also vote we change the site name to seriousgameart.
Also, it is obviously drlebronski.
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@BigPimpDaddy
wat did bush do?
I mean I was pretty young back then, but I think he invaded Afghanistan.
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@Vader
Okay somehow my reply got deleted. Repost:
By the way, haven't seen you in a while. How's things been?
Eh, not great. Spent five hours on Friday night trying to get my grandma into the ER and ended up having to take her home untreated because there were no beds.
My activity on DART has just never been the same since the bish thing, I guess. I never really forgave this place for overreacting to that incident so badly that bish couldn't even stay on as a regular. Him stepping down as mod, that I can understand. I think he was reaching the burn-out point anyway. But them making it so bad that we lost him entirely? That made me fucking furious. I mean, this was the guy who didn't even want a moderation log because he thought it would be a "wall of shame" and make banned people feel bad. He didn't want anyone to feel ostracized by the community. The irony.
Speaking of burn-out point. If and when you reach yours, put your mental health first. This place is hard on its mods, even though as far as I can tell they always do their best.
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@janesix
The Southern Cross has spiritual or mythic significance in a number of cultures. For example:
The Maori name for the Southern Cross is Māhutonga and it is thought of as the anchor (Te Punga) of Tama-rereti's waka (the Milky Way), while the Pointers are its rope.
As for its visibility from the north, it can be seen from tropical latitudes of the northern hemisphere a few hours every night during winter and spring.
The Cross was once much more visible from the northern hemisphere; the ancient Greeks wrote about it. Precession changed all that by 400 BC, which perhaps explains why the constellation does not have more significance in Christianity.
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@janesix
You cant know even from analyzing the creation, because we have no idea why things were created.I suppose some people could have superior knowledge to mine, yet you have no idea if your knowledge is truly correct. How could you?
I suppose this is where faith in a religious text or prophet comes in. Most major religions seem to need to believe they have the inside skinny on God from some authoritative source.
Have none of these supposed sources ever been compelling to you?
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@Lunatic
To be clear I thought the allegations against bsh1 for pedophilia were pretty dumb as well, but I bet most the mods here took bsh's side on that one too lol.
You would lose that bet. Virt sided with the pedo-accusers, leading me to refuse to become his deputy moderator when asked, and the rest of the site authorities pretty much stayed silent as bish went down in flames, as I recall. I was the only staff member I saw publicly taking bish's side, and I was only a part-time special moderator. He worked hard for this site for over a year, enduring hate and toxicity from pretty much every corner, and his reward was to be burned at the stake over one regrettable joke. I was really hoping he would have come back as a regular poster by now -- he would be such a great contributor -- but alas, it seems the damage done was total.
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@Ramshutu
That is always a risk in a more laissez-faire system.
Make a special subforum with relaxed rules. A rough 'n' rowdy subforum. People can go there if they want to talk/debate with fewer restrictions, without it threatening the health and order of the rest of the site. Seen it work on other message boards.
I’ve more of an issue with Wylted; I flit between thinking he’s intentionally trolling, or has wider and broader issues that were all far too underqualified to deal with
Well, the two are not mutually exclusive.
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@RationalMadman
I fear this place will just use up mod after mod until it becomes an unmoderated ghost town like DDO.
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@RationalMadman
I did notice Wylted was dishing out fewer personal attacks than I remember. I don't have any experience with Mesmer AKA MgWhateverDemon, but his/her ban seems to be in keeping with the current rules as I read them.
I would prefer we go back to bish's way, but the cost of doing that is that people get to spout discriminatory bullshit and get away with it unless they cross over into attacking a user personally. Not everyone is okay with that, which I understand. Personally, I prefer the freedom to discuss extreme views and hot button topics.
I would like to see whiteflame incorporate more staggered, active punishment such as bans specifically from thread creation without banning posts or bans specifically from forum posting without banning debates.These seem to not be friendly technologically for Michael to enforce but the enforcement can be a temporary ban from the website if the person disobeys the 'mute'.
So kind of like how restraining orders work? Sounds like it would be a handy option for a mod to have in their toolkit.
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Well, I'm way out of date then. Back when bish was head mod we only punished racist or discriminatory speech directed against users -- not against classes or races in general.
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So head mod on DART is like the Defense Against the Dark Arts job at Hogwarts.
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@Wylted
who we always unite against. Our own
Are you telling me you would rather fight each other than us godless heathens? Wylted, Wylted, you're talkin' crazy. Think about what you're giving up! The contemptuous attitude, the scoffing, the pomposity -- are we not ideal adversaries? How could you replace us? Fight Mormons? They will never do for you what we do for you. You can fight other theists... but deep down, you'll be thinking about us.
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@FLRW
When they banned you this place was like South Park without Cartman.OMG, is Wylted's first name Kenny?
Do you mean Eric? Although I guess Wylted did have a Kenny-like tendency to get banned and then come back.
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@Wylted
You got it, buddy. I'll respect your authori-tah and just observe. But if I may -- without atheists, who will the theists unite against?
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@Wylted
Well, I was sort of joking, but obviously representation of women in the Bible is not five stars. It was written thousands of years ago.Representation is a stupid concept. The only black mentioned in the Bible is Cain, and the only white is Caesar.Yet women were heroes in many bi le stories. We have the redeemed prostitute that let the jews into her window so they could conquer an enemy city that was surrounded by walls. I'm not going to mention all of them, because the names are lost to me at the moment and it would require Google.They are there though. The first story, eve played a major part in. She was Adam's companion and equal in every way. She is made superior to him after the "fall of man", because she his made his servant.Jesus constantly brought up that there is nothing greater than serving. Those who serve will be highest in heaven.Proverbs talks a lot about how a man cannot be successful, unless he has the support of a good woman.The o ly negative shit you can say about women in the Bible is that they are supposed to serve man, and it isn't even a negative. Did you see man's punishment? It isn't to serve the person you love, which is actually awesome and something men feel inclined and love to do, but it is to live off of your blood and sweat. He is sentenced to a life of hard manual labor. This was a Jewish man. You know how much jews hate manual labor.
When they banned you this place was like South Park without Cartman.
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@BrotherDThomas
Well, I was sort of joking, but obviously representation of women in the Bible is not five stars. It was written thousands of years ago.
“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp the authority over the man, but to be in silence.” (Timothy 2:12)
Paul did not write Timothy; it's pseudepigrapha.
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Because even gods fear a mother's wrath, obviously. And well they should.
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@Greyparrot
Does this imply God has a butt?
Kanye had to come from somewhere.
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@TheMorningsStar
Why do you use this definition of atheist (the Flew definition)? It is a definition rejected by essentially all academics in the Philosophy of Religion, yet it is common to find laypeople on the internet use this definition of atheist. Within academia the definition of atheist is "one who believes there are no gods", yet so often when this definition is mentioned online it seems 'atheists' almost take offense to it and get defensive of the 'lack of belief' definition.Why is this? Why hold onto a definition that is rejected by academics? Especially those here, on a website designed for debating? Why not use the definitions used in academia?
Because they don't want to define atheism as a belief.
I find it is also common for online atheists to be Christ mythicists, even though the mythicist position is rejected by most academics in the field. Nothing says atheists must be in step with all things academia.
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@Stephen
Sure, I'm curious. 👍 I was going off of Wikipedia's etymology for it, but it's not like they've never been wrong before.
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@TheMorningsStar
Ha, I totally had never heard this before. Very entertaining read.
If one is willing to accept argument from religious experience as valid evidence, then I would say it does favor the existence of multiple gods over the existence of one god.
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@aaaa
Is it ever talked about in the Bible?
I'm not aware of any place where it's explicitly explained. The most common answer I hear from Christians is probably "God wants us to worship him because it's good for us." I'm also not aware of where the Bible explicitly says this. I take it to be extrabiblical interpretation on their part. Perhaps someone will educate me on which passages this comes from.
The impression I get from the Bible is that God simply deserves worship because he is that great, that glorious, and that powerful -- that his very existence compels and demands worship in the same way that the very existence of a black hole bends the fabric of space-time. I believe we get our word "worship" from an older word that meant something like "worthship." In the Bible, God is simply worth it, knows it, and considers worship his due.
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I would say that while the Bible clearly does say in places that faith gets you into heaven and not actions, it just as clearly enforces a stick/carrot morality system in other places.
Matthew teaches that your works are the key to eternal reward:
- “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ -- Matthew 25:31-36
- Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” -- Matthew 19:16-19
Paul taught that you are saved by faith alone and not works:
- For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. -- Romans 3:28
- For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. -- Ephesians 2:8-9
Yet Paul also emphasized that your good deeds and actions will be central to eternal reward:
- God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. -- Romans 2:6-7
And of course James is big on works, questioning whether faith without good deeds can gain you salvation:
- What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? -- James 2:14
- You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. -- James 2:24
- As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. -- James 2:26
I could go on. Needless to say, all of this has given scholars, believers, and theologians plenty of mental exercise over the years.
I think stick/carrot morality is a more primitive morality, personally -- the ideal is that we do good things because it's the right thing to do and because we care about the world and about others. And for whatever it's worth, the Bible also says that you shouldn't do good deeds just to be seen doing good deeds, and emphasizes sincerity and purity of motive. It covers both bases, I think.
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@RationalMadman
Well that is probably not true either. Jesus had women followers that he seemed to love above the men in his outfit or so the men believed. And the bible states that Jesus and other the male followers of his, lived off and sponged off the women of substance in his circle.Which female followers were believed to be loved above the men in his outfit?
In the Gospel of Philip, Jesus loves Mary Magdalene more than anyone else, and the disciples ask Jesus, "Why do you love her more than us?"
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@PGA2.0
It appears I am very late to our discussion about whether the Gospels are eyewitness accounts. Maybe I'll start a new thread to address your post, if that's agreeable to you -- and if I have the time and energy to elucidate my thoughts. Which is always perilously uncertain. Especially when my DVR is full and I've just bought new books.
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