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@Outplayz
I use this site a lot more than my FB account. I don't think i even remember the password. I've always valued online friends more than any real friend i've had. It's a bunch of idiots on FB so i tend to stay away from that platform lol.
LOL oh okay. I like this communication, I only suggested FB because TBH I hate not knowing who or what I'm talking to, especially someone like you who I like. FB is silly but I have all my life on there pretty much, pics ect ect...I like FB cause I can see whom I am addressing. I like to know people more personal but it's cool.
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@Mopac
The rituals and outward forms are not what the faith is about. To the religious leaders that Jesus spoke against, this is all it was about.
I've been reading the Gospels since I was a young man on my own accord. I don't need to be told the contents. All you have to do is ask.
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@Mopac
"And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all."And there are actually many instances where the scenes depicted in the Gospels actually take place in synagogues. In fact, there is a scene not much later in Luke where Jesus reads from the scroll of Isaiah in a synagogue!Jesus and his disciples were all observant Jews.
Seriously, that is all you got to support religious authoritarian fabrications?
When you read the Gospels first of all, Jesus went into synagogues to study scripture as a young man, and as a matter of fact it says he was teaching there as well. He was not there to appease religious authorities and kiss their butts and follow their programs, He was there because there was something he was interested in and it had nothing to with religious systems. As soon as Jesus went into his ministry he went out into the people and left that garbage behind, he didn't go join the Hierarchy of religious authority he did the opposite. Jesus never set up a religious institution he went where the ordinary people were and hung out with them and taught them with power and love. There was no religious authority there claiming who could do this and who could do that and who is appointed to this and that through
"their clubs" other than the Master. Guess what? he was killed by the religious authorities because Jesus did not subjugate himself to that and was taunted and eventually murdered. Basically TBPH Jesus was murdered for the same message Hindus teach. Isn't that interesting? was Jesus more of a guru than some religious snob authority figure? I think so.
The gifts of the spirit as well as the offices of the "church" ( the people!) were and are to develop some order amongst the people. These are reserved for those more mature and who have committed themselves and are able to lead by example....but it is the people who ordain them not some religious authority who only is in that position because of some "tradition". You defy Jesus Himself believing all that tripe religious baloney organizations set up, then turn around and divide themselves from other believers. The whole thing is a mess from start to finish. If people would just grow up, take on the settings of the Gospels and go out non-judgemental and show love to the common people and stop being a proud arrogant religious snobs Jesus might not be hated so much and honestly could probably change the world. Who could hate the Man in the Gospels? he actually cared about the people the religious snobs rejected because they think everyone is a heretic and they cast them to the dogs. Disgusting really, show me where in the Gospels of any of Jesus' settings of fellowship where it looks like anything you see in mainstream institutions. No not at all, the Gospels paint a much different picture don't they Mopac? bricks that makes church building for certain religious groups is not at all what church is in the Gospels and there is no religious sect that gets to claim dibs on the Gospels. I've been applying them on my own accord since I was young. They are as much mine as anyone's. You don't get to claim them and neither does any religion get to claim them. They are the individuals, not organizations.
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@Mopac
Yes, this is a common protestant/secularist viewpoint that I even bought into for a while but there actually is a Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church, and it is The Orthodox Church.
Yeah I don't bow down to religion, only the Creator so no institution defines or controls my output and experiences. I know what you are and what you believe. Secularist is laughable though, that is so far from my paradigm it's not even funny.
The church has priests and bishops. Not only can this be seen in the new testament, but the earliest writings of the church make it very clear that this was always the case.
The mistake that has been made is to believe that a Priest or a Bishop must exist within the confines of some religious sect. No, the offices and order of the "church" is for the people, not religious groups. How do you know I'm not one of those? because I have not been ordained by some religious authority lol? nah I used to think like you do now but that day is long gone.
And the anarchy of protestantism is where that type of thinking leads. I will take the church founded by the apostles over the churches of heretics who are only truly united in their opposition to Orthodoxy. For us to say, hold an ecumenical council with heretics would be absolutely unheard of and could only serve to compromise the integrity of our church which has carried The Truth for thousands of years faithfully even to this day.
Maybe you are anarchy, not me. Ever thought about that? I know you believe I'm some heretic, blah blah try something new and stop judging people if they don't squeeze into your mold. I don't care what religious institutions do but I don't like being labeled a heretic by heretics.
We do not share the same faith.
Obviously, so what?
If these protestants really cared about unity, they would join the historic church that they are two steps detached from! Indeed, many do. There are at least 3 former pastors at my parish who lead churches for over 20 years. They came to Orthodoxy because all the evidence points to it as being the true historic church. That is what lead me there!
If you want to know what unity is described as in the scriptures go read the NT, it has nothing to do with organizations. This has always been about the people, and why Jesus went out into the midst of them and showed why religious authoritarian institutions are in contrast to true spirituality and that they are corrupt or can be corrupt. I'm not personally against anything in particular but I will argue and contend when you are off the mark.
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@keithprosser
um, I think you are all being extremely silly. Consciousness disappears if a few micrograms of anaesthetic gets into its gears; do you seriously contend consciousness can survive the brain rotting into smelly mush?
Lol, absolutely, what you see in the physical world or the changes and decomposing of material forms is irrelevant to consciousness period. Did you really believe that your little mushy sack of brain creates your being? come on mon, give it more thought or ask questions for Gods sake. The brain is nothing more than a component, it confines your experience to this body.
I - what ever 'I' refers to - came into existence at my birth, I will cease to exist on my death. I will experience no more of the future than I have of the billions of years of the past. Non-existence is strange to contemplate - certainly it's unsettlng. We've evolved to fear death because that fear helps keeps us alive. But that doesn't men death isn't inevitable and final.
Wrong and TBH I'm sick of being told spirituality is based on fear sorry but that assertion ain't gonna fly any more. Non-existence is easier to swallow than life after death. Complete death of consciousness is comforting to a degree, because you don't have to evaluate all the implications involved so don't be such a doubter all the time. Ask me questions...ASK me what I'm afraid of don't tell me, think you can handle that?
But if you want to believe there is afterlife, by all means do so. You will not know you are wrong, and if you are right you have an existence longer than the life of the universe to look forward to, as Pascal pointed out. Try not to get too bored because there's no way out. Death is preferable to infinity.
Did you think what I know is based on beliefs and not experience? that sounds like yet another assertion because I don't have to "believe". Consciousness is never destroyed, only bodies are. Eternity is something that is a reality and nothing anyone can change it's the nature of the game. In other words it doesn't matter whether or not I like it. But God does Its best with what can be done in creation to make it worth while and perceptions that make us believe we are just temporal developments of nature. Not so son, but it does help those like you to cope with an eternal reality. I have been pondering it quite awhile so I'm used to the dynamics and realty of it. Hiding behind things is not what is going to help matters or spiritual progression. It is best to think about it, consider it and then deal with it and more importantly experience it.
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@Outplayz
Lol yeah it would be, especially since we have a lot in common. We should hook up on FB or somethin. The strong hand moderation didn't bother me much for two main reasons, one I'm not really some trouble maker so strong mod doesn't effect my participation here and two I thought it would be a really great way to raise the bar for the future of the forum. Kind of setting the example early before it gets much larger in numbers and even with that the place is still out of control lol, especially in the religious section of course.
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@Outplayz
What's strange is that there wasn't really a color I couldn't grasp and even understand, while some irritated me mainly red and orange I never felt like I was capped off. The unity, oneness and embracing the individuality and well being of people in tier 2 resonate most with me like I said above so that is why I might go ahead and watch that last video or color, did you watch passed turquoise? I'll watch and get back to you about it here. The guy hosting the videos is pretty quick guy, maybe I'll check out some of his other vids too.
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@Outplayz
Okay, so I was going to watch the video later today but last night I couldn't sleep so I got up and gave it a go. I took notes as I watched it and jotted down the colors and descriptions so I could follow along and here is what I got. First of all you're a pretty good judge of character, you got me nailed down just about. Turquoise was the only color I felt most at ease with believe it or not. I don't think there was a single thing said in this color I couldn't relate too. I don't really consider myself some leader nor do I want to be but man, the three major things within this color that scream myself are obviously the elevating the consciousness of mankind to higher levels, offering alternative healing through legit methods holistic based and putting priority on true spirituality in a real way and applicable way. Those seem to be the main theme that runs through.
Definitely I'm some in yellow or have been through it, I couldn't help actually to feel like not only did I feel the most comfortable with turquoise I felt like I coulda pushed the envelop a little further. I went ahead and watched the separate turquoise video and I know he mentioned there in fact may be one more color I believe he called "coral" but I stopped watching after turquoise.
Some of the descriptions in yellow for sure fit like taking on multiple perspectives, solving complex problems in a systematic way, self-honesty and just being open minded to everyone in general. However it still felt a little snug, turquoise I didn't feel like it was missing something but I did feel like I was interested in the next color because nothing in tier 2 bothered me or seem stupid. I have some shadows in blue and green, orange for some reason irritated me. The funny part is orange PEOPLE I have no problems with but the actual ideology of orange I can't stand maybe because that ideology thinks there is no color above it. I despise pretentious and shallow world views and attitudes. In general though I have no problems with science or promoting a better economy and such...but I know life goes so much further than that level of thinking.
I can tell you right now that I was probably born into the blue color for whatever reason but certainly some green too. I would say I've spent at least half my life in the blue zone because I already had a level of spirituality even as a little kid and so I began to see a very black and white picture of the world and I was very serious and passionate about it, like I am now but man I've come a long way from that point. Over the decade I've probably grown more consciously speaking more than I ever had. So it is possible I soared through those other colors where I am now. Like I said, all the colors for me in tier 1 feel way too snug, so you were right I think I'm in at least 2. Anybody that really knows me and listens to turquoise would probably agree lol, I mean that is all the stuff I talk about all the time...consciousness, spirituality and healing of the body, mind and emotions. When I was a kid and teen my friends would follow me around like I was their leader but I was so charismatic I didn't really care about leading or controlling people. I've always like peoples individuality and I believe that helped me get through the blue barrier and upwards. Right now my passion seems to be mostly interested in raising people awareness and understanding consciousness and what that really means to them. I also love to use holistic and dietary alternative ways for people to self medicate, the sad part is it's not an alternative it's more effective and does not hurt the individual in any ways. Interesting stuff though.
That's all I got really but it was fun thanks for the read.
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@Outplayz
Okay I'll check it out.
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Oh i agree there is duality. We are dual type beings in order to experience. I mean, scientifically ... looking all the way down to atoms, it all seems as one. Which would make sense or be a tad bit of evidence pointing towards the source. Since it should all in one way correlate to being one if we are all from one consciousness.
Yeah bingo.
Remember, i have even taken that duality to the source. I believe although we all become one, we individualize from that state towards duality again in order to manifest as an individual experiencing being in some other reality or this reality again. I believe the platform should look non-dual... but everything having to do with our experience should also look dual due to us individualizing within the source.
Amen mon...
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@keithprosser
I have thought about it. Life is good, but it ends and that really, really sucks. I'm peed off I won't see how global warming works out or see humans on Mars (probably - I'm getting on a bit) but I might have been a 15th century peasant so it could have been a lot worse!
Too bad you've given up for no real reason. Why? who told you this is what your end is? why do you assert that?
The world seems ok without Steve Jobs and David Bowie, so it won't miss me.
This is one life, one body and one experience. Those souls who inhabited those bodies only lost their physical forms. As you, will exit this body and continue your experience so has everyone else. Your individual journey is loooong….brace yourself :)
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@keithprosser
You know exactly what I meant. You are here to stay, there ain't no disappearing. Like I said you might as well start thinking about it now.
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@janesix
I'm very impressed Jane, I don't know who this is really yet but the way she writes and illustrates is incredible. It's weird how much it reminds me of many things I wish to communicate and do in some ways. Man, if people only knew how incredibly dynamic the Creator is and how many experiences the soul can have that most people are unaware of. That's what I love about God and spirituality, there is so much we don't even know yet, we're still wallowing around in the lower parts of creation with no clue how expansive our experiences could be. Each one of you is the key, remember that!
I keep bringing up the progression of the souls journey, all you people are in for a long, long journey. You ain't going nowhere when your physical body gives up. You might as well start thinking about it now.
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@Outplayz
I agree but all i'm really saying is that this world, even materialistically seems non-dual. Everything else you said i agree with.
But we have two distinct realities at play though, how can you deny duality in creation when that is all we see and observe?? duality means contrast, separation, opposing forces.. two things repelling each other ect ect...However when I'm referring to duality I'm referring to forms in creation. I do agree though that duality is only experienced at one level and at one level duality is but an illusion. But even if I agree it's an illusion it's still part of OUR reality even though at one level we are all connected. That is why I support both, in creation we obviously have duality other wise nothing would exist, but in higher consciousness there is no duality.
The only reason I suggest this original Source is not a thing but a being, is because you can't have the quality of being conscious at this level without it being an entity. Only intelligent entities can create and produce other living realities. If this consciousness is aware, I don't see why it's a problem to admit it's some form of a being. The problem maybe, is that we associate beings or personalities with forms or embodiments but look at it this way....pretend you as a soul left the physical body, you don't vanish or disappear just because you have no form, you are still what you were before you had any body. Same with the Creator, just because it has no embodiment it does not follow that it has no being or personality that is why I insist of relating God as a Being not some thing.
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@Mopac
Jesus is not a created being.
Wow, all incarnations are created beings, that is what Jesus was and how Jesus was able to incarnate into an embodiment...an incarnation of God in the flesh as all beings are it is the Source they are individualized from which has not been created. When Jesus leaves that embodiment He returns to the Father, this is true of all expressions in creation. Jesus always pointed to the "Father" out of which everything has manifested and was sent into these lower worlds to redeem man and his corrupt systems and this is possible through an incarnation....a created being taking on an embodiment. It's hilarious Jesus can claim he was one with the Creator as we all are, but when some Guru or Swami says it they are some evil heretic. Get real dude.
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@Outplayz
I'd be willing to switch out the term God for Creator, what do you think? The term God doesn't really bother me because I really have no straw man attached to the name. When I say "God" I'm not referring to any belief system or religion. I'm referring to the Creator, as we call it the first Source.
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@Outplayz
I don't think energy can exist without matter. They are both working together and a property of each other's existence.
Umm, I don't think so. I think it's safe to say energy before matter. Of course matter depends on energy but not the other way around......it's energy that is never created or destroyed but matter is formed through energy. My theory would make sense if consciousness is eternal and conscious activity produces energy they exist simultaneously. But the manipulation of energy and elements are what forms the universe. The amount of energy generated from an omnipresent reality is unreal...the Big bang would be like a fireworks show compared to it. So it was nothing for this sonic blast to take place within the universe bonding chemistry and creating elements. But before the bang of course was that static, fixed state of consciousness and God does this over and over learning and experiencing each time. Pretty darn cool.
Have you studied non-duality? For a lot of your ideas fit in such a platform that's taught in most eastern philosophies. But it also makes sense even if we look at it as an atheist. Everything is one.
Of course, non-dual Vedanta is one of my favorite interests and a teacher I admire very much teaches from this source.
The atheist thing I cant really get with, don't get me wrong I know what you mean but either way atheism seems to me to be more of a materialistic worldview. I know people claim there are schools of Buddhism that is atheist but that is baloney, if there is a reality outside this one then there is no atheism, period IMO. I'd be willing to argue about it but it seems silly to me to have any form of real spirituality and claim atheism, it's like an oxymoron. Spirituality, including any form of it means to observe from or recognize a transcendent objective reality beyond the physical sense experience and that means the concept of the soul is always intact and the soul belongs in the Theistic category not atheism. We've argued about it before and I get it, I just don't agree with it, if there is an overarching Reality to creation then it's safe to go ahead and call that God, which just means it's the original Source of all creation we don't have to assign any religion to that.
There is no proof where i end and a table begins. It's only awareness and ego that observes duality. Therefore, it is likely all of this is the source. Energy being the way the source creates. But all of it is one and all of it is eternal. That's why energy can never die, it is the tool that moves matter in accordance with the sources manifestations. Therefore, it is an eternal tool of the source. Quite possibly, energy and matter were created at the same time by the source, that's one possibility. Or, it's just all existed with the source. Very hard to pin point this since we are talking about before the big bang type stuff.
Agree with all of that except the "matter" part, I believe both energy and conscious activity came before and will always be...remember the Big bang took place to create an atmosphere of changing chemistry and movement. This in and of itself transformed the very atmosphere into a giant molding pot that the Creator can basically form whatever It wishes. It just takes a long, long time.
Duality is only experienced in the created worlds I agree, and of course that would mean just like you said, when you pull into the original Source there is no duality it's just a singular unit. We agree a lot really and we always have. Sorry I must have missed this post!
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@IlDiavolo
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Let's not forget the real Jesus of the Gospels was not some pew warmer, quite literally his opposition WAS religious people and the religious establishment. Jesus was raised a Jew and was faithful to his heritage but at the same time he came to change all of that and certainly singlehandedly resurfaced the face of religion.
The "church" was never at any point some religious sect or institution, it was always the people themselves. Let us not get things twisted. The Epistles do say not to forsake the assembly but that has nothing to do with putting ones trust in any organization. The Gospels are about application to help get the individual connected to the Divine, the spiritual aspect of themselves. On a collective level we should also be involved with one another, but again this reference of the church is the people, us, you and all of us as individuals. WE are what make the church, not the other way around. For whatever reason people have been fixated on dividing themselves from other believers, that is not what the teachings of the Gospels or the Epistles call for, rather unity is strictly what the orders of the people are....or what we should be striving for.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Lol, this was from a Swami. But there is a lot of reference in the Bible about light, the light of the soul and the light of God...does this have to be in the Bible though?
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@janesix
I heard a cool analogy about the earth, moon and sun in the nightly hours in relation to our conscious experience, silly but true nonetheless. The light of the sun being our awareness that illuminates the moon which would be the mind which reflects light and manifests in our earthly physical experience. The soul (consciousness) is not the earth (physical body/perception), nor the moon (activity of the mind), rather it is the sun which illuminates both. Consciousness is the light that animates and illuminates both the mind and body, the light was never produced by neither, it stands alone and exists independently even when the earth and moon no longer exist.
The interesting thing is that our true nature, that being the soul is actually more like light than any form or object. Consciousness has no form until it takes on form through embodiment...it is it's own source of illumination of what we perceive and experience. The soul is much like light or the sun, conscious awareness is whatever you direct your light to, whatever you cast light on is your experience. Consciousness is our observation point, it shines through the mind and body but is not dependent on them.
Happy Perihelion!
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@linate
Yeah I wasn't arguing for either proposition, mainly just wanted to point out that spiritual texts often use stories to convey messages, I would argue that the story of Job is one of those occasions. The works of the OT has a pervasive sort of repetitive message. Which has to do with being willing to obey God and not get crazy when hard times come, be diligent in our actions and beliefs, discard evil in favor of good ect ect...basically having this sort of sacrificial attitude for the Creator which is cool at one level. But I don't argue for the perfection of the Bible that is absurd. So in return my beliefs are not dictated by human errors.
In the case with Noah's arc I'm still open to it. I've heard both sides of the equation and have yet to decide. The important part, is that either way it has nothing to do with the individuals spiritual advancements. It's almost irrelevant either way.
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@janesix
Yeah I love that source. One of my favorite spiritual sources.
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@janesix
If Jesus is real, I certainly want to know and believe.
It's all about application not religion. What Jesus teaches is to be applied, they are spiritual based principles and just apply whatever you think is applicable. That is better than anything an institution can bring to the table. This is not about beliefs but application. If being involved in a collective way is something you desire then that's fine too, just depends what you are looking for. But fellowship is fellowship, application is another thing. When all the chips fall, all that matters is what you did, not what you believed. Just put your heart into your quest and apply things to yourself. Jesus is very simple in what he teaches, it's easy to see when he is instructing you to apply something.
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@janesix
The mind and mental layer is difficult to control as well, especially when under fire.
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@janesix
First recognize it when you see it, feel it. Like looking at your thoughts within your mind. The mind is what you are observing, you are what illuminates what takes place within the mind as well as the emotional body. You want to stay balanced, frustration comes when you keep repeating the same cycles and they become fixed. You want to constantly evaluate what you are doing in your reactions to experiences.
The emotional body is very tricky because now your dealing with feelings not only thoughts. Feelings and the emotions solidify patterns within yourself and so be careful of what patterns exist within you.
It is simple to see when the emotional layer kicks in, just be watching and don't let it dictate your circumstances.
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@janesix
I do feel that God wants us to improve ourselves. I don't believe though that we are just God in disguise, playing hide and seek with ourselves. I think we are seperate beings.
Once you understand the nature of consciousness which is much like energy, then you cannot deny that what you are made of is identical with the Creator. However, the individual soul gets to become whatever it wants. Basically the individual soul becomes its own creator and even though you and God are essentially one, your personality will become its own thing through experience which is where perceptions come from. As long as you maintain your bodies in creation you will always be you, you are learning from your own experiences and you actually never lose that. those experiences remain with you on a conscious level whatever form you are observing through.
I have never had an experience where I felt one with the universe,or connected to everything. I did have the experience where God wanted me to look at my behavior, so I know He is concerned with that. God has spoken to me in the past, I am waiting for Him to speak to me again.
Remember what I keep saying about the layers that cover the soul. I keep bringing that up because you ARE connected with God at one level, of course that being the highest level. Your lower bodies are what make you feel separate from God and they are in a sense. But your core is not separate from God. Your experiences will not always be the same, so make sure you don't let that control what you allow yourself think and believe.
Have you read any Alan Watts or Stanislav Grof? Might be interesting to your views.
Not yet, anything in particular you would like me to look at?
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@janesix
How do you determine what is true,and what can be discarded?
Many ways but part of it will be determined based on your own experiences. The things you have yet to actually walk through yourself there are a few ways.... commonsense/logic, cross referencing and being open-minded and flexible. Being open-minded might sound kinda vague but what it means is you're not going to just push away information just because it's outside your own experience as well as sounding unusual. This will allow yourself to collect more information and consider things that you may at first reject giving you more of a database to pull from. Even in complexity there can be simplicity because even if something is dynamic it still can be reasonable, simple and logical to comprehend.
If something sounds off to you, or it doesn't follow in one way or another in logic and or commonsense then it's not like you have to embrace it, you are allowed to discard ideas if they seem wacked out to you because it may not be true just make sure you aren't being closed minded because certainly there are things we need to learn that may sound strange at first. Spirituality makes sense and is very logical and objective despite it being incredibly dynamic, as well the experiences people can have are many because as I pointed out souls can experience many collective realities outside this one. So just because there is a variety does not mean everything is false.
As you cultivate your spiritual nature you will experience more things, but your own spirituality progresses at your own speed and will not exceed that of course. So being stubborn or angry about life slow the process down to a screeching halt. Your disposition and the way you approach spirituality in attitude is very important to control.
As you have several layers/bodies, you have all of them to contend with including the mind and emotions. Your strength in the created worlds will be your survival which is why you want to get strong in yourself and not afraid to be alone or without someone. You cannot leave this planet and enter higher realms with weak mind and emotional body that cannot be controlled. This is why so much turmoil here, it's meant for the lower worlds, since those weaknesses can destroy and bring down a society those that are too focused on the physical world and carnality cannot progress.
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@janesix
...ouch lol. I'll start with individual.
This is simple because remember at one level you are already doing what it is that God AND you desire and want. This however, does not mean your experiences will be perfect, not at all. Because the main thing you want to look at is the only thing God could really want from you is for you to improve yourself. This could mean many things, as improving ourselves is a continual cultivation and our experiences we go through help to establish this. As a teeny expression of God, you are here to learn about this part of yourself and since at a spiritual level we will always be "alone" this is why it is you that are the key, learning about who you are and what it is you want out of creation.
Since you won't be hearing any voices of course, you will be relying on your own self-evaluation. The objective part of this through spirituality, is that there is plenty of objective information that could help you contrast your own experience with what is more accurate or what you should be aiming for. And of course there are many ways of obtaining this.
One way of knowing what it is we need to improve is obvious and connected to Karma. When you begin to see faulty, cyclical patterns and repetitious destructive behavior these are the things that define our strength in circumstances and the aspects you want to look at about yourself. Basically since you are the one driving the car, you are the one that knows yourself best. The fun part, is that there is much to learn that you don't know, even about yourself but as you cultivate these things will unfold for you.
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Are there many pieces missing in any one particular religion? yes sure, but as a whole the puzzle becomes much more clear.
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@janesix
When you look at religion and spirituality collectively remember it's mans attempt at interpreting and harnessing the reality of God and the Divine, some things are accurate and others not so much but many path of spirituality contain pieces of the truth. One thing people might not be aware of is that there are collective societies outside this planet. Much like what you see on Earth is also like in the spiritual or higher realms, there are still different places, planets, people, creatures and societies. God is much more dynamic then anyone could ever imagine, the problem with that is people tend to limit God way too much.
It's better to be flexible when approaching spirituality as a whole, get rid of this idea that only one religion has the answers. That is not how this works. Religion is the INTERPRETATION, of many people, saints and through many factors. This is why I examine all of spirituality and objectively look at what could be learned, what is true and what can be discarded.
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@janesix
Collectively or individually? one answer is easy the other not so much. The dynamics change drastically depending on which one.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Haha imagine that, "soul" in a religious forum ;p
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@janesix
Almost, consciousness is as far back to the wall as you can get, this is not observable from a material medium. Now, energy is present with that original conscious activity. In other words energy is the result of consciousness, not the other way around. The reason it can be said energy is not created, is because it wasn't, it is always present with conscious activity. It's more like an effect of conscious activity. Now, imagine that reality being omnipresent, the amount of generated energy from that reality is incredible.
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@janesix
The subtle layers that cover the soul exist at a much higher, finer rate of vibration and therefore the experiences that correlate with that are distinct. Also the lightness and far less density of the spirit bodies compared to the physical are able to exist virtually for ever.
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@janesix
I would assume since energy is basically some form of movement or activity, in this I would imagine a sort of temperature adjustment. Like as in kinetic energy, this energy is transferred at different states of awareness through varying speeds and vibrations. I think the "feeling" of energy has to do with that change in temperature adjustment. Obviously the greater the kinetic energy the greater the manifestation. In spiritual energy, which is still the same thing really, it's a higher rate output of energy and therefore probably more intense.
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@janesix
Well as I stated in my first post, I think energy is present with conscious activity and since consciousness is the original source I would say yes. First there would be energy present, then the process or manipulation of structured material.
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BTW Brutal, you can block me all you like but if you can't take it don't dish it out. If you respond like a meat head don't expect me to accept it. Act like an adult and there is no problems.
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It's always soo cute when the atheist pretends he is the arbiter of what reality is. Hilarious stuff.
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@janesix
Yes, like what we see in creation. Energy taking on forms to a means end or particular result, where we see them currently.
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@janesix
The first automata must have had only base instincts. Perhaps only the survival instinct. I can't imagine it having higher emotions such as love or guilt. These must have evolved much later. I can see it may have felt an instinctual fear of it's demise. at first. Then as it evolved and progressed, higher emotions evolved,and that's why we have them today. As an overarching consciousness, it may experience even higher emotions we can't even imagine.
As I wrote above, IMO I believe this is only true of material creation, the physical universe. But it is interesting. I like where you are going with all of this. So don't be offended if I give some feedback! Remember that God experiences both from the Ultimate Reality as well as through forms. So while what you're saying is true at one level, it does not apply to the other IMO. So at one level, what you are describing is true.
It must also be at a much higher level of consciousness than a human being. With everything in the universe connected, there must be many, many more connections than in the neural networks in our brain. The whole universe is like a giant brain. Although consciousness doesn't require a brain, higher intelligence might
Interesting again...It is my beliefs that the soul is covered in layers, these are known as subtle bodies or spirit bodies. You have a connection with every part of the created dimensions from pure consciousness all the way down to the outer physical layer.
If all this is true, then this ultimate consciousness must be much older than the age of the known universe, 13.7 billion years. It must have taken billions of years of evolution to get to the point of being able to create suns. This consciousness has been around for a long time indeed.I can't imagine being conscious for billions of years. What it must have gone through! Did it create us, other intelligent beings, to have someone to talk to? That seems a bit silly, but I wonder.
Since God exists in a complete state of aloneness I would have to assume what I would assume of myself. That God creates to experience something in a different state where duality and form exist. It is genius that the Creator pulled it off. I am also very confident this is not the first created universe and a matter of fact there are several layers to the created worlds.
But yes, I as stated the process of creating forms from a pure state of awareness takes quite awhile.
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@janesix
Well you know me and I find this fascinating of course and I do like your version better than Campbells. Right of the bat though I'll have to say I'm not convinced about the consciousness particles "popping in and out" proposal as being some evolution of consciousness or how it began, I understand its relevance to our physical universe (as in the process of creating forms) but not from a pure conscious perspective. For one it seems to contradict our own experience. Rather, I favor consciousness being more like a fixed state, there was no "beginning" or evolving into a greater consciousness.....it's just a fixed reality of conscious activity where it only "grows" from what It experiences through creating, it doesn't evolve in form or from another form, only forms in creation do IMO anyways.
There is a possibility there is some sort of evolution of types, as far as experience goes but there was never a time where It was not there or that It was a "lower" consciousness from what I gather prsonally. This state can learn through experience but it doesn't evolve from "sludge" to something grand. Not like the type of evolution you see in the created worlds where forms begin as patterns and cellular automata to more advanced forms and creatures no not that type of evolving.
Consciousness always was and it can only learn, not change in form to something greater or more advanced. I'm open to the idea but I find the scenario unlikely.
However, I believe what you are describing here "Patterns occasionally form out of randomness. This is a slightly higher awareness for a brief time. Even more rarely, you get the occasional pattern that forms a sustained (not indefinitely) pattern, a cellular automaton. Usually these automata peter out after a while"...... is the manifestation of the fixed state of consciousness into the "material" world, this is the process to create form not consciousness itself. In other words when we measure or observe activity at any level, it is a manifestation of a static state. This activity manifests from the conscious state, it's not evolving Itself, It is evolving material form into structures and embodiments capable of inhabiting souls.
Panpsychism is right on the money BTW.
My theory is that from this static or fixed conscious state there is only the activity of consciousness/awareness (which is not physically able to be observed), this of course naturally produces thought and this reality generates energy and it is from this original state that we see activity taking place and "popping in and out" from what we can physical observe to what we cannot. This would fit sense energy is described as being neither created or destroyed, but the question begs then why does it act as an intelligence or like it has an awareness? the answer of course is that it IS intelligent, energy is present with conscious activity and is also manipulated to create form from this fixed state of awareness. And this is what we see in reality, energy creating form and arrangements in creation so that conscious life could and can be experienced through.
One mistake that can be made when examining creation or the material world is to focus on results (or activity), only rather everything and every movement, result and manipulation of energy comes out of a pure, fixed conscious and intelligent state and this is where all things originate. Consciousness is creating movement and manifesting itself through material form. This is a process actually, to manifest in form from a state of pure awareness is a process of evolving from one point to another and depending on what is being created it can take quite awhile. But this is only true for the material world, and really time has not much relevance to an eternal consciousness to say the least.
Good job, I agree with much of the OP. It really has a lot of potential. One thing I'm not really sure about is "higher consciousness" needing a brain or a bigger brain. Higher consciousness is that which pervades all from the outside, it doesn't need a brain it is already an unrestricted awareness. The brain and brain size is needed for higher conscious experience through embodiments, not God. Because now that conscious individualized soul is restricted to the anatomy of that body and form. This is what reduces and confines your experience here in this realm and why you need it. But God does not need any brain, conscious intelligence collects as creation collects experiences but it is already in the highest state of consciousness possible independent of any material construct. Everything that manifests out of this is a limited lesser form.
The brain is also your connection from your soul to your physical body, but it does not dictate your awareness, experience does. The brain is nothing more than a component, a restrictor liked we talked about before. But anyways all in all this is great stuff!
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@Mopac
I'm not interested in people like that who have knowingly and willingly rejected truth and love. I am more interested in those who identify as atheists who are honest and can be reasoned with. The ones who don't have it in their head that they know what I believe better than I do.
I'm not supporting his behavior at all, actually I'm not even referring to him, I ignore him. I'm talking about the decent members that happen to be atheist.
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@Mopac
Well perhaps it would make more sense if you were to first get them to admit that IF God exists, then there is in fact an Ultimate Reality or that God meets the definition of that....rather than just saying the Ultimate Reality exists and if you deny it you are deluded.
Yes I'm well aware of that members behavior. I know full well and why you see me mainly ignore it.
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@Mopac
Denial of God is certainly a delusional position.
But, you have to remember that is your own perception, even if it were true. I'm positive they believe you are deluded.
It is a disservice to God denier to tell them otherwise. It is not right to lead them on to believe that such a position is even possibly valid.
Of course if God exists it is silly to deny The Ultimate Reality, it's just common sense but we are dealing with perceptions when debating and that plays the main role here. Mopac would say the Ultimate Reality still exists despite what atheists believe and that is true obviously, beliefs do not alter that. But what we are dealing with in people are perceptions not really what Ultimate Reality is or means. For one to accept an ultimate reality they would have to admit that there is a reality outside what we perceive as individuals and even if they did that there is no real reason for them to believe or label that reality outside themselves God.
No one can accept what Mopac is claiming other than one who has already accepted God exists. I accept the Ultimate Reality exists because I know God exists and so the term is evident, but you can't force that on someone who perceives reality as a material construct alone, they can simply deny it as they do. BTW I would not say let atheists believe their position is valid, but to them it IS. What reasons have you given them to accept it other than just claiming one exists?
So the answer is not to label atheists deluded (even if it were true), the answer of course can only be solved when and if they embrace Theism. Then the term Ultimate Reality actually means something, makes sense and is obvious..... So as it's always been, the real challenge is to convince atheists of the existence of God and as everyone knows that is a rare event, in these forums anyways. It does happen though but most people come here in debate mode, not considering mode and so to them there is no reason to even accept Ultimate Reality as being God, even though it is.
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@janesix
I agree, I don't think anyone is claiming we know what the Ultimate Reality consists of, but we know there is one and we know what it means at least.
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@Goldtop
"Showing videos of my band would no longer make me anonymous here. Duh."
Jerks hide themselves.
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@janesix
We don' know what Ultimate reality consists of, and what part God plays in that.
Perhaps, perhaps not, it's more of a commonsense thing really. Following that frame of thought, everything is within the Ultimate Reality. It is what encompasses all of creation as a whole and possesses full unrestricted knowledge and awareness. It's almost the same as saying "omnipresent" TBH.
I would say God doesn't play a part in it, God IS it. It is the only Reality that experiences reality as it truly is. I know it sounds kinda generic, just trying to make sense of the term for you.
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