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@janesix
strangely enough, i had about four to five hours of feeling of relaxation and peace. it felt like it came from God. I had this same feeling the first night too, for about a half an hour. the first night it was stronger, and definitely felt like a spiritual experience. I'm not sure what to make of it.
Makes sense to me, you've been seeking lately and thinking about spiritual stuff and enquiring....quitting smoking is just flowing right into it all that direction. I think you will be proud if you keep it behind ya and can make it through. Yet another conscious level up for you.
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@janesix
Thanks for the update, man if you get through a week somehow you will basically have it in the bag, just have to beat the emotional tug when it comes. Keep truckin! third day almost up!
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Hi mate.did god build , create dinosaurs and meteorites / asteroids.Does he talk of them " coming together " ?
Meteorites and asteroids are just pieces of space material and debris, space material is created and used for building planets and yes, believe it or not for destroying life on planets if the need arises.
Yes God forms embodiments through a process of evolution including the dinosaurs.
Did god make our moon ?
All stars, moons and planets are formed and positioned by the Creator. Of course the moon being positioned to give us a bit of reflective shine at night. Cozy ain't it?
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@janesix
Don't discount it just yet! if we discounted hypotheses in the past we would have never made any progress..."It's a hypothesis that's barely beyond the level of speculation. Even though there are mathematical models which allow for the existence of the multiverse, the parallel universe and multiverse hypotheses are not yet within the realm of explorable phenomena."
It's only speculation coming from a secular human perspective because they need more than some physical medium to test besides mathmatics, the proposition has been around as long as spirituality just about. Have you ever seen a circle labyrinth? this is kind of the concept of it which IMO explains better the layered experiences humans have including OBE's. This image is the closest thing to what I mean....the center being pure consciousness and the multiverses would be the layers.
Or even better yet, this image, just forget the silly face in the middle lol...the center column which runs down through all the worlds is the pure conscious state of God.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I think a lot of the magic associated with the Old Testament God was hidden and swashed. Kabbalah shows a side to God most Christians would reject. I view Moses as the first of many shaman who translated events elsewhere to here. The Jews were not in Egypt but a city most like Egypt somewhere else so they called it that when talking to laymen.
I can relate to this, the Bible is packed full of paranormal and out of body experiences. Funny how fundamentalists and pew warmers run away from that, don't read the Bible then, if you don't wana hear about visits from spiritual beings, angels, demons, visions, multiple realms and all kinds of occult activities.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I agree. We really want to get out of town and raise our own meat even. We had a few backyard chickens and loved it. Eggs and meat. But we need more space. I hate where we are right now. We had to move quick and it's not a great neighborhood. I want pigs and goats and chickens and make cheese. If I thought I could do the homestead thing I would.
Hey, don't forget about your veggies and fruits mon!! my family was from the old school too, meat and potatoes but the power is in the fruits so grow some of that too! I love fundamental, survival living and the farm life, we're stuck in the city at the moment too. First chance I get we are headed to the hills lol, just like you I want some land and a farm.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Why does god bother making animals that go extinct.
That depends, many species have gone extinct in our world due to humanity and the growing demand, poaching ect. But yes, creation does take right turns and left turns. God is learning while creating, perhaps for a very long time and sometimes the Creator will put a stop to a certain process. The dinosaurs obviously was the latter, making way for humans to evolve, giant reptiles get old after a while. Fun though, God is no more a child creating than anyone else, it's also something that is fun not just one dimensional....dinosaurs had to go for humans to inhabit the earth, dinosaurs were also used to predict earth atmosphere and conditions based on their responses... The Creator uses lower life forms to acclimate to each environment, then builds a higher order of experience.
When you leave this body and planet you will see how much higher evolved it is than here. This is the wild wild west of creation, this is the part of creation where things are still being examined and proposed, kind of like a lab lol.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Growing my own food organically. Nature remedies for things you wouldn't see a dr for. Making soaps and lotions.
Now you're speaking my language :)
Making incense. I kept coming across witch sites with recipes and at some point realized I had done some spell work as a kid as well as some astral stuff. Which I have a hard time doing now. Same for dream work. Used to have great dreams and remember them. I struggle now. Think it's a not ready thing.
I think its interesting kids have more intuition to pick up on spiritual phenomenon, most people lose that as they get older. Not because kids are deluded, but because they have less presumptions about life. They don't carry as much baggage.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I don't think he walked the Earth.
Why not? even though the Gospels are themselves evidence, I'm sure the religious authorities wanted to keep their murder of the down low. It doesn't surprise me there isn't much evidence outside the Gospels because of the nature of what Jesus did. These people that killed him were crooked as hell.
I think it happened somewhere else. Just like the other gods.
That's possible, I don't discount the layers of knowledge and symbolic value, I tend to believe it is both, Jesus existed as well as the teachings represent many things. I do believe Jesus was an incarnation, but I have no problems with him being on Earth. The spiritual Masters come down to the lower worlds to redeem mans stupid ways.
Same for Old Testament. That is why there is no proof. I think the Bible is confusing. Half of what people focus on isn't Jesus.
I do take a figurative approach to much of the OT, but spiritual Masters do manifest here to break up the negative forces. There was a turn of events that took place 2000 years ago, the account of Jesus fits that description, the religious authorities had a stronghold in that culture...could be wrong though.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Second time I started meditation and holistic stuff that lead to the gods I work with now.
The meditation (also contemplation) seems to wake people up to more awareness I like it. What did you mean by holistic stuff?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Initially I think believing in ghosts sparked it.
The paranormal, yeah I guess that is what held my interest in spirituality.
I got into tarot reading and what I would now call light spell work as a teen.
Yeah I went the other way, more towards like spiritual principles and word of knowledge type stuff, gifts of the spirit and interceding. I would have probably avoided that when I was a teen lol.
One I left for college not much happened. Then I had an actually full on "salvation experience" in college. But I was surround by Christianity. I still didn't read the Bible for decades and had my own views on god and Jesus that I assumed were right. Second time I started meditation and holistic stuff that lead to the gods I work with now.Never occured to me Christians though he was real. I thought they just liked him as an example.
At some level I guess it wouldn't matter if one believed Jesus was actual or just a symbolic type figure, the application is the same really I would think. I tend to believe Jesus was a historical spiritual Master because of the contents themselves, not so much the doctrines that surround it all.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I was until I was 20 then for a period of two years about 13 years ago. I had no connection to god at all, sure none existed. Now I have always believed in a soul because I believe in the dead and have seen a few.
That's cool, I've seen a few too. That is rare, most people get freaked out by that. If I may ask, what got you into the whole spiritual thing? was it any one source that enlightened you?
My parent showed no inkling to religion and we never went to any type of service or really discussed god/ gods.
Interesting, did you grow up in America? where I was raised pretty much everyone had some kind of "Christian" heritage, or their parents were.. back then it was just a label really, no kid or even parent rarely exemplified it in any way. If you sat in church every so often I guess you were considered a Christian lol. Funny enough I fell in love with the Gospels at a very young age, I thought of Jesus as a hero I would apply all the things He taught.
Now I examine more than a single source, pull from many sources of information including my own experiences.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Were you ever an atheist? or did you always have a sense of spirituality on some level?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Even though many of them mock us there is a deep part of them that should be interested. I mean it's not like they have no soul, its just that aspect of themselves needs to be developed, they are still a part of the Creator. Too bad everything always has to be some war or protest, that is the part I like least about all of it.
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@Polytheist-Witch
They hate theists too much.
You woulda never guessed it, they can't stay away from us....well I can't stay away them either, love hate relationship.
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@keithprosser
You'd be surprised what some spiritual souls know :)
Then again would you ever accept it, that's why it will take them countless generations to come. Meanwhile all the souls that leave their physical body will know how unaware the people here are.
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@Castin
Alright, just remember you asked!
The multiverse is a theory that many physicists today are seriously discussing. They remain divided on the issue, but if we assume for the sake of discussion that the multiverse is real, then to theists, I ask:
This is more real than the average person knows. The God worlds lol, I catch heat from using that term but it means multiverses. There are several layers or "universes" within the created worlds. Each of these layers or worlds have endless planets, stars and galaxies. The reason it will likely remain a theory for a long, long time is because these worlds cannot be observed directly through a physical medium, mathematically maybe but the multi worlds exist at another rate of frequency, this is what you see in NDE's as well as the soul leaves the body it is present in the next parallel world. It is true of the body that the soul inhabits as well that it has a form that correlates with that layers frequency.
Do you believe there would be a different God in each universe, or one God over them all?
It's both, all beings and all incarnations come from One original Source, the first Source encompasses everything, and every place. If the Creator wants to set up a hierarchy of "overlords" or gods, God does so through incarnations. These embodiments are created to govern each universe, and it could be possible they themselves are creators or have become creators. These beings are obviously way beyond any humans and souls that experience these beings believe they are God, and they are to some extent only they come out of the "Father" or whatever you want to call It, Hindus call that Brahman ect ect...they seem to have a more precise idea of what an incarnation is.
Anyways these entities or "spiritual" beings have different forms and different personalities, creation is also set up as a type of hierarchy or chain of progression and these beings also serve as a sort of gateway into the next world.
If the latter, do you think God's values and commands would change from universe to universe, as befitting their fundamental differences?
The spiritual laws of all the God worlds are the same all the way through and there exists 5 parallel multiverses in the lower half of the grand division of creation and then above that are the pure conscious worlds. These pure conscious worlds would be unlike anything you could ever dream of.
This "law" that encompasses all of creation is known as the law of Karma (sowing and reaping), as well as spiritual principles, they remain constant and apply to every single incarnation and every layer. There is no escape from that but the "natural" or physical laws vary because the universes operate at varying states of consciousness, and so natural laws correlate accordingly. The higher you get up into the God worlds the less mass and less limitations.
If you believe in an afterlife, would you expect to see souls from other universes there? Or would it be one afterlife per universe?
You very well could...The after life IS the next parallel world the soul exists in as it leaves their current body, this would be what is referred to as the astral world and this is what most souls that leave this body are present in. This is the afterlife from the physical world but it goes much deeper. The soul can also eventually drop its astral body, only it lives much longer due to its lighter energetic frequency and mass. Here, like in every world are countless planets and galaxies and places the astral body can exist and that includes heavens. Most people don't know that heaven is a planet, and there's not just one.
Generally speaking only the higher souls can visit downwards, the souls in the lower worlds have to progress and leave their body to reach the higher realms unless they begin to cultivate that aspect of themselves. If you were to be present in the astral world yes you would likely see not only those souls who have relevance to you personally but many, many others. You should remember that souls still have lives and things they need to and want to accomplish even after they leave here. While the multiverses are incredibly beautiful and fun souls still have responsibilities and roles to fulfill so it's not like you'll see every soul that's ever lived just layin around lol, nah they still are very busy, much to learn and discover. Just like here on Earth souls can still impact their worlds and planets wherever they exist.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Interesting, what do you think about non-dual Vedanta? or Vedic literature?
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@janesix
Whoohoo keep goin, you can get through it. 24 hours is pretty good.
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@Polytheist-Witch
What is your source of spirituality in literature if I may ask?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Yeah but can't you just ignore them all so we can hang out and discuss stuff? at least we have a place to gather...
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@secularmerlin
No now I would like to know more sorry thatis the first thing. I Just want to read up about this if you have a link. Sorry if I tend to cone of argumentative even when I don't mean to be sometimes. And I am also more argumentative then perhaps I would like to be. Could be part of why I'm here.
As far as what I'm referring to in quantum mechanics you can check out this relatively short video where it gives you a basic understanding of where we are currently at with understanding the fundamentals of life down to the microscopic level and beyond, before the particle and atom ect ect, down to the actual "fabric" of the universe prior to that . Really cool stuff, normally it might bore someone to death but this guy is kinda funny and easy to understand.
One thing to consider when talking with me, is that I gather information from all sides and legit sources (well legit IMO) and so while I can show you things that are factually known in say quantum mechanics I can take you a step further with spirituality when putting things together. But anyways watch this video if you get a chance and we can discuss it if you would like.
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@Polytheist-Witch
You gonna hang around for awhile this time?
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@Polytheist-Witch
So an atheist comes up with a scale that makes the atheist top of the scale. LOL.
They already have, you never noticed? LOL, we're the "idiots and deluded" ones and they ae the "critical thinkers and smart ones"...yeah that would be first tier.
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@secularmerlin
I would be happy to learn more if this is not the case otherwise I am pretty sure what you are describing is purely hypothetical and only described mathematically. As for this formless awareness of which you speak I don't think we can detect it and so I'm not sure it exists.
Wait a minute, now all the sudden you are skeptical of mathematics, accurate predictions and theory? you haven't made the quantum leap yet lol? do you study unification theory, grand unified theory, quantum physics ect ect anything like that?
As for this formless awareness of which you speak I don't think we can detect it and so I'm not sure it exists.
First of all you don't need anyone to detect formless, conscious awareness for you...you ARE that, your awareness controls the physical body not the other way around. Now all you need to do is face the hard questions and deal with them in a rational way. Allow yourself to be open to what spiritual sources have been proposing for ages about reality and the nature of creation long before any technological advances as well as metaphysical studies which have the potential to reach outside what you currently accept. Ask yourself how energy is able to stabilize itself on a level of frequency to create form and act as if it had some intelligence or awareness? why, does it do that? why does it create forms where intelligence and awareness can manifest into environments, when you become aware of what is going on you will be forced to transcend your current mental barriers because no longer does a narrow perspective cut it anymore, it does nothing to answer the hard questions of our experiences. This is the road to spiritual progress though, you have to be willing to leave behind old paradigms in favor of broader ones.
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@janesix
I do indeed wish you that my friend, one day you will be able to look back on it in disgust but I know it is hard to get there. This might sound stupid but go watch a scary heart surgery or someone getting their neck cut out....it helped me rise above the urge to keep smoking when I would picture those types of things. The health risks outweighed my wanting to smoke a cig eventually. It also might help to pick up another higher conscious hobby like something health based.
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@janesix
What does it mean to "surrender" to God
It means to place yourself in a position before God where you're willing to just let go. It's also an attitude adjustment really, most of the time we're not surrendering to things, we're being skeptical, judgmental, doubtful, picky, distrustful, suspicious, hesitant, sneering ect ect especially with things and circumstances we are unfamiliar with. But in all serious this is God, the Big Guy, you can't play games with the Big Guy and now is the time to stop playing Mr. Knows it all and understand we as individual souls are basically pea brains compared to the Creator and so this attitude of letting go is more like you would with a lover or someone you admire greatly.
Someone you admire greatly you rarely doubt, and certainly aren't distrustful or always skeptical. Same thing with God, there is no use putting up walls and other things so one must as well just approach God ready to fall in love with the most amazing aspect of themselves and knowledge that is so vast we just have to surrender to it at some point.
It's okay to be skeptical as you enquire and learn new things as you put things together and examine all the information and evidences but at some point this has to transform into the real deal, not just some beliefs and superficial nonsense. And to make that happen you must put yourself in another position away from the attitudes I listed above. Of course spirituality is a progression and so keys like this just help the progress unfold. Faith is actually trust and confidence and not empty beliefs, so while confidence does establish itself through experience obviously you have to extend some trust in order for that to happen. Just like you would with anyone you were interested in, it has to be a two way thing, need to be willing to let your guard down ect ect...there is no sense in hiding or keeping anything back from the Creator, so it is better to make yourself vulnerable by surrendering. It's gonna happen anyways especially when a person decides to commit to this.
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@secularmerlin
I'm not certain this is the case. The truth is that so far as we view things that are smaller and smaller things that appear to be one are truly many. Perhaps this will change one day but to my knowledge to date it has not.
Huh? I take it you've never researched microscopy? what you said is just the opposite. The outer first layers appear to be many and separate, as you focus closer and closer in everything becomes larger and eventually joins itself and is interconnected to where you have basically a static image where at one level it seemed to have contrast and of course it does at the surface level, this is a state of frequency which has stabilized itself to maintain structure but it is still connected to the base level of everything, like all levels touching hands as they manifest outward. This is that layer of static awareness that everything is formed. In order for there to be form/forms....."The Law of Correspondence holds the Oneness together, like the cosmic glue that connects everything to everything else. In “The Origin Speaks,” Needler explained a few things:
- Energy in its purest sense is formless or particle-less beingness or an unseen force. When energy is given form, it needs to be stabilized by frequencies; otherwise it is free-form.
- The human form is interwoven into the fabric of the physical universe, because it is made from the same energetic components at ten frequency bands (gross physical FB 1-3, astral FB 4-7, and purely energetic FB 8-10). It is designed to fully experience its environment."...
So as you begin to have this stabilization is where you begin to see separation and contrast, but it all springs forth from a unified base, which can be labeled pure energy, or even deeper pure awareness which has no form.
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@Mopac
So yeah, protestantism is a corrupt and incomplete form of Christianity.
Where are these supposed "protestants" that you label for them to defend themselves? those who are weak in faith and confidence need to trash others to elevate themselves rather than just defending and arguing their own position.
The protestants broke off from a church that broke off from us.
That is where you lose track of what is actually going on. Of course you need to believe there was some institution to believe you're some Orthodox and everyone else is second hand heretics. There was never a church to break away from you are living in a pipe dream, it was the people themselves and you should know it. The confession of Peter was never about designating religious authorities rather was an individual commitment. There is nothing to "break away" from goofy, that is something you have made up. The people, who apply the teachings of Jesus are the church, not traditions and religious authorities. There should have never been "protestants, orthodox, catholic" ect ect… the body needs to be one and become one. Unity was the only direction the spirit wants. And unfortunately this probably will never happen in our lifetime because of this kind of post and attitudes.
And well, the secularists are way off. the mark. Protestant academics are not really too far removed from the secularists.
There's may things way off the mark including your assertions about some original church when there never was one. The church are the people which make up the body. Bricks and religious doctrines are not bodies people are. So there is no authority to condemn others except for the Gospels themselves. You've placed yourself in a false position (of pride like you accuse others of) and in doing so you really lost sight of the objective of the Gospels and their purpose.
And the thing is, one of the major overarching themes of the new testament is how the letter kills bit the spirit gives life. What is the spirit? Truth. How did the west take this? They took this to mean that everything has to be rationalized, academicized, and intellectualized. We Orthodox take that to mean purifying the heart and intelllect. We don't mistake knowledge for Truth.
Lol, of course because you never ask you only accuse and pretend you and your religious buddies are the only one who does this, pretty lame actually. Try asking one and be willing to receive an answer. But as of right now, where are any protestants to defend themselves against your slander?
But you would greatly benefit from having an Orthodox Priest to consult during your studies. They are trained to help with these things. If you find a good one, they will get you to see things in ways you never would have before.
Can you give me an example of that? without making assumptions about any persons?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Please refrain from claiming that I am biased against a certain story when the obvious fact is that if anything I am naturally biased very much in favor of it due simply to the fact that it is the only fucking story that I am reading out of thousands that exist. People will think that you are very silly if you do so.
…."backs away slowly".....okay bro. Wow.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
That is why I tried to brush over that and focus on instead learning more about the actual writing itself, such as looking at the similarities it shares with other mythologies and the evidence of the cut-out story of Lilith.
Why? are you not interested in the message of Genesis as a unique work?
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@Outplayz
Although you can never pin point someones exact color, you can see what they are likely. It's funny... i wish i didn't learn this bc now it's all i see. Like all of moderation is pretty green. Once you see this you see which colors are attacking them and which colors are in support. It's pretty funny. The red members are on the fence / sometimes in attack sometimes in support, the blue members are also either or, but the orange or orange/blue members come at them the hardest. Lol.
I was thinking the same darn thing! we should probably play this game in PM's though LMBO. You've ruined us...
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@linate
It may sound strange at first, but the soul itself must be stepped down and confined to a physical form to take on an embodiment, otherwise it is just a conscious light form or being. Since the soul itself is of the same substance of the Creator it must be individualized and enveloped into bodies, like a cage or a shell. This is what confines your experience to one particular anatomy and experience. Without form you are one with the Creator, this is pure conscious awareness with no form or embodiment, just your conscious activity. So the soul is distinct from spirit bodies and a human body, or exists independent of them, when talking about "images" or forms we would be referring to your subtle layers, not the soul itself. As I said, while the soul has no form it penetrates like light would, it illuminates what you put your attention on.
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@linate
do you think there are or will be intelligent life outside of human beings in the universe?
Yes sir, absolutely.
do our eternal selves ever become anything than human?
Your soul has a progressive nature to it, you are also steered by your own desires believe it or not. Which is fine, or you can wake up from that and experience much more. Your call. However, your conscious soul is never limited to any singular form. Human is only one material form.
do our eternal souls or selves have an appearance or image?
The soul itself is much like a flash light or a source of light, your soul is more like light than a physical object. Your conscious soul shines through the mind and body, looking through the physical form like a mask. However, when you were individualized you were sheathed in layers, or coverings. These coverings are plural not singular. Your physical body obviously looks like it does, but your four other covering are called subtle bodies, they are what some describe as a spirit body. When you leave the physical body your next layer will be the astral layer, this layer is much finer and lighter than the physical body. You will still resemble yourself in a way, but you have a spirit body, look really young and vibrant.
what do souls generally look like?
Like the sun. But spirit embodiments look translucent, beautiful and yet full of color. The bodies themselves though are very light weight, like they can float. Really awesome and really cool.
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@Outplayz
Yeah it is a bit hard to find but this is the best video i found where the guy sounded like he knows what he is talking about
Okay thanks.
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@Outplayz
That's good you realize it. Many people don't realize when they are getting trapped. Now do you understand why i thinking allowing a little chaos is beneficial? It's a very teal way (well now maybe coral) of looking at it seeing that it is needed to bring things together.
Haha sure why not.
I don't think you get stuck in blue too much. I thought sometimes in the past when i thought you were hardcore into your spiritual path is the only. But through talking to you i've realized you understand that there are little nuances that could be different. So i don't think you get stuck in blue too bad, for blue is basically the black and white thinkers. My religion is all there is and i'm right bc a higher power tells me so types. I know you can think of some users here that are really stuck in blue. I don't think of you as one.
Okay I'll consider that.
But in regards to green. There are some green things you do.
I would agree with that.
I personally think every color is needed for this world to evolve, so i don't really dislike any color bc i see their benefit to the world.
I kind of like that sentiment. I think I could definitely get with that for sure.
Other than this some books go into these higher colors. But you have to understand... teal is a present day manifestation. People are just waking up to this color. So to transcend teal is pretty crazy and rare if it's even a thing.
That is most likely correct.
I personally think it is, and i don't want to assert i am there bc it sounds arrogant, but i may not be fully teal, but i clearly understand it... and i feel i understand it a little beyond what it is. The thing is yellow is the most important in tier 2. Bc yellow is the color that seeks knowledge of every kind. It is always looking at different things, sorta scatter brained in knowledge.
Yeah I like a lot of things in yellow, I really liked the systematic complexity, understanding, multiple perspectives, open mindedness and really I like personal development. I think I could flesh that out some more for sure. Actually maybe sense orange irritates me I could embody it a little more. Red though, that is like the opposite of what I am, I just flat out don't like it lol. I ain't goin anywhere near that one.
I feel although in certain things i am teal or coral even... i am mainly yellow bc i'm not ready to leave yellow yet. I know i still have a lot of learning to do before i can put yellow behind me. So it's important to pin point which elements you have in you in what colors. Bc different perspectives will be in different colors. You have to try and transcend them all up the latter to be fully enlightened as they say.
I agree. But I'll skip red :p sorry
That's an interesting point of view and actually what i was most curious about when i made this thread... can people transcend their color? Me personally, i have been climbing the latter bc that's just who i am. I have always been this way... a person with the capacity to get to teal or beyond. I remember every moment of my life and what color i was in but i moved up the spiral naturally. So, i wonder if everyone can do this. I know some people are taught and they can do it that way... but i wonder if someone that is stuck in blue or orange... if they can ever escape it. Bc they are positive they are right. That's the tricky thing of each level.
Well remember reincarnation is a reality to consider here. No one really has any time limit to get it right. However they do stifle their progress and potential as the magnificent spiritual beings they are.
Each color thinks the other color is deluded or crazy.
Lol I know, just like we see here in the forums.
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@3RU7AL
Have you seen the 2012 Ridley Scott movie "Prometheus"?
Lol yes, that wasn't a Deist God though, that was some advanced race of beings. I think it's safe to say that was only a movie.
That movie portrays a race of super intelligent beings that create humans (and all life on earth) but then lose interest and forget about them and go on to what they consider much more interesting things.
Yeah, that wouldn't qualify as God and that is not where I was going with this. I'm talking about God baby, not some advanced race where you were created as some freak project and then left to die lol come on man.
Kind of like a lab assistant that grows some mold in a petri dish. Sure they "made it" but does that fact alone give its existence some sort of intrinsic "meaningfulness"?
You seemed to move into some other direction I was going, did you do that on purpose? I'm talking about you being created by a God not produced in a lab by some aliens. If you were produced by God you are a part of God, like family...Deist God or whatever God exists.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
The first obvious things that we notice as we read the first few verses are of course how little the story matches with what we know of modern science. The obvious things such as day and night existing before the sun and moon, light and plants existing before the sun, etc. These are hard statements to ignore considering modern scientific knowledge. However, I am not reading this book to find things to criticize about it or try to prove some point. I want to try to get a genuine understanding of it. After all these stories were created thousands of years ago by ignorant people, for them it was natural to look at the blue sea and see it is made of water then look at the blue sky and assume it is made of water being held above us (Genesis 1:6) It makes sense that someone would look into the sky during a full moon and think that the moon produces light (Genesis 1:16) even if we know these things to be false.
Okay I know the average religious person argues for the perfection of the Bible, but when they do so their beliefs are dependent upon that so I'm gonna try something different here. It doesn't have to be that way, nobody is required to argue for a perfect Bible, especially if we really look at what the objective of the accounts are because after all this is a spiritual book not a science book and that is the nature of it. It is relaying a spiritual message not a science message so let us judge it based on a spiritual framework. If it were indeed claimed to be a science book then we could judge it based upon our current scientific understanding and miss the whole point. What if we were to put aside imperfections and examine the message by itself in a Theistic context, if we were to take more of a figurative rendering let's see what we get...
God sets in motion the creation of the universe, this doesn't have to be told in a scientific way at all. The beginning of Genesis is a picture of what God did or more like an idea, not an exact formula or order. The authors would have been putting forth an ideal or creating an image of God creating the world so that the reader can have a mental image of that. If it were a science book, there would be pages and pages of articulated chapters of nothing but how God specifically created the universe and that is absurd for anyone to expect. Rather, we get an illustration a child could grasp and it is just an idea not meant to be some perfected detailed analysis.
After we get the picture that it was God that created the heavens and the earth, creatures, plants and animals now we get into our part in the play.
Now we see two people that represent mankind as a whole, not just two random people, this is very important to grasp because that is how it is relevant to us, not just to two characters that we have no relation to. Rather the account is articulating the nature of man and his challenges he faces in a dualistic environment. Adam and Eve representing mankind, the "snake" representing the temptations we face as humans. There was no talking snake lol, the snake represents our weaknesses, and the tree represents the knowledge of good and evil, this is the mind and how we battle duality in this realm. By consuming the tree (the mind) being knowledge, we also contend with the nature of duality.
There are many more examples and so it doesn't really matter if characters were borrowed because we are no longer worried about a literal approach but understanding the underlying message. Now we have a scenario that makes sense and is applicable, there are so many layers to the creation account and the Adam and Eve stories I could go on for days just articulating the spiritual dimensions to this. This is what is magical about spiritual texts, they have layers of meanings not just one. That is the fun part about using illustrations/stories... you can apply more angles to it.
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@3RU7AL
I'm not sure how a hypothetical Deistic Being adds any meaningfulness to human existence. Please explain.
I haven't been following the discussion but this caught my eye.
I keep seeing this claim but I have yet to hear a valid reason for it. For whatever reason people equate a "Deist" God with one not existing, how does that follow? If ANY God were to exist, whether that be Deist or any Creator it means you have a specific origin and purpose for your individual self/soul. It would be like saying your entire history, family, experiences, knowledge all have no meaningfulness to you. Why would you think that? If any God exists don't you want to know about that? how would it NOT be relevant to you would be my question?
I'm aware the definition of Deist God says "is not directly involved" and so lets say that might be true, how does that change what I wrote above? do you really think a Creator would do all of this and just ball out though?? you can believe in a Deist God and still have meaning, in other words God created you for some reason and expression obviously because you are here.
Even if we erase all the God names religions put forth all this is still intact. If your soul comes from God then you are a apart of that, there is no way around it and in that alone should be meaningful to you at least on some level no? what if its true that God doesn't "directly interfere" but does so through you? in other words what if your connection to God was your core conscious awareness and not the external world? none of this has meaning to you?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Life on this planet is fit for its inhabitants.
I do not understand how this should be the case in a fine-tuned universe. I once made a thread to this effect on DDO:
Why? the human destination for experience is the planet earth. That is why we have the bodies we have and the arrangement of our galaxy. It is fine tuned for the human form to evolve into what it is now.
I think the idea I try to get across in the OP of that thread went over the head of most that read it, despite it being such a simple idea. Life as we know it cannot exist in most of the universe.
Life as we know it for human bodies, not souls. Souls take on different forms and anatomies according to the atmosphere they inhabit. So while souls on planet earth cannot survive in other places of the universe in a human body the soul can inhabit other forms, that correlate with their environment. The structures of the embodiments change according to what place it is in. No one is claiming a human can survive anywhere but earth, but that is just bodies. Souls actually exist on many varying states of consciousness and forms.
Even if every planet in the entire universe were miraculously made to be perfectly fit for life most of the universe would still be incapable of supporting life.
Life for the creatures on earth you mean, not for souls and other bodies types. The Creator knows exactly what to do, the bodies that are supplied match the environment for that soul to survive. So in other words, other life forms in this universe are going to be different creatures, or have different anatomies that withstand where they are. Soul travel is another form of investigation of the planets and galaxies outside this one.
Even if our solar system was all there was in the entire universe and hundreds of thousands of earthlike planets were added to it the vast majority of the universe would still be incapable of supporting life.
You don't know anything about the vast majority of the universe, why are you asserting that? I think the point that human bodies cannot survive leaving earth has been made clear, only it is a strawman because the soul can inhabit any place the Creator has set up..... in a different form/body.
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@Mopac
"a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
Thanks for quoting my scriptures bub, they are mine as they are everyone's. But I don't need you to tell me the contents of MY book.
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@disgusted
It sustains itself for billions of years so that you can play for years to come. How long do you need to sustain it for? once it has finished its course it will be done again anyways. Creation is cyclical, and you little bully will never vanish into nothingness so enjoy it and stop complaining. All matter must runs its course and decompose the only thing eternal is the conscious soul.
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@Mopac
Heretics are united only in their opposition to orthodoxy, nothing else.
Funny Mopac, you are the one that divides and puts other people in categories. Read your posts. If you come here trashing other beliefs you will be challenged on it. Don't pretend your some martyr.
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@disgusted
Congratulations, it took you 3 billion years to learn physical forms pass away. Where's Ethang? can the class say _______
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@Outplayz
But understand it is really rare to even get to turquoise, so don't trick yourself... like me you may not be as solid that color as you may think. I feel like i am, but i also feel like i could be a little more yellow since i just don't feel ready to be full turquoise.
Yeah I remember all that and was looking out for it, and that a person could stay in "teal" for a long time just working it out. I can see that I just couldn't help but to still feel curious because all of it made sense. I wouldn't say I have surpassed it just that it is the way the last color left me feeling, like I wanted more. None of the colors other than orange seemed stupid or insane, well except for the lower two of course. I watched out for that because he said that is where your color was probably located.
It's funny, because my mentor falls right into teal as well and more so than me I'm sure. I get the whole head knowledge vs development thing, and I'm looking at that. Like I said I have some shadows too, mainly in blue and green, I get caught up in those sometimes.
So yes, i did search for some coral traits and they sorta fit... not much. One guy called coral the chaos character. This would be a person that knows exactly what kind of chaos you can enter into a system to fix the system. Bc you would know that creating said chaos will make the system work itself out.
I did a quick search to find coral and realized the same guy didn't do that color, is that correct? the only ones I found I watched for a couple mins and they seemed a bit strange or not to the point. Do you have a link for that color?
A benefit of being in tier 2 is that you can not only be any color on any given moment, you know when you are and you can also see others in what color they are. You become fully conscious of the spiral in tier 2
I noticed that too, pretty cool. Once you got it you got it, these are just levels and states of consciousness souls get stuck in.
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