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@disgusted
Thanks for the opinion, go to bed old man. Wake up and take a walk in God's green, beautiful world.
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@disgusted
I'll let you know what my fears are, until then you follow what I actually say.
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@disgusted
Everybody? you mean in your secret world you were hoping I was somehow wrong lol? no little bully, you may not know it but I am for you. Doesn't matter what you mock, you are soul just like we all are and we all have the same destiny in knowing what is true. Some take longer than others but that is irrelevant.
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@disgusted
That is what I thought old man. You gots nothin, and never will...
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@disgusted
Yeah, superman and Jesus are identical, that's why they have different names and purposes?
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@disgusted
The evidence has always been there.
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@disgusted
Superman got nothing on Jesus boy. But thanks for the opinion. Anything else?
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@disgusted
Hell doesn't exist, when you die you are dead, deal with it.
Hell doesn't exist like prisons do not exist lol, get real atheist. You'll be quite surprised when your flesh hits the dirt. That's not a threat BTW, it is a treat. One that you will find pretty fascinating. You can be an atheist all you like, but your consciousness will pull away from the physical body at death and only then will you realize you made mockery of all of us for no good reason.
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@BrutalTruth
This is a debate site, yet you prefer to debate on the forums? Interesting, though I'm afraid I don't share the same preference. I will clarify myself, but I will not debate you here.
What do you believe these forums are for then? If you refuse to debate me here, then perhaps we can discuss it.
Theists believe in the existence of an entity/entities that has/have yet to be shown to be empirically perceivable. That makes them delusional. Why? Observe an excerpt from my argument in the debate I linked you:
"have yet to be shown to be empirically perceivable"....and herein lies the very problem. This is a farce and completely untrue. They have been shown to exist time and time again. The difference being "perceivable".....not all humans that perceive will perceive the spiritual. Because you have to actually apply yourself. Then...what is "perceivable" becomes empirically demonstrable through the very means that spiritual things are observed. You have to be connected to the correct medium that correlates with the nature of what is being examined.
"Why Merely Making Claims Isn't EnoughI think my opponent, and the reader, can agree that we are all human. There are only two forms of knowledge available to humans:Knowledge a prioriKnowledge a posterioriWhat Is Knowledge A Priori And A Posteriori?Both of these terms refer to the method by which knowledge can be justifiably believed as true. To be justified in believing something is to have an epistemic reason to support it, or, more plainly stated: a reason for thinking it is true.
I addressed this in my very first post. Perhaps you overlooked it or thought it was not an option. Try again, there are more options than you think you know. You have to examine the method of study that correlates with the nature of what is being examined.
Knowldge a priori is knowledge that is justifiably believed to be true without the need of empirical experience. An example of knowledge a priori: All bachelors are unmarried. The term "bachelor" is defined as an unmarried male human by the English language. Therefore, a male human can only be classified as a bachelor if he is unmarried. Thus, if a male human is classified as a bachelor, then the male human is unmarried.
Lol, then this should be very easy for you...
Knowledge a posteriori is knowledge that cannot be justifiably believed as true without empirical experience. An example of knowledge a posteriori: It is currently raining outside. One cannot know that it is currently raining outside without either seeing it, hearing it, smelling it, tasting it, or touching it. If one of these empirical senses have not experienced rain in the current time, then knowledge that it is currently raining is not justifiably believed as true.
Welcome to the world of spirituality, which is based upon an objective reality, not a subjective one. Go back and read my definition of spirituality I provided.
The Christian God Is Claimed To Be An Entity
But...what KIND of entity?
Unfortunately, the Christian god, being an actual entity, does not meet the criteria of something that can be known a priori. Entities are things that can only be known a posteriori. In other words: Only through empirical experience. If a human has not seen, heard, smelled, tasted, or touched this Christian god, then said human cannot justifiably believe that the Christian god exists.
Then you do not know what spirituality is or testimonial evidence is, you only have a false misconception of it. IT IS, the observation and application of what is real, what is reality in field of expertise. Spirituality can only be experienced through individual vessels because of the very nature of it, yet IT IS empirical, it is not subjective. Because it exists independent of opinions and personal feelings though it relates to that also.
In ConclusionMy conclusion is very simple: The Christian god is an entity, and an entity can only be known through empirical experience. Therefore, unless my opponent wants to prove that they have empirically experienced this Christian god, then they cannot justifiably believe that the Christian god exists, nor can they prove it exists."
Why would you assume there was no experience of God?
Now, as I said, I will not be debating this issue with you here. If you wish to debate me, I'll happily challenge you to a formal debate. Otherwise, take my answer or leave it.
Then leave the discussion forums? I don't know what you are doing here if not to discuss these things. If you want a formal debate or people to vote for your debates then move on.
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@Stephen
That has nothing to do with the thread. But I find the bible a fascinating read and always have. I hope that answers your question.
No , it does not. I find many things "fascinating" I dislike. You obviously dislike Christianity and the scriptures involved.
" whereas at first you seemed somewhat polite."
It gets tedious having to repeat ones stance on the bible every time I have question or an opinion and I will admit frustration sometimes does, but rarely, creeps in. Particularly when I am repeatedly told that any fault lies with me, that I don't understand the scriptures or I am reading them wrong or have mistranslated them and many other ridiculous reasons for the theist not to have to explain away a biblical ambiguous anomaly. It is not hard to work out that some of the theisit here haven't read much- if any - of the scriptures that they are so eager to defend.
Either that or you are not qualified to interpret them in a legit way because you do not apply spiritual things to yourself? for example, you think because the Gospels mention "some" people murmured amongst themselves that Jesus was out of his mind and you interpret that as everyone believing Jesus was crazy. That is simply stupidity. Perhaps it is not Theists that have not read much? the Gospels are a perfect example of true spirituality, anything less is not adequate.
Take those contradictions above; just a few of hundreds contained in the bible that fawning sycophantic theist deny even exist never mind try to explain.
We have to discuss those contradictions and whether or not they actually matter in relevance to the soul.
Take the word Heaven: it is mentioned in the Bible over 550 times yet not a single resident theist here can explain what it is or where it is, yet the bible quite clearly states that it is occupied by some kind of beings of one sort or another and many christians believe a war once took place there and a devil was cast down from it?So where is heaven? what is heaven? are you going to answer?
Of course I'll answer, I have never not answered a forthcoming question. Heaven is an ACTUAL planet, it's most likely located in the higher part of the astral realm. There are several universes that exist beyond this one we perceive as humans. The heaven of the Bible is not the only heaven. There are many.
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@Plisken
In case you are wondering, I do in fact label spirituality a way of life without any doubt. But first, there was a system of ideas that presented that way of life...
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@Plisken
Sure, but not without a system of ideas FIRST correct? what good would a way of life be without knowing what that way was?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Coming to the end of reading the bible it is blatantly obvious that God had this book written and past on over time to end up with you.You being the reason why God " MADE " the bible.
Have you even read the entirety of the Gospels? do so, and tell me you're not in love with the Jesus character and what He taught......come on my brother, pick one Gospel and read it through and tell me what ya think about Jesus and what He did, taught and went through. Challenge for the year even though I know you don't read....read ONE Gospel and get back with me. Just one....
you can believe in a god until the cows come home.But without joining a group / picking the correct true holy book.Without a holy book having a belief in god is nothing more then having a belief in God.
Isn't that the point son, to believe in the reality of God despite what any book says? why would it matter about any religious group? Did you know, that religious group God and non-religious group God are the same lol? the difference being that one has labels, teachings and the other not. But both realities God exists and religious groups are irrelevant. You can experience God without religion, I'll put it to ya that way and I can explain....
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@Plisken
What is a religious context, if not an idea or system of ideals?
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@Plisken
Well the word doesn't just apply to Theism, but all ideas that form worldviews.
Ideology-
"a system of ideas and ideals
the science of ideas; the study of their origin and nature"
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@3RU7AL
This would seem to be an ontological problem.
No, no problem my friend. Especially not metaphysically.
I see it as a sliding scale, I was attempting to calibrate your perspective.
I see your opinion, but not an explanation of any problem.
So, in your view, the phenomenon of the big bang is, itself, evidence of life/intelligence?
No, not at all. However, the big bang certainly manifested from an awareness. The Creator is the force behind the manipulation of energy and element. But it is not evidence for life/intelligence per say, rather an interpretation of events.
This would seem to short-circuit any discussion of abiogenesis.
That would be the point, because abiogenesis is a farce. Not in a way where we can't show early forms of life, but in a way where why process takes place and acts as intelligence. The problem is solved understanding the very nature of the Creator. I don't want to short-circuit any discussions, rather eliminate nonsense.
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@BrutalTruth
Actually I am in a debate. Most of your claims have been refuted by my opening argument there, and so I invite you to follow the debate:
No actually, I'll follow you right here. What claims have been refuted? we can discuss it without a link.
As for the only claim I haven't refuted yet(your claim that people may have reason to believe): They're free to present that reasoning to me in the form of an argument for the claim that the Christian god exists.
Then you need to start by asking questions or creating topics, if you wish to have reasonings. I don't know what you need reasonings for until you present something that you doubt. BTW, I don't argue for any religious God in particular, I argue for the Creator period. I'm an omnist in regards to religious knowledge and that means I examine all forms of spirituality not just one over another. So it depends on what you wish to discuss here, I'm not limited to the Bible and I'm not limited by anything TBH. I didn't make any claim, you did when you claimed Theists are deluded. We need to start with your claims as you have made them so I'll let you begin in any way you would like. If you think holding Theistic beliefs is a delusion you need to explain yourself.
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@Goldtop
What is a bad ideology if you don't mind? and compared to what exactly? are you under the impression your personal ideology is what is good?
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@janesix
Precisely, they compare God to gnomes, fairies and Santa. Shows their willingness to spend all day arguing about absurdities, perhaps we should go to a fantasy forum and argue all day about the existence of goblins lol?
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@janesix
Lol, it's okay, he doesn't even know what evidence means or consists of. So he will never know there is evidence he spends hours in the religion forum that he finds ridiculous and delusional. He might not even know there is evidence he fills up 99% of my notifications. But no, no obsession there....
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This describes EtrnlVw perfectly, pretty much everything you say here is a delusion including your beliefs of me.
Thanks for the opinion, any more?
Delusion - an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.
Any reason this does not apply to you Mr. High Road? Since when are you the authority on what is reality and what is not? Try again....
If anyone was obsessed, it would be you with your God worlds, overlords and spiritual beings, it's all you ever talk
I am a Theist based on the reality of it, just as I'm a Father based on the reality of it. That is not an obsession for me to discuss all things true that are relevant to Theism/spirituality, just like it is not an obsession for me to discuss all things related to my children as well this is a religion forum in case you have yet to notice. You on the other hand, are obsessed with stalking my posts and you are obsessed with bullying people in religion forums. Face it, you are obsessed with what you think are delusions and people you believe are deluded lol. You are obsessed with a topic you don't even believe exists! that's not a very fun life I would say, perhaps a new hobby since your "band" isn't keeping you busy enough in life?
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@Stephen
Did you just give away all your topics for the next 5 years lol? not much on surprises eh?
On a serious note, is it just the Bible you dislike? or are you this way with Theism as a whole? you seem to be getting increasingly hostile, whereas at first you seemed somewhat polite.
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@Goldtop
"preoccupy or fill the mind of (someone) continually, intrusively, and to a troubling extent."
Describes you perfectly, do you think people don't see that lol? hilarious...just take a look at my notifications box.
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@Paul
You got it, all matter is animated.There is no inanimate matter in our universe.Even empty space is literally boiling with activity all the time.
And if I may ask, what do you label that "activity" and why is it there? are you an atheist? can you explain to me what animation is precisely? what is it that animates and why?
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@BrutalTruth
Welcome to the forum!
I've been an atheist most of my life. And until just recently, I thought the majority of us were very sane, logical and intelligent, as opposed to theists whom are obviously delusional(the belief in the existence of that which cannot be known to exist is denial of reality, which is the textbook definition of delusion).
Since you obviously have chosen what you believe is the intellectual high grounds over others that may hold Theistic views, I'm going to assume you believe you are logical....if that's the case don't you think labeling Theists "delusional" is simply an opinion, one that you may change later? before you go claiming what can be known and what cannot be known and what you believe is a denial of "reality" why don't you debate those problems right here? not that you aren't, but that seems like an illogical, unfair position. Especially in creating your first topic, it's nice to know we have yet another atheist who comes to the table with the preconceived notion Theists are delusional. So if I may ask, what do you expect to get from coming here communicating with a bunch of deluded Theists? in case you were unaware, it's much more intellectually stimulating to discuss something with someone who is willing to leave their drama and preconceived beliefs at the door.
How could atheists stoop to the considerably low intellectual level of theists? To claim that gods don't exist is just as delusional as the claim that they do, as that claim too is denial of reality. Humans cannot prove nonexistence. A lack of evidence/proof is not evidence/proof for. That is a very basic principal of debate and indeed reality that I was sure most atheists were intelligent enough to understand, but it seems I was wrong. I'm almost ashamed to be one now.
Has it ever crossed your mind that some Theists may actually have legit reasons and experiences to believe God exists? since you claim you know nothing either way, why should everyone else be forced into that mold of ignorance? perhaps it is something you have yet to identify with or connect with but that is irrelevant really. Spirituality is the doorway to the knowledge of the Creator, which is the practical application and observations of the God worlds or spiritual reality. Despite what you claim, God is not unknowable and the facts about God are not unknowable. That is where your individual soul comes from, you were meant to know, you were meant to live in it, not be ignorant of it. You might not know it now, but it is your destiny that your soul will progress, in this life or another. But, it is much better to be flexible and open-minded now and never close the door on other options that could be possible.
If this is the definition atheists insist upon taking, then I refuse to call myself one, as I will not be seen as a delusional hypocrite by theists. My goal is to enlighten people, not build a glass house and throw stones.
Not to be rude, but there is nothing within an atheist ideology that is enlightening and I would be surprised if you shared anything I don't already know about atheism and that worldview. As a matter of fact, it is a severely limited mindset and very destructive to true potential, very restricting to your future experiences. If you think not, I'd be glad to tango with ya :)
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your honesty and understand your point but you have to understand it comes across as very disrespectful and condescending.
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@Stephen
That is because it actually states the they all thought he was mad and insane and unbalanced and had lost his mind. What gave the people and his own family reason to believe that?
No it doesn't say they "all" thought He was mad......I think you're missing what Ethan is saying, there was some murmuring among some people that they "thought" Jesus was out of His mind, and that is not because Jesus was out of His mind, it was because He was doing and saying things out of the norm. No, it does not say EVRYONE thought Jesus was crazy, nor does it say the authors thought so, it simply states there was a rumor going around, just as there were Pharisees and Sadducees that thought Jesus' power came from Demons. Anytime you have a super hero spiritual guy like Jesus you have the negative forces nipping at His toes.
So yes, in an age gone religiously mad itself there were those who thought Jesus was crazy, and as Ethan points out who cares? many people think spiritual things are crazy even now, so why would it be any different then? as well Jesus was teaching and preaching against the religious system that was in power, doing things that the ignorant religious authorities would not dare at the time. All in all, this would lead people to think one way or another about Jesus whether they were right or wrong and the Gospels writers added it the text. But I think we both know Jesus was not insane, out of the normal sure, but not mad. His actions and heart suggest otherwise, His teachings timeless and influential. As long as the soul exists (which they do) the teachings of Jesus will always resonate with other souls acknowledging a Creator and their passion towards that reality. You can never take that fact away, Jesus is both cherished/admired/loved and hated and it was so when He walked the earth.
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@Paul
I don't think it's so black and white TBH because it is thought that all matter is forms of energy and if that is the case no matter is truly inanimate because energy has intelligence behind it or rather energy is present with conscious activity. Then again, it depends on what you mean by matter and inanimate....you mean like a piece of plastic or a product of nature?
To make things simple I would say the answer is awareness. But then again, it's my belief that energy is not alone, but accompanied by conscious/awareness and that is why energy acts as intelligence, creating forms and physical bodies to a means end or to where they are currently (cosmic activity is first implemented by intelligent awareness through the manipulation of element and energy) . There is also a difference between a simple form or state of awareness and that of a conscious being or a soul. Both are aware, but one has higher level of sentience and also personality.....a creative ability...imagination, expression or whatever you wana call it that separates sentient beings from lower forms of life. Another difference would be an objects function, awareness behind energy simply acts as it should, following a pattern or blueprint whereas souls, or conscious beings have the ability to act as their own agent, and have their own will and desires.
Whatever the case is, the conscious soul or awareness is subject to the form of what it is possessing kinda like a seed that has a code or a matrix and it operates within that code. Same thing with awareness, it follows a code or pattern of what it is meant to do. Even though a conscious soul has their own will and desires and creative abilities each soul is subject to the anatomy of that body, brain and whatever layers are covering it. For example, if you were to leave the physical body and your soul was placed within the body of a monkey, your conscious experience would be limited and subject to that anatomy, to that brain so that all you perceive comes through that form. Sounds weird maybe, but let me know if you don't understand it.
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@secularmerlin
If I drop a pen it falls. If I drop a bowling ball it falls with exactly the same acceleration (adjusted for wind resistance) this demonstrates gravity. Is there anything that demonstrates the spiritual as conclusively as the pen and the bowling ball demonstrate gravity? If you provide such a demonstration I will have no choice but to accept your claims.
Yes, have you studied spirituality and determined the demonstration of the soul or are you just running your mouth? The reason I ask is because I find it hard to believe that anyone that has legitimately observed spirituality and has found no demonstration within it. Sorry but you have no grounds to stand on unless you can show that. Spirituality has been demonstrated for eons, the repeatability of spirituality has existed for ages.
The problem with testimonials is that I have heard many different often mutually exclusive claims about spirituality.
Like what? lets start there. What have you heard about the process of spirituality that differs from the next?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Give me one question you think I cannot answer, anything you can think of....if I don't answer it to your satisfaction you can ignore everything I've ever written. The reason I ask this is for the very reason of breaking your mold. That is not an insult, but at some point you will need to progress in your thinking if you wish to progress in spirituality. You may have no desire to do so, but you will always be left in the dark, I have no intention of letting that happen. So why don't we communicate?
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EVIDENCE-
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
something that furnishes proof : testimony
broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion.[1] This support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion. At the other extreme is evidence that is merely consistent with an assertion but does not rule out other, contradictory assertions, as in circumstantial evidence.
In law, rules of evidence govern the types of evidence that are admissible in a legal proceeding. Types of legal evidence include testimony, documentary evidence, and physical evidence.
TESTIMONY-
evidence or proof provided by the existence or appearance of something.
firsthand authentication of a fact : evidence
an outward sign
Evidence in support of a fact or assertion; proof.
a declaration of truth or fact
evidence testifying to something
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@Goldtop
Hard evidence, something that actually exists.
Again, you fail to realize what evidence consists of. When you realize what actually exists, then you can respond. Hard evidence would be that which has been shown for ages and ages without any dispute. You and your scientists can never dispute the nature of consciousness because it belongs to spirituality.
None, there is no evidence for spirituality, especially considering that word has yet to be fully defined and it can't be defined until there is evidence.
Spirituality is evidence dummy. That is what it is for. I don't care what you accept and what you reject. You are not me and I do not accept your nonsense and never will.
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@Goldtop
You are talking about yourself, you have no idea what evidence consists of and are lying about it.
So you are now claiming the definition of testimonials that I did not create is lying lol? no matter what you deny, testimonials will always be considered as evidence. You need to spend a little more time on your own language and stop trying to argue with me. If you can't follow your own language you have problems you need to face and address. I can't teach you to read.
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@Goldtop
Read that again. Here it is...
"I learn from application and observation and I examine evidence which includes testimonials, observations. What I am saying is....that testimonial experience is included as evidence. Anyone claiming otherwise is a liar, and don't know what evidence consists of."
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@Mopac
It is simply a matter of accepting that The Ultimate Reality refers to exactly what the meaning of those words refer to. What makes it difficult is taking it to mean anything but that. The problem has nothing to do with my inability to explain it, it has everything to do with not accepting what it means.
Try again. Those who accept what it means have accepted first the reality of it, not the definition of ultimate reality. That has to do with the reasoning behind the acceptance, for why they would even consider it. I know what the ultimate reality means because I have already accepted the logic behind it, or the evidence of there being a Creator. Ultimate reality means nothing to anyone but Theists.
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@secularmerlin
The point BTW, is for you not to settle for testimonial evidence. Rather to consider it and move forward with it. So, eventually you can obtain your own experiences.
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@secularmerlin
What evidence do you need beyond testimonials? what evidence is congruent with spirituality?
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@3RU7AL
What is your standard of "truth"?How do you determine if someone is lying when they describe something unverifiable, like for example, a dream?
I don't rely on what people testify to. I learn from application and observation and I examine evidence which includes testimonials, observations. What I am saying is....that testimonial experience is included as evidence. Anyone claiming otherwise is a liar, and don't know what evidence consists of.
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@Goldtop
Learn how to read, then get back to me.
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@secularmerlin
And that is baloney. It is called your opinion. You don't consider all forms of evidence. If you did, you would have never said that.
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@3RU7AL
What you are describing is gnosis.
It is called a testimony. You can label that testimony anything you want, but it is evidence. Whether it is personal it makes no difference.
Gnosis is not considered "evidence" because of its unverifiable (personal, private) nature.
Testimonies are considered evidence sir. Learn the English language.
Testimony-
evidence or proof provided by the existence or appearance of something.
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@secularmerlin
You don't start with a preconceived notion and make the evidence for that notion you start with the evidence and allow that to inform your understanding.
Welcome to your world precisely.
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@secularmerlin
And do you understand that evolution is compatible with creationism? Jane is correct, things evolve and that has no bearing on atheism or a materialistic worldview. The concept is universal, it has no preference for ideologies. Creation is a process, evolution of forms is a part of the creative process to get where we are currently.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
First things first.Hi my mate. Love you eternal.
Love you too.
Hey as a kid etrnl i attended my grandfathers funeral and the head church dude with the funny gown said to me that what i see infront of me is not my grandfather, it was like a shell. A vessel if you will.And the whatever was him part " Soul " is now resting in the heaven place.Ive I've never cried at a funeral since.
This is true, do you not know the physical body is a shell? what do you believe it is then? if not a shell, like that of a hermit crab?
I loveeeeee the idea of a place like you describe as a heaven. And as a Atheist i believe in a heaven "thing" joint , place.
I haven't described anything, you have yet to ask. I'll wait for that first.
But etrnlEtrnl?Janes asking a question here.So lets work through this one together. Ok?Ok? Lets do this.The questionDID GOD .Ok Now let's stop here for a second." DID GOD " jane asks.DID GOD?I reckon we've done enough work here now to give jane a sufficient answer / opinion on her post.Did God?I dunno.I do not no if God did what he did to limit our awareness.
First of all your awareness has to be limited from the All to experience something from an individual observation point of view in creation. Otherwise you are observing from a point of view where nothing in life is relevant to you, you don't want that. That is why you are a limited soul, who thinks they are experiencing from a wee little body and has no idea why they are here lol. It's a cruel game but it works for God, works for you and I. Eventually you will progress from that point of view, as well as your experiences. But all in due time apparently.
JaneJane? 'Shrugs shoulders'The answer to ya post is ( Dunno )It's just, dunno..
I know you don't know, that is why I supply answers. Then you are supposed to expand on those answers so your knowledge doesn't fall by the way side. Rather you understand it, absorb it and apply it.
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@3RU7AL
Everything that takes on a physical form in creation has to first have an awareness to do so. All cells included have a consciousness to them.
However, awareness in and of itself is not always a controlled event in creation. Sometimes it has to be recurved because awareness can take off as it responds to the physical environment.
"Molecules are made up of atoms that are held together by chemical bonds. These bonds form as a result of the sharing or exchange of electrons among atoms."
Even the atom has an awareness, so yes they are alive. Would you say they are not?
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@Mopac
That is what God is, and that is how the concept is understood in theology.
I understand that completely...But, and I say BUT...how does that apply to those who have yet to accept God exists? why can't truth exist independent of God? if God never existed does that mean no truth ever existed? how do you propose to prove that one?
The reason I can't compromise on this is because any type of compromise on this literally undermines all of theology.
But you are doing absolutely nothing to support the theory, you're just regurgitating it.
No, The Ultimate Reality is what God means. It doesn't exist in God, because that doesn't make sense, and God doesn't exist in it because then there would be an existence greater than God.
I know what it means, I'm not an atheist.
And what I am asserting here is Orthodox Theology. It is correct and true.
Don't deny that, however I have accepted God exists. You don't seem to register that fact.
All atheiist arguments against God are contingent on making God something else. That is why compromise only serves to aide in reinforcing the atheists superstitions.
You've given them no reason to believe truth cannot exist independent of God, period. Maybe the people in front of your pulpit accept it, but you are in the jungle baby. Time to wake up and get in the argument.
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@3RU7AL
Science can only answer "how", it can never answer "why".Certainly "intelligent design" might be "true", but it is not within the realm of science.That's all I'm trying to say.
Then that would be very intelligent of you. This is true in so many ways very good, I wish more people would consider that.
Abiogenesis is about science and not metaphysics/gnosis.
But is it true? did conscious awareness and living creatures arise through a materialistic process or did energy take on forms in creation because it first had an awareness to do so? it's no secret that there exists material forms, but why do those forms exist, why does anything transform into a living thing? or does living things only come from living things, or that living consciousness takes on forms.....meaning does all that exists exist because there was first a living reality?
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Guys, there is a process by which the Creator establishes universes, planets and creatures that survive on those planets. The bodies that inhabit the planet takes time to create them to where they are currently. Call that process whatever you want, but please consider the Creator in that process rather than believing that process exists independent of God. Why does any process exist? ask yourself that, why deny God in the process? or why not consider God in that process?
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@Mopac
You keep repeating this because you have accepted God as truth, and ultimate reality. Atheists don't deny truth per say, because they have not accepted the existence of God, so truth to them exists independent of God. In other words truth doesn't have to exist because God exists, there can be truth independent of God. I am perplexed you haven't figured this out, or why you keep repeating it. I'm not denying what you are saying, because I have accepted the Creator exists and therefore it is obvious to me....that ultimate reality and ultimate truth exist within God, or is God. The atheist has no reason to accept truth as being God unless you come up with a reason for them to do so other than saying it.
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@Mopac
What do you mean? you're not in the way. If you don't want to discuss it that's fine.
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