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@Swagnarok
Not to insult your intelligence because you may be aware already, but it is a common misconception that fruit sugar is to be avoided but did you know the difference between simple and complex sugars? fructose and glucose ext ect? you don't want to avoid sugars from fruit they are not the same as what you would find it processed foods, cakes and candy....here check these links out so you know there is no fear in eating fruits or raisins. Raisins are higher in sugar content more so than grapes but again, make sure you know the difference between bad and good sugars and how the body utilizes them.
"One of the common myths about sugar is that just because it’s “sugar”, it’s automatically bad for you.
It doesn’t matter if we’re talking about processed corn syrup, white sugar or whole food sugar found in whole fruits. Sugar is bad!
Well, there is a big difference between eating refined sugar that you’ll find in soda drinks, candy bars and processed syrups, and those from a whole fruit.
A meal of fruit provides you with a complete nutrient package.
It comes with its vitamins, minerals, fiber, natural sugars and phytonutrients, including antioxidants and all these work synergistically to help your body maintain optimal health.
Compare this to junk calories of basically just refined sugar with no fiber, antioxidants, vitamins and minerals and you are setting yourself up for ill health and disease.
So the bottom line is the sugar from whole fruits is good – it’s healthy and science now proves that the more fruit you eat in your diet, the better it is for your health."
"There is no need to avoid sugars that are naturally found in whole foods, such as fruits, vegetables and dairy products. These foods also contain nutrients, fiber and water, which counter any of their negative effects.
The harmful health effects associated with sugar consumption are due to the high amount of added sugar in the typical Western diet."
"“The natural sugars in fruit are processed a bit differently by your body, because the fiber in the fruit minimizes the sugars’ impact on blood sugar levels,” says Nancy Z. Farrell, R.D.N., an adjunct professor of nutrition at Germanna Community College in Fredericksburg, Va. “In addition, you also get vitamins, minerals, and other healthy nutrients.”
"If you compare the effects of a diet restricting fructose from both added sugars and fruit to one just restricting fructose from added sugars, the diet that kept the fruit did better. People lost more weight with the extra fruit present than if all fructose was restricted. Only industrial, not fruit fructose intake, was associated with declining liver function and high blood pressure. Fructose from added sugars was associated with hypertension; fructose from natural fruits is not."
"Regarding your health, the real difference is where the sugar comes from. While your body can't distinguish the difference between the source of sugar once it's broken down and absorbed, the food from which the sugar originated has a huge impact on your overall health. This is due to the nature other nutrients that may be in the food you consumed.
Since complex carbohydrates come from plant-based foods, we know that those foods also contain a plethora of beneficial nutrients in addition to their carbs, including vitamins, minerals and antioxidants.
The complex carbs are broken down into simple sugars. However, some simple sugars that are added to foods don't give you any beneficial nutrients. For example, fructose can be found in candies, soda, and other sweets lacking in health-promoting nutrients, but fructose is also present in fruit.
Even though both foods contain fructose, fruit is obviously a healthier choice because it's not solely made up of simple carbohydrates -- it also contains fiber, vitamins and antioxidants. The fiber in fruit helps slow the digestion of carbs, which is why your blood sugar doesn't spike as much after eating fiber-filled fruit like it does when you gulp down a soda or candy bar."
"As mentioned above, the BIG difference is in how the sugar is packaged. While added sugars are empty calories that provide no additional nutritional value (besides energy) whatsoever, and they are most commonly found in highly processed foods. On the other hand, fruits are packaged with much more than naturally-occurring sugar, including water, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants (e.g., phytonutrients), and fiber. Fruits are nutrient-dense (the opposite of cakes and candies). Fiber is vital in that it also slows down digestion, so you don’t get the insulin spike and subsequent crash caused by candies, cakes, and similar sweets."
"Even with their relatively high sugar content, raisins have been found to help control blood sugar levels. And in one study, it was shown that snacking on raisins three times a day — rather than other common snacks with similar calorie counts — can help lower blood pressure."
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@bsh1
I neither believe in God's existence nor God's nonexistence, and I am not particularly well-schooled in theological topics, so perhaps I am not the best person to comment on this question. Those caveats known, it seems to me that the question of God's existence is fundamentally different from, say, the existence of gnomes. When people ask whether God exists, they are asking whether existence or the universe has an origin instantiated in some being or force. The arguments which attempt to demonstrate or trace God's existence are akin, in some sense, to working backwards to the starting point of the celestial map. Understood in this quasi-geographical, temporal sense, I think we can differentiate gnomes from God. God is the originator, gnomes postdate the start of existence or the universe. Gnomes are unprovable because there is no quality of them which is independently analyzable and potentially provable. This is not the case with God, as the question of whether there is or is not an origin is potentially provable (and at least arguable).
Very balanced post, great job. People don't think about their claims and comparisons much at all when they wish to categorize Creation/God with silly absurdities. They haven't thoroughly finished their homework and what it means to consider an intelligent, conscious first originator. To them it is absurd to believe in a Creator, so they believe and label it along with other things they think are nonsense. It is very unfortunate in all honesty.
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@secularmerlin
Understood that's cool. Interestingly enough, it just so happens that the two categories that interest me the most are spirituality and health. Perhaps that is due to how I am naturally, I both care about really important things in life and I have a huge heart for people and their well-being. Sometimes it may come across as aggressive but it is just passion TBH.
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@Outplayz
Hey my friend we've been over this before. You guys can eat whatever the hell you like it is your bodies and your health. Nothing in this thread I posted is harmful, rather extremely beneficial and that would be my only intent. This is not an opinion but pure chemistry, fruits have many beneficial properties over many food sources and is an excellent, superior choice of foods for humans.
I was a meat eater most of my life up until about 6 years ago so this is not something I just post for fun or to be an azz, what I say here is from experience. The difference in vitality and health with a raw fruit and veggie diet is not even comparable but again, I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything only putting the information out there for people to have something to fall back on, a sure fix and a sure triumph. BTW, if someone has leaky gut syndrome the very worst thing they could do is consume an acidic diet, which would only add more deterioration. With something like that, fruits would be a perfect option due to its chemistry and the alkaline nature. I find more than anything is the lack of discipline when eating, people want to eat what they want to eat, they don't realize their problems and health crisis come from the very things they shove in their mouths. So it is every man for himself and I ain't trying to change that, only drop information in peoples minds that they may use later, or when they realize they are in serious trouble. Let your food be your medicine.
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@secularmerlin
Are you serious? wow, I didn't post that link to prove anything to you about spirituality, but like I said, if anything here interests you follow that link. If you have any ailment or physical problems check the videos list and see if there is something that applies to your situation. If you are as healthy as a bug, just keep it in the back of your head and know there is a decent source for you to get well in any health crisis. Let your food be your medicine.
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@secularmerlin
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@secularmerlin
"But scientists disagree on what drove primates to evolve big brains in the first place. Now, a new study comes to an unexpected conclusion: fruit."
"Primates that eat leaves have to lie around for hours, with all their energy going toward digestion."
"Eating fruit, on the other hand, offers an animal a jolt of calories in an easy-to-digest package. In primates, the main beneficiary of all that newly available energy is the brain."
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I'm not arguing for a diet that is primarily vegetarian, rather fruitarian.
It is a superior food source and I'm only gifting you with power and health. Try it and replace a few meals with just fruits and see what the difference is. You may be pleasantly surprised. Because all in all, this will be your refuge and healing in any given situation. Give me a week of raw foods, primarily fruits but you can add some salads here and there.....and I will show you the most vitality you have had since you can remember. Just 5 days, and see which one of us has the right information and correct food source for humans.
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@secularmerlin
Read that again.
was whether their diets were primarily leaves or fruit
Fruit is superior to vegetation. Can you show how fruits are NOT superior diet for humans with actual research and not just claims or opinions? I can supply link after link of how fruits are superior food sources in nutrition and what the HUMAN body thrives on.
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@Goldtop
That is not healthy,
Lol, how about you try it and find out for yourself what is "healthy". There is nothing unhealthy about raw foods both veggies and fruits. That is absurd.
it is recommended to have 2-4 servings of fruit per day ALONG with other foods such as meat and veggies.
Do you always believe what you read without observation? I challenge you to try it and report back with what you experience. That same food pyramid tells you to consume dairy and meat products, grains and beans along with starch products.....which can be shown to be very unhealthy. Things are not always what they appear, you have to observe things for yourself.
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@Mdh2000
Lets consolidate this to one thread since all the same questions are being asked and answered over and over. I'll meet you in the other thread as all these things you keep asking have been covered. If there is anything here I did not cover in the other thread just bring it up specifically and I'll answer it. Perhaps you could pick your very best inquiries in one post and we can go from there, as of now we have many posts all involving the same content. I'd rather stick with one inquiry until you are content with the answer. So let me know in the other thread which of these things you want to cover and finalize. So far, you have repeated the same things I've answered. The brain producing things outside itself has been thoroughly covered, you haven't accepted the answer as of yet. How can consciousness experience anything outside the body and brain even after brain death if our experience is confined to the brain? anyways you can deal with this in the other thread where I supplied a legit show series which shows this accurately. Documented cases and correlating medical facts.
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@Mdh2000
You would first have to consider the evidence available. Which is what I've been saying, you have an extraordinarily vast body of spiritual facts at your finger tips that correlate with the nature of God. It is not proof, but certainly we can VERIFY that a Creator exists by looking at the overwhelming evidence. From there, you can begin to ask for information and weigh it.
As of yet I've not got a single piece of evidence for a creator. I have a lot of claims, but no evidence. I'd be happy to take a look at your vast body of evidence for a creator.
Go back and read the definition of evidence, and perhaps you will change your tune about the false claim "there is no single piece of evidence" baloney. Claims, which are testimonials are not just claims, they are an aspect of evidence. Like if you first-hand experience something that you wanted to convey. That is called a testimony.
It would of course be circular reasoning to say 'we can verify spiritual evidence because it correlates with god's nature' and then also argue that spiritual evidence proves a god exists.
Wrong, we have both evidence as well personal experience which can be cross referenced with many sources, which is involved in spirituality......which is the practical application and observation of what actually exists beyond the physical perceptions. Circular reasoning would be to say that because something says something it is true....that is not what I have stated. I said that what is said can be verified both by personal experience and cross referencing.
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@Mdh2000
How can you be sure that it's not because it's simply a product of your mind?
We've discussed this but you have yet to acknowledge it. Your mind does not produce your experiences because it is not a being or an entity. It doesn't produce experiences, it categorizes them. The mind is not a conscious entity, it's a storage compartment.
Perhaps you are unable to accept my answer on verification on this because perhaps you just refuse to accept spirituality/religion as a means of verification or that it is possible? that would be the same as rejecting science as a means of verifying what we want to learn about the natural world....which would be silly, likewise it's silly to reject the study of the spiritual as a means to verify what facts or observations exist about God or spirituality.
No, it's because you move straight to verifying traits about them, without having ever addressed how you verify god exists. Or that any spiritual experience you have isn't the product of the brain. The trouble with looking to spiritual/religious texts to verify external consciousness/god is that they're the source of the claim. Not one thing you have discussed is able to dismiss the possibility that what you experience hasn't been the product of your brain, you haven't even managed to make points that show it must be less likely than your position.
This post in and of itself tells me that everything I'm writing is for no use. Go back and read what I wrote in every question of yours and this is thoroughly answered. I'm not going to address the product of the brain anymore until you recognize my answers and respond to them directly. I said that if consciousness were produced by the brain it would be impossible to experience consciousness away from the physical body, and you have yet to argue that point. Only keep repeating "why would it not be a product of the brain". So it is not me that hasn't answered the riddle, it is you.
I've answered this several times now, if the brain produced consciousness there would be no conscious experience away from the brain, no NDE's and no spiritual experiences. It's a no-brainer, all experience would be confined only to a brain and that is not the case in human experiences as a whole. NDE's are specifically the consciousness traveling OUTSIDE the body and brain after brain death, that is only possible due to the soul, and the fact it is not produced by the brain or mind.
Again, I shall ask. Can you show a case where someone was confirmed brain dead and came back? Where they had absolutely no brain function (not simply the lack of higher brain function) and then came back? To my knowledge there's no such case. If there were then the legal system would need to change drastically. As for the consciousness traveling outside the body, how do you know this isn't just an effect of higher brain function stopping? Studies have shown time and again that brain activity spikes at the moment of death, this would be more than capable of accounting for NDE's as would the cessation of higher brain function (not the same as the cessation of all brain function, which is considered irreversible). You keep saying it must be what you propose, but never address in any meaningful way why it can't be what other propose.
As for the consciousness traveling outside the body, how do you know this isn't just an effect of higher brain function stopping? Studies have shown time and again that brain activity spikes at the moment of death, this would be more than capable of accounting for NDE's as would the cessation of higher brain function
Because just before and at death there IS a spike in brain activity, because the soul is experiencing something it normally does not. Aagin this is equivalent to measuring activity on an electrical board and thinking that the board produces electricity.
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@Mdh2000
Again, why dismiss the possibility that the human brain is on some levels very similar and so it creates similar experiences under similar circumstances?
You are the one dismissing the possibilities and assuming things are not what they are, not me. So I ask you the same question, why dismiss the experiences as they are what they are? sorry, but I've explained why consciousness can't be experienced away from the brain if the brain produces it, you are the one not accepting things at face value, and that is only do to your reluctance to accept any spiritual transcendent reality.
Also, what about the vast variation within the different spiritual experiences people have (lets say NDE's)?
Because the spiritual worlds are so vast, they contain many different types of experiences and I explained why in my responses. However, the same experience of leaving the body and what they experience are very congruent. The soul leaves the physical body the same for every person. However if I sent 100 people across a country they would report back with all different experiences of the same land. Same with spiritual experiences and NDE's....while the science of consciousness leaving the body is identical in every case, what the soul experiences could vary because it depends on where the soul goes and what they are destined for.
It would be commonsense that spirituality wouldn't exist if the Divine didn't exist, it reflects its own purpose…..just like science wouldn't exist if the physical world did not exist.
This isn't commonsense at all. To give an example of reasons spirituality could exist without an actual divine. We are story telling creatures, we experience things that we don't understand, so we frame them in terms we do understand, gods, spirituality. While I'm not going to assert that's what happens (I don't claim to know), it certainly isn't unreasonable, we don't like not knowing and experience has shown me time and again that people are good at tricking themselves.
Thanks for the assertion/opinion. Would you like to discuss why those things actually exist? you can assume they're stories but that is not going to help your case any. I've given you reasoning why spirituality is not tricking oneself but at some point you will have to recognize my answers. Spirituality does not produce what the individual wants or feels, it's the opposite of that. So there is no tricking oneself, sorry but spirituality is an objective reality not a subjective one.
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@Mdh2000
This assumes that there is a 'divine' with which these texts can correlate
Again, I'm NEVER assuming anything. These little word plays of yours are getting in the way and becoming a problem. I show you I'm not assuming things by giving you explanations and reasoning. But you have to consider my reasoning at face value if it makes sense and stop with the assumptions and ask anything you need to. My argument is that the spiritual would not exist if the Divine did not exist, you're not arguing the point you're just claiming it is an assertion.
This is actually what I mean when I say you're running before you can stand. What evidence is there that god exists?
Read what evidence consists of, which includes testimonial evidence and not just physical object evidence. There is no running, you just don't accept what evidence consists of. When you do, then we can have a decent discussion.
If all spirituality rests upon the existence of god, then lets move to that discussion.
That's what I have been pushing for lol. But first you have to concede what are facts, what is true. As of yet you are still denying there is in fact evidence for God that is congruent with the nature of God.
Firstly how do you define god?
Creator, formless, omnipresent conscious reality. The first cause of all that exists.....the originator of both the created worlds and the soul. This can work as a basic understanding. If you want to know specifics just ask.
how can you know there is experience beyond the physical world?
From evidence as well as my own experiences. If you haven't got that far I'm questioning whether or not you are reading what I supply.
How can you be sure that what you think you're observing beyond the physical world isn't just a product of your mind? That you're not creating the worlds and experiences you have?
I've answered this plainly. Spirituality produces that which transcends the physical sense perception and that of the mind. It opposes those things, because it is an objective reality not a subjective one.
you're not arguing the point you're just claiming it is an assertion.
I've given you the reasons, you aren't absorbing them.
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@Mdh2000
Such as? Give me some examples. From my experience we have a vast bodies of claims and suppositions, but I've yet to see any evidence of a god entity existing. I'm quite happy to discuss claims of evidence if you'd like. This is circular reasoning. You're confirming the existence of divine by using the collection sources that correlates with the nature of the divine. Essentially the flaw is that if there is no divine then the texts correlate with nothing. You're missing the first step of verifying there is a divine.
First lets get something straight because most atheists I've discussed with actually have no idea what evidence consists of because they are used to thinking that we have to observe a physical object to collect "evidence" for it. This is true only for physical objects but it is in no way the boundaries of what evidence consists of. Lets supply a definition and see if we can agree what we mean by "evidence". Because your claim that you have yet to see any evidence of God is false, as testimonials is most certainly a part of evidence. So there is more evidence than you could ever know what to do with in the spiritual arena. Anyone who claims there is "no evidence" has no idea what they are saying. Examples of evidence would be the vast body of testimonial facts and experiences. This includes the whole of spirituality and all experiences associated with it. They may be "claims" because they are made by individuals but testimonials are a part of evidences and that is something you cannot deny.
Evidence-
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
A thing or set of things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment:
The means by which an allegation may be proven, such as oral testimony, documents, or physical objects.
broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion.[1] This support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion.
In law, rules of evidence govern the types of evidence that are admissible in a legal proceeding. Types of legal evidence include testimony, documentary evidence,[2] and physical evidence.
Not a single one of these definitions contradict or show there is no evidence for a Creator, quite the opposite if you know how to read.
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@SkepticalOne
What avoidance? what you stated are not arguments they are your personal opinions, which of what you stated would you like me to reply to specifically? I would appreciate you not asserting things about my intentions and efforts. You did not show any effort, so what effort do I need to make? It's your opinion spirituality is subjective and not objective....so your question in the middle is based on a misconception, you believing its all subjective....and your last statement/assertion is based on you thinking it is subjective lol, I mean what is there to work with here?
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@SkepticalOne
If you wish to compare Creation or spirituality to an absurdity that is your choice and opinion but you lose out in the end. However it's only a perception, there is nothing absurd about accepting God as Creator of our world it is perfectly rational, unlike believing in "fairies and gnomes" people have reasons and experience for their beliefs or should, as for me I can expand on anything I say or write with more than my own opinion. All aspects about God and the soul and the higher conscious realities can be articulated, explained through commonsense/logic and verified/shown to exist through correlating evidences and sources so there is no good comparison other than your own perspective that Theism is silly and absurd and compared to what worldview is it silly anyways!?
There is absolutely no realistic reason to compare Creation with little silly creatures and absurdities, everything about the study of God is well documented and well articulated. Theism has philosophical strength, its theories counted and weighed for generations......contains a vast amount of evidences and correlating sources to verify....has unmatched numbers of testimonial evidence than any other topic. It is as strong a belief as any other....what is so special about atheism that you think it is such a superior belief? there isn't a "lack" of evidence, there's a lack of one aspect of evidence and that is due to the nature of God and spirituality but the evidences that correlate with its nature are overwhelming to be modest.
So yes, it is very unfortunate you lump Creation in with stupid, immature absurdities when there is no need or justification for it.
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@SkepticalOne
question whether there is such a thing as a 'spiritual facts'. The fact that the existence of spiritual facts can be seriously questioned means, at the very least, they are subjective.This begs the question: Why should subjective experiences be considered as evidence shaping our understanding of our shared reality - especially when these experiences are often incompatible with one another?The reasonable answer is that without the ability to validate and/or verify these 'facts', they should not be considered evidence in any meaningful objective way.
These sound like all opinions, did you have any particular argument other than you won't trust spirituality for no real reason? spirituality is not subjective because it is not dependent upon personal feelings and opinions, quite the opposite really and the process and cultivation of spirituality opposes that, it does not allow an individual to cultivate based on their own perceptions and opinions.
How would you know what spiritual facts are subjective? rather than OBJECTIVE. I've written several times now how verification works, it's no different than verifying something through science. It's your opinion and choice that none of it exists objectively but that is unfortunate. You are the only one that can change your opinions or consider another possibility. I can only make sense of it for you.
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@Mdh2000
Care to share these spiritual experiences so we can discuss their means of how they are verified and how we can determine they fit your world view better than a materialists world view?
The means of how they are verified have been thoroughly covered, hopefully you get what I've been saying about it thus far, the same way you verify something through science is the way you would verify something spiritual in nature which would be through a congruent method of study or source. My experiences include encounters with spiritual beings, these are obviously not your average human, and while the form is similar the spirit body is much different at sight than a physical body, spirit beings can also be perceived without visually seeing them if you are used to operating on that level. So spiritual beings do not fit a materialistic worldview. Spiritual based experiences take place at another state of conscious awareness, and so my experiences are varying....I've had spiritual visions and insights from applying things I perceived at the soul level or spiritual level, things that transcend the normal physical experiences. There is an application process to spirituality, because you get involved and begin to apply things to yourself that are applicable and you observe the effects. None of my spiritual observations fit with a materialistic view, and neither do religions and their spiritual observations, this should be pretty obvious but don't take that as an insult. I would say the average spiritual experience is very different than the human experience, and it is not confined to the physical world and its limitations.
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@Mdh2000
What exactly do you mean by 'our physical sense perceptions'?
I mean precisely what you experience just through the physical body alone.....taste, tough, hear, smell ect ect….spirituality transcends that observation because it exists at a different frequency and vibration of what the body experiences. And so you to learn this and practice getting outside those limitations.
Also, we come back to the question of verification.
Perhaps you are unable to accept my answer on verification on this because perhaps you just refuse to accept spirituality/religion as a means of verification or that it is possible? that would be the same as rejecting science as a means of verifying what we want to learn about the natural world....which would be silly, likewise it's silly to reject the study of the spiritual as a means to verify what facts or observations exist about God or spirituality.
As for NDE's we come back to my question on how we can know the difference we'd expect between a situation where the brain creates consciousness and the consciousness exists outside the brain. Considering the large spike of activity in an NDE, why would it not fit the brain creates consciousness position as well as your own?
I've answered this several times now, if the brain produced consciousness there would be no conscious experience away from the brain, no NDE's and no spiritual experiences. It's a no-brainer, all experience would be confined only to a brain and that is not the case in human experiences as a whole. NDE's are specifically the consciousness traveling OUTSIDE the body and brain after brain death, that is only possible due to the soul, and the fact it is not produced by the brain or mind.
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@Mdh2000
To begin I would like to know how we can verify there is a creator. Then I'll begin asking for information on said creator.
You would first have to consider the evidence available. Which is what I've been saying, you have an extraordinarily vast body of spiritual facts at your finger tips that correlate with the nature of God. It is not proof, but certainly we can VERIFY that a Creator exists by looking at the overwhelming evidence. From there, you can begin to ask for information and weigh it.
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@Mdh2000
Here we are running before we've shown we can stand. How do we verify there is a divine for spirituality and religion to correlate with?
I'm not running anywhere and I will answer your questions as we go and show you how they stand, but give me a chance to expand on some things if you need me to, these questions involve a lot of dynamics so I'm not going to write everything I could, it's already getting really long so I have to keep things short and simple yet precise. Spirituality is directly related to the Divine, this again is commonsense as the knowledge we have correlates with the nature of God and wouldn't be there without the Divine. The "spiritual" exists because first God exists, otherwise there is no experience beyond the physical world. In order to "verify" there must first be an application.....of types, or an observation or inquiry.
Experiences with the Divine take place on the inner level or the soul level itself and so these revelations are not something you perceive with any of the physical body, there is no object so we verify our own experiences by cross referencing with other sources that are congruent with the same nature of the experience as I said before. We actually do this with all our observations......hey, "I saw a tree" (personal observation)….now I want to learn about it, make sure I really saw it lol.....make sure other people see trees ect ect….so then we learn about the tree through what we collectively observe about trees, same thing with spirituality and God.....we say hey, I observed something or perceived something outside the normal perception....now I can take that observation to vast body of spiritual facts and correlate as well as learn about it thereby verifying it.
It would be commonsense that spirituality wouldn't exist if the Divine didn't exist, it reflects its own purpose…..just like science wouldn't exist if the physical world did not exist.
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@Mdh2000
Scientific knowledge, science itself however isn't you are correct. However, it is a means of studying reality that seems to get pretty good results (I'm unaware of a better method though I'd be very interested in hearing suggestions).
Did you not read my explanation, it was in the part you didn't include here? I said it is certainly needed, both studies are needed to reflect the truth about one or the other as it pertains to them. It does have good results about learning the physical world, I already acknowledge that. However it is unable to reach what we are discussing, this is where we look to spirituality and now we have the correct method of study and observations. That IS my suggestion, because it would be the accurate source to reflect any facts about the spiritual.
This is what I wrote...
"This is why we look at other methods of study that are capable of reaching where science cannot, this would be the arena and vast body of facts and evidences called spirituality/religion, this is the method of study that correlates with the nature of the Divine."
And so I'll get to your question about it below...
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@Mdh2000
Yet how does it show its answers are correct? What are the means of verification? Again how would things be different if the consciousness were the product of the brain? Also, what can you observe that transcends the physical? How do you observe it? Honestly, you seem to be either avoiding or unable to answer my questions. I've asked what your observations are, how you verify that your observations are accurate and why they would require your worldview to be true to occur, so far you haven't answered any of these questions.
That's because you haven't let me respond to those questions lol, I just posted some answers a little bit ago, goodness at least wait for me to explain somethin!! you've asked me some of these multiple times before I had time to respond to them individually. I've answered three of the above questions in another post so I'll focus on the ones that are new.
Yet how does it show its answers are correct?
I actually answered this when I mentioned cross referencing. It's also observation and experience, how does that NOT show the answers are correct. You seem to be under the impression this is all just an assumption and I've made it clear it is not.
What are the means of verification?
Well certainly not a science experiment in a lab that is for sure, so again this is personal observation and cross-referencing which gives it strength. Spirituality is repeatable as a practice, that's because it's an actual reality that exits and can be learned from. Personally, I verify my own experiences with other sources and references and this is about the extent of what can be done with the nature of it....being "outside" or away from the physical perception so you have to follow that fact all the way down to what would apply to us and how.
Again how would things be different if the consciousness were the product of the brain?
This one I answered, it's commonsense. There would be no experience outside the physical brain and body, period.
Also, what can you observe that transcends the physical?
Many things because it's an incredibly diverse reality/realities. People, places, things or any facts pertaining to it....all the things you would observe or could observe in the physical only spirituality must be cultivated you just can't look around with your physical eyes and expect to manifest anything. You have to awaken that part of yourself through participation, nevertheless anything within the God-worlds or multiverse can be experienced, but this would be called soul travel and you have to learn how to operate outside the body. But other than that your soul will pull back to the very first reality that is beyond this one when you leave the physical body, that universe is called the astral plane. There are multiple planes or multiverses that can be experienced depending on the individual.
How do you observe it?
It depends on what it is you want to observe or learn. There are spiritual principles that can be applied to the self, spiritual practices that you can do to help loosen the grip of your focus on squarely the physical perception. Basically you can move your attention or awareness away from your body and observe from another point of observation but the point is for you to get involved and learn from it. Since your soul has layers that cover it called subtle bodies or spirit body you are able to observe or experience through any one of those layers just like you observe through the physical layer currently.....these "layers" correlate with an existing plane or universe which exist parallel to this one. So as you leave each layer you experience with the correlating world and the first layer outside this one would be what most people pull back to which is the astral but this is only the first layer…..this is how people have spiritual experiences and why they have NDE's ect ect….because the soul can literally leave the body at any time either through death or through practice regardless of beliefs.
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@Mdh2000
The question is simple. I am asking you to consider the alternative position (the key to open-mindedness I think), if the brain produced the consciousness how would what we observe be different? When you answer include how you can know this answer is correct. If you cannot know that there would be a difference, then assuming either position is true seems pointless and counter-productive to learning truth.
You don't have to get me to consider I've already said I look at all sides, examine all claims. I'm presenting you with an extension, or an alternative, there is no alternative you can give me or present me I'm already aware of it and reject it based on many things. Now, It's up to you whether or not you think my explanations and answers are worth looking into....or not. But I challenge you to remain open about this alternative and just consider it like I consider all sides. I've given you enough information for you to consider and I believe I've answered that question above so I'll let you reply on it. On another note we don't need to assume anything, because I can show you the science behind this, this is not some assumption it's based on observation and experience and a time tested wealth of knowledge.
The difference as I explained in the other post is that consciousness cannot be experienced away from the brain or the body if it were produced by the brain.That's pretty much commonsense, your experience would be confined to only your brain and there would be no conscious experience away from it....but human experience and as well as my own dictate that it is certainly true that consciousness is not produced by the brain OR the mind. There is no real reason for me to reject my own observations and logic when all things line up and fit together, that would be defeating the purpose of finding truth in all facets of it so there is nothing I'll present that is counter-productive.
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@Mdh2000
Supposition, why do you assert the mind wouldn't be able to observe itself?
The mind is useless without an observer, it's not a being but a tool, a "place" and nothing more than a storage area really. It's not the mind observing itself it's YOU observing the mind that is a big difference so you will have to lean towards common sense, if the mind is not a being then it can't produce you, rather you are looking through the mind which is another subtle layer over your soul, it's like your own little dark room lol, but again it's just a room not an entity. The mind produces thoughts and categorizes things based on emotions…..it's much like a library where you can enter and you can exit, you are not the mind you are observing what the mind produces not the other way around. I'll get to these inquiries one at a time if ya don't mind, that way we don't run out of writing space.
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@3RU7AL
Yeah I'm going to ask about the problem, I don't want this old man following me around making false claims and slandering me for another 5 years. Hopefully we won't have to worry about it for long. This place doesn't need that kind of trashy behavior. I ignore em 99% of the time, but it looks like old habits die hard, telling other members lies about me, real mature.
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@Mdh2000
What experiences?
Spiritual type/based experiences......encounters with spiritual beings, spiritual visions and observation from applying spiritual principles and practices and what those results produce.
How do you determine that any look beyond the physical gleans accurate results, rather than just imaginings produced by the brain? The ability to be able to determine such a difference is the crux of this entire discussion. It's why I ask how things would be different if the brain produced consciousness. If we can verify that the states would produce different results and then determine which result actually is, then we'd have reason to believe one over the other. So far you've presented nothing that does that.
Number one, consciousness (the soul) can be experienced outside the physical body literally, not figuratively....outside meaning outside the brain and away from the material body. You see this evidence with NDE's and spiritual experiences, it's the same every single time.....the soul is capable of leaving the body after brain death and there is a show series that has documented cases after case of NDE's with up to an hour or more after brain death. All these testimonies of people can tell you exactly what was happening and what people were saying while they are far away from their physical body and brain, physical eyes shut, no responses. Your consciousness, if it were produced by the brain, would be impossible to be away and travel from the body. However the soul can travel freely outside the body and it has been shown for thousands of years and I can show you how this works and why people have spiritual encounters. There is a science to spirituality and the soul and it fits perfectly with what we see and the extent of human experiences so there is no real reason to keep opposing it for an inferior belief.
In spirituality it's much like a deep self reflection/evaluation and cultivation and often times more than not it does not reflect what the applicants mind and brain normally produce, part of the process of spirituality is learning and observing the difference between the actual conscious soul and the physical perceptions and material body and they produce different things entirely, and that is because a spiritual reality exists outside the physical perceptions and is not dependent on our human bodies, brains or mind. There are actual realities that exist at a different frequency and vibration of energies than we perceive in human form and the bodies that correlate with these realms are called subtle bodies or spirit body. They exist at a much higher and finer vibration than the sluggish, heavy physical body but your actual consciousness and where it originated is both formless and pure conscious awareness and so you have these coverings to confine your experience to any particular universe. You believe it's this universe and that brain of yours is why you exist as a conscious being, lol it's a dirty trick but it's like this for a reason so that you can experience life anew as many times as you wish. But hen you die you're consciousness will pull away from the physical body like a suction and at that point you will know indefinitely but most people aren't aware that they don't have to wait to have experiences that transcend the body. This is what spirituality is for and why it exists.
If the brain alone produced consciousness then I believe/know that it would then be impossible that a soul or our conscious being (I call observer) could travel outside the brain and see outside our material form. And I'm not talking about dreaming or anything like that, I mean more real than what you think is real when you look outside your physical eyes. In practice you can pull your consciousness back away from the mind, body or brain literally and observe from that point of view. This observation point is nothing like would you are limited to looking out of eyes or what you perceive by the brain, it's a much larger 360 degree view point and that is because the soul is formless, it's simply aware and has no extremities and likewise the same with the Creator who is omnipresent.
What it comes down to for me, is like I already said.....I'm looking at all sides of the equation and one theory is simply superior to the other and accounts for much more of what we can observe, so I'm not going to limit myself and believe something that is a misconception. Right now, there's nothing I can "prove" to you, you will have to listen and consider what I'm saying and if it makes sense to you, there's no way I can answer that question in a way that would change your mind I can only explain how consciousness operates and what the soul is at a much deeper level than the brain. As I said, the brain itself is no more than a component on a circuit board and the only real way I can get you to understand that the brain does not produce you as a conscious being is to articulate what it is and the nature of it and I compare it to energy and electricity and this is actually pretty accurate and just like both of those they can take form or enter form and they can both exit those forms, in other words they can exist independently of any form or machinery. Again, you have to have a starting point somewhere where you allow yourself to consider spiritual sources, until you begin to have your own experiences, like learning something new that makes more sense and has more knowledge and understanding. Don't forget that conscious and the nature of it are open questions in science but they are fully understood in spirituality. So there really is no need to hold onto a fractured idea that the brain creates what you actually are. I can explain how things work but at some point you will have to give the benefit of the doubt that I know what I'm saying. You don't have to accept anything of course, but this should be about getting you to consider something and then you have something to work off of.
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@3RU7AL
You're absolutely right, he's a member from DDO that used to harass my posts and constantly try and insult me. I am not affiliated with any religious organizations in any way at all. I've never been a member with anything, I study spirituality as a whole so he is just trying to sabotage my discussions. My foundation is the Gospels of Jesus, but my beliefs expand well beyond what Christianity teaches.
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@Mdh2000
I agree that there are many things beyond our scientific knowledge. However, this is in a large part why I don't accept it as given that anything is beyond the laws of nature. Just because we can't see how it fits doesn't mean it doesn't, just that our understanding is incomplete (and possibly wrong).
Scientific knowledge never accounts for all that exists it will always be an incomplete system because it only moves with our own inquiries, 200 years ago science doesn't say what it does now and 100 years from now it will be the same as it grows, that's why this is so important for people to understand this and not hang their hopes on it. Science does not answer questions about God or anything other than what we study in our physical universe, that we are capable of. It has no knowledge in and of itself, it's simply a reflection of what we are happening to examine, it is just a method of study.
This is why we look at other methods of study that are capable of reaching where science cannot, this would be the arena and vast body of facts and evidences called spirituality/religion, this is the method of study that correlates with the nature of the Divine. Science constantly changes, evolves as we continue to study the natural world and so no one should be putting their life and beliefs in something like this, it's a different study and incapable of currently answering questions about any Creator and doesn't even pretend to actually. Science is a neutral study it has no ideologies or opinions so if you want to consider something beyond the laws of nature (meaning beyond our physical sense perception alone) then look at religion and spirituality as a whole, look at all the NDE's, OBE's, spiritual encounters, spiritual insights, soul travel that all point to the reality that we are leaving this body when it hits the dirt, IMO there is no doubt about it. I've seen and had many spiritual experiences and I study NDE's and spiritual based testimonies and there is no single other subject or topic that is as vast and numerous as the amount of evidence from so many sources as spirituality, it's actually stunning all the information and experiences that are available.
If you want to experience higher experiences you have to be willing to examine, and apply things and let go. Flexible but not dumb or naïve, allow yourself to be free to examine things outside your current beliefs.
I don't have any thing against science BTW, I'm only against people using it as a means to answer questions where it certainly has no means of answering. We need science, we need spirituality because we need to understand both the physical world and the higher spiritual worlds. Both are realities and no need to reject one for the other, they are compatible if we don't try to use science to disclaim things it is not capable of and vise versa.
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@Tejretics
Anyone on here like coffee or tea or both?
Both for sure but if I had to live with only one it would be tea for the long run.
What are your coffee and tea preferences?
There's a brand of coffee that I drink now that is probably the best tasting I've had, it is a Seattle's Best Organic brand and it's outstanding. I like to use almond creamer instead of dairy.
For tea, even though I like so many brands and types, my favorite would be Jasmine Green Tea with a hint of Raspberry decaf tea for flavor mixed with honey. It is a dynamite combo. I just tried a Green Tea with "Asian Pear" and that was excellent. I guess I would favor green or white teas over black tea but I love Lady Grey Tea as well.
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@Tejretics
What is the alternative explanation for the origin of life, that isn't abiogenesis?What do you think caused the origin of life?
The reason why there is a rejection of abiogenesis (the origin of life from nonliving matter) is because it is proposed "Theistically" that first it was a conscious, living Creator/reality that created and manifested the environment (and all within it) in which life forms or embodiments could develop and that souls and awareness could inhabit and carry out their purposes. Even energy itself, which is present with conscious activity, is manipulated and utilized to create forms in creation. So technically speaking "life" and or conscious awareness (living things) in all forms never came about by any inanimate substance of itself or the results of a purely inanimate materialistic process......rather life came first from a living conscious intelligence, AKA "God" or the processes that were used to create this world were established by a living Reality not a non-living one.
So it is an animate, intelligent force that causes life as it exists which would include the evolution of our universe and all within it. While there is a process of creation to get from point A to point B, it is the process of first a living cause. The distinction is the awareness behind the process is what drives everything into being and various forms, it is what animates all living things and acts out its function and that awareness behind all processes and conscious activity comes from the Creator, a living first cause or first Source.
Ultimately matter is energy, and energy in and of itself is not a being per say but it has an awareness behind it driven by a conscious, formless reality and is manipulated to a desired outcome. So to sum it up, abiogenesis would be a misconception, not an accurate way of describing the cause and the origin of life.
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@linate
do unlimited things exist? isnt God unlimited as is usually thought?
It's a simple misconception really, because while God can't do anything contradictory per say the Creator can do whatever is possible. So in our world, God is unlimited in that there's nothing impossible for what is possible, whatever is possible is possible. What is there to consider possible that's NOT possible? an impossibility is a nothing not a something.
is he only maximal?
Maximal is virtually the same as unlimited, because maximal means you can do whatever is possible in whatever reality that is possible. The distinction is that one suggests contradictory ideas, the other eliminates them, it's a bit of a word play but not really from my point of view rather from the other. There's no reason to limit God to contradictory hypotheticals when they are not possible to begin with, so maximal seems to fit better.
if so can it be measured as if finite?
Come again please? "can it be measured as infinite"? of course, because infinite is not contradictory to maximal.
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@Mdh2000
Are you willing to look outside the veil of the physical world and consider sources and practices that correlate with such knowledge and observation?
>I'm willing to consider most things (I can't think of anything I have refused to consider for that matter), however I make no promise to accept anything.
So yes, when cross referencing observation with spiritual sources the means by which it can be verified is vastly available to all, not just me
>What observations, observed under what circumstances, if you don't mind my asking?
The entire world and vast body of spiritual facts and knowledge....Observations which come through applying spiritual principles and practices as well as my own personal spiritual experiences. You should consider that all spiritual type experiences are testimonial....meaning ones own experience/encounters. This is due to the nature of spirituality, being that which is outside the physical experience alone which involves the inner man/soul. So when I say observations, that means my own experiences and my own time I've spent studying spirituality and applying it. And I've been doing that since I was a young boy on my own accord.
But again, you have to willing to examine things outside of what you currently understand or assume is true about this existence. And all that really means is to consider knowledge outside your paradigms or ideologies/worldview.
>Consider sure, to do otherwise would be close minded, accept? That depends on where reason leads me.
Okay.
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@Mdh2000
>No. I find it interesting because in my experience people who make this claim generally reason that things they observe in the mind must have an external source.
Not because we just make it up, consciousness is outside the mind otherwise you wouldn't be able to observe what takes place within the mind. If you WERE the mind itself rather than the witness of the mind your thoughts (which are generated by the mind) would be literally be your original point of observation but we know that is untrue because you were first aware before you thought, your awareness processes (observes) thought, which is generated through the mind (not your awareness). Likewise you were first a conscious soul before you were confined to a brain and a little body. BTW it's not "what we observe in the mind that has an external source", it's you that has an external source outside the individualized mind.
Your conscious awareness comes right through the mind, so in practice and demonstration your observation point begins with first.....awareness....which projects through the mind, where the mind stores information (thought), memory and it labels things according the user through the emotional layer which then categorizes experiences. All these events come first from the observer not the brain or the mind, the mind is simply a tool and the brain a restrictor.
>I put it to you, if the consciousness were the product of the brain how would that alter what you percieved and use as evidence and why?
This is an odd question perhaps you could rephrase it for me, because if I thought or believed that consciousness was the product of the brain I would obviously believe the opposite, and believe that activity within the brain is what creates ones awareness. I would not pursue Theistic or spiritual knowledge nor would I consider any practice of it. I wouldn't consider spiritual sources as a means to correlate my own observations and inclinations/intuition. But, I've gathered all the information about this from all sides including my own experiences and it is blatantly obvious to me that not only is there sufficient testimonial based evidences for the soul and experiences outside the physical body, the science behind the nature of consciousness in the spiritual arena is far superior and can take you much deeper in knowing what you really are. Especially in eastern thought (Hinduism ect), as well as western philosophy. In my opinion, "soul over matter" is a superior theory/fact.....Creator to creation.....consciousness first, which projects the mind (which is confined to a brain), which labels through emotions and which feels both through the physical nervous system as well as the subtle emotional layer. You actually have five sheaths or layers that cover your soul which individualizes you as a human, confines your experience here to a little man in a big world lol. Ohhh, if people only knew what they were and where they originated.
>I find the possibility of someone being able to answer that (and show their answer is accurate) is very interesting.
If we can have a decent discussion/debate I believe we could make some headway, perhaps you would consider another possibility. I understand full well what perceptions the materialists have and those that examine the functions and activity of the human body, and to me it's an azz backwards way to examine our nature, when spirituality has given the answers to consciousness for thousands of years. I think we should be examining the physical reality and I'm not trying to knock a naturalistic understanding I just think it's a misconception. It's all there though, all knowledge that transcends the physical experience is fragmented between many religions and pathways to spirituality. My own experiences dictate that I must not accept an inferior theory as I would have to lie to myself. In that though, I have reasonings and explanations for what I believe.
> Frankly trying to tell me why I'm interested in something is condescending and smacks of hubris.
Let me rephrase that then, I apologize....what I meant was that it SHOULD be interesting, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. It "should" be interesting because it is your nature and your true identity, and destiny to know (eventually). The very last thing I want to do here is create negativity or tension so I hope you accept my apology. If you don't feel that way fine, but the thing with spirituality is that you have to do a little work to have results. You can't just always believe one misconception or mindset and expect any (new) revelation but I believe there is a natural interest or instinct in man that he contemplates the inner man or soul and that aspect of ourselves.
No, this is from observation and correlating sources. Cross referencing combined with personal experience
>Such as?
The whole of spirituality, testimonials, spiritual sources including many religions. My own observations......I then begin to cross reference my own experiences as I observe them, and the correlations and experiences in a very vast body of knowledge suggests a very convincing reality. I'm more of an Omnist towards religion, so I examine spirituality as a whole because what religion really is, is the observation and experience of a diverse, dynamic yet singular reality. Singular as in the same purpose for each soul. While not all religions are created equal they each have truth and misconceptions. You put the pieces together through your own participation and experiences. If you consider spirituality and spiritual experiences as a whole, one would have to be stubborn not to even examine the possibility. And then experience it.
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@Mdh2000
Scientists can monitor the brains activity because there's activity going on in a conscious brain lol, that's irrelevant. The brain is nothing more than a conductor and restrictor to the flow of consciousness, it does not create it.
>This is an interesting claim.
That's because it's true, and even though it's a Theistic proposition (which seems absurd to atheist/materialists at first glance) it should resonate with your intuition and natural instincts just like a baby animal recognizes its own nature without being taught specifics or details, it just gravitates naturally to it, knows intuitively how it functions and this is true for the soul and for the occupant of the material body. The brain does not create consciousness, the mind, the emotions and physical senses do not create your awareness. You are the observer of the mind, body and emotions and the brain itself (along with the nervous system) confines/locks your experience to this physical form, without that confinement your soul would be free from this world and its limitations but that fleshy blob inside your skull is only a conductor and just like the electricity flows through a circuit board, your consciousness has to be restricted and confined to your body and so all of your perceptions from the time you were born are formed through that, which allows you to have a new experience and live your dreams and desires on this planet.
But the "soul" itself, which is the inner you....the one observing the mind and body, come from the very eternal consciousness of the Creator, that is both the nature of God as well as the nature of the soul, they are one and the same. The Creator forms the physical and spiritual universes and we inhabit bodies as souls to experience life through. Ask me anything you want about that there is a lot to it even though it is simplistic.
> Do you simply suppose this
No, this is from observation and correlating sources. Cross referencing combined with personal experience.
>or do you have means by which you can verify it?
Are you willing to look outside the veil of the physical world and consider sources and practices that correlate with such knowledge and observation? because it's not something I just made up, I mean come on this is the basics of Theism TBH I didn't say anything new I just present it in a way where people can get it and have accurate conceptions so they can form correct conclusions. So yes, when cross referencing observation with spiritual sources the means by which it can be verified is vastly available to all, not just me. But again, you have to willing to examine things outside of what you currently understand or assume is true about this existence. And all that really means is to consider knowledge outside your paradigms or ideologies/worldview.
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@Goldtop
Using the term "Discerned" as an adjective for "Spiritually" makes no sense
It's okay, simple things take longer for simple souls. You'll come around now or later.
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@Goldtop
That appears to be the one word associated with most of those verses
Lol, so in other words Ethan wasn't just "making up" crap?
yet I see nothing humble with
Psst…..pass the buck.....
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@Outplayz
No one would be able to touch me and i can break into any bank i want... plus i could probably only fly with this one since i can transport myself anywhere in the sky. Flying would be awesome so i think i would go with the space stone myself. The power stone is cool too since no one would be able to touch me. You could rule the world with that one... well, you could rule this world with any of those lol but the power stone would make you invisible so no one could kill you... which would make taking over the world easier.
Yeah I might have thought that earlier in my life, I wasn't thinking which one could benefit me the most. My personality is so passive now even if I was robbing a bank I would probably cry because I scared an old lady, I'd be like one of those burnt out loser heroes lol. The time stone I could go back and make certain wrongs right, I could speed up or slow time for some disadvantaged person, I could trap negative souls and try to help all the people that get trampled on in life....basically I would be caught up and involved in a never-ending loop of helping people, and I would love every minute of it lol. On my spare time I would revisit memories I love and certain time eras that fascinate me.
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@Goldtop
Please explain this alleged "right attitude"? Is it in Scriptures or something you decided to make up?
Maybe not for Jane but certainly for you...
" My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise.
But this is the one to whom I will look: he who is humble and contrite in spirit
But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
-The Bible
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@Outplayz
If you can only take one, which would you take and why:Time Stone: Allows the user to see into the past and the future; stop, slow down, speed up or reverse the flow of time; travel through time; change the past and the future; age and de-age beings, and trap people or entire universes in unending loops of time. At full potential, the Time Gem grants the user omniscience and total control over the past, present, and future.
This one..... I don't know why, this one resonated with me the most even though the others sounded good too. From the description alone I could write a book about why lol, but travel through time seems like the single most fun option plus I would love to go back in time I daydream about it. The cool thing is, something like this exists already within the Akashic records which exists on the etheric plane. Not only can you view past records and events you can re-enter that energy field and it would be like you were there.
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@3RU7AL
It was only six minutes...
Yes, and I barely made it through the first 4. Ef this, ef that blah blah blah. Sorry I get annoyed at foul mouths.
I'm not really ready to do a "deep dive" and "compare notes" so to speak.
As you wish.
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@3RU7AL
Geezuz, if you had idea how hard it was for me to sit through that you'd be impressed. Okay, but lets have some fun now, whatcha want to discuss? how deep do ya wanna go?
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@Outplayz
O, okay i see. I will give it a try. I heard a method that sounds like it would do what you're saying. It was to lay down and imagine an invisible rope in front of you. Then to with your minds eye see yourself pulling your soul out of your body from the rope. To grab and keep pulling until your soul is out. I think i can try that one. I think if i want to have one of these experiences the best way for me is with drugs. I don't find drugs to be a cheat... it's just another tool. So i'm not against the idea... but, the thing with drugs is that you can have any variety of experiences... and these spiritual experience are even rare with them... i don't do them bc i am afraid of a bad trip.
Yes exactly, it's practices that help the soul to release and free its attention squarely on the physical perceptions, so many things could work like you said the rope pull, I like that one. I also like the technique of first using your intuition or memory to move around the room, it's difficult to keep your focus on it without moving back to the body or mind. Ultimately one does not need to wait until they die to experience outside the material form.
Maybe if you need to use drugs stay away from hallucinogens and maybe just some weed.....they can interfere with what it is you really need, because after all this is not for just a game. This is a serious practice and your focus should be your desire to learn and grow spirituality and how these experiences could help that process. You do have to be someone cautious because you won't be the only entity around, some people freak out because they realize they have visitors they didn't know where there. I have always loved the Creator and spiritual things so that's kinda my guide and strength. The beings in the higher realms can be quite intimidating, they have abilities and knowledge that far exceeds our current abilities and what we know.
There's another one where you just relax and stop the mind (meditate basically) and focus on the third eye or spiritual eye, which is just above the eyes right in the center, this is actually where the soul enters the womb and physical body through the gateway of the pineal gland, which is also your observation point when you close the physical eyes. Anyways if you focus on that area and let that come into focus it will begin to appear as something like a deep bluish roundish circle with colors around it like maybe orange or reddish. This is actually the doorway into the spiritual realms and if you hold your focus you can eventually work your way through that colored circle. These are all just things to help the soul release and let go. Don't be afraid though, just relax and know you mean no harm to anyone or anything. It's always very simple to return right back to the body whenever you feel like you want to. Or just wait until you practice being alone and quiet until you are confident with that sensation.
This would be why I wouldn't want to use any drugs especially strong ones, as it could interfere with things in a negative way, but all in all this is all for you, God created the multi verses for all of us to have experience through, it's yours just as much as anyone else's.
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@ethang5
I like to use the ol fish tank/aquarium analogy or the "pets" analogy I made up to show how an omniscient/omnipresent "Creator" could be compatible with creatures that have their own will. It is a bit simple-minded but it would go something like the following.
Pretend you planned on setting up an aquarium for a period of time in your house or room and you begin to construct an aquatic environment to place some new fish in when it's all ready so that they can play and have a life while you observe them in the surroundings you personally created.
So you begin to assemble the aquarium, you set up the aquascapes just the way you desire.....make sure the filtration is adequate so that the fish don't die consuming their own wastes. You provide an oxygen source, adjust the water parameters and regulate the temperatures just right ect ect and now you wait for the aquarium and water levels to stabilize. When this is all ready now you will add the fish and they will be free to act and choose however they wish inside this beautiful paradise you've created for them and you will watch over them and make sure they have all the things they need to have a little life.
Here are some implications to this....
You are the Master and controller of the entire aquarium and the whole environment
You know everything that happens in the aquarium through observation at all times
You can determine in advance the outcome or course of events of something simply by observing what is taking place
You can predict and even know how some fish will act and how they may behave with others
You can do whatever you want to the aquarium AND the fish at any given time
You can create obstacles, you can create disaster or comfort
You can add fish or take away fish
You can bless or punish any fish based on their behavior
You can dismantle or deconstruct this aquarium at any time, so you are perfectly aware of both the beginning and ending
You can send "Divine" fish to foretell events and to prophesy what may occur in the future of the fish tank lol (jk)
You can interfere in just about any way imaginable without having to interfere with the fishies direct will
This is all without having to predestine or predetermine how the fish will act, behave or respond to any given situation, it takes nothing away from your complete control, omniscience or omnipresence or your creation. You are their Creator and you know all and see all, you know their beginning and ending and you are their Master. This is the same with creation and souls and how God creates and establishes (predestines) the world and our environment, then places free souls within it to act, choose and behave however they wish through their own perceptions, desires and creative imaginations/abilities.
God is in complete control without ever having to dictate every action of a free creature or take away its own will....It's kind of a goofy way to articulate this but I believe it works and is pretty fool-proof. I don't think it is necessary to force a Calvinists interpretation that God has preordained every single thing to accept God as sovereign, and TBH it makes no sense and does not correlate with our own experience realistically and why we are responsible for what we do in a dualistic environment. I can concede that God is within all things because of His omnipresent nature but that's different than predestination, God can be within all things as they unfold, as they take place and yet still have complete control over the universe and its ending.
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@Mopac
YAYYY, it's post scriptures time lol....
James 1
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
9 Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:
10 But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.
11 For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Now let me ask you this, what is there to consider or adhere about any of the above if God already dictated EVERYTHING? It doesn't mean anything and would be not applicable or relevant to a free individual if God somehow predestined all things would it?
The soul is responsible for what it chooses in a dualistic environment, that was NOT preordained. That is why we have instruction, warnings and blessings.
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@Outplayz
If this is the same as OBE's or astral projection, yes. I have never done it consciously without the help of a hallucinogen, but with one, Salvia, i have had 5 experiences... all the same which is rare for this drug, bc i always go to the same place. The thing with this one is that it also makes me believe i have died so it is scary as hell and i haven't done it again. Weed has also given me a slight one once but not all the way.
Astral projection is a form of soul travel but not exactly the same. The astral body is only the first layer over the soul as it leaves the physical body and can travel within that astral plane just like the physical realm. So astral projection is learning to switch your attention to the vibratory rate of that realm and the astral body.
However soul travel is the ability to project the SOUL anywhere within any of the multiverses or God-worlds and there are five worlds or realms that correlate with the five layers that cover the soul, these are astral, causal, mental and etheric planes so the soul has potential to experience five different universes within the worlds of duality.
It get's even better because the worlds above duality are the pure conscious worlds, these are the realms above the forces of positive and negative where they split off. Each realm above the physical is less and less restricted and even more creative as the soul transcends in its journey and upward into the higher experiences.
So the astral body is actually not the soul and not the souls only experience. The soul is the one observing through ALL those layers and worlds potentially not only the astral, it depends on the soul and what they are ready for. This is all something that can be achieved without drugs, but it takes practice as well.
The natural ones i have done are all with lucid dreams. I've had a dozen or so when i was trying. It's really hard to do... and messes with my sleep so i haven't done it for awhile. But i remember the most intense one i literally stood up out of my body, looked at myself sleeping and thought... "i can do anything right now" ... that thought was so exciting it woke me up lol. It was super vivid and i think i even remember feeling my hands... which was part of what gave me an adrenaline rush that woke me up.
Yeah really you only want to play with lucid dreaming to acquire information you may want that you can't reach normally. It is conscious activity though and so it too can be controlled and or learned from on another level. Many souls are unaware that forms of communication can come through dreams...for those that don't like to ever listen inwardly lol.
I really want to do a natural one but i haven't been able to. I can only do it in sleep or drugs, but have never done it when i was semi-conscious. I've tried but haven't got it. I haven't tried many times though so maybe if i try it consecutively i might get it. If you know any techniques let me know, i'm open to try it. I've heard you can have astral sex... i wanna, lol.
You can try simple exercises but it takes discipline and effort/time and practice. Like working out, it takes time to build up and it takes awhile to pull away from thought, emotions and the mind......distractions ect ect. You can start with the astral body and work even deeper to the other subtle bodies and even all the way back to the soul. But it is important to first learn to quiet the mind and pull your attention away from it by not following thoughts and get confident in that area where it's not a struggle. Concentrate on the observer and picture or focus your attention just above or behind you, as if you were looking at yourself. It can be real subtle at first but again, this takes practice like anything else to keep yourself away from the body. Basically you want to direct your attention to another area in the room you're in without moving the body, you can start by using your intuition to move around with only thought, feeling your away around by your memory but you want to train your awareness to move there where you want it and before you know it, your outside the body. It's similar to moving by thought, only it's your conscious awareness not just thought alone.
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@PGA2.0
Not true. Truth is exclusive. 2+2=4 is exclusive. It does not equal 5, 7, 89, 203.When Jesus said:John 14:6“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.'That is exclusive and it is either true or it is false. It can't logically both be true at the same time and in the same manner false.
That's called a creed, every religion and every spiritual path has creeds, that's what makes them special and that is what helps keep the soul focused and true to its teachings but all spiritual sources serve the same purpose for the soul and all have creeds to follow. The passage above is also true because that collective society does in fact exist beyond this physical world so it's true for those who desire to follow it and wish to exist within that spiritual collective society. The same principle is true concerning the creeds and practices of other religious paths and their creed to follow within their collective society. That is where they wish to sojourn when they leave the physical body.
You would be surprised what actually exists in the eternal God-worlds, and it's not just two places or nothing lol, not even close so you should stretch your horizons a bit and understand the creative nature of the soul and the Divine. It's not a limited one-dimensional reality.
Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
This is true, in terms of being "saved". If it's your desire as a soul to be saved from whatever it is you want to be saved from.
Again, this is an exclusive statement. If it is true then your claims are false.
That's not true, only if that is the only thing that exists and it is obvious that it is not. The teachings of Jesus are principle oriented and spiritual laws and principles are universal among all of God's creations, but they are many and they are various and that is something fundamentalists will have to get used to. If the soul (which comes out of the heart of God) wishes for other things and other experiences within the created realms God doesn't condemn them to some dirty torture pit unless their actions dictate that.
Also, as you say Man-made religions are just that. They are all work based (what you do to be right with God). Christianity is different. It is what God does for you that you don't deserve, yet because of His mercy and grace, He supplies a means for a relationship with Him through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
No Christianity is not different in terms of our actions and what we do as we reap what we sow, there are countless verses which apply to our conduct and the consequences of our actions so don't give me that baloney. Only in terms of whether a soul desires to be saved and exist within that collective society. Not all spiritual paths have a "savior" or redemption...some have the same underlying principles that achieve the same things for the soul.....which is for the soul to progress spiritually.
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@Mhykiel
Cool job keep sharing. I just posted some of my fave gospels.
Sweet, I'll check them out thanks. I don't believe I've heard any of them yet...
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