Total posts: 2,869
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
Haha a little cartoon for the layman.....easy to get.
Omniscience and free will work because of the way creation is put together, while everything arises from one single omnipresent Reality that is observing, the created soul which left the Creator has an unlimited potential of choices that were not possible to dictate as the video explains, so it doesn't necessitate that an omniscient God predetermined all our choices (free will), or better put our "own will". I say God doesn't know EVERYTHING in advance rather God knows everything as it's happening, big difference....because of God's omnipresent nature.
To add to the short video above the Creator departed within each soul a unique creative drive and expression so that essentially that soul will become it's own mini-creator in the environment that was predestined for it in the lower worlds. Because of the nature of our unique creative abilities and imagination, it is impossible to predetermine what a creative, thinking, intelligent being will choose at any given moment given all these potentials and possibilities.
All in all this is what the Creator has invested in all of this, because God experiences everything right through your channel of awareness and it's something God loves because you have the ability to become that which God did not know before hand until the moment you put your intentions and actions to a certain path or choice. It's actually really cool, and TBH it is weird holding a Calvinists view of the world and strips individuality and free will away. While we do all come from the same Source, we develop our own personalities through our perceptions and experiences essentially becoming what we want through an unlimited field of potential.
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
Yep.. gotta get back to work so i'll keep this short.
Yep, catch up with ya later.
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
The fun part, is when the soul wakes up from the grind or one perception and they realize how much more fun creation will be, each soul will eventually wake up, but as well that soul can play the heaven and hell game and the war between the two for as long as they like.
100% with you again... i really hope this is true and we're are on to something.
It's simple really, the misconception lies within the false belief that we all deserving of hell and we are all wicked by nature. IMO this is a misconception of the interpretation of the Genesis account. We all have a physical body, a limited mind and limited perception, and in this physical body we have to contend with its weaknesses and desires. However the soul, the very soul itself is as pure as it was when it left the Godhead or the first Source. It only deserves what it commits as a conscious decision. The only time soul deserves hell or to have a very negative experience is when it commits crimes against creation. That is why Karma exists, so that the soul won't get too lost, it MUST learn from its mistakes in a dualistic environment. However, because of the nature of creation and duality prisons do exist in the astral plane for those out of control as well as heavens exist for those who deserve it. But as long as you respect this knowledge, play the rules fairly in creation you don't have to hope it is the nature of the soul to know these things eventually.
I have my fingers crossed.
Have you ever heard of soul travel?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Ok, so do you think it would be fair to say you know any of this because of Gnosis?
Mixed with my own observations as well. All knowledge is at the finger tips of every soul, not just mine.
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
It's crazy, but i wouldn't say you "cannot" understand god. You so can.
Ahh, I can't stand it when people say that, it limits their own understanding and even their future experiences. Sure, you can't "fathom" an eternal reality with an infinite mind and containing all knowledge, but the basic concepts, and nature of the Source is very comprehensible, almost simplistic. It mimics our own experience on a tiny scale. That's because we are that very nature, we are the expression of That. Therefore it is our destiny to know, it is where we originated. Even religious fundamentalists should know that all souls and all of creation comes out from the very heart of God, or the first Source. I like to say "heart" of God, because that's truly what we are experiencing. It's the very nature and desire of the Source to create and express itself, everything and all of life come out from that omnipresent ocean of conscious awareness.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Why do you wish to draw straight lines from panENtheism (BTW to be more precise) to any traditional belief? That defeats the purpose of us discussing a "deistic" God. I already said what I have to say about religions, they are an interpretation of the God-worlds. Pantheism however exists in most major religions including Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Vardankar, Eckankar, Native American spirituality and many others. Most people don't recognize the bible uses the term "gods" on many occasions. Hinduism is obviously pantheistic.
Here's the magic though which most people don't get. Pantheism is compatible with Monotheism, because all beings and all gods come from a single Source.
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
That's crazy you just replied when i replied... i was confused for a second thinking how the hell did you reply so fast lol.
I know, I went to hit the send button and my notification lit up. Had I went to take a piss it woulda never happened lol.
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
Yeah lol, I was thinking that too. Hey! where IS Jane??
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
Many people are restricted by their own beliefs, mindsets and ideologies that they have their complete focus only on one reality or experience and therefore cut themselves off from any type of possible observation beyond it.
This is the gist of what i am trying to have PGA understand. When you are hyper-focused on one possibility... that is all you will experience. Your "own paradise." But, the closer you get to the source and its infinite possibilities... you can have all types of experiences which i have had bc of my mindset... and many others as well. This is direct evidence.
I agree with that, it's unfortunate anyone would want to limit such a diverse and eternal reality and reject everything else involved. It's almost as if they ignore all of creation is within the first Source, which would be omnipresent, within all things.
First of all you wouldn't want to live eternal on earth I'm sure you probably wouldn't want that if you knew what exists beyond this experience
If they only knew the truth in this... this is precisely what he isn't understanding yet. How is it that their paradise is my hell? They can't answer it bc if they did, they would start realizing the source hypothesis.
The Creator understands it and the soul understands it, but the soul trapped or focused in creation doesn't lol. It's part of the play though, it is what makes people believe their views are special. Well they are special, beliefs are a unique expression of each individual and many have truth to them, it's what gives them purpose even if they need it or not. The fun part, is when the soul wakes up from the grind or one perception and they realize how much more fun creation will be, each soul will eventually wake up, but as well that soul can play the heaven and hell game and the war between the two for as long as they like. It's fun for the soul to want to believe there's some God out there and they have to find It, it's not as fun to realize that the soul and the Creator are one, the nature of the soul is of the same nature as "God", just a tiny version of it experiencing in the worlds of duality, time and space, form and contrast.
The fun doesn't end at realizing the nature of the soul though, the disappointment is short lived lol, because now the tables turn.....instead of existing within created worlds (which we can always do BTW) and believing you are subject to all of it, now we exist by our own creative abilities and expressions whatever they are for the individual, or it could be that the soul transfers to one of the higher created realms/planets but either way the soul is meant to progress on its long, long journey. The realm we are experiencing at this moment is a very limited, restricted experience and the souls here are locked into a one-dimensional focus and it's that way for a reason here. But as the soul grows curious it opens more doors and more possibilities outside what they once accepted. Creation is awesome in that it destines what the soul wants, desires and or commits in actions through the many created worlds and multi verses eventually becoming a creative dreamer itself.
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
Every religion is intertwined in that they are seeking enlightenment and a good way to live to get to it. The only differences are they have different explanations and methods. That is bc it's man-made and an attempt to define a spiritual reality. So yeah, they will have similarities and differences, but they all have a common thread of "live good."
Good observation, I like to say "all paths of religion/spirituality serve the same underlying purpose for the soul". Mixed in with a bunch of other stuff lol. They're also defined by what level of conscious awareness they operate from, so while all forms of spirituality are for growth of the soul some are just more accurate than others, or more advanced you could say.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
The whole Bible is the testimony of humans.
It is but many Christians Believe they are “god inspired”.
Through a TESTIMONY.....come on man.
However, it's the principles and spiritual laws/concepts within the teachings are what we are examining.
We? That being Christians?
Yes.
Regardless of who put the traditional Bible together it is irrelevant to the concepts and teachings/principles contained within.
It should be concerning the evidence shows they have been heavily edited have been heavily edited, contrary to Revelation.
Revelations doesn't say it would never happen that's why it was warned......come on man, it said that IF it did......the warning applies to those who did such things, if and when they did. However you're going to have to offer something so I can agree or not agree with your claim.
why would the same principle not apply to the rest of the scriptures?
I haven’t suggested it does or doesn’t, but you have.
Then what are you arguing about?
And this is why Christians should be a little concerned. Given those horrid and dire warnings.
The warnings were for those who whishes to corrupt a Divine revelation. So why would anyone do it or even want to?
it's also mentioned in the OT so I really don't see what the issue is.
The issue is that, if indeed as you say the dire warnings apply to the bible as a whole then the warnings in Revelations Have gone unheeded in the NT in particular.
Really, and how would you know that? considering the punishments were for those who committed it?
However, as I said...Ido in fact believe the passage in revelations is referring to revelations.
So you have not only contradicted yourself,you are now saying that these warnings apply only to the last book of the New testament– Revelation. That is what I wanted you to make clear from the off and you told me :It should be pretty obvious to anyone that the verse in question would apply to both works, not just the old...if they are to be coherent. Post 8 aboveI think it is pretty noticeable that your not sure which way to go on this simple question.
And I explained, there's no reason for me to assume there aren't consequences for tampering with Divine inspired scriptures as a general rule. It's mentioned for the book of revelations and it is mentioned in the OT.
Created:
-->
@Mhykiel
Good to see you in this forum.
Created:
-->
@Stephen
Care to explain, Etrnl Vw, ?
There's two reasons why Jesus raised the body of Lazarus, Jesus was saddened by the premature death...…(and actually many NDE's that do experience brain death and left the physical body have HAD to come back because their time in that body was not over). So it is possible for the soul to re-enter if the body can be resuscitated reasonably, but they must be permitted to do so. The second reason was already stated, is was a miracle and a sign. Either way the soul must leave the physical shell at some point when the body can no longer sustain the soul.
Created:
-->
@Stephen
However, the BODY must die for the soul to leave that form and have another experience. Then the soul transitions from the death of the body.
I have read what you wrote a few times now. and I am absolutely baffled by it. It contradicts the gospels version of resurrection, totally in my opinion. Lazarus was "resurrected" into his own body.John 11: 43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.John 11:44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with grave clothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.Jesus was "resurrected" into his own body too, wounds included.
And what problem do you have with the soul of Lazarus re-entering that body? one, you have what is perceived as a miracle, in other words something uncommon......two the body of Lazarus did not die of old age so it still had some time left to age.....and three this was supposed to be a sign to the people so again, this is considered a miracle not a natural or normal event. As I wrote previously, generally speaking (unless a miracle) the soul is subject to the physical body, so then it MUST eventually leave as did eventually Lazarus.
John 20:24-29 King James Version (KJV)24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.Care to explain, Etrnl Vw, ?
Care to explain why you don't understand what a miracle is? that means it rarely happens....is NOT supposed to happen lol, that's what makes these accounts a miracle. But we are not discussing a miracle or something that never happens but what will happen to YOUR body and soul.
Created:
-->
@Stephen
That is my hope and faith.the above was not my quote. It was in fact a quote from PGA2.0. I did make that clear. I wish you would have too.
Sorry, I was answering it for YOU (figured you would know), didn't mean to confuse anyone. Next time I'll distinguish that my bad.
"They don't, the soul is already by nature eternal as well as its Source. The conscious part of you (soul) never dies, the soul moves in and out of embodiments"
And you evidence for that is?
My own observations and study. Consider though testimonial evidence for the soul in numbers is beyond any single subject by far. But due to the nature of the soul and spiritual based experiences they transcend what the physical shell/body perceives alone. So, say a material based study like science would be limited to the material medium and material experience, then you have to be willing to look at sources outside that, that correlate with the nature of the soul and the Creator. So if you look at religion as a whole, NDE's, OBE's, soul travel (astral travel) and all forms of spirituality the evidence is pretty obvious and should be at least considered.
Outside that, you have personal experience and observation which is direct experience, but again you have to understand it is testimonial based. But this involves a persons participation and involvement. Many people are restricted by their own beliefs, mindsets and ideologies that they have their complete focus only on one reality or experience and therefore cut themselves off from any type of possible observation beyond it.
I've seen spiritual beings, I've had many spiritual experiences and I practice the abilities to perceive outside the physical body and mind....you can by all means observe the nature of your own soul and consciousness away from the body and mind.....so yes, there is evidence but you have to be willing to consider sources and consider getting alone and pulling back from the physical body, focusing on the observer of the mind, body and emotions. Those are things you only use to navigate creation but you are the one experiencing right through the layers of your conscious soul. You can learn to release those and transcend the physical layer and physical experience.
Created:
-->
@Stephen
However, the BODY must die for the soul to leave that form and have another experience.
yes just as I thought, no surprises there: one has to die first. Wouldn't it be just simpler to give everlasting life while i am still in my comfortable and beautiful shell. I am very happy in my own skin. I cannot see the problem.Could you explain why I cannot keep this shell that I have had for over 60 years now?
First of all you wouldn't want to live eternal on earth I'm sure you probably wouldn't want that if you knew what exists beyond this experience, as well you wouldn't want to see what you would look like lol, because you are subject to the anatomy of any body period (unless by some miracle). The physical body as well as all other coverings or layers of the soul have an expiration date, but the soul itself embodies form so it can have different experiences on different levels, including higher spiritual worlds and other planets besides this one.
The soul itself actually has five layers/coverings in which the physical shell is the outermost physical layer. So you don't want to be stuck here forever you want to leave this body and have greater experiences than just this one here.
The reason the soul cannot stay obviously is due to the anatomy of the physical body alone, it decomposes and eventually dies off you have no control over that this experience was meant to be quick and temporal only the nature of the soul itself is eternal, without embodiment. Yet..... if the soul has to return it must reincarnate, and you can if that is your desires but you have to loose the current one.
Before I get to your other questions, keep in mind I'm not a fundamentalist Christian, in other words by responses and experiences are not limited to the Christian doctrine alone. I examine all forms of spirituality and spiritual truth.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Most legit religions [no true Scotsman] are observing a singular yet vast and dynamic reality [syncretism]. On top of this religions operate on various levels, it's also mixed with traditions and opinions, culture ect ect... Some are just more accurate than others [begging the question] but they all have truths within them, as well they all have misconceptions within them [bracketing/fence walking]. I can draw a straight line at many of the concepts within all these spiritual sources that I've examined [appeal to ambiguity].Can you draw a straight line between a deistic being and any general theistic tradition?
Lol, would you like to have a discussion or not? please don't add your opinions to my statements until we've discussed them and whether or not I agree to your adlibs, I could play the same game but it's rude and condescending. Makes me think you don't really want to discuss this, if you do then you will have to be willing to let me explain things and at least consider them before you go labeling things, but whatever you do please ask before you make any assumptions.
I mean, for all conceivable practical intents and purposes, as far as I can tell, a deistic belief is functionally identical to atheism.I don't see how by any stretch of the imagination [appeal to lack of imagination]. Atheists seem to me, to be stuck in a materialists nightmare [straw man]. Even a deistic God is still an omnipresent conscious reality that transcends the physical experience, out of which all comes from [a deistic god is merely a creator, or prime mover. A deistic god does not modify or interact with reality as we know it]. I don't know of any sect of atheism [I also don't know of any sect(s) of atheism] that accepts the existence of a supreme Being. Can you explain what you mean if you don't mind? if I had to take a guess it would be because there's no religious connotation involved? and therefore not relevant to your personal experience? if so I'd be glad to disagree and explain why.
Read above, if you have a question about anything I write just ask.
deismn.The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation. - https://www.wordnik.com/words/deism
We need to come to terms and agree on what we mean by a deistic god, not a deistic belief and what makes sense. This is what I get from the definition and this is what I'll be willing to discuss as a deistic proposition, I agree with everything accept that ANY God could "abandon" or has no "control" over life or the universe, that's nonsensical and I'll explain why below. Can we come to terms with a deistic Reality/God that all things exist within? I'll concede only to "does not directly intervene" but TBH everything comes out of It so again it is a contradicting concept to the very nature of pure conscious awareness and why creation even exists and what that entails...
deist
"belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe.
belief that posits that God exists as an uncaused First Cause ultimately responsible for the creation of the universe, but does not interfere directly with the created world. Equivalently, deism can also be defined as the view which posits God's existence as the cause of all things"
I'll go with the underlined...
I wrote...."Even a deistic God is still an omnipresent conscious reality that transcends the physical experience, out of which all comes from"
You wrote "a deistic god is merely a creator, or prime mover"
Isn't that the same thing lol, so can we move forward? can we agree that a deistic God is a Creator and first Mover? if yes, then what I want to point out is that it's absurd to say "this first Mover abandoned" It's creation, this first Mover would be omnipresent, not some Being somewhere inside It's creation or outside it, everything is within It. Can we agree on that? it should be common sense but I'll wait for you to answer, hopefully you won't do your game of adding your opinions to what I write. If you disagree make note, and either ague it or ask so I can respond.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Can you draw a straight line between a deistic being and any particular theistic tradition?
That's a very long winded answer for me and it may seem a bit unconventional but let me say this...there are collective societies among the higher realms/worlds beyond this physical experience on earth, "spiritual realms" people call them. I like to call them the God-worlds but they are what we term multi-worlds or multi-dimensions. But actually these "realms" are universes, packed with galaxies, stars, planets, creatures ect ect. Now, believe it or not each of those realms or universes is ruled by a demi-god or overlord. These entities as well can be perceived by humans and souls as "god", but they are an incarnation of the first Source, the supreme Reality where all beings and all souls originate. A human soul in this human form is stepped way down from the first Source, it actually undergoes five layers or sheaths that cover the soul to restrict its experience down to tiny, tiny version of Itself. However, the demi-god is actually only individualized to one or two layers that covers it soul. The demi-god/incarnation is much closer to the Divine in form and in knowledge/abilities, they essentially rule over man.
At any rate "Theistic" traditions can be the results of such things, and the results of mans experience of different spiritual realities and societies, it's mans observations and experiences with many spiritual sources. The soul love to do this because the soul naturally desires to associate as well as create and have experiences. Most souls in the lower worlds love to congregate, this happens on earth as well as all the other higher spiritual worlds and it spills over into our experience as well. So you can have more than "one" tradition that draws a line to an actual reality beyond this one. But these realities beyond this one is still not first Source, everything in creation is within the omnipresent ocean of conscious awareness. Heavens are within it, they are actual planets, demi-gods and incarnations exist within It, all souls and essentially all creation comes out of this formless Reality and exist within the multi-worlds.
So to be able to answer your question precisely I need to make you aware of the difference between gods/demi-gods and say....a "Deistic Being"......or what the Hindus would call Brahman, where all incarnations and all of creation come out of. It is basically one eternal awareness expressing Itself through creation and created beings. And because of this souls can have many types of experiences and with many different entities. Some traditions point to lower type entities/gods, other point to higher level incarnations and some even point to what I think we are talking about, is the Ultimate Source, or the Reality beyond all forms and all gods. This is the infinite, ocean of love and consciousness. Out of this love comes the manifestation of created experiences and endless expressions.
What happens as a result of all of this, is that there are many different spiritual paths and expressions of spirituality but that doesn't mean only one is right and all others false. The soul can have many types of experiences, including experiences that transcend all of that, to that which where the soul originated.
The problem with traditions and religions is that they each have their own names and terms they use to express that which they are experiencing. So a religion might use a different name and or term for the same thing another religion observed and coined. This makes things very confusing, but the reality of it all is that many religions are an expression of what they observe from collective societies outside this physical experience. If you want to get into which of these religions or spiritual paths correlate with the ultimate Reality, or a Deistic type Beings we could do that too. Sorry to ramble but some of this needs to be understood to be able to make sense in an answer.
I'll get to the rest below.
Created:
-->
@Stephen
That is my hope and faith.
Well understandable for some, but hope and faith (as in accepting something without observation) are not needed in understanding the nature of conscious soul and its eternal attributes.
Why does one have to die first to "live" forever?
They don't, the soul is already by nature eternal as well as its Source. The conscious part of you (soul) never dies, the soul moves in and out of embodiments depending on either where it desires or where it was sent according to its Karma.
However, the BODY must die for the soul to leave that form and have another experience. Then the soul transitions from the death of the body.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@SkepticalOne
I think most Christians do not know how the NT canon came to be.
Maybe in your typical church pews, but certainly not here or in debate forums.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
Do Christians even realise that these books that make up the New Testament were decided by humans and a not so called "god". More's the point, do they even care?
The whole Bible is the testimony of humans. However, it's the principles and spiritual laws/concepts within the teachings are what we are examining. Regardless of who put the traditional Bible together it is irrelevant to the concepts and teachings/principles contained within.
And it seems nothing has changed. Because warnings have gone unheeded, depending on if we believe EtrnlVw or anyone else who believes these two warnings apply to the whole of the bible.
You're not using commonsense again, why would the same principle not apply to the rest of the scriptures? it's also mentioned in the OT so I really don't see what the issue is.
However, as I said...I do in fact believe the passage in revelations is referring to revelations.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
Excuse me, I did in fact mean "this book" as in revelations. But I'd say it's a basic principle.
In other words it could both apply directly to the works of revelations, as well as scripture as a whole.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@IlDiavolo
Excuse me let me rephrase that, man does not have the anatomy of carnivores, omnivores or herbivores. We don't have teeth or claws for shredding meat, we don't the digestion of herbivores and pure veggie eaters. Carnivores have short wide colon for quick processing of meat before it putrefies. Fruits are the perfect foods and are superior to vegetables, highly nutritional, high in energy, easy to digest, cleansing and highly electrical, high vibrational frequencies. Fruits are beautiful, taste amazing and are fit for the human anatomy and structure.
Just because man eats whatever he wants does not mean certain foods are good for human consumption.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
As a general rule of thumb I would say it applies to all scripture. But what was referring to precisely in this verse I'm not totally sure, however the passage clearly says THIS BOOK.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
And there it is folks lol.be simply guessing, and surmising.I simply believethere is something else going on under the surface of these scriptures thatthese gospellers are at pains to hide
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
be simply guessing, and surmising.
That's exactly what you're doing. You're guessing the authors have the FULL story, or every word Jesus spoke and where there to record everything Jesus said at all times. That's flat out silly, sometimes commonsense goes a long way. I don't have to guess anything, I know by how they continued to follow Jesus He convinced them. That's pretty darn obvious no?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@rosends
Just my take on it.
Goodness, that's the style and approach from Genesis to Malachi isn't it? why should it stop at the "NT"? I thought that was the point of the WHOLE Bible, that each author and book to some degree echoed what was said previously....that's what makes it coherent, an account from beginning to ending. The OT was not written by one author and one period of time obviously, each author/prophet picked up where the other left...used their style and echoed the teachers before them. I mean it's obvious you have no intention of ever granting the NT works as an extension of the OT but not everyone feels that way. It's obvious there would and should be references of the OT and is perfectly coherent. They didn't just randomly copy verses from the OT for the fun of it, those "copied" verses were supporting the account surrounding the events recorded....which were an extension of the OT of course. I would change the word "copying" to tradition and purpose, as it WAS their scriptures and their tradition and they used those to support not copy from it. There's a difference there in what you're trying to portray and would explain why you find it useless.
It should be pretty obvious to anyone that the verse in question would apply to both works, not just the old...if they are to be coherent.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
I'm willing to grant you a hypothetical deistic being for the sake of argument.
Excellent, sounds good.
Can you draw a straight line between a deistic being and any particular theistic tradition?
Most legit religions are observing a singular yet vast and dynamic reality. On top of this religions operate on various levels, it's also mixed with traditions and opinions, culture ect ect... Some are just more accurate than others but they all have truths within them, as well they all have misconceptions within them. I can draw a straight line at many of the concepts within all these spiritual sources that I've examined.
I mean, for all conceivable practical intents and purposes, as far as I can tell, a deistic belief is functionally identical to atheism.
I don't see how by any stretch of the imagination. Atheists seem to me, to be stuck in a materialists nightmare. Even a deistic God is still an omnipresent conscious reality that transcends the physical experience, out of which all comes from. I don't know of any sect of atheism that accepts the existence of a supreme Being. Can you explain what you mean if you don't mind? if I had to take a guess it would be because there's no religious connotation involved? and therefore not relevant to your personal experience? if so I'd be glad to disagree and explain why.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@RationalMadman
Many parents tell their children explicitly that Santa is real. It's not not like cartoons at all to the children, I know first hand.
Well look, if somebody wants to call their own momma a liar that's up to them, whatever. I'm saying that it is a bit extreme when the whole point is just for fun, kids all grow out of it and most don't even need to be told they just figure it out. I don't personally know anyone upset about it! that's the part that gets me.
Even when the kids grow out of it they become an adult parent and play the same game. Personally I don't do the Santa bit with my kids. They know who Santa is obviously in an American culture but none of this old man sliding down the chimney crap to deliver presents. They know their toys come from us lol.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@IlDiavolo
Why do you keep insisting in convincing people to turn into frugivores?
Lol, "turn" into....no not really. It's of my own opinion, observation and studies that man is a frugivore and not supposed to be a meat eater, and doesn't do that well as an omnivore. We do not have the anatomy of carnivores or herbivores ..Look at the health crisis all across the globe. Raw diet, fruits and vegetables are a superior diet in every way imaginable. But fruits in particular are unmatched in nutrition, electrical value and very hydrating....they are by far the most superior foods, that includes fruits berries and melons. Perhaps read through the links I supplied. I can offer quite a bit more.
Are you a fruit seller?
No
Are you part of a sect that only eat fruits?
Depends upon what you mean here, people do raw food diets and fruit diets all over the world, it's just very uncommon and takes discipline. But the benefits are what they are supposed to be. We eat food for energy, health, stamina, vitality...we are a high level conscious species and require a high electrical, high energy hydrating foods that are compatible with are anatomy.
But if you're more interested, I can give you an excellent link/source where you can watch videos and talks from an excellent holistic ND. And yes he has quite a following on youtube.
Elaborate, please.
Why don't you check out my OP and some of the links and we can go from there if it's something that interests you or that you disagree with.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@IlDiavolo
Sounds good my friend! try to get ripe fruits and don't be afraid to replace meals with all fruits, observe the difference in your energy and vitality.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ethang5
I liked it. Popular chord progression, and cool beard.
Hey thanks! yeah the chords are simple and catchy to me anyways. I'll get my son to play the rhythm next time so I can go off on the guitar a bit.
Goldtop's problem is that you evoked the name of Jesus in the song. Pay no attention to his opinion. Notice he disappeared when challenged to show his skills. Telling.
The funny thing is this video was never intended to show my skills, I actually put it together just testing my recording device and as a result it's the only video of a song I currently have. My wife saw it and told me she loved it and that I should post it on FB lol. Turned out to be a hit, Goldtop was the first to complain. But yeah, I just wrote it as hymn, my other songs are more blues and rock driven. If I can find some more maybe I'll post em here.
Watching the other vids now.
Cool, the other songs I posted are from artists that I grew up with in the Gospel genre, I tend to like more underground Gospel music. Post your favorite Gospels tunes too!!
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
This might be true, but we can't say positively that any particular thing "exists" without proper qualification.
While that's Mopac's argument the Creator and all legit concepts involved are not without proper qualification and OR observation. Rather, I find it to be more about perceptions and what people find "absurd".
For example, unicorns exist in stories and strange thoughts may exist in people's minds and racism may exist in human societies.Each of these must be understood by and clearly defined
Not a good example, this is why I find this to be an intellectual shortcut for people that don't believe in a Creator. They compare creation to absurd examples when in fact creationism is by fay one of the most rational, common sense theories there is, it's not an absurd concept and has a vast array of propositions and evidences. Theistic concepts are clearly defined. Ask me anything you would like.
Created:
-->
@Goldtop
The word "intuition" is often misunderstood or misused to mean instinct, truth, belief, meaning but rather realms of greater knowledge and other subjects, whereas others contend that faculties such as instinct, belief and intuition are factually related.
Intuition-
the ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning.
Newborns have none of this as their minds have no knowledge or belief of anything.
Newborns have no beliefs...I already stated that fact, however they have intuition. What...EXACTLY is your point other than to argue anything I ever say for the fun of it, even when you have nothing to offer?
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
However, we don't live in a world of magic and supernature so that is all the 'proof' against prophesy needed.
No, we do not live in a world of "magic" but in case you haven't noticed Keither....we sure do live in a world where "some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature" (supernatural) come into play. Our experience transcends the physical boundaries and has for as long as humans have existed. You can label whatever you like, but it's just an experience that reflects reality beyond that which you perceive with your eyeballs.
Created:
-->
@ethang5
Self-serving logic. No christian I've ever met believes in magic.
I agree, and getting sick of this silly strawman and worthless statement. It's basically a cheap shot at Theists. I would like to see Keith be a bit more realistic. That's the game I guess though....make the opposition appear stupid and absurd whatever it takes.
Created:
Posted in:
It's similar to kids watching cartoons.....cartoons don't project the real world, as well cartoons aren't lying to anyone. It's just for kids to have fun with, then they put it aside.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Castin
This Santa thing cracks me up people get so serious about it. Really? calling parents liars for making holidays fun?? geeze…(I know you never said that, I've read it).
I was about 6-8 years old when I discarded the whole idea it was more of a natural process, no one ever told me Santa "was real" (in those words) and no one ever told me he wasn't. Common sense rolled in all by itself lol. However, I would never label my own parents liars for having a bit of fun on Christmas, that is a bit extreme. There's a difference in playing along with something as opposed to indoctrinating someone. Holidays are what they are, it's for the kids, it's a part of culture....then they grow out of it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
But our gospel writer seems to want us to believe that they somehow miraculously followed him “rightaway”and without question
I don't buy that, sorry. I gave you a legit argument to consider.
You have a lot of perhaps’ in your post, my friend. Perhaps you don’t understand what I have written.
Because perhaps you are unable to read between the lines.
I think the role of these apostles was a political/military role because some, if not all, were Zealots and armed to the teeth, on a close reading of these scriptures.
You've completely lost it on this one.
He did. And You need to understand who and what “the poor “actually were in 1st century Palestine.
Go back and read that again.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Tradesecret
Thanks for sharing your testimony in such an honest way, I really enjoyed your posts.
Created:
-->
@Stephen
Why didn’t they castout the devil that had entered Judas?
Devils/demons don't just pop in and out of people, they have to be given access. Once they have access it's up to the individual to accept deliverance or not, they can be forced out temporarily but Judas basically made a deal with the devil as they say.
The devil, by all counts, wasstill one of god's creations too, after all.?
Yep, but IMO he wasn't created the "devil".....that's what he became through rebellion. Souls are free to become what they want. However, I fail to see you point here.
Created:
Posted in:
Badazz song right here folks...
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@rosends
OK, we can leave it at that. Jesus stated material that can be found in the Talmud (as he was endorsing the Pharisaic view) so I get it from the Talmud, so his saying it is of no use. Jesus stated things that go contrary to Jewish law, so they are not of any use to me.
That is untrue. Sorry. Many things Jesus taught are not written in the OT, and what problem would you have accepting material from this supposed Messiah which has yet to come? (are you still awaiting?). I would have to believe you've never read the Gospels. His life, mission and example was surely unique, even if spiritual principles are universal (which they are). And on the other hand, if Jesus only ever spoke of what was written in the OT what problem do you actually have then? perhaps Jesus....the Messiah took what was from the OT and added power and authority to it, had a greater effect.... However I disagree with that statement altogether.
Saying he is a deliverer is very different from saying that "that's what Messiah means" which was your earlier claim.
I'll ask it again, does deliverer contradict anointed?
An associated idea is not actually foreign. When God shows Moses a burning bush and speaks from within it, God isn't a bush. When God splits the sea, God isn't the sea. God's power, God's "voice" (as it were) make themselves known.
Lol, okay....
I'm not going to comment. Unless you can show me where you've talked to a bush. That's not practical and we never see that other than in stories. Jesus performed miracles as well we usually don't see but Jesus didn't talk to bushes, He talked with God one on one and expressed God's will through examples. Through His BEING.
Created:
Posted in:
I don't think a Jewish person necessarily has to disagree with everything Jesus said. It's simply that they believe those teachings have no authority.
This to me comes across as double talk. The Jews are awaiting a Messiah to come and then turn around and claim nothing else could have authority other than the OT works.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Castin
Good question. I'm an atheist and I think many of Jesus's teachings have value in and of themselves.
Which is why I was shocked when I read Rosends opinion. That seems a bit extreme to me to believe in the OT and then turn around and claim the Gospels are not useful. To me it's the opposite lol. Not many useful things in the OT txts that are practical. I love many things within it, but there is no comparison. I also love some of the OT character like Isaiah, but none of them have the power and pull of the Messiah.
I don't think a Jewish person necessarily has to disagree with everything Jesus said. It's simply that they believe those teachings have no authority. In my experience this is often the case when you ask a religious person to embrace values or notions that are not in their holy text. The holy text is the recognized word of God; anything outside it is not the word of God. Which I'm sure has something to do with why so many people reinterpret the text to get the meaning they want from it, rather than create a new text or religion.
To me, there is nothing that Jesus taught that needs to be rejected on a spiritual level. I think rather, that some people need to open themselves up a bit more. Let go of tradition in favor of truth and freedom. I find Jesus to be a great extension of the Hebrew OT works. It's my opinion but I've put the time in to have a realistic approach and opinion.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
Granted the text is rather quick and to the point, but why should we assume that Jesus never talked with them and that they followed Him like zombies put under a spell lol? perhaps it was not within the authors knowledge what they may have discussed after He called to them. Perhaps there was something about Jesus that intrigued them....Basically it looks to me like just a run down not a detailed account. I think it's rather silly to assume Jesus did not convince them in some way AFTER He called to them and they came, not everything is written of what they experienced. On top of that they witnessed what was to be a very convincing path of spirituality through Jesus' example and works.
What was the role of the apostles? well on one level the same role we all need to play in our own lives, which is to put the role of the "spiritual" in perspective, learn greater priorities. On another level they were used to help spread the Gospel.
In the passage you presented it seems like you may have exaggerated a bit. No where does it say they were not to make a living or to ditch their families. Granted Jesus uses those sentiments in other passages but these are principle based, it helps the applicant to put things in perspective and help them discover worthy priorities. For example, most people think Jesus commanded everyone to sell all they have and give it to the poor. But this passage was said to a particular person who asked Jesus a specific question, and Jesus perceived his weakness and priorities and challenged the mans heart and then the man walked away sad. Some things not everyone needs to consider because not everyone has a problem with wealth and worldly objects. However, having said that the apostles were well taken care of and obviously found truth in what Jesus was teaching why else would they have committed?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@rosends
Because nothing he added is useful.
I respect your beliefs Rosends but I'm going to stop you right there. To me this is beyond anything that I wish to debate and is a very inadequate statement for ANY spiritual person to make and IMO is quite unrealistic. If you don't find the Gospels and the teachings of Jesus "useful" and yet find your OT txts as somehow useful we will just have to leave this as our own opinions. But I do appreciate the response.
MESSIAH-
the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible.
I have no issue with your meaning of the word as "anointed", perhaps they go hand in hand. What problem do you have with "deliverer" as mentioned in the definition? does anointed somehow contradict deliverer?
What is foreign to Judaism is the idea that God has any "parts" which need to be united.
I never said that. However, how do you believe God expresses Himself? if God is omnipresent and has no embodiment what does God do to reach the lower worlds? God does this through incarnations. I know that's foreign to your beliefs but we are not talking about just the Jews beliefs.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Castin
Perhaps his soul can communicate with a psychic on earth lol.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Goldtop
What I would like is for you to post some material of your work so that I know you have a leg to stand on. Calling me a beginner due to all your hard work as a musician, it should be very easy for you to show it from your own work and efforts. After all these years you should have something to show for it, and then I can judge your comments based on your talent. Until then your comments are the same as they are in the religion forum, where you just run your mouth and offer nothing in return. Now I'll wait right here while you post some of your own material where we all know you understand what you're judging and what you're saying based on your own skills.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Goldtop
If you know beginners and intermediates you shouldn't be labeling me as one. Can you show me some of your work? that I may judge as well?
Created: