ILikePie5

There are many scum roles that visit without being roleblocked, especially a JOAT, which I think is likely. Consider:

-Redirector

-Bus Driver

-Stalker

-Rolestopper

-Framer (less likely)

Supa/WF is possible but unlikely I suppose.

There is no explanation for how Barney visited me yet I didnt get role blocked.

Scum has role blocker + janitor.

Barney couldnt have done what he did, if he was scum.

My behavior outed you as scum. A 1-for-1 ain't bad.

Successful tunneling is called "scumhunting" iirc

You and Barney asked about GP's role mechanics in scumchat, confirmed he can't retrieve his probes if roleblocked. You then came up with the plan to CC someone ASAP to force a lynch, knowing you would get to 2-2 after a mislynch, my lynch, an NK, and GP's death. Good one.

You already won, scum

WTF WHY WOULD YOU HAMMER VADER holy crap y'all are dumb

GP has to withdraw his probes as well, otherwise he dies, and if he gets roleblocked tonight y'all are screwed

WHY WOULD YOU (gp included) NOT READ GP'S ROLE DESCRIPTION???

It's Barney and Pie. Calling it rn.

Behaviorally town:

whiteflame

Town but be aware of the possibility of a bus:

Barney

Outer POE:

BK

Scummy scum:

Pie

Whatevs,

VTL VADER

Pie is next!

I know what you did!

I'm not going to continue this back-and-forth on game mechanics. If you want to get into those, let's do it with Vader's flip.

This is such horseshit dude. I've repeatedly said he is the only person I'm considering beyond you. I've repeatedly said he'd be my NK target during the next DP. That's not "saving" Vader. And let's be clear about this: I've given plenty of reason to sus you via PoE alone. I won't pretend that there aren't other avenues available for explaining what happened during the last NP, but the amount of hoops you have to jump through to get there is just absurd. If you want to argue that those things are plausible, argue after the flip.

If Vader gets lynched and turns town, we lynch Barney, obviously.

But if we lynch you and you turn town, the next lynch target becomes a lot less clear.

So I agree that we play the safest possible option and lynch a counter claimed.

I'd say the odds of you being town are going precipitously down with each post. I don't buy the extravagant conclusions you're drawing about how the NP must have played out. They require so many assumptions that it's gotten absurd.

I didn't say it's impossible. I'm saying it's exceedingly unlikely that one member of a scum team would both put themselves in the position to get CC'd and simultaneously tie themselves to their scum partner. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's likely.

Yes, we don't, but you seem quite sure that it's one of a very small subset of possible roles and that they used those roles in a very specific way, as opposed to the much more obvious conclusions that can be drawn based on existing claims.

So because we know there was a suggestion of a fake role that could be claimed, it must be the Doc? I don't follow this logic.

I don't know how you come to the conclusion that all 5 Kates should be able to die in one NP. That's just spitballing to the extreme, as is claiming that scum can target 3 people simultaneously.

Could still what?

Fine, I'll assume you just made an error and we'll just focus on the absurd conclusions you're drawing.

Seriously, whats up with not lynching Vader?

Vader got innocent on whiteflame.

So if Vader = town, then whiteflame = town

So the only two scums would be pie and barney.

But if Vader = scum, then the other scum can be pie, barney or whiteflame.

But given the results from being probed, I dont see how Barney could possibly be scum.

So in conclusion, lynching pie then Vader is the very safe play, since even if one is town, other has to be scum as there is no other explanation of the given results.

Now, I would kinda prefer that we lynch Vader first, but it seems like it wont happen for some reason.

I honestly don't care that much if we kill Vader vs. Pie. I'm certain both are scum at this point, so it's just a matter of preference. Right now, I prefer Pie. We risk nothing by waiting to lynch Supa in the next DP.

So your argument is that GP is going to end up killing himself by sending out a Kate when he knows he only has one left? Really?

Yes, but some town members are unwilling to lynch Vader, which is confusing, but I dont mind.

So your responses boil down to "scum could have roles that do this." Fine. So, let's get this story straight:

Vader made a very bold claim that was quickly CC'd. We all agree he's scum. If I'm scum, then the assumption is that Vader targeted me (he'd have to, since no town members have fessed up to doing it) and then broadcast that he had done so.

Strange as the choice was to claim a character who I think was breadcrumbed in DP1, you'd have to think that Vader made the even stranger choice of both targeting and then outing that he targeted his scum partner, and that's on top of him having some role that he would use on said scum partner.

As for how you've explained BK, I'll admit there's a greater probability of that, since there's some non-zero chance that BK executed the NK and Supa used some role that targeted both me and JoeBob, particularly if scum assumed I was an informational role and wanted to Redirect me to get an innocent result. That being said, I'd say the probability of a Redirector who landed on a pretty weak choice (Barney was a much better option than me and both Austin and I could see it, so I suspect scum could as well) is not nearly as likely as that BK just Doc'd his target.

Scum might have manipulative roles, but if they do, they chose to use one of them on the Vanilla player (and, by your logic, JoeBob), so I don't think it matters much. You have to assume a lot in order to come to the conclusion that it does matter, given what happened to the Kate on me and JoeBob. 

As for whether Savant was the Cop, I don't think that's super relevant. It's possible he was. What I was looking for from a claim was anything that was affiliation-specific. Cop certainly falls into that category. Whether there's a Lawyer or Tailor in this game is more relevant if there was a Cop, but that doesn't explain everything that's happened.

Also...

Wtf dude? Scumslip much? JoeBob, the Innocent Child, and not BK?

Scum might not have known Savants role, but janitored the body to create choas.

WF has an unidentified visit from someone, so that might have been a role cop.

There’s lots of other possibilities, but we know we don’t have a cop, which makes us a lot less powerful. So scum is less likely to have any one power which does multiple things.

The flaw with that logic is that if Savant had that role, there would be no reason for Vader and Barney to both be claiming his role unless they're both lying - which doesn't make sense, as they would then be scum on the same team.

Other than that, I was right that there is a janitor in the game, which means we cant trust new role claims much.

Including a single vanilla in a rolemad game is pretty standard, and it seems like exactly the subversion that Lunatic would do for funsies, considering the whole universe is filled with superheroes. I'd be more suspicious if there were two. So I actually townread WF for that claim tbh

Did you claim yet, btw? If not, did your role possibly affect the Kates?

I don't mind if we decide to lynch Vader today. But Pie's arguments for PoE coming down to me or BK ignore something crucial: the Kates.

For me, I had a Kate visit me. That was confirmed by both me and GP. The Kate could only have died if someone visited me. No town member has claimed to visit me. That only leaves Vader. So you would have to assume that Vader knowingly targeted his own scum partner for this information to make any kind of sense. The only way that makes sense is if he's the Lawyer or Tailor, but that's a possibility, albeit a remote one given that we don't have a mixed investigator rather than a pure Cop.

For BK, it's a little more involved. One scum NK'd and Janitored Savant. The other scum visited me. We know this because a) Vader would have no reason to claim he visited me if he or his scum partner didn't, and b) the Kate on me died and no one on town could have done it. That's important because you would have to assume that scum had three separate targets - Savant, me and JoeBob - for all three Kates to have died. I don't know how you explain that.

The only explanation that makes sense is that BK is telling the truth: he visited JoeBob, resulting in the death of that Kate. Vader or his scum partner visited me (presumably for a failed RB). The other scum visited Savant and NK'd/Janitored him. There may be some more convoluted explanation of how we got to these three Kate deaths, but this makes the most sense.

How is Barney basically confirmed? I mean I’m leaving to vote Vader anyways but I’m wondering how he is.

Yep. Guess it's strange that I'm not going to bat for him then, eh? If people would rather lynch Vader, I'm good with that, but PoE's pretty blatant on this one.

VTL Pie 

Some balls to make that claim, dude

Best was literally saying he’d visit JoeBob; and those two are of high value to town (at least if BK is telling the truth).

...Except Savant said this:

Is there any reason not to reveal my role right now? The only special thing about it is that it can be easily confirmed.

He could potentially have been Amber Bennett and have some other role that would confirm him. Vanilla can't have been that role.

Ouch! I can’t remember what function they have, but ouch! Also, JoeBob and Best were very likely to have visitors last night.