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@whiteflame
Given the number of super powered characters on that list and the relative lack of normal humans, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only Vanilla.
True but you’re still the odd one out. It’s possible Savant could have been Vanilla and Amber Bennett. I want to pursue Barney and then Supa next.
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@whiteflame
Alright, I'll start by claiming to just get this out of the way since, yes, I agree this is the day for claiming:I am Amber Bennett. I am Vanilla because I am human and therefore lack super powers (hence my response to the "role associated with powers" question).
Well you’re our first vanilla so far.
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@AustinL0926
Three out of the four visited players were either visited by town or scum. I don't believe all three could have been visited by scum, that density of visiting roles is ridiculous. Today might be the day for claiming.
Savant was the NK. That leaves WF, Korea, and Bob. It’s theoretically possible that each scum can conduct 2 actions each. Like a Bus Driver would visit 2 people from last game
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Interesting that Austin is still votable. I have a theory but I will keep it to myself. If theory is true, kudos to Austin.
Unvote
Unvote
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@Barney
@whiteflame
@Best.Korea
@JoeBob
Can yall confirm that Greyparrot probed you last night?
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@AustinL0926
My preferred lynch order would be Pie then BK, but I can see the argument for BK. Just want to note that while mentioning Janitors last DP is definitely suspicious, it could be an easy frame-job by scummies to make BK look really bad.
I’m not getting lynched.
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@Greyparrot
VTL PIE
Are you going to provide any results
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@AustinL0926
I don't negotiate with terrorists.VTL Pie
I’m literally not scum dude. Like you objectively have to think I’m insane to be scum and claim the main character of the entire show.
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With Savant being Janitored, claims from Vader, Whiteflame, and to a lesser extent Barney (since he soft claimed) should be questioned. Scum now have a character and role they can use to their liking.
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@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
Very interesting that Savant died. What’s more interesting was that he was Janitored. And who mentioned Janitors last DP? Best Korea.
I’m interested in why you guys behaviorally scumread Korea when to me he reads exactly like previous games. Could you provide specific instances that are dissimilar/diversion from his standard game?
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@AustinL0926
Alright so I was clearly wrong. I apologize for that. I can be a little over the top sometimes.
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@Greyparrot
Just get your scumbuddy to hammer,VTNL
You’re my scum buddy though
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The fact that this wagon hasn’t been hammered yet makes it so obvious that Austin is scum. It’s been 3/4 votes for at least a day now.
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@Barney
His behavior. In include preferring his own head on the chopping block to mine.
What about his behavior? He’s been inconsistent. Blames my “behavior.” He’s at the point where he thinks I’m scum because I’m ballsy, which I’m not. You’re not getting lynched today anyways especially with the time left, so it doesn’t mean much that he doesn’t want to lynch you over himself.
We’re in DP1 so what actions has he done which make you think he’s “definitely scum”?
Cherry-picking evidence. Phishing for roles. Being hypocritical about the wagoning.
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@Barney
I’m convinced Austin is town at this point. Scum have a bigger duty to each other to not be lynched. And lynching him today gains less than it costs us.
Why do you think he’s town?
As much as I know this won’t go anywhere,VNTL
VTNL is not an option for town. We lose our primarily ability. Narrow the pool to our choosing. Austin is definitely scum just based on his actions this game.
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@Greyparrot
@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
Can we please hammer. He’s basically given up
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@whiteflame
I'd say losing the Doc is a bigger loss than losing the Commuter. Maybe that's just me.
That’s true as well. Either way, I think we leave Korea alone for now and we lynch Austin cause he’s scum at best or worse POE
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@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
I suppose that's the best we're going to get, up to the other townies now. I'm willing to make this a 1v1 between me and Pie.
Notorious scum indication.
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@whiteflame
It's PoE, not scumreading. I don't scumread what you've done so far, I just recognize that there are limited choices. We have one confirmed player, two players who claim to be confirmable, and a claimed Doc. That leaves four, and of those four, Vader is the one I have the most solid townread on behaviorally (that seems like a widely-held opinion), and I have decided to set Barney aside for the DP due to a gutread of the situation. That leaves you and Austin. I have more trouble with seeing Austin's choices so far as scummy, but I think he's the safer bet.
Reasonable ig. Though I would like to point out that Doctor is just as unconfirmable as a Commuter, though I don’t think Korea is scum. His behavior reads to me exactly like Mharman’s game.
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@AustinL0926
And of course, if I was changing my meta to avoid detection, the first thing I would do is notify town of it. Sure I would.
Like I said WIFOM
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@AustinL0926
Barney, and only Barney, knows why I townread him. Can't say more. If he rereads the DP he'll realize it too.
That’s interesting for sure.
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@AustinL0926
I think you're a good enough scum player that you could intuit a character claim from a specific enough fake role claim. If Lunatic gave me "Commuter", the first thing I would do is search for characters whose abilities allow them to avoid taking damage.
Again. Lunatic explicitly stated that scum were given a hint to a fake role claim and were not given fake character claims because they have a list of candidates to choose from. You’d have to assume that the hint directly proposed Commuter. Then you’d have to assume that I would directly claim Mark Grayson with it knowing full well that he’s an MC and likely in the game. You could probably fit Commuter with a range of characters—after all it’s a superhero show. You see how many strings you have to pull.
I wasn't at L - 1, and I was sure that there were scum on the wagon. If you think that players should claim any time a wagon gets anywhere close to them, then two scum plus a misguided townie and force a claim from just about anyone. Once I got to a point of pressure, I claimed my character, and then my role shortly afterward. Furthermore, MY ROLE LOSES UTILITY when claimed. YOUR ROLE does not. It's a false equivalence and you know it.
You basically were as JoeBob had stated at that point that he wanted you to full claim and the reason why he wasn’t putting you at L-1 was because he was afraid of a quick hammer. Your role lost utility because you claimed the mechanics. So it’s your fault and frankly anti-town in the first place. If I claimed exactly what type of commuter I am, my role would lose utility as well. So it’s not a false equivalence.
Show me exactly where I fished for information. I didn't affect Barney's actions at all (that I know of), and BK claimed on his own.
You were after me and adamant to force me to claim. Korea nipped the bud before you could establish the wagon, though you stated that you wanted his claim if I recall correctly. As for Barney, you said you scumread him for lurking after accusing me of trying to get a claim out of him for potential lurking in the future lol.
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@whiteflame
It's down to PoE for me and I think Barney's being a bit cagey about announcing his character. That being said, I took a look back at my list of plausible characters he could be based on his softclaim and I have some inkling as to why lynching him might be a problem. Given that, it's likely going to have to be either you or Austin at this stage, though I'm not convinced of either of you.
I think tomorrow we can get Barney’s claim and move from there. Today has to be Austin though. I don’t want to lynch Korea because he’s a claimed doctor with no other clear protective roles.
I’m also unclear why I’m being scumread.
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@AustinL0926
Sigh... let's break this down.First, wagon speed means nothing unless you want to admit to being scum for leading a 6 minute wagon on me. It's more about who's online and who's more free with their vote rather than a coordinated effort by scum.
The actors were the same in both lynches for the most part, but sure we can let this go.
Second, I gave evidence for why claiming the MC doesn't clear you. You blatantly misconstrued this as being the sole reason I wanted to lynch you, which is disingenous at best.
Yet you ignored the fact that I would have had to claim Mark Grayson knowing that he was the main character and was going to be in the game. Scum weren’t given a character claim and you ignored that. Claiming the MC might not clear me, but claiming the MC this early in the game with no fake claims given is asinine especially when we know that Lunatic has given main characters every game.
Third, I hesitated to claim because my role loses utility when claimed. Yours doesn't - in fact, according to my research, commuter can't even be roleblocked. In contrast, my role which becomes very strong in MYLO and pre-MYLO situations is now functionally useless.
It doesn’t matter whether it loses utility or not. You refused to claim when people that you townread even requested you to claim. I claimed right away. Even if you were the Cop you should’ve claimed. Your mechanics are irrelevant. The delay is insanely scummy.
I also didn't switch onto Barney and BK, I briefly scumread Barney and dropped him afterward, while merely pointing out some scummy aspects of BK's behavior. If you believe it's not possible to focus on more than one person at a time, idk what even to say.
I never said it’s not possible to focus on more than one person. My problem is that it’s clear you’re information phishing, which is scummy.
And yes, I am switching up my town play because I've noticed from my past games that it's not working. That doesn't mean I can't point out my own meta, or logically argue why my behavior so far would be horrific play as scum if I was so.
Anything you say regarding your behavior is clearly WIFOM then. Anything you say should not be believed.
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@AustinL0926
I'm not letting Barney get lynched today.
Why do you townread Barney?
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@whiteflame
I agree that it doesn't match his previous behavior. I disagree that that indicates he is scum, particularly given how he's chosen to spend his time, though I've already covered why I think that when I gave my reads earlier. Like I said, I'm fine with doing this to narrow PoE and even better if he ends up flipping scum, I just don't buy it.
Okay, so who would be your preferred lynch at the moment?
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@whiteflame
I just can't square his behavior with him being scum. I'm willing to pull the trigger to narrow PoE if we have no better option, but that's where I stand.
He said himself he’s trying to change the way he plays. He’s conscious of his behavior and trying fully hard to still get rid of me for faulty reasons. Even if you look at his behavior, it’s not town Austin to pursue someone for faulty logic and evidence.
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@Greyparrot
@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
What are your reads on Austin?
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@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
@JoeBob
Oh yeah, and in case it's not already clear, I view Pie as 100% scum based on how he's been pushing me in an unnatural way.
What’s unnatural about it? I pushed Barney so that he wouldn’t lay back as he did when he was scum. You find that scummy af and lead a 10 minute wagon on me to force me to claim. I claim a main character and Commuter. Then you say my role makes no sense because Lunatic doesn’t make main characters town or whatever and you cite 3 games in your support. I go back in and do my own research and point out other Lunatic games that show he made main characters town, which amounts to Austin cherry-picking. Even then, he still goes after me saying I “misconstrued” his argument. When I lead a counter wagon on him, he screams foul for the exact same reason that I said: a quick wagon. He hesitates to claim for an eternity, and then finally claims upon pressure. This not even considering that he switched onto Barney in the middle and then Best Korea as well. It screams character and role phishing to me. He even admitted that he’s changing up his method of playing at the beginning of the game, so it’s clear he’s aware of his own behavior.
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@whiteflame
That's part of the reason I'm not fully trusting my read on him. That being said, the fact that he's a troll doesn't mean he's town in this game. He'll troll whether he's town or scum based on what I've seen.
That’s also true. Either way, it’s better to allow him to potentially prove himself. Austin cannot prove himself. He’s acted scummy af with my wagon and his cherry-picked evidence. He as scum stands a lot to gain with me being eliminated in the game. I’m confident he’s scum. But the chance I’m wrong, he retains his vote tomorrow and his guidance is valuable along with Joe’s
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@AustinL0926
You've also been in two games where Pie is scum. His playstyle is near-identical. Buddying the majority of the players while "helping" town by driving a single lynch hard. He did this with BK and you in Indie Games, as well as in Wylted's Mafia.
My town play is exactly the same as my scum play. You can ask Vader, WF, etc. I pride myself in playing the same regardless of my affiliation.
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@JoeBob
You can? Yea I didn’t see that part.
Ya cause I can’t be targeted when I commute, so if any PR targets me at night, they wouldn’t be able to
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@Greyparrot
@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
@JoeBob
There is no major downside to lynching Austin this DP. Worst case he dies end of DP2 and still retains his vote in the meantime. We also have clear feedback from Austin to guide us in addition to JoeBob. Best case scenario, we have nabbed scum.
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@AustinL0926
Odd that you would address that specifically, but yes, I admit that's probably not a great line of reasoning for now.
I’m responding to things in order. It’s odd you’re thinking of balance as town this early in the game when you don’t know all the roles. Scum are more inclined to think about balance this early since they have the most information.
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@Barney
This BK post feels really inorganic to me. How common have janitors been in past BK games to make him especially worried about them?My gut says that Austin and BK are the scum team. Austin pushes the BK lynch after the doctor claim, which he knows won’t go through. If BK then fails to doctor then flips scum, Austin gets town cred for having been after him since day 1.
This is a really interesting observation, and I don’t know what to think of it as of now.
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@AustinL0926
@JoeBob
I tunnel as town and sheep as scum. That's pretty much my meta, and you can check my previous games to confirm it. Do you really think I would still be pushing Pie so hard when I know for a fact it's making me look bad? I could've just dropped it after he claimed, with the logic of "he claimed MC, no CCs, sorry for pushing you". There's reasons why I didn't. Town acts rationally, scum behaves rationally.
Austin explicitly stated this game that he’s going to try to play differently. By his own logic, you shouldn’t read into his meta. He’s fully aware that he needs to play differently. Rest of his logic is WIFOM
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@AustinL0926
It could just be a ballsy fakeclaim, and the role doesn't match up very well. He's also behaved relatively scummily throughout the DP, such as deliberately misconstruing my arguments in order to make my reads seem inconsistent when they're not.
So Pie ballsy claims the main character. Ok. How does the role not match up? Invincible makes a lot of sense with Commutwr.
I have discredited your arguments. Your game evidence of Lunatic was discredited and your Commuter =/= Mark Grayson is also discredited. All you have right now is “Pie is ballsy,” which tbh isn’t that true.
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@JoeBob
I am down to lynch either Austin, Pie, or Barney, as none of them stick out to me as scum.Rest of the people can be confirmed or are seeming town to me.
Can you rephrase this. I can potentially confirm my role. Austin cannot. Barney cannot, so I’m curious why I’m on the list.
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@Savant
Given how confident Austin was about lynching Pie, the fact that he's continuing to push hard seems like a scum strategy. I could see a scum player panicking and sticking to their guns even after making a mistake, fearing that pivoting would be seen as unnatural. Whereas I think a town player would be willing to immediately adjust their accusation based on new evidence. It's not necessarily WIFOM, just an instinctive response. Austin said he would "bet his account" on Pie's claim being fake and entirely failed to deliver evidence for this.
He thought he had a quick lynch on me. I’m probably one of the best town players. He was ecstatic to get my claim, and then when I claimed, he moved on to “I don’t believe he’s a Commuter.” His behavioral read on me has zero merit. The “evidence” he provided form Lunatic’s games were discredited.
We could debate whether a scum player would pretend to act rationally or irrationally, but I think a town player would act more rationally than Austin has been so far.
He’s on the chopping block now. He’s the optimal lynch with all the information we have. There’s basically no downside at all. Though based on his behavior, I’m quite certain he’s scum.
That said, whiteflame knows Austin much better than I do and has outed him before as scum. So if he feels strongly about this, I'd be willing to go with him and let Austin live for at least today. But if we do lynch Austin later and he's scum, that puts some suspicion on whiteflame in my opinion.
WF is always hard to read imo
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@Savant
Austin "suspects" me because he thinks I want to frame best Best.Korea. Then he turns around and advocated lynching Best.Korea.
He’s all over the place
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@Barney
I stand by my earlier idea of letting the fully confirmed townie lead the charge. If he rolls the dice, there’s a 25% chance he catches scum. An educated guess will hopefully be better odds than that; but it’s a wagon at least initiated with the assurance of no bad motives behind it (any wagon started by someone else, as a 25% chance of being lead by scum)
I disagree. We need to come to a consensus. Right now that person is Austin. There is zero downside to town lynching him. If he’s town, we still have his vote tomorrow. If he’s scum then he’s screwed. Easy
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@whiteflame
I find it very difficult to believe that GP isn’t town based on his claim, which is easily verifiable. If it isn’t verified during the NP, then he’s the obvious lynch, so I don’t know why he’d do that.
I agree with this
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@AustinL0926
Intuitively I feel that either Pie or BK is lying about their role. Doctor and Commuter are basically the strongest possible protective roles (unlimited protection of others and unlimited self-protection respectively). A Bodyguard or Jailkeeper would make more sense imo. Not really any actual evidence, just my feeling in terms of game balance.
You can’t determine balance without knowing the other roles
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@Savant
When BK is town, how seriously does he take the game? I mean this is the user who started debates called "Anyone who is not a Christian is on the path of sin and sodomy." and cited a Quora answer as his only source. Trolling doesn't always mean scum.
This is my point that I explained earlier
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@JoeBob
Send two probes out tonight. One to me and one to Savant. If I die, which I most likely will, then savant can confirm you as town. Savant also said he can confirm him as well, so we can confirm two people tonight, which helps us incredibly.What do you think of this idea?
The problem is that we don’t know what roles scum have, so they can manipulate any potential plan we may have.
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@whiteflame
Yeah… behaviorally, he’s still the most sus to me, though the Doc claim makes it hard to justify picking him this DP. That being said, the fact that scum have a fake role claim (one that Luna says he only hinted at) makes me suspect that scum received a pretty strong claim. I’m not ruling out Doc for that.
See here’s the thing. He pulled the same bullshit in Mharman’s game I think where me and GP were scum. He’s a troll. It’s hard to judge him for his behavior. But the way he’s playing aligns perfectly with the play in that game.
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@AustinL0926
I am the Bleeder, but it's weirdly flavored (for balance reasons I presume). If I die in the DP, I get revived for the NP and then die at the end of the next DP (I can still vote and post during that DP). If I die in the NP, I get revived for the DP and then die at the end of the next NP (and can still be targeted during that NP).E.g.Lynched DP2, I survive to the end of DP3NKed NP2, I survive to the end of NP3
Interesting that you revealed the flavor. That’s really odd and specific. Either way, you should be the lynch today. Worst case you’re town and we get the views of a townie tomorrow. Best case you’re scum and you die.
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