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@RationalMadman
You realize YYW is far more skilled than you based on his profession right?
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One far leftist and one far rightist as moderators. Only leftist can ask questions to rightist and only rightist can ask questions to leftist.
Easy solution
Easy solution
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Have a far leftie and a far rightie co-moderate. It’s easy.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Barney ain’t an improvement lmfao. But I definitely agree with you.
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@Barney
These things are in no way mutually exclusive.Further, your success in said debate would support it. Hell, defeat me in the debate and I'll step down (thereby taking far less of your time and energy than the commitment of running a referendum, to achieve the same goal).
Oh I love me a good challenge :). We’ll see if you all keep your word.
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@Barney
You claim that he said banning for doxing is dumb. But you have refused to point to the hypothetical post in which he's supposed to have said that.
You are willfully misconstruing my allegations. Makes sense though. Gotta stay in the good eyes of your boss.
Again, issue the debate challenge. I'll gladly come out of retirement for it, giving you a chance to break my win streak so long as your words are not just rambling non-sequiturs.
No. I have better things to do, namely form a MEEP that allows for the removal of authoritarian “mods” like you.
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@Barney
Why don’t you go back and read it. Then look at what your “boss” said in this chat about the ban itself.
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@Barney
You have not said anything of substance. If you’re not banning Wylted for the first two reasons, why even mention it in the first place.
Your own ally has said that you are wrong. That’s all the evidence I need to show how disgraceful your judgement is/was
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@FLRW
Well, incumbent Vladimir Putin won reelection for his second consecutive (fourth overall) term in office with 77% of the vote.
This says everything that needs to be said about you
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@RationalMadman
WF is absolutely one of their thugs though but he answers ultimately to Lunatic, not Coal.
How so
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@Barney
So why is “extravagant lying,” which objectively was not even the case here and fallout thread harassment even mentioned in the ban?
At least you’re conceding that these 2 reasons are now dumb
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@RationalMadman
This isn't a democracy just because you want it to be now. Nobody gave a shit when I wanted to overthrow David and Ragnar.
We can only get rid of one mod every 6 months with 2/3s threshold and after 10 signatories sign a petition. That’s the initial idea so. I’m more than happy to overthrow Ragnar now. As always if you approached me with your concerns I might’ve been more sympathetic, but Idek what happened between y’all.
We get rid of the current mods, Lunatic/Coal and their thugs run the show which only benefits you.
Assuming CM gets removed, the DM takes the CM position. Any other position gets removed then CM appoints or gets rid of position altogether.
Also I don’t think WF is a thug of Coal and Lunatic lol. Same with Supa.
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@RationalMadman
We can discuss details over Discord if you’d like
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@RationalMadman
which mod?
Any mod who we think has committed an abuse of power. I’m thinking of implementing a 6 month limit for each successful removal so the process isn’t abused
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@RationalMadman
You support above? Any suggestions/improvements are appreciated
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Petition to remove mod from their position for abuse of power: 10 signatories required to petition after which a MEEP will take place. Signatories must have 6 months of activity or 1 gold medal to sign.
2/3s of all votes must be in affirmative in the MEEP thread for the MEEP to succeed. Mods cannot vote for ethical reasons.
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@Rational-Empiricist
I unfortunately cannot debate. Can’t commit the time to it cause college.
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@Barney
If you actually believe this, you should build a logical case in support with it with a sound conclusion.
I already have. Your logic is inconsistent and built on complete bs.
You have never banned someone for creating a callout thread.
I already pointed out the inconsistency in not banning Lunatic.
Even Supa admits the above two reasons are illogical and not ban worthy. You wrote the text of the ban, now own up to your authoritarianism.
As is, you keep dead ending conversations with this declaration (along with argumentum ad Nazium) instead of bothering with topical replies.
I have already said what I wanted to say. Your responses lack any sense of regret. You can do no wrong cause you’re a mod. Your fellow mod Supa even admits the first and second premises of the ban were dumb. Your own ally disagrees with you. Resign.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If you take him at his word, but he did ask for people to give him the info publicly. I think if mods had done that, and used the word "dox" explicitly your case for hypocrisy would be sound... or if he had kept to PMs and they still banned him.
He said to email it to him. The email address is now censored.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
2) IP information is potentially doxing, but that was not published, no mod asked anyone to find his IP or info, they just used it.
Wylted wasn’t going to post the info either lol
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@RationalMadman
The thing you and I disagree on is firstly I see Wylted as a villain to the website, not a good guy or hero of any variety. I told the mods it was a mistake to unban him before and was proven correct.
Like him or dislike him, the standards should be the same for everyone. Modding should be of a consistent nature. Here we see an individual trying to justify the ban based on absurd reasons. One mod has even admitted 2/3 of the reasons were.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If this happened is there no record of it you can link to?
RM remembers it.
Saying "I've sent someone to see if he's ok" is a hell of a lot different than asking "somebody find out where he is". One is calling for doxing and the other is not.
David didn’t know exactly where Wylted lived lol. Just like idk where Supa lives exactly, even though I have a pretty good idea cause we have each other on social media. You have to use the IP data to correctly send the police over.
Apparently that doesn’t constitute “doxxing.” I’m trying to find out why the double standard exists. As far is I understand, the only reason mods can see IP info is to prevent multi-accounting.
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@Barney
Why didn't I ban myself, for what someone else did, at a time when I wasn't a moderator... Because in spite of how much both you and I wish for it, I'm not some time traveling god-like being.As for your ban request, how long would you like?
You need to resign and leave the mod chat. Period.
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@RationalMadman
Bsh and David did that because David literally knows Wylted irl. Sorry if that is doxxing to reveal but that was how they so easily did what they did and why David cared and dared to take such action.Ragnar was not involved.
It’s still doxxing for Bsh. And he was not banned. There is a double standard clearly.
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@Barney
Never happened. Nor have I murdered Wylted and his extended family as you've claimed elsewhere (and yes, stating that I've done to him what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, is claiming just that).
Well why don’t you just ban me for “extravagant lies” then :)
Outside your overactive imagination.
I literally highlighted an example of inconsistency but ok. I know liberals sometimes have a hard time getting stuff into their brains. You’ll realize when you’re older
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@RationalMadman
That's true actually, Lunatic directly harassed you during the campaign and they didn't act on it because you were okay with it.
I didn’t think it was harassment, and I said as much. But if the Wylted standards were the same, Lunatic should’ve been banned regardless of my opinion.
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@Barney
So why have you not banned yourself. I seem to recall an instance where you doxxed Wylted and called his local law enforcement cause you “thought” he might commit self harm.
Where is the consistency?
“Dox = ban” right?
Where is the consistency?
“Dox = ban” right?
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@Vader
Because that is not how the world works. We do not care if someone does or doesn't mind it. If someone does something negative to someone but that person does not care, that does not mean that person is not punished. A crime is still a crime, even if that person did not mind the crime happening to them, which is how people enforce. We do not care if the other cop was fine with speeding, we are not enforcing behavior based on that cop.
That’s a false dichotomy. Harassing isn’t like murder in any sense. The two are inherently different, which accounts for the different standard of punishment. The point is that the bar for harassment is inherently different. I could see RM responding to me even though he is blocked as harassment, but as mods you won’t take any action. I could’ve reported Lunatic for the call out thread a while back as “harassment” but I saw it as free speech. The point is that there’s a double standard here. There is zero consistency in your rulings.
As for doxxing, again. If mods can dox someone cause they “think” someone may commit self harm, then why is this not allowed. If he threatened to publically post the information, I would agree. But he did it for the same reason you as mods would call the police. To notify them of something that deserves to be said.
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@coal
I’d suspect childhood trauma
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@Nyxified
"The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour." James Kelley, Ph. D.
Oh so anyone who has committed a crime shouldn’t be let out right? Gimme a break.
Wylted called me slurs a half a dozen times and most of his forum posts were him posting conspiracy theories that were either antivax or antisemitic. Calling his contribution 'positive' is either delusion or allegiance to his insanity.
Why is it wrong to argue those point of views? And just because you haven’t seen his positive contributions doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
You don't need to predict the future to say that someone being left to fester is probably something that we might want to avoid just to be safe. It's ground for abuse of power, sure, but that's true of every power. That's why we have ban appeals and more than one mod.
So you’re openly admitting that abuse of power is ok? Ban appeals serve nothing cause they literally go through the same mods lol. And having more than one mod means nothing. Since when are oligarchies good Lmfaoo
This isn't preemptive censorship. We're talking about censorship of harassment that has already occurred. If the mods thought I was harassing you, that'd be bad, because I wasn't. Recall I said it was a hypothetical where we had 100% certainty. Moreover, I'd probably submit a ban appeal. If it didn't go through, well, that sucks, I guess.
Is creating a call out thread harassment? Have we ever banned someone for creating a call out thread? Is it harassment to give an opinion on an individual. You clearly seem to be against free speech.
You’re willingly ignoring an abuse of power and if you think that’s fundamentally ok, then you and I just disagree and nothing I say will change your conformity to authority.
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A fundamental role of the government is protection of the people. How do you propose that occur without the police?
One of the top demographics that supports the police is African Americans.
Guess what the lowest is. White liberals.
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Men and Women, on average, are fundamentally different.
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@coal
Ragnar
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@coal
Definitely agree. Nothing’s going to be done though, which is sad.
The show is being run by an individual who isn’t even a mod but wants to push a narrative.
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@Nyxified
If we could, in a hypothetical scenario, say with 100% certainty that someone was harassing another person, but the person being harassed did not care about it for whatever reason, it's still justified to ban them for harassment. Here's why:
- Somebody willing to commit harassment against someone who doesn't care is capable of harassing someone who does care.
Again that goes back to the point of, “I think you’re going to harass someone who does care.” How can you or the mods predict the future?
- The kind of person who harasses others is almost without doubt a toxic individual who can only contribute to the site's general culture in negative ways.
Wylted has been contributing positively for a decade. Whether that be playing mafia or debating.
- A harasser given the opportunity to fester is a time-bomb of violence waiting to happen if they are not cut off from interacting with their victim.
Again, you cannot predict the future and it is grounds for abuse of power. If a cop thought I was going to abuse my wife and he arrested me preemptively, that’s wrong.
- If we know that somebody, beyond a reasonable doubt, has harassed other people, they're a bad person and they deserve to be deplatformed. People like that deserve to be treated worse than other people because of their conduct.
That is false. Are hecklers bad people. Are the people who followed Sinema into the bathroom bad people? No. They are fighting for their beliefs. Even the mods admitted there was no malice here.
- It is not the responsibility of the site and its users to bear the burden of a harasser's conduct and to try and 'help' them in any way. Harassment to the point of being a ban-worthy offence is self-evidently morally incorrect and that fact shouldn't need to be taught.
The fact of preemptively censoring someone brings the site to a dictatorship. How would you feel if the mods thought you were harassing me right now and banned you.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Pretty sure that's not why he was... wait, is this that weird thing you and GP do where you start talking in weird pop-culture references unrelated to anything other people are saying like an angsty tween having a stroke?
It was mentioned as a reason, along with creating a call out thread.
I’m just trying to figure out whether saying that is an extravagant lie
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Well it's not Nazi Germany and saying it is is pretty extravagant to say so I guess you're technically right that it's an extravagant lie but I wasn't saying that, just pointing out that you were being needlessly over-dramatic. I guess the implication that I was calling you a liar was itself a lie, though that particular lie was hardly extravagant.
But apparently you can be banned for extravagant lies sooooo
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I think I disagree with the ban (comes down to whether Wylted actually threatened to doxx, which idk if he did I haven't seen the post in question) but comparing a 0th world problem like not being allowed on a web site for a few months to Nazi Germany seems... a bit extreme...
Just trying to figure out if it’s an “extravagant lie” or not. Whatever it means ofc
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@TheUnderdog
This would be akin to you travelling to China to dismantle communism.No individual can dismantle communism, so it's better if the anti communist Chinese came over here.
No it wouldn’t, because I’m American by birth. I never said an individual can dismantle communism. I said it’s a group effort.
It's possible. I made a spreadsheet proving it.
Blue cities are already overcrowded as they are. Your spreadsheet is 100% inaccurate and contains flaws. There’s no way you fit a billion people in blue cities.
People move to places they like. If China was their favorite country, they would move to China. But more people move to America than any other country because America is the best country God ever created.
Liking the United States =/= disliking China. You seem to have a problem with theories based on mutual exclusiveness.
So you want to copy communist China? If so, your a communist.
Strawman. I said the people of China need to get rid of communism in China. I never said I support communism, nor would I want communism.
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@TheUnderdog
Are you really expecting an immigrant from China to organize a group within China to dismantle it's communism?
Yes
It would be easier, and better for the US economy if every single undocumented immigrant settled in a blue county.
No it wouldn’t, because it’s impossible.
Billions of people don't want to come to America, but if 1.2 billion extra people entered America, our overall population density is still about half that of England, and I wouldn't call England that overcrowded. America won't overcrowd with a bunch of anti China undocumented immigrants coming here.
They would if they had the opportunity to. Risks far outweigh rewards if you’re in Africa rn for example. Also, what makes you think immigrants will be anti-China lol. Most countries rely on trade with China
Communist big government China is tough on immigration. Capitalist small government America shouldn't be.
Immigration isn’t a mutually exclusive topic with respect to economic ideology
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@TheUnderdog
Obama got plenty criticized when he deported people. Biden also gets criticized for it. But it's possible that the reason Trump deported less people was due to states not coorperating.
During Obama’s presidency? Definitely not. Like I said. Immigration wasn’t controversial during Obama times. Trump was the one who campaigned on immigration, and because Orangeman bad, it became controversial.
Other countries don't have liberty and small government as their ethos; America does.
So rather than changing their own countries, they should just come to ours? Essentially you’re saying we should accept billions of people (hint: we don’t have room for that many)
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@TheUnderdog
Why would California do this to Trump and not to Obama?
Lots of reasons. Immigration wasn’t that big of an issue back then. Deporting illegal immigrants wasn’t controversial when Obama was President.
But when Trump does it, Orangeman bad. We aren’t going to cooperate with them.
I thought people still got deported in California under Trump and Obama.
Not to the same degree. Add Illinois and New York and you get even more.
That might be a lurking variable, but it's still expected that Trump would deport more than Obama and Biden per year.
Not really, because as I mentioned, there was zero cooperation from Democratic states. And the number of people that came across the border declined massively for Biden.
I don't think we should deport anyone, so I'm glad Trump didn't deport as many people.
Well maybe you should go to practically any other country illegal. We’ll see what happens to you lol.
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@Vader
There is a difference between a dox and freedom of speech. The constitution allows you to speak freely unless you spark unneeded fear or such. You would still be arrested for screaming "he's got a gun" in a movie theatre when he didn't have a gun.It doesn't matter if the user was OK with it. If an user was OK with being doxx, that doesn't take away from the action
This is not the topic of the thread. What is an extravagant lie. According to Ragnar, it’s some made up fantasy that isn’t present anywhere in the CoC. So his and frankly all of y’all’s tendencies are authoritarian.
Makes sense coming from two liberals and neocon Romney supporter. How you likin KBJ.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
At this point you’re derailing the thread. I could respond but I want to go back to the original topic of the discussion.
The third reason for Wylted’s ban is a grey area semantically, and the mods even admit that by talking about a loophole. The first two reasons are outright stupid though.
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@Vader
If we didn't allow freedom of speech, ADOL wouldn't be on the site. Doxxing=/=freedom of speech
The doxxing is a grey area and semantically you guys are wrong. But the other two “reasons” are absolutely ridiculous and you know it
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@TheUnderdog
If you measure deportation numbers by the proportion of undocumented immigrants in the US that got deported in a year, Trump still deports less than Obama(Deportation Rates in Historical Perspective | Cato at Liberty Blog)
Have you considered that various states actively prevented federal deportations under Trump? States like California didn’t notify ICE and wouldn’t hand them over.
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