ILikePie5

Owen's claim and quickness to claim makes me lean town on him. He did so pretty much without any major pressure too. 

And honestly, I actually think I'm buying the claim consider what I think Wylted's view of transgenders are. My issue that it could be town negative

I'm torn about pie. You all know him better than I do so I'll stand to the side here.

Is the omgus normal with him?

Not in every case. Some noob trying to get good at reads is the mark of someone trying to get gud. It is not suddenly a scumtell.

Yeah, alarm bells.

It's not just what you know. It's your character and your role, with a brief synopsis of your entry. I'm scanning everything for a fake claim or something spun as town, because I think you were bullshitting us with your "info" for town cred.

You will give it when you get to L-1 or you will get lynched. Go ahead and put up your front; it won't work. There isn't much that can save you here- just a fullclaim or someone else giving hard evidence you're town.

You mean thinking things through, and conceding points where reasonable. And buddying Casey? My willingness to work with her does not mean I automatically have a townread. You can be confident I am keeping tabs on Casey's behavior. Why do you think I ask people questions? It's not just to get help from them.

Wylted is strange. No offense, but he is unusual, even for this site. I can see him writing a whole ass rant about Israel vs Hamas. And the difference between here and Bo Burnham is that Banana made a shitty push on you that lacked good reasoning back then. Looks like the script has flipped here.

Are you second guessing your read on Banana here?

"Hey guys, I'm being bold! I'm town, see?"

Are you okay with just the subject? 

We have 14 people, and scum benefit the longer we drag this on. The deadline is fast approaching. I think we should get a few claims at the very least.

LOL @ the OMGUS

Like, one thing I've noticed about Mharman is that he tends to reason quite openly and be very transparent about his thoughts, but in Inheritance Cycle, he seemed to do that a bit less from my recollection -- not saying as much and letting the town fight itself. The problem is that as scum, you know who is town and thus can generally see the reasons to townread anybody, which makes coming up with solid reasons to scumread someone harder. Townies don't have to fake their scumreads. Mharman copes with this by posting less. You cope with this by trying to find small problems with townies and making them out to be bigger than they really are. That's where what I consider to be bad logic comes into play. You're right that it is largely based on opinion, but to me, it's meaningful. It's why I sus both you and Luna -- your reads on Banana don't feel genuine to me.

I thought it was evidence you actually knew something after all, supporting your softclaim. Apparently not.

You quit at the beginning of DP3. I had a strong sus on you starting at the end of DP1. And if all this is bedsides the point, then what is the point you're trying to make anyway?

Austin was a special case since if he was town after all, GP would just revive him and he'd be confirmed townie, plus he'd lose his negative utility status. Not to mention, his claim to have been doing a reaction test and his pivot to Savant were pretty sus on their own. Earth also made himself a target by claiming to be a DP3 Informed Townie, which is itself a pretty sus claim. So yes, obviously you aren't always correct as town. I never said you were. The difference is that in those games, your reasoning was not bad, it was merely wrong. There's a difference.

Now that's interesting. That does actually make me reconsider things a bit.

This is such a scummy response lol. No, you didn't use the exact words "stop looking at my behavior", but you did tell me that you couldn't be read based on your behavior and directed my attention elsewhere.

That's basically the same thing. It's also not true that people can't read you. I correctly identified you as scum based on behavior during Mayday Mafia as I've already said. Luna also caught you at the end of DP1 of UPick Mafia. Remember this?

Luna was 100% right here. Your logic is bad when you are scum. That's why I sus you, and that's why you're trying to steer the conversation away from your reasoning on Banana.

This statement is actually pretty ironic in this particular game, lol. You'll see why later.

I think you should claim

Okay, so your scum pool consists of everyone who is suspicious of you?

That's not true. Behavior is how you catch people in this game. I knew you were sus from your behavior at the end of DP1 of Mayday Mafia, but I didn't stick to my guns, which I still regret slightly, although the town won that game anyway. The fact that you're telling me NOT to pay attention to your behavior and look elsewhere is inherently very scummy. 

I didn't see him as try to play both sides for Owen. He was being very open and transparent about his thought process, as he does as town. Owen is a null read for reasons he has clearly explained. Also, he's been consistent about his scumreads, and the fact that he voted for you doesn't strike me as odd, especially given how he's made it clear he still suspects Luna more. As for considering the information you (supposedly) have, it's cost-benefit analysis.

Luna's and Pie's tunnel vision is definitely weird. At least Pie is generally aggressive. If this behavior out of the ordinary of Luna?

That wasn't a mere molehill. GP's claim was inherently very sus, and his behavior only hurt his case further. Plus, he had a bona fide scum slip by the end of the day.

That's better reasoning, but you have to consider that this is Wylted we're talking about here. A long diary entry about the Israel-Hamas conflict is hardly inexplicable. I don't think scum Banana would likely choose to make herself stand out in that way.

I disagree. Scum Pie actively (and successfully) pushed Savant in DP1 of UPick Mafia and also aggressively pushed Moozer during DP1 of Mayday Mafia. This is absolutely in line with his scum play, and that's why I don't like it.

Something about that feels odd. I have a gut feeling Casey going straight to Pie and then Mharman coming onto Pie within the hour. I don't like it and it's not because I think they are lynching the wrong person, but just feels staged. 

I did not mean to ping you in the above message. 

Anyway, here’s a question: Does your info have information on another player? I may or may not be willing to back off depending on your answer.

I know Pie says he’s got info that could trip up scum, but at this point with my concerns on him it’s not worth it. Some parts of his thought process feel natural, but the read on Banana is egregious and some of the points feels forced. Not a fan of the semantics. Plus if he’s town id rather have the his information anyway. If he’s willing to give the info later this DP, I can only conclude if he’s town he’s withholding it for what would be a small min-max on an off-chance scum screws up in some vague way, which I’d be willing to give up.

VTL Pie

Btw with the way my PM is structured, the justification was given before Wylted’s tangent, and think it’s a given that Banana’s PM followed this structure.

If yours isnt structured in such a way, that would be ringing alarm bells for me.

As Mharman mentioned, I took a little break from mafia. This is because I was doing terribly at the game. (No explanation needed)  I had a bit of extra time so I decided to give it another swing and make myself a little bit more tolerable of a player instead of just sitting there and doing nothing.

Is that the only reason you find me suspicious?

I don't like Pie and Luna's reasoning for sussing Banana. I think it was obvious that she didn't read the entire PM because it wasn't necessary to understand the justification for her role. Pie in particular is reminding me of DP1 of UPick Mafia, where he excoriated Savant for making a mistake as town. Granted, the way Savant used his role was stupid, but the fact that he even thought confirming himself as a Vote Thief would be a good move was evidence of a townie thought process, not a scummy one. Here, the supposedly scummy behavior is far more minor and unimportant, but Pie and Luna are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, and I don't like it one bit. I think it might be a good idea to push one of them for a claim.

VTL Pie 

Better for yourself? Of course. That's not the purpose of government.

My point here is that you might not be operating with the same definition she is. I think the big picture is that she saw a bunch  of paragraphs, and didn’t think it was worth the effort.

I don’t like the idea of punishing him for trying to get good at the game.

I will admit however, that his reads have crossed my mind. Ya know how I find it weird how people believed some claims a little to quick? I felt Owen was a little quick as well. The defense of Banana is good and all, but even I had a slight hesitation.

The thing is, the point Owen did raise about Banana was a point I had been thinking about at the time. Until Banana mentioned her PM contained a tangent about Israel vs Hamas, the debate in my mind was about whether or not Banana felt the need to overshare for town cred (banking on a defense like Owen’s) or if it was just simply mentioning it as a complaint about the long PM. I also wondered if she was looking for other people with long PMs while operating on some flawed theory.

All this to say: Until she mentioned Israel-Hamas, I was cautious about the claim as well, whereas Owen believed it from the get go.

the thing is, what Owen said is precisely one of the points in my mind in that debate and I can see Owen’s thought process here. I wouldn’t surprised if scum split themselves on a sus, but I don’t think Owen’s take, albeit a little quick, was that egregious. There might be a little something there, but Owen’s reasoning is not the least logical thing I’ve seen this DP

and with regards to Banana, I don’t think she needs to read the entirety of her PM to extract the character, role and justification. Mine were all given at the start before Wylted went on a much shorter tangent. I read all mine, but mine was probably nowhere near as long as hers.

Yes, it is probably better if Banana reads the whole thing, but I see why she would not read all that, even if it’s not optimal and lazy of her. 

I imagine she just skimmed it quickly and that’s how she knows it’s about Israel vs Hamas.

I’m counting that as a claim. Not in the traditional sense of the word, just that you have claimed to know something, and we have to figure out whether we can believe you or not.

Like seriously, how can one not be suspicious of Pie, Vader, or Lunatic, but be suspicious of Banana?

It’s a shift in behavior. Given that it’s been a while since he’s been in one of these games and how a lack of clarity on his reads has affected games in the past, it’s a welcome change, even if it’s off brand. 

So why give the information at the end of the DP and not now? People are gonna know going into the night phase, and I think it’s better for town to know while daylight is out. What utility could there possibly be in waiting to give such information?

Do you plan on being the hammer for this DP?

Because it does not relate to the functionality of my role, and quite frankly I don't care about israel and hamas. 

Hello all. My Role PM was 14 messages long. I didn't read the whole thing, but I got the idea of it. 

Ok I don't know if I should claim this early but fuck it basically I could probably role confirm myself in DP2. I just need 3 votes in this DP and I get a NP action that role confirms me 

Trust Barney. He seems like someone who would know.

My character is carcinization 

My role is Crab God 

I do not get to know what the crab God does

14 players? Damn

haven’t played mafia in a couple months so this is gonna be interesting