ILikePie5

Sorry about the confusion. I can give someone the ability to rolestop once every night by giving them an invention

So im not gonna directly claim, but I will say my role also deals with role prevention. That's now three different claims in a similar category. I am not saying one of the three of us has to be scum because of this, but it is interesting. At the very least, it lends a lot more credit to the idea of a strengthener. 

I am a role blocker, not a role stopper, but it looks like I can just directly stop someone's role at night, where he can give someone else the ability to do that if  I am understanding correctly. So I guess it is kind of different, but still feels a little too close to the same to me.

My legacy role:

When I die I can send a message to any player who has received an invention .  It can be up to 200 characters. 

Justification:

Because of the pilots mistake, generations after him have learned and been able to prevent future accidents. His error sent a message to all other future pilots to avoid the same mistake. 

Nows a good time for me to claim is seems 

Air France flight 447.  The flight crashed due to pilot incompetency. The plane was losing speed, and started to fall. The pilot could have recovered by going down to gain speed, but instead, he pulled up, stopping the plane and killing all passengers. Therefore, I am a rolestopper-inventor. I'm not sure where the inventor part comes in. 

I dunno, he convinced me.

Lets lynch pie

Don't be afraid. Once he's dead he can't intimidate you anymore.

I have a theory, but you’re enough of an experienced player that I’ll trust you and go along with it

You’re still my number one target for the lynch this DP.

Because I just played mafia with moozer and this doesn't feel like his scum reaction. He was much more prone to mistake in that game, and it was miracle he survived as long as he did.

His reactions and responses feel very genuine here in comparison, and the biggest argument against him is that his role justification is a stretch, which I have already stated mine is too. And I thought a lot of the role links in indian politicians were stretches too.

Without being privy to context sometimes it's hard to see the role link the mod had in mind. Hell sometimes as mod, I have an idea for role and I want to put that role in so badly that I will purposely stretch a justification for a character to make it work, even though there are way better roles than can fit it. Moozer's answers and information about his role all sounds completely legit to me. I don't know he is town, I just know the reasons he is being pushed aren't good. I'd be more okay with the push if their were behavioral reasons going with the analysis.

Pie has a history of righteous indignation, and frequently leads mislynches. He is very aggressive as a scum player (he is as town too) but I feel like his logic will be a little looser to achieve his objectives as scum.

Pie has a history of leading the mislynch and trying to pass off the scummy behavior as part of the person who was mislynched fault, or the mods  fault, or virtually anyone but his fault. Anyways he's not always wrong, but the looser the logic, and the heavier the push, it feels more like his scum games to me. I am not picking up the same warning signs about moozer as he is, and for me that is screaming at me that this is scum pie pushing a mislynch. 

Kind of drunk last thing I remember was pressuring pie and now I’m seeing votes in me so without having caught up I’m assuming he just flipped the script somehow and argued that I’m scum and without me being here you all just bandwagoned him or something

Why specifically one? Why not both? Because if we're going to pressure both, there's a good chance both are going to need to claim regardless.

I'm considering the possibility of a Lunatic-Owen team. It's looking a little far ahead without flips, but I don't like either of them independently and there is one thing that makes me suspect it as a pairing. Back in Post 110, Lunatic forgets Owen entirely in the reads list, then drops him in null a moment later. That is a red flag to me both because forgetting to put your teammate on a list is a slip that's reasonably common (among slips, anyway), and because in my experience, wolves like to put each other in null slots.

Owen is a low poster, but Lunatic still managed to have me in lean Town and Moozer in strong Town even though we were both also low posters at the time. Is Owen that hard to read?

No one seems to be hearing me, so I’ll make one final push and then drop it. Lunatic had some really weird reads, (I recommend that you go back to find them) and he hasn’t been as active as usual. He called pie out for being aggressive but he of all people should know that’s how he plays by now. I’m not saying he should definitely be the lynch, but I think he deserves more attention.

Someone stop me from deathtunneling this. 

Right now, I find myself unsatisfied with Luna's behavior, for the same reasons as Moozer and Cerulean. He seems way too sure that Moozer is town imo. I'm not convinced that he's scum either, but he's more of a tilt town for me. Feels almost like he's trying too hard to push against a mislynch in order to seem less sus. 

Uberligen has an episode. Good catch.

In all fairness, I did also sus Moozer's claim at first -- see post #94. It's only when he claimed his legacy role that I really began to change my mind. 

Can’t remember which one of you it was that asks, but it turns out that when I die and the info is released, the number stays the same. It always represents the total number of fatalities of every living or dead player in the game.

This is par the course for Pie, but he does seem a little off.

I agree with Lunatic. Pie has been way too aggressive. Is that normal for him?

vtl pie

Pie is getting a bit too loose with his logic for a mislynch for my liking. I am at dinner so I can post more in depth later on

Oh come on you can’t judge someone as scum because they have a role that doesn’t “help town”. We have a miller claim as well as Ana claimed a scum role..

That's a good question. I do find that a bit odd, though I could still see it potentially being in the game. Right now, I'd like to hear a little more from Banana and Cerulean. They haven't spoken up in a bit. 

What's the point of Austin telling Moozer what the number is, but not letting him say it? Wouldn't it be better if Austin went "when you die, I will announce the total number of fatalities of every character combined."?

Because then the legacy role would be redundant. The whole point is to get the players active in the game so that they can actually give their team an advantage. 

All the legacy roles activate upon death. It's plainly stated in the OP. 

It's early town info, before even NP1. Besides, it's clear that the whole point of the legacy roles is to get people involved and active in the game. No freebie advantages to the town.

Actually that's true, I realized after I made my post that  the total would also presumably include scum claims, not just town claims. In that case you're right, there would be no way to solve the game so easily DP1, but I still think Moozer's legacy would be useful to the town. Given what we know about scum's manipulative potential, I think Moozer's claim is very interesting. I'm actually more willing to buy it now that he's expanded on it.

I just have a bad feeling about this lynch lol...

Yes, but you could find all the ways to add up the numbers from all the claims and all the flips and figure out which set of claims adds up to the actual total. Most likely there would only be one or two, which would make the PoE trivial for town. That's why the scum team would need to be able to interfere with flips.

Look at it this way. Moozer shares the total number of fatalities from all the incidents in the game. We force a mass claim and have everyone reveal their character, then look for every possible way the numbers could add up to Moozer's total. Chances are, there'd only be one. We then kick out the scum. Game is solved DP1. Completely unfair to the scum team. If Moozer is telling the truth about his legacy role, he'd have to be forbidden from sharing the number. It's the only way it could be balanced.

It's not so much as me believing his claim, but the fact that I can see him being Strengthener.

Although, I will admit his claim is kinda odd and would like him to fully clarify.

Again, this is an area where Moozer is being ambiguous, but I don't think the number is based on the number of players remaining, I think it's just a static, unchanging number based on all the players. If Moozer is telling the truth, however, then scum HAVE to have a Janitor or a Tailor. The game would be too town sided otherwise. 

Okay, turns out I was wrong and I can claim my legacy role. Because no one died on my flight, I have access to the total number of deaths on all of these flights. I can't share it, but It will be released upon my death.

You have a profound distaste for millers though.

Are you that sure from a couple posts that Moozer is scum that you would lynch him over a potential liability like the miller?

I get that Pie and I are on the same wavelength (which is generally rare - it didn’t even typify our game as scum together), but is your basis for sussing me really that I tend to be better at catching scum slips? I appreciate the sentiment, but two claims on the table, I’m working with what I have. Not finding a scum slip isn’t scummy. Pointing out a clear deviation from an existing claim and my own isn’t scummy. As for not being passive, in a game where posting a lot more is a mechanic, yes, you can bet I’m going to engage more and push more people to give their thoughts. I said that much up front.

What is a miller and why is earth being pressured for being one?

I buy all the claims right now. Earth doesn't strike me as a risky move maker as scum, I don't think he claims something ballsy like miller. Thats more of a wylted or a lunatic move IMO. I am almost willing to town confirm him for that.

Moozer I buy as well, not as strongly convinced he is town, but also a bit of mod psyche here, I don't know how likely it is to score scum twice in a row, plus I didn't notice any blaring mistakes.

Moozer kind of made mistakes claiming when I was scum with him, though he did have ample time to prepare. I also kind of town read him because I am sensing that he is the intended mislynch for today.

Unfortunately I am scum reading pie and whiteflame a bit for their over eagerness to lynch moozer. Moozer feels like an easy mislynch target today.

Prima facie, it sounds legit to me. 

Because I'm pretty sure that wasn't actually Earth; I think the whole guide was copy-pasted from an old DDO thread. Mharman himself commented this on it:

Consider the following hypothetical: Moozer has 4 votes, and I have 4 votes. You haven't voted, and there is little time left in the day. Who are you voting?

It just struck me as interesting how Earth claimed pretty much instantly, which led me to believe he probably wasn't lying. In retrospect, I think I might have been underestimating the probability of him being scum. It just seemed unlikely to me that scum would so quickly claim a role which tends to get lynched early like that, though I guess it does depend on playstyle. Some players are more risk-averse than others. I will say that I've seen Earth as scum twice, once in a game that I modded, and I don't feel like he'd be the type to claim Miller instantly, but I could be wrong. In any case, the justification checks out to me. 

Alright, I wasn’t expecting this so soon, but I get it. I’m the Gimli Glider and I’m a strengthener due to the heroism of the Pilots in landing the plane with zero casualties. I don’t think I can claim my legacy role.