ILikePie5

Doesn't matter. You're setting the mislynch up and you've been setting it up.

Nice little extortion to get your hands on an all-important PR. Nice job, you know how to pressure TIs who fuck up when they were posting at 1am.

Also, I gave some reasons why I'm town. Of course you'd ignore them.

Why'd I do it as town last game then? You ignored that piece of evidence. Convenient, isn't it?

I thought about it more. That's what changed. You just latched onto him for no reason, and latched onto me as quick. I may have felt at the time that the one reason you gave was compelling, but at the end of the day, if you have nothing else, that reason is weak on its own.

Potentially. It would explain the dumb latches... but so would you being scum.

You call it OMGUS, I call it accusingsomeone who's hard claimhunting like a bozo if he's town. If the OMGUS, is right, there's no problem, now is there?

1. How bad his logic is. I've explained everything I've done and I've shown that I've done it before in previous games when I'm town. Let's honest here, do you really think someone can fake all this? I didn't do it last game but was accused last game by Austin. Second, if I was scum I would've been paying more attention to the point where I wouldn't have forgotten/got confused about Wylted's claim in the first place. Tired as I may have been, everyone's claim would have been fresh in my mind. If were scum, I'd be hunting claims as hard as he is.

2. His claimhunting. He started with Wylted for sketchy reasoning, and is looking so hard for claims in a game where there is no themesplit and all that can be gathered from analyzing characters is the PR. It benefits scum more than any other faction.

3. Two games ago I said my claim would do more harm than good. He backed off then... why isn't he now?

4. There's a TP in this game. I wouldn't be surprised at a TP lyncher.

What's Omgus?

Are we actually taking this claim at face value? I immediately assumed he was screwing around.

Jack schitt is apparently a 2023 horror film and it's like a slasher film. I think once he soft claimed my role and I noticed it, he is trying to change his character and claim he was joking

Unvote (this was a stale vote on joebob)

I can imagine what soft you might think is being talked about here, though I'm not certain we're on the same page about it. Hm. Avoiding a claim at L-2 is interesting considering if your role is as important as you seem to be portraying, you'd probably want to... not get lynched.

I don't trust you and I'm curious about your claimhunting. Your logic is BS and I think you know it. Are you scum or TP? Trying to figure that out.

It's sarcasm headasses

My character is Jack Shit and my role is the Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Laser Beans out of its Ass.

Get off my wagon; it’s only gonna do more harm than good.

On average,  Wylted is more likely to be town than scum, which means that him claiming will benefit scum in most gamestates. You're reading too much into the way that Mharman phrased things.

Yeah, Pie is probably town because I've seen him pull this before, but I'm not going to be joining this wagon.

I still don't really understand the basis for the Mharman wagon here. At this point in the game, with no strong reads,  we ought to assume that making a random person claim is negative expected value for town, as they're more likely to be a townie forced to reveal their role than a scum locked into a claim.

Can you explain what part of Mharman's response is alignment indicative?

As for the Wylted train, I don't think it's that great of an idea to get his claim. All that's going to do is help scum sort out who has the stronger PRs from the weaker ones. Sure, they'd be doing a lot of guesswork, but I'll be educated guesswork, and I'm not comfortable giving them more information to work with.

It seems Mharman is the most popular choice to get a full claim from.

Right now, I still feel like the Pie v Mharman argument is most likely a Town v. Town fight, but reading back through it, I'm a little less convinced that's the case. At the same time, Mharman's evasiveness could just be because he has a PR and doesn't want it to be revealed. I'm fine with no full claim, but I wouldn't be against pressuring him for a character claim.

It would help scum.narrow down PRs though.  If I have a week role, they narrow the pool and if I reveal and have a PR than they know precisely where the PRs are. 

I don't like his response to the pressure but I don't agree with you that somebody being cautious about exposing PRs would be scummy. 

If he showed contradictory logic and didn't give crap about exposing power roles in his last town game or something, perhaps I would change my mind, but I disagree with the logic. With that said, his response feels fishy and I would like him to full claim, so I don't want to talk you out of your logic too much

I have to study but the one thing keeping me from believing this is thay mharman seems to be a bit evasive. I disagree with pie's logic but mharman's response to pie's logic is interesting

I think Mharman vs Pie is probably TvT honestly.

… then you should mention to everyone you’re pinging that I’m saying my mistake was because I missed/forgot details and got confused when I wasn’t thinking clearly (again, late at night).

Dude. It was late at night. My brain wasn't exactly firing on all cylinders. So yeah, I can forget stuff in one paragraph and remember it the next. The paragraph I cited earlier, when read does show I was thinking of the consequences of Wylted outing his character, meaning that my whole logic on not wanting to claim was taken from my normal thought process on getting claims, forgetting that he had claimed. 

Then, when I went to read back your post and so I could ask questions at the end of that post of mine because I'm wondering if you see something in Wylted that I don't, I read all your concerns on him and got reminded of the character claim and asked that question at the end, without thinking about how that would change my reasoning in the first paragraph, because I wasn't think about my own reasoning, because I was tired and not thinking clearly. That's why those two paragraphs are a contradiction, not because I'm "lying my ass off" but because I wasn't able to think clearly about things and am prone to missing details and confusing myself when that happens.

A slight town read is enough of a town read to make me not want a claim. Yes, I am that cautious.

Cautious nature? Dude we're in DP1 and we're all trying to figure this shit out. You've seen me play cautious and conservative before, many times. Even when I was confident Casey was scum two games ago, and Austin was scum last game, I still didn't pressure people to quicklynch. When the rest of town wanted me to hammer Casey in CoC, I still had questions. When Whiteflame said he was hesitant to vote Austin, I said that's fair.

How are you going to say that I'm contradicting my past behavior over a situation, that you yourself say was a different situation (last minute scramble)?

Austin said the same thing of me last game after I posted this. Was that also me backtracking and lying my ass off? No, it was me explaining my behavior after I got confused and made a mistake.

I misread your post when you said he wanted his role claim because I forgot and got confused, and forgot Wylted had claimed. By the time I remembered, I didn't think about how it should change my thought process. This is similar, if not the same to how I got confused on Austin and Savant in last game, as explained in the post I linked above.

I don't understand your Owen read. This is Owen's second game and he was mislynched DP1 on his first. You can't exactly base behavior off of that.

So Pie has latched on to Mharman pretty hard here. Knowing Pie, this is typical of both his town play and his mafia play, so I can't really make anything of it either way. I'm going to have to reread the discussion, but right now I feel the same way as Cerulean -- this might just be a town v. town fight. I saw one of those happen last game and it ended up losing the town the whole game. 

Question. 

Everyone seem really interested in figuring out people's roles. since we're all villains, does it really matter?

Do you mind being a little more detailed about this, Pie? I understand the gist of it, but are you specifically saying that the town version of Mharman frequently angles for full claims on people, even those he townreads, on Day 1? Or something else? My worry here is that you might be comparing apples and oranges of different contexts.

I don’t know who’s what for sure. But I do townread him. If I think someone is town, why the hell should I push for a full claim on him?

Ok so I’m an idiot and completely misread the sentence where you said full claim. I also forgot that the Billy Mitchell claim was Wylted’s while we were talking about it.

I don’t know how I managed to do that (imma just blame the fact that I was online at 1am), but you can see this when I say:

As for the Wylted train, I don't think it's that great of an idea to get his claim. All that's going to do is help scum sort out who has the stronger PRs from the weaker ones. Sure, they'd be doing a lot of guesswork, but I'll be educated guesswork, and I'm not comfortable giving them more information to work with.

… implying that I am fearful that scum might use Wylted’s character claim to figure out if he has a strong or weak PR. 

I want more depth on your reasoning as to why you think we should get his claim. Why is his character strange to you? And what's to stop Wylted from having a good fake claim in this game, where it can be anything that interests him? Do you really think he's so bad at fake claiming that he would fail to come up with a good one here? Are there any additional reasons to get his claim that you have in mind?

By the way, I’m still not convinced on getting a full claim from Wylted. I never said “we should never get claims”… that’s putting words into my mouth. If we have a massive FOS on someone, that’s fair. Otherwise, I’m not a fan of this claim hunting spree you’re tryna go on.

You always ask new players about the extent of their past experience with forum mafia. Why didn't you do that with Cerulean?

I'm not following your case. He initially didn't want Wylted to claim, then changed his mind when he thought that Wylted claiming would provide more expected value to town (in the form of Wylted being incompetent if he's scum). What's the contradiction there?

PART 1: As for the Wylted train, I don't think it's that great of an idea to get his claim. All that's going to do is help scum sort out who has the stronger PRs from the weaker ones. Sure, they'd be doing a lot of guesswork, but I'll be educated guesswork, and I'm not comfortable giving them more information to work with.

PART 2: I want more depth on your reasoning as to why you think we should get his claim. Why is his character strange to you? And what's to stop Wylted from having a good fake claim in this game, where it can be anything that interests him? Do you really think he's so bad at fake claiming that he would fail to come up with a good one here? Are there any additional reasons to get his claim that you have in mind?

Pie: So you don’t want to get a claim from anyone? Why?

Pie: He sucks at fake role claiming, so he’ll either claim something crazy or something that will likely be CCed somehow.

Mharman: Oh you mean fake role claiming when you say he sucks. This is a compelling point, I'll give you that.

Honestly most people should ve at the very least character claiming unless you literally picked like an evil cop like from terminator 2 or candy man who would obviously be a doctor. I assume most of us didn't make ignorant picks like that though

I'm not full claiming.

That's fair, but that may also depend on thing your character is from.

Not yet. A full character claim will make things easier for the scum team. Unless we have a good FOS on someone, I say we shouldn't pressure a claim out of them.

Many of the characters here are going to be niche. They're either selected by the people in this game or by Lunatic, based on our/Lunatic's interests. I've heard of Billy Mitchell though. I would say he's pretty villainous.

Oh you mean fake role claiming when you say he sucks. This is a compelling point, I'll give you that.

He is a fucking here to me. He wins donkey Kong with the same flair and maybe even tactics that I win survivor or the presidential election with. Also he is hilarious 

We all picked characters and there is no theme. The character being odd is not even as odd as the one I picked the last time we did this

As for the Wylted train, I don't think it's that great of an idea to get his claim. All that's going to do is help scum sort out who has the stronger PRs from the weaker ones. Sure, they'd be doing a lot of guesswork, but I'll be educated guesswork, and I'm not comfortable giving them more information to work with.

I'm just going to say this: The thing my character is from doesn't have a whole lot of notable villains. I'll consider telling you either the thing they're from or the year they were born. I won't give you both.

As for the Wylted train, I don't think it's that great of an idea to get his claim. All that's going to do is help scum sort out who has the stronger PRs from the weaker ones. Sure, they'd be doing a lot of guesswork, but I'll be educated guesswork, and I'm not comfortable giving them more information to work with.

I want more depth on your reasoning as to why you think we should get his claim. Why is his character strange to you?

And what's to stop Wylted from having a good fake claim in this game, where it can be anything that interests him?

Do you really think he's so bad at fake claiming that he would fail to come up with a good one here? Are there any additional reasons to get his claim that you have in mind?

Pie - Neutral: I feel like he's talking the whole "let's limit scum's fake claims" thing a little far. There's only so many hints as to what your character is before it gets too easy for mafia to guess.

Some franchises/IRL things have enough villains to facilitate asking "where's your character from", and some don't. Baiting people into making a guess easier is something scum Pie would do. However, the other side of the coin is that a lot of what he's saying seems like a continuation of Casey's idea after reading the DP. I've also seen Pie come up with plans that he strongly believes are correct as town, and this fits that. All in all, I'm not entirely sure what to make of it. I need to see more.