ILikePie5

My gut is telling me pie is town. I hope I’m not wrong but if I am it’s whatever. Let’s move in to the next one.

How so? You've seen  what the host confirmed to me about shots being able to be kept through a failure.

The determination would be if their power makes them invincible, or untargetable.

A role blocker could have as well. But I think the means of Casey's power in it of itself would let the shot be kept. Further, less likely to be a role blocker on the scum team with that power already in play making a scum untargetable.

Is there no scum role that could be used as an interfering factor?

Or a scum role that blocked or prevented wylted from acting… in which case you would have inside knowledge of this for your smoking gun

Sorry to say it man but this indicates to me you are scum. I got the same answer with a really big defining difference at the end, I see no reason why Austin would have clarified that difference to me and not to you. I am gonna wait in one more answer him just to make sure but this isn’t looking good

Sorry to say it man but this indicates to me you are scum. I got the same answer with a really big defining difference at the end, I see no reason why Austin would have clarified that difference to me and not to you. I am gonna wait in one more answer him just to make sure but this isn’t looking good

When you asked Austin this was this his exact answer? Are you omitting anything from the answer at all?

Casey – you are “Un Chien Andalou.” You win with the mafia.

Meaning? What Meaning? (Passive) - I’m sure that there’s some deep meaning behind your movie... but good luck figuring it out. Any players targeting you will have their action fail.

Basically the shirt kill would be refunded if failed for targeting interference (let's call this magic).

The shirt would be lost if if the kill failed for more normal reasons (let's call this physical).

Please ask Austin if a Vig shot on Casey would result in the shot being used up or not. 

The new information I shared was from Austin. 

Casey's power seems more like the first than the second.

It’s still wierd he would do that because the logic would have relied on him knowing Casey would flip right? And Wylted didn’t like directly bus him or anything. 

I already did ask Austin. So you are saying that Wylted never targeted anyone with it, just claimed to, and held onto the gun. Okay but I still feel like it would be wierd for him not to just shoot literally anyone else.

I guess it could be a big brain way to use Casey to confirm himself later on? 

Okay so then where did the vig shot that killed earth randomly come from? Are you saying earth killed moozer? Why?

If that lynch was already set in stone 5 minutes into the DP when I voted her and then made zero effort to get anyone on her wagon then why did you claim you watched her?

This is a lot more transparent than you think it is. This tactic works zero percent of the time. Nobody is going g to change their vote in fear that you will think they are stupid. You did the same thing with lunatic.

Not really you mentioned that things may not have worked out like I assumed they have. You have more information about that than me, so if I am wrong about what occurred when I used the vig shot, I am willing to entertain other theories.

Doesn't work as a bus. Nobody scum reads somebody for not getting shot 

Doesn't work as town cred to claim a vig nor does it help by complicating things by digging somebody the next day. It's ilogical.

I admit it's possible that my vig was stolen and that it coincidentally was also used on earth. I doubt that is what happened but it could of and if it did it wouldn't make pie magically town.

Plus as scum why pretend to have tried to shoot the other one, instead of saving the bullet?

I can read and not be convinced.

Partly I was a fan of The Apprentice for the first season. Him firing someone doesn’t click with him watching them. Could be a power balancing thing, but him sexually harassing people’s wives would make more sense for an investigation power.

There was also a ton of talk today about how Wyited didn’t really try to shoot Casey. While not assured, we now know that if he did as he said the shot most likely would have been refunded.

Plus as scum why pretend to have tried to shoot the other one, instead of saving the bullet? Heck saved for tonight would have allowed a sneak victory.

Basically the shirt kill would be refunded if failed for targeting interference (let's call this magic).

Reviewing abilities (you're fired is hard for me to believe), the increased likelihood that the shot failed to be fired, and more (can't write for too long at work).

VTL Orange Pie

And I must agree with the sentiment that there are too many posts. Wyited should make a defense and an attack, either as one post, or two. Likewise with Pie. Then they defend, and lastly offer a final reply... That should be better than hundreds of posts; instead a small number of meaningful detailed ones.

lmao if I had my ego in this I would have voted you already. I am patiently waiting for barney at the moment. 

Could it really just be as simple as it being wylted who just thought earth would be a bigger threat than me in the endgame?

What is with this new scum meta of fighting like this and just delaying the game. It was annoying when Austin did it last game also. It honestly needs to stop. I liked the good old fashioned, one mega post to defend yourself on the off chance somebody is dumb enough to believe you and quietly walking away. 

There is also no need to tag me in posts. Neither one of us are going to add anything, and nothing either of us say is going to effect the final decision. It is just begging at this point. I am willing to make a pact with you. 

You place your vote on me and both of us just quit contributing to the game unless we are asked a direct question from Barney or Lunatic

By poe if scum earth kills pie than the remaining scum is between 

Earth and wylted

Why do you think that is preferable than maximizing the odds of a mistake by MAKING POE

EARTH WYLTED PIE

This is pre-mylo logic, and either way, he would have known he would have had to go into MYLO with one of me or barney. It just seems weird he would go into mylo with both of town reading you, just to kill earth who would be the only other potential mislynch here besides you, who would have been less likely to be mischopped by your own logic.

Because the shot on pie wasn't going through, according to wylted's information from the PM. It indicates that earth at least semi bought into the logic that you were town based on caseys flip. Also again, I am not entirely sure he could have vigged anyway as I pointed out already. He needed the majority of his mason pm to accomplish that, and if wylted suspected him and moozer was the night kill (would his vote have even counted?) then he couldn't reach a majority decision.

Unless he actually thought earth was scum, which he probably did at this point. We weren't at MYLO at this point, so wylted had every reason to believe you were town prior to entering the day phase. He thought the last scum was between me and earth and you convinced him I was town, so logically he went after earth believing POE made him the last scum. You wouldn't have been a suspect at this point.

Like I said, I agree he could have played the role better. But random votes wouldn't really help him anyway, he would need votes of people he suspects, or POE people. He would have needed like me and earth on his wagon for example for it to be worth anything. Casey was dead to rights, and you were looking like confirmed town, moozer was innocent, and barney is objectively town read.

I said that EOD1, before I claimed my role....

I am misunderstanding something, this doesnt make sense to me.

I mean he's come just as clean as you have.

The counter wifom argument to this, is that it would have made you look scummier. When no one fessed up to the magistrate, it would have been obvious that either you did it, or scum did it. In which case, it wouldn't have really made you look better at all.

It would be a 1x thing. But yeah your and wylteds roles do feel like they play opposites, which I guess is already known at this point. One of you or wylted is scum. I can see one of your roles existing as town and the other as scum.

I think it just shows that earth was convinced by the bus and caseys flip. Town players tend to be pretty blind to busses. It shows that earth wasn't confident enough to kill you, that's all. Doesn't show that he wanted to kill wylted instead though, as you are implying. 

OKay i'll give you that you couldn't use your role on casey, unless austin made scum have some wierd bypass for the role. As far as whether you could use it on yourself, all I have is your word on that, and as scum of course you would say that. At best it's a null thing

To be completely fair here, I can see a world where you are town, and everything you've done makes sense as town. And I am worried about getting tunnel vision here. I could be underestimating wylted severely. I think I'll back off for a while and consider things, and I do want to see what barney's thoughts are and I don't really want them to be influenced by my own confirmation bias.

Why would he as scum try convince barney to lynch earth over you? If wylted is scum, he 100% uses earth to lynch you. Bringing me into the day phase was a wild card. Your argument that he was able to convince me, is based on the contingency that you think Wylted is big brained enough to hope that I would buy into night kill analysis so much that it changed my opinion on him being scum last day phase. You already indicated you don't think that highly of wylteds scum play for one. For two, leaving me alive in hopes that I would change my mind is a way bigger gamble than even you took with bussing casey assuming you are scum. I just don't see a world in which I am alive if wylted is scum.

Changed his mind about vigging you, not that you weren't scum.

That was probably only contingent on the fact casey flipped scum. I don't think earth was considering the possibility of a bus. That said, wylted still would have had a better time of convincing earth than me in LYLO, he even had an extra avenue of communication to allow him to do that. The fact that he paranoia shot him almost screams townie mistrust.

Look at the end of every day phase. None of the lynch trains have him as a wagon, so how could he have used his role? I'll agree with you that he probably should have advocated someone he suspects vote for him, but he would have had to give up his role for that to make any sense. He could have played the role better for sure.

It’s not bullshit though. I might have understood it better if you had come out with it. It seems like you only claimed this as a nail in the coffin argument against wylted, and hoped no one would question it.

And you already admitted that you thought it would cause an argument with me and you. But if you thought it would, then that means you see the similarity between the roles enough that it should have made you suspect me.

So your answers leave me with two conclusions:

Conclusion 1: You knew I was town, and didn't want to get into with me because it would make one or the other of us look bad. If you knew I am town, it’s because I am not in your scum pm with you. And the reason you didn't mention it was because you wanted me alive to use towards a mislynch.

Conclusion 2: The role is either fake (claimed for extra ammo), or is some variation of an actual scum information role which also makes sense considering town had two vigilante abilities at their disposal.

Simply not having an answer for why you would hide this doesn't do you any favors.

1. It makes no conceivable sense for wylted to not have vigged me over earth. If he knew he was going into lylo and only needed one more mislynch, earth would have helped him lynch pie. I was deadset that wylted was scum last day phase. Wylted had scum read me until right towards the end when pie convinced him I was town. Wylted could have just as easily killed me and justified the kill, and then used earth to get an easy mislynch on pie, if he was scum and pie was town. Where on the other hand pie would have been much more likely to keep me alive to kill wylted, based on where I was at at the end of the day phase.

2. Pie's passive ability makes no sense to me being town. It essentially functions like my role, but it just adds a bunch of extra information to it. Why does town need all that information? Why did pie hide that part of his role until dp4? When I asked him his answer was basically "I did what I did" or to downplay it, but it really doesn't make sense imo to hide that part of his role. It's not like it increases his threat to scum severely, he already had basically used an ability that was suppose to "town confirm" him with his magistrate ability. Which I am now questioning is a magistrate. It doesn't publicly announce that the person using it is town, it could just as easily been used to prevent scum from being mislynched. Its a role that functions as a way to give mafia some role confirmation though, and I don't think it's actual title is magistrate. 

e why shoot Earth over Pie? Earth backed off last second—the only logical explanation for this is that he thought Wylted was scum and Pie was town, which is why he vetoed the shot. There is no other explanation. If there is, please let me know.

no, I just don't care what order my POE's get lynched or killed in

It should also be noted it looked like casey was getting lynched without pie claiming to have watched the attempted NK. As town if i watched somebody commit an NK and they looked like they were getting lynched, I would just keep it to myself. It wasn't outted to secure a lynch but get town confirmation

This is my whole point on why wylted probably isn't scum though. Earth had indicated he would vig shot you already, and if wylted was scum, why would he go into MYLO with both people indicating that they were wanting him dead in dp3?

Me and you were both like deadset he was the last scum with casey. There's no universe scum wylted leaves me alive, when he could have easily justified killing me and tried to use earth to mislynch you. Earth, who we know, already wanted to vig you because he had publicly stated that he would.

Are you purposefully misunderstanding wylteds role? Or do you just not actually understand he needs to be lynched in order to sensor someone on his lynch?

He is pretty much using that argument already with the earth vig though. If it was just as scummy either way, why not just eliminate the bigger threat?

By vigging me, he would have left earth alive in MYLO. Earth has been pretty open about wanting you dead, and even said he was going to vig you at the start of last day phase. In his POV he would have a way easier time getting a mislynch on you as scum by leaving earth alive here.

Where this logic falls apart, is that if he's scum with control of the vig kill, he can use it on almost any townie he wants to and can justify it. He had me in his scum POE all last day phase, and was only convinced otherwise by you at the end. Why even bother letting himself be convinced, when he can just get rid of me, who was practically GG'ing him at the end there where it would have seemed obvious I hammer him in a lylo situation, where he could just kill me and substantiate it the same way he was last day phase.

Wylted "cop power" is actually a sensor, and it sounds like he can't use it until he is lynched. He was never lynched, how could he use this ability?

Your excuse for not outing your role is basically "my actions are my actions" essentially "it is what it is".

If you aren't going to give a town reason for doing this, all I have left is to assume you had a scum reason for doing this. Which is that my ability is basically a CC to that, and as you pointed out, you didn't want to claim it because you thought it would distract the day phase. But this would have indicated you thought I was town confirmed, and if you virtually counter claim me with your role, you have no reason to town confirm me. It makes no sense that I would be in your town POE except that you wanted to use me to mislynch wylted in LYLO. If you arent able to provide a town reason for not outing this role, I have only to assume the scum motivations.  Or that the role is in fact made up.

Your role just adds clarification to my role, and it doesn't make sense for town to have all that information. My role already forced casey into having to scum lock a passive role. Why does town need two roles like this one that clarifies killing actions? Further why did you think there wouldn't be multiple voting utility roles in the day phase, but thought there would be multiple action defining ones???

?? 

At the end of last day phase, me and you were assuredly talking about how we would come into this day phase lynching wylted. At that point I was all but sure he was scum. He actually scum read me too, until you changed his mind towards the end of the day phase. My question is, why would he target earth over me if he was actually scum? If he was scum he knew leaving me alive was a liability based on my EOD stance in dp3. Earth was just as likely to misvig if he even vigged at all. 

I should have been killed last night, the only reason I am alive now is if someone wanted to use me to get a mislynch. Earth only ever indicated wanting to use the vig kill on you, and outside of that he was only lynching casey last day phase. With you convincing wylted I was town last day phase, his action actually makes sense here as town. If he was scum I would be dead

I think wylted can be chaotic, and maybe a bit rash, but I don't think he is illogical. I think he is actually a very decent mafia player when he has his head in the game. He is just as likely to do something stupid because he acted without thinking, but the kind of decision making you are implying here doesn't sound like something scum wylted does at all. And usually wylted admits when he did something stupid because he overlooked a thing, or didn't think of a thing. Also I don't get your point with the moozer thing, moozer never claimed to have blocked him. Wylteds confusion at why his vig didn't work on casey seems 100% legit to me.

I already know this, wylted has already admitted to vigging earth. I was confused what you were saying, I thought you were saying he used the night kill on earth, and earth uesd the vig on moozer for some reason.

It’s literally the exact same thing. Wylted hid from claiming his full rull until today, and you accused him of lying. The difference is I don't actually know what benefit you provided us by hiding your role. It at least makes sense for him to bait being a vanilla if he still had a sensor ability, assuming he was town. Knowing how many killing actions were used doesn't seem nearly as useful to hide.

So did you just assume I was town then? Why didn't my role make you scum read me then?

He  knows they are town now, based on flips. This is a bit manipulative.

So what exactly would a scum member need to protect themselves from prior to only being aware of a single vig shot that they themselves held?

So using a bullet proof when I am widely town read to the point that town cooperated in giving me the vig shot means I would use the shirt immediately and not hold off

You were already explained to that a vig is the exact same thing as a lynch. Both are town directed kills. In fact a vig is superior because it's a town directed kill with zero negotiation with the scum team which often occurs during a lynch

Pie also claimed the last scum was between me and earth so it makes no sense that he would fault me for digging earth.