ILikePie5

And if lynching me is what it takes for you to be willing to lynch Pie, then I already said I'm down for that. He's unlikely to confirm himself tomorrow, because scum will either roleblock him or he will claim he was roleblocked (likely the latter). If he "confirms" himself, he's been the first one to say role confirmation is not affiliation confirmation, so idk why we should give him any town cred for that.

Given how retarded town is. His role could be doctor and people would be like 

"Wow buddy, I thought you said you could confirm your affiliation)

Just for clarity Pie, can you actually confirm your affiliation or just your role? Also, for the sake of the town, would you mind saying what your role actually is?

You'll never trust me until I'm confirmed town, so go ahead. Lynch me, and then if I'm town, lynch Pie.

I don't know how he convinced people that the shot should go to a random person rather than someone who is role-confirmed and whose role is most likely town. Likely town getting the shot is better than some rando getting it, but for some reason Pie would rather just role the dice. That's enough that I'm willing to trade my life for his.

I just realized something.  Savant really has to be scum. He counter balances me perfectly. 

I just realized my ability to avoid lynches activates at L1, this means he can surpass it by double voting when I am at L2

Well you are not going to make scum invincible from the only way to kill them, and with a 1x claim.being offered, it makes it retarded for anyone to assume I am anything other than town. With that said, you guys being idiots and not realizing that my invincibility from lynches makes me town,  also lowers the chances of me being NKed, and I want to play a while so I don't want to discourage the dumb behavior too hard. Although I also want the vig shot because I trust me more than anyone

Vote count:

RSVLTS SHIRT (2/7): Earth, Lunatic

Wylted (4/5): Pie, Joebob, Wylted, Barney

Suddenly, Wylted shouts "F*** off, you're not getting my claim!"

not like that, but in the fact of essentially flipping what we knew upside down. I don’t know how to explain it

This is also why I don't want you with thr vig shot. It'd not a community decision. A town member takes the shot. Keeps their target secret end of story. Or they wait a dp for strategic reasons 

Also

I am not  opposed to this either. I mean it has a higher chance in resulting in a town kill than a mafia kill. With such a low number of players vigilantes are super risky. I'd almost waive if I was the vig unless I just had a super deep scum read on someone anyway. 

My role confirmation probably does 3 things

1. Confirms I am town

2. Balances out savant role assuming he was scum. I think my role was created first and he is the answer to my role.  I am entirely lynch proof up until mylo  or lylo.  I wouldn't be surprised if his vote thief role also had an accepting like mylo or lylo

3. I forgot what number 3 is but give me the fucking shot since my role ensures I Wil be NKed and out of the game

I am for giving it to pie and fine with that, but no we don't tell who we give it to who to shoot. Scum cannot know where the gun is being aimed to reduce the possibility of funny business 

Excuse I pointed out that vote thief was scummy prior to you, so no I was not going to be on board with him getting the vig shot. Also if we can't agree we can just ignore the option to get it

Idc who gets the vigilante, i'd prefer it wasn't a noob. If it's a vet who’s scum we can at least pressure them for it if they make a crazy decision. I'd be fine with pie getting the vig too, though I hope he doesn't just shoot savant because of his vote thief claim alone, I'd like to see some behavioral analysis with that read if he's going to yeet him.

It's one half gut feeling and one half the weird, complex way he described how his role works. Basically, he said there's two different paths it could take and one of them can confirm him as town, but not until DP3. It's the kind of weird thing that I can definitely see being in a highly customized game but that I don't think a mafia likely would have pulled out of thin air.

If he confirms, then we may as well give it t him if we know he's town. Roleblock wouldn't change that.

Okay, I looked back through the thread and this whole altercation started when Pie accused Savant of claiming a scummy role and doing scummy behavior by stealing Earth's vote despite not suspecting him. I don't necessarily scumread Savant for assuming that being confirmed as the vote thief would put him in the clear, but I do think the fact that he suggested not giving the vig power to anyone at all, combined with him stealing Earth's vote, makes him tilt a bit scum. I'd be fine with doing a VTNL, but I actually think Savant has a point in bringing up the fact that the mafia could potentially roleblock/redirect the vigilante kill and then everything will have been a waste. I also don't want us to waste the vig though. For now, I'm not going to vote, but I do think we still should lynch somebody and find somebody to give the 'shirt' to. Moozer and Pie are my top townreads right now, but Savant obviously won't agree on giving it to pie, so maybe we give it to Moozer.

Also, if I was scum, why wouldn't I just steal the vote anonymously and hammer at the last minute lol?

It's a strong possibility that scum can roleblock. Or save the shot for later and claim they were roleblocked.

Anyway Pie is acting town, and I don't care who gets the shot, as long as town collectively decides who is the target. If, say, Joe hammers and town all says to shoot Moozer, but he shoots Pie instead, we can lynch Joe. Honestly? This is just another source of headache for town. It's scummy that Savant just stole my vote, but I'm too tired to think if he's scum or just eager Town. Perhaps we can arrange that Savant is shot and maybe we can VTNL.

OMGUS implies I don't have a good reason to accuse you. I do, and I explained it.

No, you are the one saying "x behavior is scummy." Just because I point out it is the opposite does not mean you can suddenly accuse me of WIFOM. And why would it not be a scum claim if I got it as scum???

Sure we can get their input, but they probably use MafiaScum as well if they are experienced.

Yeah, or to confirm my role. I can't use it at MYLO or LYLO.

I said being aggressive didn't make you town, and I am sussing you for your poor logic and justifications.

Both of you please vote on it.

Basically because you're both accused of being scum, remove yourselves from the potential recipients, while still trying to help town get a weapon.

If one of you is correct, then only one scum is out there trying to get it; that makes it unlikely for them to win, but it can be discussed.

...

Everyone else, let's please carefully get the votes within range of hammering, and if anyone jumps for it side stepping discussion, we lynch that person.

Again, a strategy claim that you haven't backed up at all. Vigilante strategies are generally debated, and with a 1x vigilantes it is generally better to save the kill until one has a clear target. That's not an option now, so we get maybe a random kill this night and maybe a scum-directed kill. That's a net loss.

No response, then, as expected.

You realize that scum can talk in the scum chat, right? If I was scum and had a plan like this, you don't think I would prepare my partner to not implicate themselves?

Or I'm town and don't want to give it to possible scum.

Wylted, if you can confirm yourself as town, we will give you the shot. Otherwise, we should give it to no one.

Same logic that made me scum last game. Except I wasn't scum. Oops.

If I had gotten the role as scum, why wouldn't I assume it as a scum claim? Why would I assume it was a town claim, for heaven's sake? I initially assumed it was a town claim because I got it as town.

You have yet to justify this being a scum role aside from saying that it is. I provided a source. You didn't.

Why wouldn't I, when it's usually a town role?

I provided my reasons for sussing you, and it had to do with your behavior. If you were doing this to anyone else, I would be calling you out as well. Just because you accused me first doesn't give you immunity to being accused. You know this, and relying on OMGUS logic just shows how weak your case is.

I don't know who town is, hence why I don't want to take the risk. I don't see why you need this spelled out for you. No one is 100% town right now.

Town, it should be obvious right now that none of Pie's conclusions follow. Do with that information what you will.

A townie shooting blind is not a net gain for town, and it is easily outweighed by the risk of giving an extra kill to scum.

And your reasoning is circular by the way.

Your logic of "letting a townie take a shot" only works if I am scum and my scum buddy backed me up with my supposed plan (another incredible leap in logic)

, and you are relying on said logic to claim that me being scared makes me scum.

Yeah, Austin accused me of that last game. Anyway...

You don't have any way of knowing this. In fact you said "I don’t blame Savant for claiming it, he probably didn’t know it was a super scummy role," and most of the time it is a town role for balance purposes, even if you sometimes give it to scum. But reads should not be based on a single data point anyway.

Not seeing me as 100% confirmable is fine. But in that case, we should avoid letting anyone hammer instead of giving a potential scum a night kill. Notice how Pie just called me "scared" without actually contesting my argument.

Pie is my top scumread rn. Without even posting reads, he expects us to follow him for some reason. Right now either Luna is his scum buddy or he is trying to earn Luna's trust, and I am leaning toward the former. Whether or not you think I am confirmed, giving vigilante powers to a possible scum is a terrible idea, and Pie is basing his guess on one data point (people who went along with my plan). Pie could only be this confident if he knows he is scum and wants to earn Luna's trust by letting him hammer.

At first I was town reading Pie despite my annoyance with him because he is usually aggressive, however this time around he is so aggressive at the expense of logic that it doesn't make sense. Then I realized he is probably scum trying to do what he usually does as town but going a bit overboard.

so then who is

It should go to no one. Just don't hammer.

Ok then. Explain why you want to give vigilante powers to a possible scum??

Explain how maybe letting a town member kill someone based on a gut feeling is worth that risk.

Lol no. I'm not giving 1x vig to someone with zero role confirmation.

I don't think we can lynch someone if we lynch rsvlts.

Literally no one else is confirmable rn, so I recommend we just lynch someone.

My incentive was confirming my role, how was that not obvious?

I hard confirmed my role, you 100% know I can steal votes now.