Lemming

One 'could argue,

That one realizes other beliefs and methods are 'workable,

Or at least adoptable by people.

One's preference and force of conflict, subtle or blatant,

Becoming what 'is.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

The theory of allowance of other views,

Might assume that people will choose the 'best values, (Which one often assumes is one's own)

But such assumes that other people have similar values and base give ins,

But values and base give ins differ,

The same conclusions are not reached.

People often value their preferences, their tribe,

Be the reason people oppose various views, I'd suppose,

Lest their own preferences, values, and tribe, be washed away.

I don't know much about terraforming,

But maybe 'some terraforming that would apply to barren planets, are different than Earth Terraforming,

More damaging I mean.

I can imagine Sci Fi terraforming including throwing comets at a planet, or activating it's volcanos somehow.

. . .

Still, there 'is Earth terraforming, from my point of view, though more localized.

. .

Arguably deforestation is terraforming,

With the intention of growing farmland.

. .

Ooh! Or the Netherlands with all it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_control_in_the_Netherlands

Dams, another change of the land,

Though I'd worry about it going to far,

Terraforming land, seems to me capable of unintended effects,

Like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl.

. . .

Also, people don't always have the means.

The capable/willing governments, population, material, science, peace.

I would like to state only my view,

That Mr.BrotherD.Thomas like many bullies, prefers to escape consequences,

And a method commonly used by such individuals,

Is to 'threaten any who call them out on it.

I am 'not willing to ignore actions by Mr.BrotherD.Thomas any longer,

The post in the past that got him temporarily banned convinced me of my error,

And was 'certainly a post I felt no shame at reporting to the mods.

I spoke to Public-Choice of the DART CoC,

And when asked explained my reasoning of why Mr.BrotherD.Thomas should be reported by Public-Choice, and Mr.BrotherD.Thomas then banned.

. .

Public-Choice appears to have decided that is not the path he wanted, so I had no more to say in that comment section,

Except report Mr.BrotherD.Thomas for post,

And his insults towards myself.

I don't see anything I can report Mr.BrotherD.Thomas for here, according to the CoC,

But I say again,

Should I see Mr.BrotherD.Thomas acting as a bully and troll,

I shall feel free to report him, and inform individuals browbeaten, of the CoC and their 'option to report him.

Never mind his implied 'threats towards myself,

That I should just let him continue his behavior towards others, and mind my own business, lest he will stop leaving me alone.

From a certain point of view, I'd agree.

Vastness's in nature that dwarf us, giving a feeling of how small we are.

Though Arthur Schopenhauer also talked of small objects capable of giving feelings of the sublime,

Such as how light is reflected off a flower.

. . .

Science, Nature, Spiritual,

All seem broad definitions to me,

One's we're capable of using in slight different senses of the words.

Science can mean understanding, or 'use of that understanding.

Nature can mean objects apart from humans, or even include humans themselves.

Spiritual, even Materialists can use in their speech, though their meaning of Spirit might differ 'some, I think it is often similar.

Fighting Spirit, Spiritual Awakening,

For a Materialist, this might be more psychological and tied to the physical brain,

But end result of understanding what that fighting Spirit or Spiritual awakening means in forward 'action remains.

From my own viewpoint (Atheist) (Materialist)

Nature is another part of existence, and it is existence that controls and is controlled by itself.

Since I'm a bit in the Science is part of nature camp,

I'd say the same of Science, controls nature, and is controlled itself.

Though here again we come to senses of words,

If I define 'everything as nature, than is a person capable of littering?

I'd say yes, that a subtle vague distinction is understood.

Elements seem part of nature,

Man makes dams,

Lights fires,

Sparks electricity,

Blows air,

'Seems like man controls nature to me.

. . .

Can we control 'all of nature?

Doesn't seem quite that way to me,

I don't 'think launching a nuke at a hurricane would knock it off course,

But who knows what science will come to?

. .

But then there's bigger nature, stars,

Heh, though even those, man has made plans of how to control and make use of.

(Still fiction than 'achievable currently I think)

. . .

But ever vast nature grows,

And in my view ourselves part of it,

Seems hard to have 'absolute control.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

Of how I 'respond to nature,

Well, I've a sense of fear and nausea if too high up near an edge,

Though high up and not too close to an edge, can be a wonderous feeling.

Maybe if I 'practiced, I'd free myself of vertigo, but I've not practiced.

Nature, even in understanding,

Well, 'many instances, even in understanding,

Human emotion, psyche, can be moved,

By empathy, awe, fear, sadness, so on.

. .

Some situations it's only understanding that 'draws out those responses.

Heh, though others, it can be the 'lack of understanding.

I politely request that you leave me alone.

@TheUnderdog

Why must one only have 'one reason for their action?

@Topic

@Topic

What strikes me I suppose,

Is it reminds me of how countries operate.

I'm not against people seeking company with other's of similar ideals, (Generally speaking).

As other's above say, there is something one can gain in such a gathering,

Humans 'are social animals.

Though I'm fair fond of the two pieces below,

I understand people's appreciation of a church.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

"Pray without ceasing."

I'm fond of these two pieces,

Seeming to me, to encourage authentic living, mindfully and fully living one's beliefs.

I'm fond of such thought,

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Churches and/or attached buildings,

Have also often served uses 'other than prayer,

A place to meet, plan, organize,

Store records, direct charity and volunteer activities from.

Interesting,

Pity the contractors didn't cut it some.

I 'do see years back, a lot of Israel checkpoints within Palestine,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_freedom_of_movement#:~:text=According%20to%20B%27Tselem%2C%20permanent,those%20who%20carry%20special%20permits.

'Does look bad,

'But all the 'wars, occupations happen after, commonly.

America occupied Germany and Japan, (Though we didn't try to settle either).

But then I thought Israel pulled out of Palestine?

And I'm not saying ooh look proof,

I'm trying to sort the picture, of which I am unfamiliar,

I'm sure I have many of my conceptions wrong.

Yeah, I heard about the airport and seaport getting knocked out,

But again, the 'wars,

At least 'some of that was due to war collateral damage/targeting, contradictory terms I know.

. . .

I have 'heard some members of Israel played both sides of Palestine political parties, and supported Hamas at times,

Though I've not looked into it in depth.

. . .

I vaguely recall hearing about Europe, having a lot of trains and 'large freedom of easy movement between countries.

. .

I admit Palestinians have a harder time being 'able to travel, but I don't think they are 'prohibited quite?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Palestinian_citizens#:~:text=As%20of%2028%20September%202023,to%20the%20Henley%20Passport%20Index.

Well, Gaza 'is part of Palestine, I 'think.

Many nations don't like people entering their country without permission.

I see Gaza also borders Egypt.

Israel occupied Gaza for a time after the Six-Day War of 196?

Not unusual for occupiers to keep a watch on the borders, I think.

. . .

Seeing on how Gaza has 'kept up terrorist attacks, rocket attacks,

I don't see why Israel would just let them just enter without checking who they are.

. . .

I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you here,

Just asking to further my understanding.

But what would you say makes Palestine an "Open Air Prison"?

I am suddenly reminded of Starship Troopers,

Specifically, the use of public punishment in the book and film.

. . .

Though a different view is that people have various responses, to various methods of correction.

Yelling, pain, pressure,

Can tunnel the subjects vision, thinking, feeling.

But learning in depth, is different than punishment and avoidance, I suppose.

One could argue that a public pain punishment, is quick,

Quicker than months or years in prison,

Associates the act with don't do, if done quickly.

Though there 'is a lot online, against negative reinforcement,

I haven't thought on the idea in a while.

. . .

Hm, had my own experiences with negative reinforcement as a kid, I don't think on 'fondly,

Had a debate on the Death Penalty on DDO,

Discussion with LOGICZOMBIE on the subject once.

. . . Hm, worth thinking on again.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

Though even if I agreed with negative reinforcement,

Beating someone until they are braindead, sounds a braindead way to go about it,

Assuming you wanted the person to go on living in a way you thought right. 'I'm 'Not saying what they did was right,

Just that even from a negative reinforcement perspective, seemed badly done.

Though I suppose some people don't mind killing or maiming other people,

Think it's fit for them, or a fearful reminder to others.

Terrible to hear though, is my view, of what was done to this teenage girl.

Interesting,

What constitutes an experiment?

I ask this,

As I wonder on how to prove theories one has about history, or other people's thoughts.

(I believe the Moon landing was real)

I suppose one could test fly a rocket to the Moon, to prove it is possible,

Could point out historical documentation, various reasons of 'why it would not be faked,

But that it is 'possible to fly to the Moon, does not mean it was 'done in history,

That there are documents and reasons, does not mean it was 'done.

People's thoughts,

Though one can go through their mental library of what they know of a persons past actions, human psychology,

'Still, a person's thoughts are only theorized.

Though perhaps this is unfair of me, Hm, David Hume and Causation,

Though, I believe in science and testing theories, 'generally speaking.

Once we think something 'can't be tested,

Easy for a blind spot to appear, not that it did in this case, but my point is if people stop questioning, stop challenging, stop debating, stop testing, stop looking,

How would they find what 'could be tested?

Still, expecting nothing, I hope that doesn't come for some time,

Though I wonder what people might theorize, should they find themselves in some new existence after death.

. . .Hm, rambling.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

But, there 'are actions in which we might not have 'time to experiment,

Say jumping off a waterfall into the waters below,

And which failure might mean death.

Debate would be worthwhile, if a person is able to bring up certain connected notions, such as water tension, water depth, rocks, how the waterfall might push you down if you go under the water falling.

Debate proves useful in maximizing the chances to live, though 'what the water is like below is not 'known, not testable yet.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

If some other losing country had first invented the Nuclear Bomb,

And thought there was a chance it might destroy life on Earth.

Had not time to 'experiment,

Debate might be had on the worthwhileness of the risk of using it,

Various weighings of morality and values.

Though nature is nice,

I don't think I'd want to build a house as some people do,

Trees, grass, and foliage doesn't seem the type of objects you'd want close to a house.

Growing near, growing on, falling on.

Seems to me better to pour a huge concrete foundation, 

Below and above ground,

Radiating as far from one's house, as one might reasonably expect a tree to fall.

What if one's son destroys parts of the house, insults their father, creates disturbances, steals?

Perhaps the son would no longer be welcome in the house,

Until they are willing to change.

Do you differentiate between Private Property, and Personal Property,

When you say Property is theft?

If so, why and how?

@Nemiroff

I don't know,

Capitalism seems a workable system to me,

One often lives by/with/near people who practice such,

Being able to help the poor, it 'helps to have capital, I'd think.

Helps to have a job, income to distribute.

Though it seems to me that he'd discourage people who make gathering money and hurting others on the way to that, their goal.

@Tradesecret

I've sometimes heard when discussing Communism, the term personal property.

Arguably, I 'think it's still possible to steal from other individuals in a communist society.

. . . .

I 'do like what you say about "voluntary" action, not the "state".

As keithprosser says, I don't remember Jesus talking much about organizing a country on Earth in the Bible, and laws and force he intended to use upon people,

Talked 'more about personal action,

But I don't read the Bible too much, so might be he says more than I think about State Laws.

Though not everyone is born to a tribe, many are,

To that of their ancestors, and ancestors ancestors.

Religion often includes history, culture.

Morality and Philosophy is often spoken in religion,

Correct conduct towards life, and towards others,

Discussion on 'why such conduct is right.

. . .

I suppose you could argue that the tribe, history, culture, morality, philosophy,

Can all be reached without religion,

Various reasons are had for actions in life,

Tribes within and without,

. . .

Arbitrary though, it seems somehow,

Having not a decent reason for 'why,

I shrug why not.

I'm not generally bothered by religious indoctrination, any more than the various other indoctrinations we press towards children, encouraging them towards what we view as good, right in life.

Hm, hard to tell inflection with text,

For me anyway.

Sounds dismissive and insulting though.

I don't see how it's possible to 'know the future.

I suppose there are probable futures,

And even situations where if a person knows or not, they will make the same decision in the end.

But knowledge of what one 'thinks another person will do, often changes their action.

. . .

I suppose the mob might say it will kill you if you rat,

Is it the same as the AI idea?

. . .

A'causual

Causation?

What does acausal mean?

Don't many people not believe in a lack of causation?

I suppose two unlinked events wouldn't have cause,

But even the theoretical AI is 'linked to people, even if uncreated in the future,

Though it doesn't actually need to follow through on it's threat, unless people had some machine that could read the future, well, create probabilities.

Never heard of him, thought about listening to a song. . . nah.

Possibly the below does not fall under your definition of Deist,

But I would argue that there are people who have called and currently call themselves Deists,

Who 'do/did at least three actions, you stated a Deist did not do,

After looking up three, I got bored, and decided not to do the rest.

Wikipedia uses the word 'faith here,

Might be an example of Dogma?

Though maybe depends if you consider them Deists or not, people and definitions what.

Emotion

If a creator takes action, this might imply emotion?

Still, it's not a topic I've thought deeply on, nor researched deep on,

So I don't have strong views on what makes on a Deist or not.

How is a modern 'civilized war supposed to go?

Nonviolent resistance, 'if applied to the right groups, can lead to enormous benefits.

And sometimes it's all one has.

Though with some people there 'is little odds of it working.

Nazis, Klansmen, gang members.

Why is the Samson_Option a problem for America?

1. The destruction of Hamas.

2. An individual or group of 'exceptional Palestinians.

Lucky and skilled enough to influence their people to stop with all the terror and hate.

. . .

Though I think peace will only come after a violent of of Palestine, and the exile of it's citizens.

. . . But really, even then there will be no peace,

Not for the Palestinian exiles,

Not for Israel,

The Palestinians have not melded well into a number of Arab countries that accepted them in the past, I have heard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September as an example.

As for Israel, well Hamas is used by a number of Israel's neighbors, as a catspaw, I hear.

Win or lose, Israel doesn't seem to be likely to be left alone,

An enclave of differing faith and politics, is not appreciated perhaps.

. . .

'Can Hamas achieve military victory?

I don't 'think so.

Nonviolent resistance, 'or a long wait before acting seem better options,

But perhaps victory is not the expectation or goal of Hamas.

. . .

I vaguely recall that India,

Had a number of failed military fights with Britain,

Same with China,

India though, had more luck with Gandhi,

Though not all Indians like Gandhi, I've heard.

Though I still support Israel over Hamas at this point,

I'm not sure America would be 'too effected if Israel was destroyed,

I assume the terrorists care more because Israel is 'right there, in their zone of influence,

If the Jews are all the way across the ocean,

I wouldn't think they would be attacking them 'near as much.

I 'do think it'd be bad for America to lose such a staunch ally in the Middle East though.

. . .

I 'do think there are a number of criticisms one can make towards Israel,

But I haven't seen those criticisms put quite the way I would,

I also think a lot of the criticism I've heard is warped in view and lacking in links.

It's a wording of AI, your acronym.

Intelligently designed machines are not intelligent in themselves,

Even a Choose Your Own Adventure chess AI is not intelligent in itself,

I think.

I do agree that I am perhaps conflating intelligence with personhood.

I am unsure, should we encounter advanced aliens, that they 'wouldn't be somewhat like us.

Perhaps what humans do, including space travel, has certain biological requirements.

But such might be a 'natural evolution,

Which does not include 'artificial/AI.

As an example,

(This is not a reference to any culture or group in specific)

I would prefer not to be part of a tribe that rapes women, then forces them to marry their rapist,

I would prefer not to be part of a tribe that takes civilians hostage and executes them,

I don't 'care if values are contrived or not,

Whether nihilism is true or not, doesn't really seem to matter much towards the human condition,

Humans 'generally continue to care about their values.

People have values,

To protect those values, tribalism is necessary.

It is not "contrived differences", it is fundamental differences in values.

From my view anyway.

It doesn't quite sound an answer as to what a person is,

Nor am I convinced by #27.

One 'assumes other humans are people.

. . .

An AI 'acting like a human, doesn't make it a human though,

I am not willing to consider your post #79 in depth,

Due to the gist of it and past posts by you,

I don't think there is value in it for me.

I'm not very good at economics,

But it sounds that your comparison to Russia and Ukraine budgets #55 , makes it a mismatched comparison?

You don't think Israel's neighbors who have repeatedly declared war, and been defeated by Israel pose a threat to Israel?

I've already linked those wars multiple times, but you don't seem to remember?

If Israel loses the war, sounds a bit that they'll get genocided by the victors,

But perhaps you've already forgotten the sources I've used arguing for that conclusion?

While there are Palestinians in Israel, what Israelis would be allowed in Palestine?

When Hamas murders civilians?

And before you argue other countries murder civilians as well, have you already forgotten the sources I used about Hamas using foreign and their own civilians as human shields?

Have you already forg-

Bah, I do not see this as a productive use of my time,

I disagree with your assessment, is what I'll say.

I would like to state that Mods seem to take reports from the targets of harassment more seriously than bystander reports of harassment.

I would also like to argue that it is better for the community if individuals who break the DART Code of Conduct are held responsible,

Even if 'you have thick skin towards Mr.BrotherD.Thomas,

'Not reporting certain actions by them,

Allows them to act that way towards other users.

Do you have a source for that 150 billion?

I was under the impression that it was cumulative, not that we are giving 150 billion each year, though it is quite possible I am mistaken.

But if it 'is cumulative, then your comparison to Russia and Ukraine budgets, makes it a mismatched comparison?

. . .

We 'have defenses in Israel,

War is a mother of invention,

Do you consider an embryo a person then?

@zedvictor4

I think humans are pretty intelligent myself.

@Best.Korea

I don't agree that the USA should treat Israel and Palestine equally.

You seem like the type of person who would support gay rights.

Also, recall the strategic military reasons the USA has for supporting Israel.

Additionally, US citizens killed and taken hostage by 'Hamas, 'not Israel.

@FLRW

I consider your post to be motivated by your hatred of religion (At least 'some religions if not all),

I consider it misleading and dishonest,

And do not wish to engage with it.

Might result in superpowers becoming 'more super.

Taking away nukes from other countries I mean,

Before world ending nuke launching happens.

Some religious textbook excerpts.
"The books were published in 2000. FRONTLINE cannot verify how many Saudi schools have used these textbooks, or how these passages were taught or interpreted by teachers in Saudi Arabia. However, these textbooks are part of the official curriculum for Saudi students and are a fundamental part of their education. Approximately 35% of school studies is devoted to compulsory Saudi religious education."

I think Israel will strive harder than Hamas.

War is not such an ideal situation as that.

They didn't have nukes back then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterrence_theory#:~:text=Deterrence%20theory%20holds%20that%20nuclear,an%20attack%20by%20conventional%20forces.

Hamas is using other countries as well as it's own civilians as shields,

As well as targeting civilians of other nations for slaughter.

How is one to 'avoid collateral damage?

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1696753484-hamas-plans-to-use-israeli-civilian-hostages-as-human-shields#:~:text=The%20terrorist%20organization%20stated%20it,direct%20consequences%20on%20the%20hostages.”

. . .

You know, one of the things I like about Russians, in response to terrorists taking hostages,

Is I thought Russian government response is to go in hard and heavy anyhow,

Don't negotiate with terrorists.

Don't let terrorists think taking hostages will work.

. . .

Besides, hostages ought kill the terrorists themselves, and not 'let themselves be taken hostage, not 'let themselves be used.

Why?

Let's say Iran nukes Israel,

'Maybe Israel nukes back, maybe they don't.

Other countries though,

Might prefer other options, might want to avoid more nukes.

Even if other countries nuke Iran,

They don't need to be nuking each other, just because Iran nukes Israel.