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@Best.Korea
I disagree,
I don't think the Bible, Torah, and Quran are the cause of violence or rape.
Though admittedly in some cultures they 'can be used to justify such views, many works 'can be.
Much in the Bible speaks against rape,
Many denominations of Christianity exist that were you to say the Bible encourages rape or violence,
Would stand mouth agape at you.
Though I admit there are exceptions.
. . .
Regardless, it is more 'culture and 'clear cut I'm thinking of, fiction.
The Taming of the Shrew, Revenge of the Nerds movies, Old James Bond, Xanth series by Piers Anthony,
Most recent thing I've been seeing on the news is Trump,
'Does seem to me a lot of recent older culture either played it straight or made the joke quite often,
Of no not meaning no,
Or no not mattering,
It seeming natural to just push on ahead with one's advances.
. .
I'm not even saying such movies 'can't exist,
But they should at least be noted as a way 'not to behave normally in society.
'Violence, doesn't quite have that problem currently,
A person 'realizes not to murder,
. . .
Though I supposes a person realizes not to violently rape whether alone or in a group,
Really that seems 'really obvious. . .
. . .
Hm, I suppose my suggestions hit 'more the people who aren't so 'violent in their assaults.
Instead of a more evil look at society, such as how does one prevent human trafficking of children,
If a mother sells her underage daughter,
There's not really any book or film to blame for 'that.
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@Critical-Tim
To say one can be aware of various situations,
'Might be true,
And it might be I'm not asking quite the right question,
But it feels a rewording of the question what is consciousness,
Rather than an answer, to say that consciousness is awareness.
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@Best.Korea
Individuals and organizations in society are able to encourage or discourage media made,
By words of praise or condemnation.
Schools and Public libraries are able to stock or 'not stock certain books or movies.
To teach or not, certain books or movies, or 'how they are taught.
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@Critical-Tim
Not all organisms pass the mirror test,
Though I'm reminded of a book I forget about a race of alien spiders and humans meeting,
Where neither could communicate or understand one another for a long time,
Different senses, actions, ideas of communication.
Maybe a dog would recognize it's scent better, than a picture of itself.
While a human would recognize a picture better, than their own scent.
. . .
Why does it follow that if we are something,
Animals are something as well?
We wear clothing,
But animals don't?
. . .
To be predator or prey, is this 'Sentient Awareness,
Or instinctual reaction awareness, as with a programmed robot?
@Self
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, 42.
René Descartes and animals, . . . and robots.
Hm, Idea of a developed consciousness,
The ancient Romans. . .
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@FLRW
@Critical-Tim
If a robot is programmed to respond to a signal of body damage,
Then flee from threat, repair body, or scan it's body,
I suppose this 'could be called conscious,
But I'm not sure it's the same as sentience.
Really I think that distinction might be what I was unsure about int Math_Enthusiast's post #63 or Reece101's Toy Hamster 'experiencing.
I don't see how something can be conscious/sentient/aware without material existence/energy,
But that does not mean all material existence/energy is conscious/sentient/aware.
. . .
@Self
Though maybe I'm reading Math_Enthusiast's post wrong,
They 'do say,
"An AI which just sends the question to google and gets back an answer does not think. An AI that first analyzes the question, then goes to google to find relevant information, and then comes back with an answer would be said to think"
But 'something about that feels 'off to me,
It's just adding the same layer,
Which admittedly is two layers, but still just two layers.
Though that's what my overflowing cup example is arguing itself,
I'm not 'quite satisfied with my explanation,
And I don't think Math_Enthusiast is quite getting at the same argument as me,
But I'm sleep deprived this moment, maybe it'll be clearer tomorrow, or tomorrow's tomorrow, because I won't sleep much tonight.
Well, I'm going to bed, need to work tonight.
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@Best.Korea
Discourage non-consent culture,
Encourage consent culture.
Two examples,
Don't encourage so much media where individuals force themselves on other people.
Encourage certain concepts in society, such as no means no.
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Vaguely turning over idea of aliens taking a ton of humans then selectively breeding them for unusual genetic differences,
To create a planet of beings highly different and opposed to one another due to shallow physical differences.
Thought being that skin deep differences being one reason humans divide times,
Though there is argument for some differences being 'more than skin deep,
'Just the skin deep is reason enough for some people, aesthetics. . .
Though I wonder, what a world of clones would be like?
Of individuals all looking the same?
Would they acquire more adornments such as clothing or body modification to define their individuality?
More 'cultural identification?
'Less self identity, with everyone looking alike?
Perhaps develop a higher ability for telling tiny differences between one another?
. . .
I suppose the idea of 'aliens modifying humans though,
Is that fantasy seems a bit silly to me at times,
Take centaurs for instance,
Somehow I get snagged on the idea of why 'that particular percentage and location,
Really 'any organism or percentage could be used,
That I become paused at the plethora of options.
. .
Of odd humans though,
I'd 'assume there's a limit to how many would be available,
Not that humans are 'wrong or bad to look different,
But they are conventionally more different than most other people, (Maybe)
People with albinism, Conjoined twins, Hypertrichosis, people born blind,
Though on the other hand, perhaps this is only due to 'numbers,
There's also the question of psychology,
A good person with albinism,
A good person without albinism,
An evil person without albinism,
'Feels a bit pick and choose, in saying 'which two are alike.
. . .
I also suppose albinism isn't really much any different than any 'other melatonin difference between humans 'already as we are?
Or how different society would 'be, in a nation of conjoined twins or people born blind.
Well, just idle thoughts.
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@zedvictor4
There is ye Old Original Sin I suppose,
. . .
Is it such a bad 'concept?
It is not unusual for individuals or groups of people to have some defining event in their lives,
That set them a'course on some line of life.
That set them a'course on some line of life.
Someone's first crime,
Or first drug,
First time being a bully,
First time a nation takes freedom,
Or invades,
. . .
One can become mired and stuck,
With a single step into a swamp.
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@TWS1405_2
Well I'm an Atheist and a Materialist.
So. . .
Though on the other hand, for fairness,
I've never looked or researched into exorcisms before.
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What makes a good actor I wonder?
I would think myself, the ability to play many roles well.
Though I'm pretty fond of some actors, even if typecast,
They play certain characters 'very well.
Then there's the thought of having good roles/surroundings,
By which one conflates what's 'around an actor, with the actor themself.
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@zedvictor4
Fair point, on how this is in the religious section.
@NoOneInParticular, unfocused ramble.
Punishment seems more about making a person cry uncle and desist their actions, than their repentance,
Sorry by added on consequence,
Sorry for the punishment, rather than one's own actions and consequences, 'but for the punishment by others,
Though I suppose people 'do often fall into repentance due to consequences, realizing their mistake due to them,
Though there's a difference between outside caused consequences and non outside caused consequences,
I suppose the two mingle at times,
Such as when people commit crime,
There's the 'expectation that they will get away with it despite outside consequences, and yet 'because of that, it's also inside consequences.
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@zedvictor4
I don't think sin and repentance 'have to be in the religious tense.
So long as there is an 'observer. . .
Be they an individual looking upon themself, or another individual. . .
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@n8nrgim
Hm,
The idea of forgiveness 'is vague in my head.
When I was I child, I prayed for a man to find reconciliation with what I saw as the right path in life,
That he do good an not evil, as he had been doing (According to my view)
I did not bear hatred for him, but a desire that he stop his evil, that good come to him and other people.
My mother praised such an attitude in me.
Though nowadays I am an Atheist.
. . .
Forgiveness though, definition, definition,
I forgive my second brother for any of his acts towards his family,
But this does not mean I or my family intend to let him do whatever 'he wants, if what he wants is to mooch and do drugs.
This could be considered working against him,
'Is reconciliation necessary?
Let's say there was some madman about town, killing people,
Can I not forgive him for his actions, yet kill them nonetheless, to protect people in the town?
To my sense, forgiveness vaguely means to hold no ill will for an action,
And yet, I see in my examples,
(Not saying my examples are 'right or true definition, just the examples that come to my mind)
I forgive a person, yet stay mindful of possible consequences, stay on guard, act against.
Even to the point of killing them, in the thought experiment.
. . .
What's Webster say?
1
": to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : PARDON
forgive one's enemies
2a
: to give up resentment of or claim to requital (see REQUITAL sense 1 for
forgive an insult
b
: to grant relief from payment of
forgive a debt"
I see two senses of the word,
Forgiveness in feeling,
Or forgiveness in action.
. . .
Hm, and now skimmed through post ##5,
It's dense text, but it speaks it's points well.
Seems to me it's argument is be 'willing to forgive, that people can reconcile,
But it still argues the person needs 'be repentant.
Of the priests,
Might have been better if they sent them to some highly monitored monastery, where they wore cameras.
'Previous thought I had of the priests, would be 'to tempt the priests afterward, in a kind of Catch A Predator Sting,
Then execute them if they proved unable to keep to morals other's agree with.
But, , ,
Bible 'does say,
"Do Not Cause Another to Stumble
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother."
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother."
So maybe the monitored exile monastery would be better.
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@zedvictor4
A reasonable point of view,
That I 'sometimes take.
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@NoOneInParticular
I meant to say,
Music as a 'building block, sure seems amoral,
Same as the material of metal might be amoral,
rather than
"Music as a 'building block, sure seems amoral,
Same as metal might be immoral,"
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@n8nrgim
Maybe he would not have tried,
But people 'can kill other people without guns,
A hatchet, A poison pizza, A burning of a house with the exits blocked.
Frankly people could kill a 'ton of people even without guns,
And could 'keep killing people if they made an intelligent effort no to get caught.
I'm a young person,
And though I don't know of any statistics to verify it,
Guns used to look a lot more common in America,
Not to mention more rural areas where plenty of people have guns.
I won't say guns have 'no connection to shootings occurring,
But I 'do think it's not 'just guns.
Some months ago, an older coworker of mine,
Talking about how people used to drive to school with guns in their trucks all the time.
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@n8nrgim
I'm a young person,
And though I don't know of any statistics to verify it,
Guns used to look a lot more common in America,
Not to mention more rural areas where plenty of people have guns.
I won't say guns have 'no connection to shootings occurring,
But I 'do think it's not 'just guns.
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@zedvictor4
I remember as a kid, my Dad would say that when a sibling would mock us, we were 'letting them have power over us, if we let it annoy us.
He also encouraged X many times for us to make fun of an mock each other, or did so himself.
Example of such, would be that gesture where one puts their thumb on their nose and waggles their other fingers.
I think he saw it as a lesson in resiliency and self control, and just a way of playing,
But as a kid, all I thought was that it wasn't right someone should mock me, my siblings felt the same,
Though they, and probably me mocked each other at times anyway.
I don't find it a fond memory, or the right way to have taught the lesson.
And of course my Dad is/was the type of person who is fine with mocking himself when it's 'his choice,
And fine with mocking people when it's 'not their choice,
But never did he allow people to mock 'him, when it wasn't his choice,
Oh 'sure, he can make fun of other people, but they can't make fun of him. (Ah, I'm rambling)
. . .
Though my eldest brother says I did it first because I saw it in a where's Waldo book,
He claims that I was fine doing it to other people, but not having it done to me,
"So since you could dish it out but not take it, Dad thought you should be taught a lesson, then he overdid the cr*p out of it" - My first Brother
Hm, I don't 'think I was even as old as a teenager when that happened, so my memory is fuzzy,
But I remember frequent incidents with 'all family members getting talked down to by Dad at certain points, I'm sure it 'wasn't 'just me.
. . .
I suppose being insulted is a bit of a choice,
But an action by another, intended to insult, is 'still objectively real.
. . .
. . .
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I suppose the thought that comes next,
Can individual people be evil?
Or are there only evil circumstance?
And some people have a tendency to enact evil circumstance?
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@DavidAZ
Actually, after thinking on my own post #23,
I suppose someone might call a song evil if it had a ton of profanity and violent lyrics.
Encouraged types of behavior one considered immoral.
Like,
"Kill your family, commit crime, destroy the world!"
Music as a 'building block, sure seems amoral,
Same as metal might be immoral,
But if someone made an Robot that went around killing people,
People might call the robot evil.
. . .
After all, ethang5's not asking is music generally speaking evil?
But,
Are there certain configurations, shapes, of music that are evil?
It's not it metal evil?
But,
Is metal in the shape and programming of a serial killer robot evil?
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One could say the Confederacy was successful in getting on their feet.
If certain events in history had not occurred, Stonewall Jackson's death, Grant being put in charge of Union army,
History might have rolled out different.
I think ResurgetExFavilla has a good point on fragmented countries and military support of revolutions.
People 'might have the power,
It depends on circumstance,
'Sometimes people are successful, sometimes they get crushed.
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@oromagi
Ideas and Ideology 'do seem pretty similar to me,
Though, I 'do think a person can believe in an idea without being part of a group.
Of debaters.
Any three people who debated on this site, while following the below,
Though debating feels more an activity, than a lifestyle, to me maybe.
More than one person talking,
Some subject discussed,
Each person says something different.
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Short Article
- "Showed that rats will forgo heroin and methamphetamine in favor of spending time with another rat.
- Highlights the importance of incorporating voluntary choice between drugs and social rewards in drug addiction research and introduces a novel model for studying the impact of social motivation in studies of drug use and addiction."
Ah, well maybe rats can stop being heroin addicts too.
Medium Article
"But Alexander wondered: is this about the drug or might it be related to the setting they were in? To test his hypothesis, he put rats in “rat parks,” where they were among others and free to roam and play, to socialize and to have sex. And they were given the same access to the same two types of drug laced bottles. When inhabiting a “rat park,” they remarkably preferred the plain water. Even when they did imbibe from the drug-filled bottle, they did so intermittently, not obsessively, and never overdosed. A social community beat the power of drugs.
I believe that the biggest problem with the powerful, ubiquitous psychoactive drugs (meaning those that work on our brains and minds), is that they are so effective. In immediate and powerful ways, they change how we feel, think, relate, and behave. Or transport us away from loneliness and isolation. That is why we use them! It is also why campaigns of “just saying no” are naïve and ineffective, and why the dilemma of drug-taking, legal and illicit, has become one of the most dominant societal dilemmas we face in the 21st century."
I haven't read the long article yet.
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@Mharman
Have any summer plans?
I'm going to soak up the sun,
Be outside more this summer.
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@zedvictor4
Well, humans stop being heroin addicts, sometimes.
Humans have more social life though, so help often comes from other people,
Or having a more social life, some other want of importance overcomes the heroin want.
Though maybe rats stop being heroin addicts too, sometimes. (I don't know)
Of conditioning,
Feeling of pleasure, feeling of pain,
Be it drugs, video games, social praise, parental praise, winning,
People get locked into activities sometimes, become hyper focused,
Only play video games,
Only live in a cult,
Only care about job.
Activities 'give them something,
Then they at times ignore 'other parts of life, or basic needs.
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I don't like infinite scrolling on websites,
I think it's idiotic,
It prevents me from viewing older posts.
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As AI increases,
Perhaps the 'importance of human creation, conversation, articles, thought, so on. . .
In the sense of creating 'for other people, decreases,
Though there 'would still be value in an individual creating, for their 'own development of self,
As I think there is something gained by 'doing, compared to reading.
Not that reading isn't useful,
But the effect is different than doing,
Not 'worse maybe, just different.
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@zedvictor4
'Maybe just heroin,
But my own take is Pavlovian,
Though I'm thinking a rat is more simple than a human,
People can get enthralled with something, or a past event of something,
Leave rest their lives beside their enthrallment, all but the enthrallment going to waste.
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@zedvictor4
Well, I 'would think we might tend to die if we ignored them 'all the time,
Or were to turn them off permanently.
"Alexander’s experiments, in the 1970s, have come to be called the “Rat Park.1 Researchers had already proved that when rats were placed in a cage, all alone, with no other community of rats, and offered two water bottles-one filled with water and the other with heroin or cocaine-the rats would repetitively drink from the drug-laced bottles until they all overdosed and died. Like pigeons pressing a pleasure lever, they were relentless, until their bodies and brains were overcome, and they died."
Not that I encourage animal experimentation,
But research 'already done is interesting.
Though grimmhorizon's meaning is till unclear to me.
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@Math_Enthusiast
Faith and belief are strong,
We often hold them for family, friends, comrades,
Institutions, ideas,
That even when events contrary occur, faith and belief still hold.
If a Native American told his chief, that newcomers had arrived in canoes a hundred times their own,
Who wielded metal rods that when pointed at a person, killed that person,
Would they be believed?
Perhaps not,
And perhaps that would be reasonable,
More likely they ate some strange food, or went crazy,
It would also be more possible to 'prove the existence of the newcomers, though not 'certain.
For people can come and leave, or be defeated in a battle, then their items lost to history, but through the oral tradition.
Liars Game,
Prisoner's Dilemma,
Gaslighting,
Latex masks,
Pangloss.
I'm not sure where it is foolish or admirable to hold faith despite moments contrary,
But I 'do at times,
Usually in fiction, where a villain is attempting to deceive a person,
Or even when a friend has faith in a person 'not their friend,
Perhaps it get's old eventually, and evidence to the contrary piles up,
But generally speaking, I do not hate faith, belief.
We all have many beliefs, faiths.
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@zedvictor4
What do you mean by innate basic needs?
Of slavery, jah, I'd agree, been around a long time, many places.
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@zedvictor4
But maybe brain muscles are like body muscles,
Guy who 'only works out arms or legs,
Has funny looking, thin in comparison, legs or arms.
Some body muscles work the heart more than others, I'd think,
So too maybe mental activities.
And some muscles are more useful for certain physical acts,
Pull up muscles and climbing for example,
But not so much use pull up muscles in running.
I 'do agree with you though,
Applying conscious demands is probably a good thing for the brain.
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Do educational subjects work as a wheel?
You know, how there's elemental wheels, with strengths and weaknesses against other elements?
I'd 'imagine, that people who major in,
Math, History, Language, Science, so on in their various subdivisions,
Would have subjects they're weaker in, on 'average,
Or stronger in,
Some subjects interacting a fair bit,
Others not.
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@Math_Enthusiast
Phenomenon 'can occur, of which we have no answer in the moment,
If Terry was a trustworthy person,
Perhaps ears would be open to his claims,
If further miracles occurred,
Or even just good leadership in a time of turmoil, hardship, moral concerns,
How much greater the credence to him given.
. . .
I will not curse people for their faith,
Though I may not share it myself.
. . .
Even of the modern Christian, I'm doubtful it is 'only the claim of truth,
By which people believe,
But their life experiences, perspectives, related logics.
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@IlDiavolo
Mid-Day News - SNL
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@Lucifer
I don't think so,
I don't 'remember dying.
Anything imply to you that we could be?
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What is mental activity,
In the sense of working out one's brain muscles?
Would simple math problems count,
Facts about history and the world,
Or are these memorizations rather than mental activity?
Maybe memorization 'does count as mental activity,
Or must there be 'more engagement, problem solving, looking at the problem in different angles?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Not sure about the castling,
But been years since I played chess,
So in a way, heh, been years since I castled as well.
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@zedvictor4
America even back during it's isolationist era, I'd call diverse in race,
Though not 'so diverse as today,
Even when a bunch of X color people group up, they can still be from different X color races,
Bit the modern thought, of separating groups of races/people, by the most extreme differences. (Maybe)
My point/view though,
Is that even if someone came from Japan,
Once they're in the UK, whether emigrated or born, they're of the UK,
Could 'still isolate I'd think, be UK first and what.
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@zedvictor4
I suppose the thought in #757 came to my mind,
As I was thinking on elves, undead, vampires, ghosts, AI,
And memory, identity.
Though about half the time of you,
'Like you, I still view 'ME, as me,
Even those vaguest far back memories,
I view them as having happened to 'ME.
. . .
But I'm still unsure where 'WE, are. (Or what)
That defining consciousness kick, we talked about a bit back.
. . .
Of the 'feeling and recollecting,
Humans 'usually have either short enough time, or long enough memory, to recall themselves,
Barring dementia.
. . .
In the Ship of Theseus,
The ship is replaced piece by piece 'exactly the same,
But in 'humans,
The pieces are different, , , 'But, for that 'feeling, continued consciousness, memory,
@Self
If we forgot everything but today, would we think we only began existing today?
Some years ago, my family had a vet put down the family dog,
He'd grown old, was having a number of health problems that he couldn't move easy, was in frequent pain, so on,
Seemed kinder to put him down, (Probably also cheaper, less work as he was)
Of course a human is not a dog,
Not in the value we place (Usually)
. . .
Only comment I recall making on Euthanasia, was for the series of DDO questions when I joined,
Pro, I don't like it.
Which I assume meant, if people are in so much pain or expecting death,
'Seems better to me they have the choice to pass away if they wish.
Also people in vegetative states,
But it grows bit murky, 'choosing for others.
. . .
Regarding myself, in ever losing my mind,
I'm undecided of two camps,
Either live by myself, until I die of neglecting myself, due to being unable (Painful)
Or try to extend my existence for as long as possible, even if unaware of it.
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If you forget yourself,
Can you be said to still exist?
A thought I often have on immortality,
The human lifespan is rather short,
Though people change a fair bit,
It's easy to forget, to still see the same person throughout.
Like an image warper,
Set to some low degree,
Some 10 or hundred warps back and forth,
The same image seen,
But high degrees or thousands, millions of warps.
. . .
Old idea, Ship of Theseus.
. . .
But were something unchanging,
No new memories,
Can that be said to be 'alive?
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@zedvictor4
Heh, for me it's generally people I 'do know, that I avoid talking philosophy and religion with.
People unknown, it's a bit of a gamble,
But wide variety, and I feel less a need to conform to an 'image, of how I expect people see me.
. . .
Small countries,
Is the argument that small countries have to stay involved in the world, keeping alliances and such, that they don't get eaten by larger countries?
The racial diversity one I don't get?
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@Mharman
Because it is safe, wide, flexible?
Or so I think a website is saying.
I never really played beyond a middle school level,
My opening was always the four move checkmate, Scholar's Mate.
Didn't usually work,
But I was used to it, and usually had a vague idea of where to go next, after it failed.
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@Greyparrot
@Sir.Lancelot
I'm not trying to insult IwantRooseveltagain,
Just a momentary irritation with the number of same subject threads created by IwantRooseveltagain,
Also unjustified thoughts about bots and propaganda accounts,
I don't think IwantRooseveltagain is a bot, and probably not a propaganda account.
Though I suppose other people can make an excessive number of same subject threads too,
I don't 'remember making a point of it to IwantRooseveltagain before.
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@zedvictor4
Anagrams can be a fun, unusual way of looking at words,
A tilt of the head, and a new thought may enter one's head,
Viewing a word or concept, from another angle.
I don't know how ethang5 is doing,
But I hope he's doing well,
Though not too much strife between him and others.
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@zedvictor4
I don't 'think you can post more than once before posting a thread,
Though I'm unsure.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Why don't you make 'ONE thread, where you complain about politics,
Rather than spamming threads for every 'slightly different topic?
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@IlDiavolo
I'd agree there are multiple ways to spread influence.
I don't know what the best way to solve conflicts is,
But war is certainly 'a way, and one not outdated,
Not outdated in aggression,
And if not outdated in aggression,
'Definitely not outdated in defense.
"Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far".
- Theodore Roosevelt
'Does become a balance though,
To much invested in military, means other options aren't receiving the needed funding,
No military, makes being conquered easier,
Though admittedly countries can get rid of their military and hide behind other countries to an 'extent.
. . .
Again though, I 'agree,
That there are many methods to increase influence, make allies, trading partners, dependents.
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Or people like to be friends,
But don't like interacting 'so much,
Or being 'so positive.
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