Lemming

Merry Christmas.

Even if the forums lost some activity,

There's some people I'd be inclined to ban.

Though there are other people, I'd be inclined to leave be, and not ban.

I don't know,

If I had grown up as an Atheist, a Materialist,

Would I still be a Nihilist?

I don't know,

I find existence confusing, incoherent at times, insane, I want to scream,

But I don't place that on Christianity,

Rather conclusions about existence as I perceive it,

I place my discomfort on Atheism and Materialism.

For me, Christianity was when I was more intact psychologically.

But, might be if I'd grown without it, I'd be intact,

I'm doubtful though.

Merry Christmas Eve.

Rain, not snow outside, but still cold out,

Warm, cozy inside,

'Will be nice food today, tomorrow.

I don't work again until Monday night.

I might rather hear Atheists talk about their beliefs, reasons, intents, and actions,

Than hear them say over and over how much they hate religion.

Even if it has been commercialized by many,

Christmas plays a large role in American society,

Yet some Atheists insist, that God had no place in the heart of Americans,

No influence in our laws or culture.

Is there something wrong, with anything?

Two glasses, half full, it sounds.

@Gion #9

Voting against certain actions and behaviors, doesn't necessitate hate of the individual, I'd argue.

Society is full of people who disagree one what actions and behaviors ought take place in it,

And vote against other people's desired state of law.

. . .

Or for their own, rather than 'against others, depends on how one looks at it.

@NoOneInParticular

. . . Hm, only comments I find worth reading in this thread, are YouFound_Lxam's and Gion's. So far.

What is meant by civilization?

Or to be civilized?

One could define it as adherence to one's own group's values,

And view other groups values as uncivilized.

Alternatively having 'any values, would be to be civilized.

How 'large one's homogenous language and values group is.

How deadly one's group is per individual,

Or how deadly weapons are,

Or tools.

Though weapons and tools can be. . Environmental, declaring their deadliness or use.

A shining city surrounded by savages,

Or a uncivilized speck, blighting a great people.

How one turns one's head.

I'd argue,

Modern day abiogenesis theory isn't about flies or bacteria forming over  a short time from meat and no fly egg or bacteria introduction.

Rather it's, many steps, much time, requirements, materials, conditions.

Personally, I just have difficulty thinking that BrotherD.Thomas is 'not a troll,

Who disrupts the religious section and plays the character of a caricature of a Christian.

Of course people 'do exist in life, zealous or ill,

Who might talk as he does,

Which has me hesitate a bit in my placing of him in definitions.

Stephen, I see as an unintentional troll, who simply hates religion,

And lacks either the inclination or intelligence to converse normally, on the point of religion.

Heh, no avoiding stupid fanciful explanations for me,

I 'need 'some theory, placed most likely,

That I can act,

Maybe,

Even if I think it hazy, flawed, broad.

I'd agree that devout people can be conditioned to be less than tolerant of atheism,

They take a stance after all, place it as true and important,

Though I would argue such can hold for atheists as well,

Should they acquire certain tenants and ideologies.

Atheism, Theism, or Christianity being wide umbrellas,

Certainly though,

Not company one enjoys keeping,

If another holds a different view,

To the point their view demands you have less rights,

Demands you be chastised daily for a lack of faith.

I suppose two that come to my mind, are A Psalm of David. and The Lord’s Prayer,

Mainly because there's a couple Youtube videos I remember,

Truth be told I don't read the Bible or study it much,

So might be I'm overclaiming how much I like it in post #77,

But I 'do still like the Bible.

Music touches the heart,

I can admire people who find God a mainstay,

Admire their faith, sentiment,

And the action it can give people.

My mother and first brother, are two people who I find. . . Intimidating at times, by how pure they seem in their faith and altruism,

I suppose one could dislike A Psalm of David, for the fact that even people of faith are killed, tortured, fall despite their faith and efforts,\

But I admire the faith people keep in hardship,

It's a beauty to me, when people 'do keep their values.

Of The Lord’s Prayer, I like how it is encouraged to not make a false show of one's belief, but let it guide one, in their private and personal life,

What they are in the dark, away from societies eyes,

It's far from uncommon of people, including myself, to care more about 'appearance of virtue, than virtue itself.

I like the thankfulness of what is had in ones life,

For one can easily forget the good and only remember the bad, skewing one's psyche,

I like the forgiveness spoken,

The recognition of evil, and a desire not to be led into it,

. . . Opportunity creates criminals, some people say, and I think there's truth in that.

Of course one can complain about the Lords Prayer as well,

Yet we 'do find ourselves in temptation,

Or situations where so much 'bad is about. . .

. . .

But I admire people's faith,

And such situations are not unmentioned in the Bible, Job, and Ecclesiaste.

It's something I admire, but cannot have as I am, an Atheist,

Unwilling to change my view.

But I like it.

I think that's a well put theory, that seems most likely to myself as well.

Earth environment isn't what it once was,

As well as evolution can take a 'long time, glaciers don't 'look much like they're moving either, often.

Materialist opinions below.

Because of it's nature and circumstance,

I doubt it myself,

Though some people attribute consciousness to the inanimate,

Some people think a planet or universe might be conscious, with us being as tiny blood cells, planets as bones, roughly.

If existence is infinite,

Then energy would last forever some people think,

Some think consciousness lasts forever, in some form or another.

Because of it's nature and circumstance,

Unintentional, I think myself,

Humans may have aspirations, but they don't always last so long,

Unevolved life would plan even less ahead, I would think.

Though really for all this,

I don't know.

If downvotes existed, I'd certainly downvote BrotherD.Thomas's #2.

Personally, I think Why and how did life come about?, can fit in many forums, including the religion.

I think Intelligence_06's #3, is the best of the replies thus far, including mine.

Basically he argues for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis, I think,

Which one 'could argue is random, but in a way it's not,

Rolls of the dice maybe,

But occurring in X circumstance according to X laws.

People mate, they don't always get a child,

I wouldn't call having kids 'random, though there's chance involved,

I'd argue it occurs in X circumstance.

Maybe he preferred photos,

Due to the time and culture.

Also  Nancy Pelosi's portrait was for her position in government or something, I think.

. . .

Hm, I see in reading a different article she had four Speakers portraits removed, as they also served in the Confederacy,

Bah I say,

Bet she'd like to Stalin airbrush old photos as well.

Personally, I like the Bible,

As a source of loose history, morals, ethics, philosophy, allegory, poetry, and so on.

@#6

It's 'long been a saying, somewhat policy in America,

That we don't negotiate with terrorists,

So mainstream, I'm not even going to link anything, as it's so well known a saying.

Arguably, one could apply it to loosely to Russia, in the context of some individuals.

Scientists Control Mouse Brain By Remote Control

I'd agree, I see the strategy of civilian hostage trading as carrying risk,

That 'more individuals of a nation might be captured, if trade is expected.

I do not know the statistics though, of America compared with other wealthy nations,

Hostages taken, financial cost.

Might do more harm, if more people 'are taken, if we agree to trades.

Might do less harm, if not significantly more people are taken, and instead people's length of holding is cut short.

. . .

Biden might not to be blamed for cracking the box though?

. . .

Though different from civilians,

We do have a history of POW exchanges I think, though perhaps less in recent history.

But they have heard of him.

@SirAnonymous   #4

Good grief.

@Sidewalker   #14

Well, any publicity is good publicity, some say,

And people 'are talking about it, thus him.

One never knows, 'could be worth something in X many years.

What makes it lopsided?

Though I've my own views on another thread, more agreeable with yours's here.

But I've not really researched the issue for the particulars that would lean it this way or that.

If the arms dealer has lost his contacts,

If the arms trade has changed methods (Internet and things),

If we secretly flipped the arms dealer.

Maybe negotiations couldn't get the man for the Russian, but only the girl.

. . .

I admit it's a minor news note, (To me)

To my view it's not spectacularly horrible or great.

Pretty weird,

But it seems reasonable,

One's brain has all those connections and functions in it still,

Similar if one's keyboard or mouse breaks, their computer still has the drivers for those devices.

'Must be a strange experience though.

@zedvictor4

I'd agree that the brain makes it's own sense of information sent to it,

There be people with brain issues, so that even though their eyes send X information, they only see Y,

I suppose such is happening even now, with no brain issues, as we'd usually call them.

People focus on this or that,

In the dark of night, brain fear high, creates monsters for children, at times.

@Below is Discarded first reply, but not Deleted.

Ah, you're saying my 'brain is not sensing your post #611,

My eyes are, and are sending that information to my brain,

Where internal whatnot puts it together to be viewed?

Hm, that the eyes are not windows through which the soul peers,

But messengers to and from the soul, er, I mean brain?

Eyes windows to the soul, usually talking about how a person's expression can at times show inner thoughts and emotions,

Like smiling without one's eye muscles, showing at times a false expression.

. . .

Hm, 'I,

I've said in the past, a hand is not 'Me, though in some uses of the word it is,

So an 'Eye, need not be 'Me either,

But then I've a difficulty accounting 'for Me.

. . .

I've difficulty, finding the right words,

A lobotomy of the brain, a surgery of the hand,

Though ghost pains exist. . .

Hm,

A metal coin,

Get's hit with a hammer, bent in shape,

When it's structure changed,

 No, that's a wrong phrasing,

You've a practical point, zedvictor4,

But it 'feels practical according to a certain view,

But I can't put together the other view in my head,

Can't describe it, not that it's there,

It feels like two different coding languages, not meshing, if I try to pick out a piece of one and place it in the other processing language, it doesn't work anymore.

The problem of metaphors perhaps,

Often practical, but not 'true description.

@zedvictor4

How do you mean?

Do you mean individual humans,

Or existence as a whole?

@NoOneInParticular

I read a Jack London short story, last night.

@First First Draft Reply (Discarded but not Deleted)

Inductive inference. . . Deductive reasoning,

Hm, this isn't the right track,

Not the right words,

Least not the right order of words, not the right way of saying, thinking.

I haven't found meat alternatives very tasty thus far,

They seem a bit expensive at times,

I'm doubtful that they can replace meat's nutrition,

I also suspect many meat alternatives, often 'still come about from animal death and suffering, thus what the point.

I still eat meat.

Course I haven't researched much,

Or experimented much,

So, still early on.

. . .

Afterthought, poor suffering plants, 98% joke.

. .

Hm, also, even if meat alternatives 'did nicely replace meats,

What of rest of actions and behavior. products and support, that lead to animal consumption,

Animal glue, would be an example, assuming we still make glue from animals.

. . .

Hm, though as someone says in another thread, a decrease of severity of an action, is better than an increase of severity, even if the action still occurs.

In a thread of his own making, in a debate site.

As they further mistook a debate site, for a news site.

Not that I mind people talking about news,

But 'spam, I find irritating.

It 'really is more like advertising spam than debate.

You don't 'seem to be looking for debate, as much as opportunity to announce every news event that agrees with your point of view, then move onto the next one.

Any one of your previous threads, contain the possibility for debating about Trump, but you keep making new ones.

@coal

I suppose it's not particularly 'insightful,

But it's true people in the military get regularly vaccinated with other shots,

True that they serve a purpose in keeping people alive, in working condition.

Though I'm a mite paranoid myself about vaccines,

Suspicious when people are so pressing of them.

And suspicious at times, of science I don't understand.

Still, vaccinated, myself.

@Self

mRNA?

Indigenous people. . .

Ever it's been that way, since government insisted on it's taxes,

And 'that's been the way, a long time.

The citizen not having autonomy,

The city, the county, the state within a nation.

What difference be it, if the Southern Confederacy has not self rule,

Or the 13 Colonies have not self rule?

. , ,

Though 'representation would have been nice.

. . .

Perhaps one could not have known France would sell out it's holdings,

That other powers would pass away,

But if the Brits had kept to it like men,

They'd have all the North America,

They'd have Australia,

India,

And all the other various places.

Of course one of the ways I'd say they mucked it up,

Was by making the people of their expansions 2nd class,

Rather than equals, albeit equal under the Crown.

. . .

Look at China,

It's eager itself to place under it's wing, those it would,

Tibet, Taiwan, Hong Kong,

And even further back,

One has all the ancient dynasties, 'insisting to other nations, 'their way.

. . .

'Indigenous people. .

Well,

Even the people close to home, at times don't appreciate governments insistence,

Look at the Brits and the Irish.

. . .

Out'dated you say,

I'd say not myself,

If anything as technology advanced,

Was ever the time more ripe for one superpower to rise.

Disparity of power,

Ease of travel and communication.

Not that such would 'necessarily be moral, 'may'be.

. . . 

A number of them, ja.

. . .

Though if you're 'bolding, random,

To imply not 'so random,

Well you're right enough,

But a 'bit offhand thoughts, perhaps.

It is a bit interesting I'd say,

Though conversations slipped a track.

My own view being, it as an ought, winnows it down, as all oughts, to the fulfillment of a value.

Something to be attained that is,

There's reason to be in shape, if being in shape serves some purpose, goal, or ideal, that one values.

I think.

Not that I stay in sporty bodybuilder shape myself,

I've not the inclination, apparent or immediate need seen,

Though I'd think it a 'better action to be in better shape, 'generally,

For various reasons.

I'd agree it's our minds,

Raising us higher, than other animals,

In our estimate,

But it's not clear to me when, what, where,

Our minds be.

And when our minds become mundane,

The sacredness 'trickles away from it, for me.

Some configuration as sufficient style and power,

As a liquid turns to ice a certain cold and type of liquid,

Well, animals are fairly cold,

And some humans lukewarm,

Might be I should feel worse, eating animals,

Or feel little more than I do for animals, regarding some humans,

Though such ignores the other factors, tickling one's emotion.

I'm unsure if consciousness is ever the ice,

And not instead complicated tasks and 'various conscious thoughts.

Might be the ice example is flawed,

And we aren't frozen yet,

Not 'so much people ourselves yet, by greater measurements.

I'm curious though,

Why the topic? What's the draw, the reason you think on it?

I couldn't say who decides what is logical, myself,

Being shallowly educated and indirectly educated often.

But I look for whether statements and claims seem reasonable to me, or not,

So well as I can.

In the casino,

Well, if I desire money,

Gambling on roulette seems a wrong way to go about trying to satisfy that desire.

Results, and logic,

 Maybe.

Though people and societies vary,

In what is justification, or 'enough justification,

Maybe.

. . .

A person might win 10 spins of a roulette wheel, (Results)

But a record of other people's losses and streaks (Results) imply eventual failure.

As well as game theory, mathematics, and observance of the casino house rules (logic) dictating failure.

@#19

Well, intellectually I'm a moral nihilist,

But as find my natural urges compelling, my habits compelling,

I don't really 'hold to nihilism, practically speaking.

Though, arguably if I had focused on 'not being a nihilist,

I think I could have justified my position in 'not being one, as well as I justify my 'being one now,

But, just not how it turned out.

Of an individual or communities value being 'correct,

Well, I suppose one might argue that justified beliefs exist,

That is to say,

If one has the goal of keeping their children well nourished,

Let's say two proposed beliefs in securing this objective exist,

Belief 1, spending one's paycheck on booze, will nourish my children,

Belief 2, spending my paycheck on food will nourish my children,

Belief 2, seems more justified to me,

Just based on knowledge, cause and effect, predictions of the future,

Though I suppose some circumstance 'could occur in life, where buying booze led to one's children being nourished.

@#21

Well, you asked in post #1

Different people and different societies, have different values,

Different things they esteem,

Depending on who you are, what you value,

Or what society you are in, what they value,

That is said moral or ethical standard that says you ought strive not to be unhealthy, obese, addicted.

@#18

The 'ought,

The 'ought, is the it.

The moral or ethical standard.

In yourself, or society.

@#1

If you or your community value/ought such.

Maybe you have kids, and you believe you ought take care of them, until they're grown.

Implies,

You ought not be so stoned out of your mind, that you forget to feed your kids,

Or not so fat that you could die of a heart attack in the next 5 years.

Maybe you have a job, that requires physical exertion,

Maybe you can complete your tasks in a substandard manner,

But might be you feel employer and customers, deserve better more sincere service, for the money paid to you.

Maybe, you think it is good to have happiness and sanity,

Well, maybe you can be happy while morbidly obese to the point you can't leave bed,

Or on some drug that's fried your brain, perhaps you reject other's reality,

But I think most people would be happier in good physical shape, able to understand reality, and not be confused and scared.

Though 'too much good physicals shape, can be mentally and physically taxing to acquire,

And some people's circumstance so bad, they think it better to be drugged,

Though some people in the same circumstance, prefer not to be.

I'd say it just depends on what you value, want, ought.

People vary, in what they work towards, or think they ought.

I suppose in fiction,

A ghost could be like a projection,

You know, like a regular one projecting light,

Or a hologram,

Course the brain isn't in the projection,

But there is 'still a cause, arguably a brain 'moving the projection, responding to what they see from the projector to the projection,

And arguably, 'maybe one could project light enough, that it has some solidity to it, could 'move objects?

Course even with all this, it's still a trick, perhaps?

. . .

I suppose a game could have rules,

When a character is injured thus,

He must act thus,

D&D and many other games, have crippled limbs, or altered states of mind,

But I can't agree with such myself, that 'or his longer one,

Least my actions can't seem to.

The Ego rebels against such,

Though some people seem to play Call of Duty, with a fury,

Cursing and screaming, importance placed on kills and deaths virtual,

But this Earth,

I cannot live with such a belief of virtual,

Hm, I am rambling.

. . .

. . .

I don't much care for the controller idea,

Of body and mind,

Yet I can't account for the mind,

Though I suppose myself, it's all body,

Still I can't 'quite place the mind, consciousness, a person,

. . .

. . .

Though I don't say personhood and consciousness don't exist,

Will exists,

I'm aware of my leanings, aware of my thoughts, self, pains and pleasures. . .

Seemingly.

. . .

. . .

. .. 

What 'significance, or reality would be had,

In a fiction of existence, manipulated by a true intelligence?

No more blame, than a hammer moved over a nail,

Any blame to be placed beyond ken,

Though a character may end up in straights, suffer some karma,

They were moved there,

Controller is the one to answer,

But there is no controller that I perceive,

And question at times my own control, cause,

. . . .

. . . . . . 

@Barney

If we could freeze and unfreeze people,

I'd say people could freeze themselves, and unfreeze in time for election,

But freezing 'kills persons, so far as I know, currently.

Mental handicaps,

Seems there's still 'some ways to vote,

But I don't know the particulars of the law.

Not sure about coma patients.

. . .

I'd imagine we 'could design an AI,

Able to follow an algorithm, keeping to certain values and issues,

Better than many voters,

The AI could scan the information of all candidates, and be better informed, possessing more knowledge than many humans,

The AI 'still wouldn't be a person.

. . .

@Self

'When does a 'person die?

Of course I know a 'body dies,

And sure a brain is part of the body,

But when the heart stops, blood stops, air stops, only 'mostly dead,

CPR zzzt, and back,

Course some people get brain damage,

Might say a 'bit of the person died. . . 'or changed, transmuted.

Some computers 'die,

But still their Hard Drive can be recovered, long after,

Some people say we're all copies of ourselves some years past,

Some philosopher spoke of a swampman, and insisted continuity, essential in definition,

After all, replaced goldfish and gerbils may be much like the old one to an observing kid, but they aren't,

Ah, I'm rambling about confused.

Well, it can be nice to see many types of people in various sports, I'd say,

Though people of course have preferences.

I don't watch sports usually, myself.

Certainly I just see her as an average person myself, 'generally speaking, 'not the best of us.

Has some talent in sports likely, is tall, likely gets paid a fair amount of money, but that's all.

The source I base my opinion on,

Though there are many sources online.

Possibly she has a history of bad actions, but I don't care enough to speak or search on it.

All I say is I don't see the trade as something to praise the US government or Griner for.

If either of the Americans are guilty though,

I don't feel a 'particular need myself,

That they be ransomed home.

Not good in general to give other nations, leverage holds.

Of the woman,

Of both Americans,

Certainly, it might be said that a person who thinks they're a sex they are not,

Or is attempting to transition,

Might not be in the best mental health, and capability.

Of the prisoner exchange, I've no comment,

As I've not read much on it.

Polygamous relationship,

Polygamous marriage,

Different, but similar.

Sure, I can understand marriage in general, or specific traditional marriages of this or that, not being for everyone.

But societies have often had ideas of what marriage ought be,

And I'm not arguing for any specific form there, myself.

For Americans though, with a history tendency of heterosexual monogamous,

. . .

I don't 'much care myself,

But breaking a definition, breaks a definition,

It's why I'm leery of 'many initial laws,

Whether in guns, surveillance, property rights,

People like to get their entire body in the door at times, once they get a foot.

It looks nice and green, when I Google Wales,

Lot of land sloping up and down, hills, gray rocks by the water, some castles,

Also sheep.

Castles seem fun.