Lemming

I wonder if the people on this website, would make good material for a book?

Any community of characters does, I suppose,

One is able to see in character, action, interactions, idiosyncrasies,

Habits of life,

Of theories, viewpoints, actions, ideas,

Small patterns, one see's again in the large.

2,309 Debates on DART,

Separated into 21 Categories.

Maybe I miss them,

But the debates that ask for votes most often, 'seem like forfeit debates,

Rather than debaters wanting votes considering their 'arguments.

Which isn't 'wrong,

It's annoying to have a tie on one's record, when it feels not deserved, I imagine.

Due to another conversation elsewhere,

My mind returns to this topic,

Though I'm not sure if you're still around on the site.

Looking back on it,

My example a living hamster feeling pain, as opposed to a toy hamster not,

Seems flawed.

People exist who lack senses,

People who are blind, deaf, no smell, no touch, no taste,

Though perhaps not all at once,

Well, from birth. . .

Without experiences, senses,

A human does not develop as they usually would, (I assume, No ready example comes to mind)

Hm,

Feral children,

Clay may be clay,

But clay is not a pot, unless sculpted and fired.

People with Alzheimer's, lose awareness of themselves long term, but surely in their 'moment have awareness. . .

Ah. . . I'm rambling.

. . .

Returning to earlier posts,

Though a toy hamster may have energy, it is not organized in such a way as a living hamster,

I return to my water in a cup argument,

Consciousness not being the 'water, but the overflowing,

(I am vague, not intentional)

Thresholds, before something can 'be,

X amount of heat before flame,

X amount of cold before ice,

Though pressure can 'change requirements.

. . .

Hm, if I lost all my senses,

I suspect I would 'still be conscious of 'myself for a time,

Assuming I received what was necessary to 'keep me conscious.

I think, but do not know,

That the politics section of the forum,

Has more likes than any other section.

@zedvictor4

Hm, I feel like I've thought about consciousness in the past, but I've forgotten of what I thought.

Doesn't 'anything have an energy source?

Even rocks,

But a person braindead vegetable, is not 'thinking. . .

Animals respond to stimuli, have brains, neurons, memories,

Motion sensors respond to stimuli,

But really 'anything responds to stimuli, even rocks are effected by hammers.

. . .

Some people argue that fetus, does not have consciousness, awareness,

Do they?

Or do they mean human intelligence?

All these questions are rhetorical, and directed at me really.

. . .

Mental health patients, often say they don't 'feel like themselves on medications,

Even if when off medications they're manic, or have schizophrenia,

Hm, I imagine consciousness requires complex code, patterns, material,

DNA is vast, took long to become as we are now,

Brain effected by even vitamins, or lack of, lot in body effects quality of the brain,

'Human intelligence, I'm doubtful we can reproduce anytime soon.

@Tejretics

Ooh, say on, say on?

Is there a limit to the number of posts that can be made in a thread, on DART?

Of course my thought is not original,

But I was curious who in history might have spoken similar, before.

Well, I think consciousness is located/generated/is the brain,

So I imagine one might be able to Ship of Theseus the brain with metal parts, and perhaps remain the same consciousness,

But I've heard confusing arguments and theories about consciousness before, so I'm not certain.

I'd agree, that the individual acts in a method that is wrong a constructed idea of what is moral or immoral,

As is constructed/agreed upon by a society at large,

But if the individual 'acts,

I am speaking of 'their values of what is moral or immoral, right wrong, valued more or less.

They may value not killing,

But their action would show that they valued their own comfort and wealth, 'more.

. . .

Even if people lament their actions in jail, or out,

Do their actions not show what was valued most?

Hm, but maybe this is incorrect of me,

Mind and body bit separated at times?

. . .

. . .

Person does not want to drink, or smoke, or eat corpse,

But in end 'do drink, or smoke, or eat corpse,

. . .

Hm, but their body was not controlled by remote, brain cut off from limbs. . . 

. . .

You mention temptation clouding judgement,

Hm,

I'd agree that temptation/desire change the individuals values,

That once said temptation is fulfilled, their values might revert,

But that only applies to 'certain temptations,

Addictions for instance.

. . . .

'Does it apply to greed, self interest?

(Thinking)

'Thoughts are. . . Hm, 'are they the same as desire?

But then desire to kill, desire 'not to kill are the same, sofar in being desires,

Just a matter of which one is 'set,

And of course, humans see drugs as unnatural, shifting of values, judgement,

Should 'thoughts be 'different?

Dostoevsky had a novel, by the name Demons,

About Russian society and culture being effected by new ideas, as I recall.

. . .

Well, I ramble off topic,

I 'do agree that we could both be right,

A person becomes someone else, whether in short or long term,

Where their action is justified by themself,

Though their action may not be justified by societal norms, or their own norms, should they revert to earlier ethics.

I find that difficult to understand,

I understand that that people consider 'killing, to be wrong,

I understand that a person might kill other people to successfully rob a bank,

I Am 'Not saying that robbing a bank or killing people is moral.

(In this conversation)

. .

But onto my argument,

The individual considers killing people to be morally wrong,

Then kills some people to successfully rob a bank,

Their thought process, I imagine goes,

It's not good to kill people, but it's good to have money.

It's not good to kill people in war, but it's good to protect one's family.

In either case, a value is promoted as 'Good,

In the thought process, it is not immoral to kill and rob a bank,

Because money and self interest are good.

. . .

Hm, I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well.

Generally speaking.

If an enemy soldier surrenders,

Cannot we afford this?

If the enemy is pretending to surrender,

But repeatedly uses suicide attacks,

I can understand not accepting surrenders if no method can be found to be certain of their sincerity.

. . .

If we capture an enemy city,

Cannot we afford the citizens safety from our own troops?

Though it becomes a difficulty, if soldiers are citizens, or hide among them.

I am unwilling to condone killing everyone in the city.

. . .

Is the rape of the innocent, not a horror?

The populace's fear encouraging surrender,

Their blood and culture weakened,

Are not reasons enough, to allow such an act, by any soldier of honor matching my own.

. . .

Is torture acceptable?

Regardless of any truth it extracts or fear it imbues,

Laws of war I admire, do not allow such behavior.

Hm, I forget,

How is a person able to act in a way that they think is wrong?

I don't know where consciousness, is.

. . .

Of downloading,

I find it insulting more than scary, myself,

Well maybe a bit scary, if one considers further implications and abnormal norms of it.

Depending on what you speak exactly.

One doesn't take a singular piece of information online, when downloading,

A copy is created.

Somehow I find the idea of a copy of myself, insulting,

Were I to meet myself, I worry it might end up as ,The One (2001)

Because of my irritation,

At seeing my uniqueness of self/me, defied.

. . .

Various magic systems and advanced science fiction,

I've found disturbing at times,

Because of various horror fiction,

Sure people can be brainwashed in science fiction, Total Recall (1990)

Or fantasy, (Title With-held)

But there's nothing stopping a lobotomy in real life, person being imprisoned and 're-educated.

It's just how 'easy it is, 'what it is, and the fiction's description designed to induce 'more horror, that horrifies,

Though again, not really 'good in itself anyway.

I'm rambling,

But I bring it up,

As the idea of a virtual world, where others have such enormous power, I find frightening,

Though I suppose I live in material world where government has power,

They have different power, different presentation, that makes it 'seem normal.

. . .

Don't humans have an off switch?

Download is just transformation, of material, not pattern, I'd think,

If one is able to avoid copying oneself, and it 'truly able to change ones location, from meat and electricity, to metal and electricity.

:D

Funnily enough, yes.

I tend to leave DART on a tab of my computer,

And 'do enjoy the random thought thread, as a place just to idle, speak my mind.

What is more material than the inanimate?

I mentioned iceberg because you said,

Though, I suppose it 'would lack meaning,

If meaning can only be given by a conscious observer or intender.

. . .

Of True AI, I've yet to know,

Either in Strong AI or Conscious AI.

I remember using calculators in school,

I forget circumstance though, were they optional?

Lot of problems solved using written numbers, thinking in brain, finger counting, writing thoughts on paper as they progress.

Teacher's can't tell what's on a cell phone,

But a calculator has an intended purpose.

College less supervision, more autonomy, freedom, I suppose.

. . .

I could see cell phones replacing calculators,

Both are hand held, fit in pocket.

. . .

Of is a cell phone just a calculator with more features?

@#514 "react"

I don't think you're weird, many of the thoughts are interesting,

I tried listening to Pokemon Gen 4 and 5,

But wasn't really my thing, didn't seem worth it for me to say such, at  the time.

@#509 "Morals are objective"

I flip flopped many times, thinking on it, but decided not to state my thoughts,

I decided my response was more negative than positive, 

Ans as I wasn't tagged, had no duty to respond.

@#511 "gubernatorial elections"

I wonder which state.

@#515 "Sam O'Nella"

Who? Ah, Stick figure guy, talks about events.

@#514 "react"

Eh, they react with their own thoughts, I imagine.

Spam actually 'looks rather tasty to me, like hot dogs,

But I suspect is unhealthy,

I don't ever recall trying spam.

Future technology and it's implications, I find beyond my imagination, how it will change society, humans,

I can imagine changes, but not 'certain changes,

I see coinflips, but not the side that falls face up.

I think AI can be trusted to follow it's programming,

As a brick can be trusted to hold a house,

Though eventually perhaps, properties required to continue function, or unprogrammed questions will pop up.

An AI in a video game, will at times be unable to progress, where a human could,

Such as running out of resources, yet still have troops, just mill about base.

Though,

Humans will at times will be unable to progress where an AI could.

. . .

Of nihilism, I'm trying not to think about it, right this second,

Otherwise I should scream,

Also I feel bad at times, about encouraging such thoughts in other people.

. . .

An iceberg doesn't need thoughts, to progress to water.

Yes and no,

Something I remember from my childhood is camping,

And my Dad always made a point of leaving the campsite looking clean when we left.

But it also matches with general idea of leaving 'anything well, for the next person who uses it,

Wipe off gym equipment,

Pick up after dog on sidewalk,

Vote for eco friendly bills that prevent business from dumping waste in river that grandkids can't swim,

Or air that grandkids don't choke on pollution.

. . . 

I've heard that people used to think there were canals on Mars, that they thought evidence of life,

Of course now we know there is no life on Mars, supposedly,

I think there's not anyway.

Of human creations, I don't know 'how long they'd last,

I've heard before about pieces of trash lasting longer than other pieces of trash, paper compared to metal cans or glass bottles.

Surely some architecture would last longer than others,

Surely 'fossils of human works could exist, and there are some 'really old fossils of times before humans.

I couldn't say what will last to the end of the Earth,

End of the Earth 'sounds a long time away,

A time farther away than the end of 'life on the Earth,

What 'is the expected end to the Earth?

Black hole?

Exploded sun?

. . .

End of humans did cross my mind briefly as of late, on account of one of Avery's topics,

Sent my mind down a rabbit hole,

I don't really see why the 'world would be better without humans,

Animals still die, suffer, kill one another, even the plants.

Logically if humans were concerned about life, (In the sense of philosophers who think negatives outweigh positives)

Wouldn't they commit Ecocide - Wikipedia?

People argue abortions ought be preformed on fetuses with disabilities,

Doesn't an animal such as a cow have mental facilities far less than a human, short lifespan,

Is such a life 'worthwhile?

And as animals can't consent,

They ought be looked after and not taken advantage of,

Though meat is tasty,

And way to look after, would be to not allow any more of them to be born, if such a life is not seen as worthwhile.

'Weeiiiird rambling on my part here, unorganized,

But it has been on my mind last hour or two.

People vary on how much they plan for the future,

Certainly some, even if they won't be alive, like their works to survive,

Like to leave a footprint, an echo, a name.

Or hope that their efforts will prove to help 'something in the future,

Be it humans, tribe, nature,

More than their name.

. . .

Some people hold truth a value,

And strive to deeds and honor worthy,

Someone might clean their campsite,

That the next user, enjoy nature, not weary trash picking,

Duty.

I eat corn on the cob differently, depending on sudden inclination of feeling.

Usually though, I start on the left, eat to the right,

Rotate cob so the eaten part travels up,

Then I start on the left.

I prefer it off the cob though, gets stuck in my teeth less,

And I feel better about not having left any uneaten parts.

@sadolite

Total War,

Can backfire a bit though,

Rules keep people humane, in an inhumane activity.

Dampen down cycles of hate, retaliation,

PTSD, trauma and changes within soldiers, who experience.

It's better to not slaughter civilians, that one's own are not slaughtered,

Better to not collect trophies of skulls, that other's humanity is not forgotten,

Better to not kill POWs of the enemy, that one's own soldiers taken prisoner, are not killed,

Better to encourage a Christmas Truce, if only the Leaders would step back from insanity, and declare peace.

. . .

Though true,

There are situations, wars, battles, in which one's back is to the wall,

And life, victory for one's nation, is prioritized.

Or the rules of engagement aren't being followed by the enemy,

And seem a needless risk of petty benefit in honor,

Not benefit above one's soldiers' lives.

@Sidewalker

Heh, I like that movie, too.

Haven't we 'been under the threat of nuclear war, since we created nukes?

Just because nobody lit the fuse,

Just because people stopped talking about it,

Doesn't mean it's not there.

I'm not sure nukes would kill all humans though.

. . .

I don't know enough about global warming to have a strong opinion,

Though I acknowledge local shifts in nature,

Like short term, the Dustbowl in Grapes of Wrath,

As well as some global shifts,

Such as rising sea levels,

Maybe bad for future Florida, X hundred years in future, worthwhile for them to act now, but they won't I imagine.

I don't think minor global shifts and local shifts would kill all humans,

But I don't know anything about 'big implication.

. . .

Cyber concerns are a nuisance, than a death threat,

We survived before electronics,

'Could occur a lot of deaths, wars.

. . .

I find GMOs and mass vaccines concerning,

I think it better to store humans in separate honeycombs, than to effect 'all humans the same way.

. . .

Of AI,

I'm far too uneducated and uninformed to have an opinion,

I might not notice they're a thing until they're right in my face.

Never used it myself,

I hear it's a video sharing service, focusing mostly on short videos.

I don't understand why we would need more workers.

I don't understand economics very well,

I don't have much information either,

So my theories and conclusions on economics are likely flawed,

. . .

There 'is logic in immigration to me,

Power in relation to other countries,

In ancient China, during various conflicts of civil wars,

There is value in getting more people,

More people equal more farmers, craftsmen, soldiers.

Though I think it was more immigration 'within the country, than immigrants from without.

In costs,

I've heard the argument that when there are more people, goods are cheaper,

But I'm not sure if this is related to 'bulk sales somehow,

Or if when there are more people, they tend to spread out, giving access to more resource types.

There is also the argument of genetics,

Where one doesn't want too much inbreeding in a population,

But I don't know if there might be a certain size reached, where that's no longer a concern,

I'd 'think that it wouldn't need to be that large a size.

Argument of talent,

Countries want to steal intelligent and hard working people from other countries,

Which is good for the stealer, bad for the stolen.

I 'would think that Covid and the Russian situation,

Are large contributors to inflation.

I don't see a need to bring in more immigrants,

More immigrants means the worker is less valued, get's paid less,

I'm cherry picking, and did not read the entire article.

. . .

Why keep saying we need more and more people in the world?

Logically there's an 'eventual ceiling to the number of people,

People say 'AHHH Global Warming,

Maybe less people, less cars, would help with that.

Course a problem with less people is military rivalry with other nations.

. . .

Capitalism is doing fine.

. . .

Economy wise, I don't care about Ukraine War,

Human wise, it sucks,

Military Strategy wise, I don't know, face value it seems in USA interests that apparent Russian aggression be discouraged, that USA sphere of influence stay strong.

. . .

Government forces farmers to grow and not grow what Government wants, against farmers will.

. . .

I don't like big government having too much power,

But I'm not against new communities forming and acting as they plan.

Parts/Individuals of the universe might have their own, self created meanings, purposes, goals, intents, other than perpetuating the universe.

Maybe.

@Self #494

I suppose I often conflate meaning with personal value, importance, moral, 'ought,

. .

Because of the 'apparent choice within consciousness,

Sand in a hourglass, turned where the sand is atop,

Ought flow downward,

But this is ought in a different sense, perhaps,

What is meant is we 'expect the sand to flow downward, due to the nature of sand and it's surroundings (Gravity),

So long as a blockage does not occur.

Humans think they 'ought harm or help others. . . .

Be selfish or selfless,

. . .

Is this the same as sand?

I should X, because it is the right action,

A value is placed on a pedestal,

. . .

But it's really just an expectation again,

. . .

Nothing deeper to it,

In accordance with what one is, where they be, they will.

A serial killer ought to have killed X many people, once the act was done, for that was what they were,

A paramedic ought to have saved X many people, once that act was done, for that was what they were,

Yet we 'want for the pedestal,

For 'should and 'ought,

'More than physics of what 'will.

. . .

It's 'strange, ''strange, to be aware, seemingly,

. . .

To have desires, wants,

But they are not uniform,

No 'One pedestal exists,

Ah, but this is what I mean by vague,

I can't get a handle on my thoughts and what I mean.

. . .

There's also the problem I worry, of whether anything 'Is anything, but I ramble in confusion.

. . . A book might be read, and we look for meaning, lessons, what was, might have been.

. . .

Ah I find this topic unpleasant in this post, though ever my thoughts return, though frequency,

Perhaps by meaning, often is meant interest,

Is meant fulfillment of intention, desire, necessary to an end.

I think you're right that game design partially just went that direction because it was easy,

And people tend to follow what's been.

I also agree on personhood, conflict, narrative,

Being relatable, interesting,

As we 'are people.

. . .

Well, I suppose I'll continue my game design,

Of a world of different clans that will probably war against each other, and dangers such as bandits, undead, wild animals, that pop up in territories from time to time.

I 'think it makes some sense to me,

Though I am unsure if a function is the same as purpose,

Of "a point", I assume you mean intent,

. . .

On your God principle,

I'm just musing to myself about definitions,

Same words used by different cultures, different meanings,

Even in the same meanings, definitions askew.

It makes sense, but I don't currently believe in God myself,

Though I can understand how others and directions of thought, might.

. . .

@Self

Hm, definitions of purpose and meaning. . .

I don't really have any thoughts,

Been hearing something out the corners of my ears about Musk saying he's going to decrease the censorship on Twitter,

Something or other about him backing Republicans lately,

He's a guy with riches and time on his hands, it seems.

Can you rephrase your idea of, The purpose of existence?

Does it apply to the intelligent, conscious, inanimate, unconscious, all matter, all laws, science, cycles?

I don't mean any one of those in particular,

But state them to say I'm unsure of your meaning.

Ah, but I mean a member of the Minutemen - Wikipedia, might see themself as having chosen their own movement, position on the board.

Or a soldier who enlists for a specific war,

A soldier I suppose, 'chooses their vocation,

Or in a draft did not run away,

Not always easy to run away though,

And it's true once in, one is voluntold, and ordered,

Sent to sudden wars, that if they'd known were to occur, they'd not have enlisted.

. . .

Doesn't/Didn't feel much of a self made choice though,

When one marches in the first World War, against a machine gun, in accordance with orders,

Across minefields.

Eh true enough, much autonomy is given away, often, usually, by a soldier.

Well yes, no, always, sometimes.

People have an idea of community, tribe, their people,

Desire to defend it,

Or to take from others, raid, I suppose,

Motivations vary.

But if one's community is under attack,

One's water, family, land, livelihood, friends, self,

By a large external force,

Well, a choice available, to mass together, clump together,

With one's similar life forms,

Risk life and limb,

Though again, I think 'soldiers might be a bit different than 'warriors.

What do 'you mean, by the purpose of existence?

Well, as even a rock has a nature, has it's circumstance,

I don't disagree that material is likely to go certain ways,

Certain to go certain ways, though I certainly don't 'know those certain ways,

Though people don't always 'like their fates.

. . 

But might be you had some other definition in mind, of purpose.

@#10

Or to be the very best, like no one ever was. . .

@#1

I'd suppose even ideal countries tend to need militaries,

So long as inside and outside threats exist,

Though modern exceptions exist, List of countries without armed forces - Wikipedia

Maybe historical exceptions,

. . . 

Hm, do you count 'warriors the same as 'soldiers?

Standing armies were not always a thing.

I define nihilism inconsistently, vaguely, and poorly.

. . .

A lack of truth, right, objectivity, solid ground to stand on, I suppose.

A devaluation of meaning and purpose.

Would be my answer 'this minute.

There's probably times and places political violence achieves goals,

But a 'lot of examples where it's counterproductive to one's ends and ideals, 'do come to mind.

I'm not sure that constant sex would be the way a person ought be wanting to live, or living their life either.

Then again, maybe a person shouldn't be wanting to play video games at 'all that much,

But eh, oughts are bit arbitrary.

. . .

I suppose the thought pops into my mind,

More from what are people 'looking for in video games, by the fact they play them.

There 'is a lot of sex on the internet though, and games.

Hm, maybe I could divide the internet up into what it is, to see what people pursue/want.

. . .

I imagine sex is a bit taboo, at least because of culture,

Maybe also a bit innate,

Or 'capable of being innate, many different branches of behavior encouraged by genetics.

. . .

Couple online theories on why sex can be taboo are,

Evolution, it's a method to keep human population from exploding.

Evolution, because of families living together, it's a way not to get incest babies, by talking too freely about it and getting roused.

. . .

From my view it doesn't matter too much,

I'm doubtful 'any value can withstand deconstruction,

One of the reasons I'm a nihilist.

Mesmer's profile picture is likable, artsy.

I'm more for censorship, when kids are involved than adults,

Internet doesn't really have Identification of users though.

Still, this isn't some school website, or kids forum,

And I've rather have more freedom to say and read as I'd like.

. . . 

People 'have been banned on this website before,

Can't say I 'agreed with the ban, myself.

. . .

I think beliefs should be falsifiable,

Even the one's I strongly hold.

. . .

I probably 'would be for ban people for posting nude pictures, maybe excessive profanity.

Not really in the same vein though, I think,

Though maybe is for some.

I do not think society ends up,

Why not just help the poor, regardless of race.

It's resented I imagine,

Because it encourages thinking of people as being of different tribes.

Because it helps less qualified people, compared to more qualified, opposite of meritocracy.

Not everyone likes or would choose to live in socialism/communism.

Some people prefer a measure of individualism in their nation.

I don't think that a lack of tax paid optional higher education, or healthcare for all,

Leads to anarchy.

I don't dislike different ways of living,

So much as other people's ways of living being forced on me,

There's nothing stopping people who want to live in a communist or socialist state, from forming their own community.

And yet in earlier posts, you encourage affirmative action?

I'm sure there are many methods to help the poor,

Why not just help people in poverty?

. . .

Though if a person get's a college education and moves to a better job,

The community they sprung from, is not fixed,

Bail the water, but leave the hole in the hull?

Though a person may get medication for their heart,

The community still has only has fast food joints and junk food about,

Bail the water, but leave the hole in the hull?

Though I might be wrong about how helpful or not healthcare and college is,

To the community, To the individual,

I haven't studied it,

The thread though, questions why focus on race.

Why not just help people in poverty?