Lemming

Well, if there were 'no rules to voting, yes,

'Some rules though require one justify their vote, which becomes more difficult, depending on the rules and how greatly an argument strays from the rules.

I wonder why I don't hear of people being dubbed over,

And I don't mean for singing or another language,

But just people who have an awesome voice but not mannerism, or people who have an awesome mannerism but not voice.

Maybe it's hard to get the mouth and dub to match,

Easy in the case of Darth Vader, since the mask obscures his 'entire face,

Harder when 'not a mask covering the mouth or expressions.

. . .

Then again, Auralnauts do it pretty well.

Well, I have 'not outgrown history.

Personally, I a bit prefer high quantity low quality votes,

Over high quality no quantity votes.

I'm not sure I understand the greater point, that I think you're trying to make?

Well, people often make satire of social change in a direction they disagree with, so I'd imagine satire often, though not always, has a way of coming true.

The Jewish people have not forgotten their history thousands of years past, I do not think they will forget the Holocaust anytime soon.

Nor will the countries involved in WW2 forget it,

Even those uninvolved, the history of others can prove instructive.

The events of history do not stand alone,

Like drops fallen into a pond, their ripples carry on.

@#450

You are speaking of society becoming absurd, from your view?

In the manga Usogui,

There's a couple characters, described as seeing themselves and their actions from a third perspective,

As if they were not acting themselves, but observing an entity acting, I think it was.

Though I suppose it might feel freeing,

To speak of oneself in the third perspective,

Acknowledge as people do at times, causation,

Claim as people do at times, a lack of free will,

Though I find myself unwilling to.

But this cannot be, perception, consciousness, the mind is tied to the body,

If the material body and/or brain is effected, the perspective is effected,

Not as in the case of a glass window being effected, but the 'observer, . . . . . I 'think.

Valuable at times, in moderation, for seeing more clearly, materially,

But in it's extreme, what value has anything, robbed of subjective value, meaning, passion?

Just thinking on entrapment,

The action of tricking someone into committing a crime in order to secure their prosecution.

. . .

Why entrapment, other than the reason to win points, I mean?

One can learn by experience, one's actions, what one is capable of, if not wary, I suppose.

Perhaps entrappers believe only those already guilty or unworthy, would fall to the trap,

But everyone has a breaking point. . .

Perhaps entrappers believe that society is bettered, by removing people not as resistant to whatever trap is suggested,

But individuals are ends in themselves, I believe.

Perhaps entrappers believe that to discourage others of falling into the trap, examples must be made,

But that is bitter tasting.

Drummer Hoff was a children's book, I read as a kid, colorful pictures,

Describes a group of soldiers, going about the firing of a cannon,

Thinking as he did, that said actions were necessary,

That they ought be preformed in such a way that the executioners lasted longer than shorter,

Or his desire for the people that he valued, the executioners, health be cared for.

Still I don't care for it,

Responsibility to those who ought not have been victims, should have been a higher priority.

. . .

'Necessary to what end, and why 'only said method?

. . .

Still, who am I to talk?

. . .

Oh right, I'm Lemming,

Ought I feel more guilt at the border question?

3RU7AL's comments I recall somewhere, about life and death for some people seeking asylum, 'does bother me.

. . . Though I think I still see it as necessary. . .

Or Uragirimono's comments, as I recall, on other ways that people could be helping, saving others. . .

Ah, but who am I to talk. . .      : (

Is one 'aware, during intense pain or pleasure?

The thought occurs as I wonder if it'd not be better to abandon oneself 'completely to hedonism,

Though one could argue different 'types of hedonism,

. . .

But I mean drugs for example,

Is it much different from death?

People drugged out, whether from alcohol, mushrooms, opium,

Though maybe I'm viewing drugs wrong,

Some people talk of drugs as experiences, opening their minds, or intense awareness of pleasure.

But psychedelics are 'not reality,

Though perhaps video games aren't either,

But then does 'anything become reality?

. . .

I recall coworkers talking about some patients, preferring their insanities, to the effects of their medications,

The dulling of personality.

Either or, a damnation of sorts.

But then what is 'normal, 'natural?

Hm. . .

Not 'completely random thoughts, but a fair bit, rambling, going nowhere .

Well, if you like, let me know after you finish it, what your arguments are,

I've become mentally invested in this thread,

Thinking about responsibility, expectation, blame, guilt, and such,

But don't feel I've really gotten a grasp at what you're getting at or thinking yourself.

How goes/went the school assignment, and your own perspective on the question of responsibility?

@RationalMadman

No, as no reason occurs as to why,

Maybe to relieve some people of worries about the president's power targeting them, but I don't think that's much of a worry,

I forget the powers of the DART president, but I don't think they can just ban people,

Really president is too lofty a title,

Representative would be well enough.

@NoOneInParticular

Is alieve not a word, or at least not the word I thought it was?

@#62

Maybe people are getting used to the internet then,

Became popular in the 90s I 'think,

So maybe media/news went haywire from the new socializing of humans,

Well, maybe society is 'still getting used to the internet.

I like how it reminds me of early American Vice President policy.

Well, one doesn't always know other people's circumstances, so I don't have anything bad to say against him.

I also hold the view that even if an inanimate rock had won, it doing nothing would be fine, buyer beware, . . Well, 'voter beware.

Somehow I find SupaDudzs description more alarm ringing than your own,

Wearing face masks doesn't seem that large an issue for development to me, but maybe having seen the face regularly during formative years is something I take for granted,

It's not as though 'all people are wearing a mask, family, TV, people are still seen without masks.

Also seems to me people still have time to encounter microbes, though maybe not 'as much as they might have had. . .

I 'do remember being sick way more when I was young, than as an adult,

Though I don't know if that's because children are more susceptible, or if there's a lot of sicknesses we get as a kid, become immune to as adults.

I dislike it when people make redundant threads.

I don't know enough about chatbots to make a conclusion,

Couldn't Shila be a chatbox part of the time, and post human comments other parts of the time?

Or intentionally acting like a bot?

Unrelated to the question of them being a bot, or a ban,

I find them often irritating, by their frequency and 'usually inane or insulting comments.

. . .

Though it's possible there's a culture, age, or other divide,

That explains their comments.

Does it matter if,

Fellow in the South lynched someone because he hated Blacks, and thought he was decreasing their number in his land as good,

or

Fellow in the South lynched someone because everyone else in the mob was doing it?

Seems more likely than not,

That the instigator was hateful, than noncaring,

Shouldn't the leader who led and incited, ordered and planned be 'most responsible?

Not that the go alongs were 'good.

Not everyone values their offspring.

Regardless if Zealous or Ambiguous,

Interaction was had,

Choices made,

What can one expect a person to have done, but what they did?

To have done different they'd need be a different person,

People responsible for their actions and inactions as a cog is responsible for turning?

Even if one is directed or manipulated by another,

The bullet is responsible for a man's death,

The man who fired the gun is responsible for a man's death,

Is a person who values pleasure to blame for their diabetes?

People in positions of power, we expect to result in greater influence, they are greater cogs,

A person may not be 'fit for their position, but they are in it nonetheless, responsible, a point of large interaction.

Don't feel a need to read the below,

Just don't want to delete my thoughts.

Drummer Hoff, Pvt Pyle, Guard dog, Rabid dog, Hess, Spasm, Control, Intent, Understand, Cog, Laws of Gravity, Beating a cog can change it's shape, Beating a cog in anger, Beating a human can change their shape, beating a human can change other human's shapes, why beat a cog in anger, why beat a human in anger, beating a cog will not change other cogs shapes, Retribution, To the best of your abilities, What happens if succeed, fail, To you, To task, Right time place person, Brain tumor, Psych self improvement and agency, desire for or not revenge an evolutionary trait, We are avatars of our own nature and experiences, If a sliver causes my pain burning the tree that gave it will not remove my pain, Value X more than X leads to X, Death Larsen, Being part of existence our insides are part of nature and nurture, don't watch your legs centipede, Can a choice be made for you, Problem of sets, But to not be my ego screams in defiance, How can anything be valued without an observer, Expected ability of individual, No one there but pieces, Atheism killed meaning by it's method, Sliver came from bark bark from tree Hitler was a piece of bark, What is justice fairness, Chance inside and out occurs that expected outcomes do not result, Psychology depends on will of individual to change except for AA where drinker accepts their weak will or high dependence has left them unable to choose to quit, We identify with and are our parts, Maybe word moral confuses me, S**t happens, Manson, Djinni, Guilt vs Pain, Milgram Experiment, Stanford Prison Experiment, Patty Hearst Stockholm Syndrome, People always have a choice,

Harm is a vague word,

A person's looks/quality of life, are harmed by scars, by excess skin, weight,

Weight 'can be lost, but it's not always easy for people.

Some life saving operations 'do carry risks, but usually the individual being operated on 'chooses those risks,

And there 'are risks everywhere in life, but the chance and degrees vary,

Not everyone is effected the same by pregnancy I'd agree,

Some situations 'are temporary,

But pain and discomfort 'still isn't something people want inflicted on them by others, 'even if temporary.

Some people lose teeth from gingivitis, uncommon as you say though.

. . .

For some people , the perceived harms are a greater consideration than an unborn at X stage of development.

I also find it more difficult, to consider an unborn sacred, the further back in development it goes,

As I do not believe in souls,

Though I still think even an embryo, is a new unique life, myself.

People also don't like receiving lottery tickets for harm, even if the chance of harm is low,

Or people who ''do hit the misfortune jackpot.

@#17

I'd suppose mobs blame themselves less,

Though I agree with you on people still being responsible,

People can get caught up in the heat of a moment,

Crimes of passion,

At times are forgiven by people,

As said individual or group lost control of themselves,

As compared to a person who stays in cold command of themself,

And with self control acts.

Of Frederic and Voltaire,

Just thinking about people fixing themselves, immediate area, before fixing the world.

But,

It's not really 'good, to be 'too withdrawn,

WW2 is a prime example of people failing to be proactive, due to the harms of WW1.

Of Francis Bacon,

I'm just thinking on how I like talking with people at times.

Of Bruce,

That such ought apply to the mind as well as the body, I'd figure.

Of Ramiro, just thinking on duty, expectation, varies through history, cultures.

The malaria therapy (or malaria inoculation,[1] and sometimes malariotherapy[2]) is a medical procedure of treating diseases using artificial injection of malaria parasites.[3] It is a type of pyrotherapy (or pyretotherapy) by which high fever is induced to stop or eliminate symptoms of certain diseases. In malaria therapy, malarial parasites (Plasmodium) are specifically used to cause fever, and an elevated body temperature reduces the symptoms of or cure the diseases. As the primary disease is treated, the malaria is then cured using antimalarial drugs.[4] The method was developed by Austrian physician Julius Wagner-Jauregg in 1917 for the treatment of neurosyphilis for which he received the 1927 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine.[5]

No, I still 20% suspect you are a bot.

None come to mind,

Not something I think on 'too often.

My suspicion that you are a bot just increased to 90%, with post #6,

Then down to 20%, as I reconsider past posts of yours, as well as the nature of people to be trolls sometimes.

No, I'm waiting to see if bibliobibulimaniac is still around,

Then I might be able to satisfy my curiosity of what they want out of this thread, why they created it,

I am curious of peoples reasons, motivations, at times.

Somehow the word 'responsible confuses me in this thread,

I'm sure it's mostly me though.

Perhaps a more fanatic individual, is more willing to take 'on responsibility,

More willing to keep to it,

Have it in their thoughts and considerations.

Perhaps a person 'not so fanatic,

Is able to consider their responsibilities more objectively,

As they may not 'care so much about said responsibilities, they can see them clearer,

People at times ignore faults in items that they love, seeing only what they love in said item.

A fanatic individual might 'only be willing to be responsible to the item of their fanaticism,

But reject responsibility of that which they are not fanatic about.

True a winning move to hegemony on Earth,

Would be to bunker down, enact Armageddon, yet survive.

. . .

But nukes on a single country, by Russia currently against Ukraine,

Might instead lead to his downfall,

American bombs in WW2, a different scenario.

One would rather accept a bad individual, who increases the values one holds,

Than accept a good individual, who decreases the values one holds.

Becomes a Pros and Cons list,

Sometimes a member of the opposite party, will increase the values one holds,

More than the member of one's own party.

Well, better to know a person, than not.

What's wrong with cherry picking?

I Googled "how many abortions are given late"

Looked for a webpage that supported my argument,

Looked at the arguments in the webpage to see if they made sense to me,

Used said arguments in my arguments here.

I am using our conversation to test my beliefs,

And any sources I happen to use,

If my sources are proved invalid, no matter how many I use, I'll probably change my views, some.

If my sources are proved valid, my views will strengthen,

I've always debated using sources in this fashion, from what I remember,

Because until I'm well read on a subject,

I'm fumbling through sources a bit blind,

It's only by grabbing and testing some, that I can gain being well read.

If I was arguing 'alone, with myself,

I'd be reading articles that disagree with me more,

But as we're debating, it's valuable for me, to use you as a test of my beliefs and sources.

Abortion is not a subject I'm well read in.

. . .

I'm doubtful of other peoples claims to knowledge in statistics and sources,

'Especially sources,

Numbers 'OFTEN do no mean what people think they mean.

I have not yet made up my opinion on the statistics or sources of Abortion Life or Choice,

Well, I 'have, being Pro Life,

But it's still something I view as needing to be questioned a lot, before I'm on comfortable footing.

Also based on the source I used,

For 'me,

Pro Choice 'claims of what is happening, becomes questionable.

. . .

Much of the media and public is too 'woke for my liking, too anti Right,

I'm of the opinion that this is warping their perceptions and realizations.

Also values.

Pro Choice, 'looks and sounds to me, Pro Death,

Too 'much people saying they can do 'whatever they want with their unborn until it's born, because choice.

No, I was just looking for something to cherry pick,

Like I said, sources are a weak point for me.

But,

The article talks about 'multiple studies,

One of the main points of the article is argument that our current data is inadequate.

(I think)

It also says,

Utah is the Mormon state, Florida is a Right state.

. . .

I'd a agree a doctor is better suited than a not doctor, to say when a mothers life is in danger.

I should try to keep in mind that pundits are not objective news,

Seem to be so blasted many of them though.

Thank you for the invitation, but I shall currently continue to refer to myself as Pro Life.

Statistics and sources 'are a huge weak point for me,

Not just regarding abortions, but for knowledge in general.

A coworker of mine liked to joke, no uterus, no opinion,

That's true in a way, false in another.

My 2nd brother's body is his own,

But when he is 'literally, I'll say it again, 'literally insane from meth use,

And highly addicted to it,

I 'deeply feel bad, that I do not break the law and try to get him sane and unaddicted off it,

Though it's likely he would hate me for it, and go back to meth anyway, still have values I disagree with.

. . .

I think it's too bad, that in Oregon we can't have him involuntarily admitted, until sane.

When a person is bullying another, or kicking a dog, beating their child,

It is not my body involved, just theirs,

But that's not true,

I receive sensory information of the seen,

My body 'is being effected.

And morally, a question is being offered.

The unfortunate part though, is that stepping into some situations, will only make it worse,

Though 'other situations can be stepped into, or stepped differently.

. . .

Earlier in a thread I mentioned Mencius,

I think he's wrong in his conclusions, there are alternate reasons one might act or not act, and even if not caring not acting, would still be human.

But that's semantics on my part.

. . .

What matters is the normative response for me, and people I tribe with,

To be expected 'is to be concerned, to help the child,

Even if the child complains they want to play by the well.

. . .

I'm pretty sure people can kill the unborn without the help of a doctor.

. . .

I do not mean the below as arguments that I am correct,

As I said earlier, statistics and sources are a 'Huge weak point for me in knowledge,

But I 'do mean them as an argument of why 'I am less than certain that Pro Choice is as Pro 'life as it claims.

"Defenders of late-term abortion frequently make the assertion that late-term abortions are “almost always” carried out in cases of severe fetal abnormality or danger to the mother’s life. In reality, the concept of “medical necessity” in the context of late-term abortion is misleading, and many late-term abortions are elective, frequently complicated by coercion, indecision and partner abandonment. In reporting on the results of a study of late-term abortions in 2013 (Foster, Kimport) in the journal Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health, a publication of the pro-choice Guttmacher Institute, the authors acknowledge that “data suggests that most women seeking later terminations are not doing so for reasons of fetal anomaly or life endangerment.”  Using interviews and questionnaires, the authors compared 272 women who obtained abortions at or after 20 weeks with 169 women who had abortions prior to 20 weeks and found that the rationales cited by the two groups were essentially the same – stressful circumstances of unprepared pregnancy, single-motherhood, financial pressure, and relationship discord.  The Foster-Kimport study excluded for comparison an unidentified number of women who had abortions for reasons of life endangerment or fetal anomaly, a significant limitation.  In an April 2018 report for the Congressional Research Service, however, Dr. Foster is cited as believing “that abortions for fetal anomaly ‘make up a small minority of later abortion’ and that those for life endangerment are even harder to characterize.”

Again, not meant to convince you,

This is just a random website I clicked on.

I'm also paranoid about people lying and intentionally misrepresenting their side, not 'You,

But movements in general, also the media,

That it is difficult to 'have objective view of facts, situations.

Though I should also probably be paranoid about Pro life and Right people misrepresenting their side,

And I 'am,

It is a 'Huge problem,

I am a fair bit in low spirits, because the Right seems to have so few options expected to win, that I approve of.

Though I consider myself Independent,

I've either been drifting Right,

Or society and/or power been drifting Left,

Maybe both.

But I'd rather have a corrupt politician who advances my values,

Over a somewhat corrupt politician, who advances values opposed to my own.

@#107

Sudden mass killers aren't 'always suicidal, but it seems they often are,

Though I speak of the common people mass killers, shooters, bombers and such.

Of mass killers on a national level. . .

. . .

I suppose great sorrow, betrayal, loss might lead one to such an action on a global scale,

Hitler for example and the Nero Decree - Wikipedia,

Though maybe drugs, mental illness, ego, delusion, might have had something to do with that specific case as well.

The Cambodian genocide - Wikipedia, 

Not necessarily suicidal,

But look what can happen in some situations.

. . .

I'm not arguing 'for the destruction of all life on Earth (In this post)

But capability in technology and people 'do exist,

Though they might not be in the time and place to cause such, ever or yet.

@#216

I 'did reply to your trapped question,

First in a reply where I had misread your meaning,

And thought you meant 'I would be trapped by logic, to no longer be Pro Life,

If I no longer thought an unborn was equal to a born.

The 2nd reply, in which I clarified I had misread your post,

But then stated 'even if a person pregnant felt trapped,

I'd be uncomfortable letting them terminate their unborn at certain stages.

If a mother was 10 minutes from birth, fully formed ready for birth unborn,

And she said nah, I suddenly don't want to,

.

I find myself unable to consider her right to choose, more important that the unborn's life.

If there was a high chance of the mother dying in the pregnancy,

Her right to choose would be more important to me than the unborn's life,

Though I'd still be uncomfortable killing the unborn, and rather the risk be taken,

I would see it as the mother's choice.

. . .

The further from full development an unborn get's,

Such as before it's brain forms,

I'd be willing to see it as the mother's choice,

Though I'd still be uncomfortable with the unborn being terminated.

. . .

Personally I think a large problem in this discussion, are the terms Pro Life and Pro Choice,

And I've said this before,

Many people are 'willing, though uncomfortable to compromise.

But I find myself unable to compromise with people who are 'too Pro Choice,

I'm 'also unable to compromise with people too Pro Life,

But I'm not being given the option to disagree with the extremes,

I'm only given the option to be Pro Life or Pro Choice.

There 'are situations where I'd be willing to accept that women get abortions,

There are situations I'd be unwilling to accept women get abortions.

@#253

I've been asked a similar question before by 3RU7AL in #265 Supreme Court Votes to overturn Roe v Wade Draft Shows. (debateart.com),

I'm glad to be asked it again,

Not because I think my answer right,

But because it is valuable to let some time pass, then consider questions again.

I also avoided 'answering 'directly last time, I'll 'try more directly this time.

. . .

But no, I hesitate, before choosing the 8 year old, though I 'do choose the 8 year old.

Don't feel a need to read the below, just rambling.

. . .

There's 'something in the question,

Quantity vs Quality. 'Maybe.

Were there 2 adults, one severely mentally handicapped to the intelligence of a toddler,

Would I choose the adult more intelligent, more a person, or the adult more innocent, needing protection.

Were there a member of my family and 2 strangers, I'd choose my family.

Were there a friend and 2 strangers, I'd choose my friend.

Were there a friend and 1000 strangers, they'd have to be one heck of a close friend for me to choose my friend.

Of course these are more advanced humans than an embryo. . . Question of value. . .

I say earlier in this post, the further development get's to an embryo, the further I feel uncomfortable curtailing the mother's freedom of choice, to the point I'd step out of the question and leave it for others to decide,

Though the discomfort of destroying an embryo 'never truly leaves me.

Likewise the further development get's a newborn, the further I feel uncomfortable allowing the mother unlimited freedom of choice, to the point I am unwilling to let the law give her unlimited freedom of choice.

. . .

It's a painful question, the Trolley,

Hm, no, I don't think I managed to directly answer the question, if anything my indecision has 'grown over considering it and the value of human life.

Some might say I directly answered it by choosing the 8 year old, but they might not see my underlying thoughts and logic,

Conclusions I come to,

That it's best to 'avoid ever allowing trolley situations to occur in 'real life,

Though they are still valuable theoretical considerations.

No, that I'll get a headache.

@TWS1405

I'm 90% sure, Shila is not a bot.

@Shila