Lemming

If I believed in God,

I would not believe he burns humans in Hell forever,

Even when I 'did believe in God, I did not hold such a belief.

I believe that many who believe in God,

Have faith, that he is good, just, 'worthy of their devotion, for more than fear, 'BAH on the fear.

Though they do not know 'everything about God, existence, or why.

If the fear matters, it's in how an unjust and evil life harms oneself, and those around them.

Though I admit not all hold my perspective.

. . .

Well, perspective of what Christianity is, and aspires to,

'Still an atheist myself, and prefer serving 'myself.

No,

Christian is too wide and vague a belief,

To say they all believe the same concept of God, Afterlife.

There's also not an issue with honoring one's father or mother,

Why an issue with honoring God?

Irrigation is an ancient technology, though it does improve with material, tech, money.

I don't agree that nations 'need trade with one another, to better their circumstances.

I also think that when there are X people, jobs can logically become a closed circle system.

Trade can also worsen circumstances, preventing nations or communities from creating their own infrastructure,

Leaving them at mercy of foreign nations whims.

It's 'better to be self-sufficient.

. . .

Mind you, I'm not 'against trade between nations,

But I don't agree with the Holy Grail status you give it.

And I think nations ought be able to provide themselves the essentials, 'before trade.

@badger

Adaption 'does seem to me a strength of Capitalism.

@Discipulus_Didicit

I did click on it,

I agree that the chart might show 'your thought process,

But I don't agree that it shows the 'truth.

I don't think a sex change is synonymous with a circumcision,

Still, I don't really have strong views,

But what views I have, are pretty much in this debate.

@badger

You assume that they 'will invest in their own infrastructure, build jobs, be 'able to appeal to other countries by these other jobs.

But if the population booms with no thought to infrastructure, disaster awaits, (Seems to me),

There is a reason that many boom towns in America, are now 'Ghost Towns,

Because 'Trade, was placed over self reliance,

Though I admit another option might be 'other types of trade,

And I'll admit some locations have greater difficulty in being self sufficient than others.

Sorry, I'm still going to have to think a while about what makes a country rich,

I'm not certain that it's 'just trade.

@zedvictor4

I prefer small government,

It's also a concern when one 'allows others to control their power,

For example when an individual is reliant on their partner in a relationship,

There is an imbalance of power, sometimes unhealthily so,

As they 'must obey the wishes or whims of their partner, trapped by reliance.

Understandable that some people are too lazy,

Or wish to trade convenience for. . autonomy, I often do so myself.

But I admire Switzerland's gun policy,

Which may not so much be individuals acting 'freely, and choosing to join the military,

But the idea of the number of households that possess guns, practice gun safety, impresses me.

It 'might be that I am wrong in my view that everyone should be greater misers with their money like me,

Though 'I'm not even so great of a miser as I'd like to be,

But I think People'd be better off providing 'more for 'themselves,

Than their 'buying from others,

In their consumption of media, toys, junk food.

. .

Self and Community driven activities, hobbies and crafts, food baked in one's own oven.

@badger

I imagine Saudi Arabia got the money from oil, (Finite Resource)

What will they trade, when they run out of oil?

If they have nothing to trade, how will they eat?

I see your point, but once you have X amount of people, material, and land,

X expectations,

Doesn't seem to be a 'need for other countries.

@Discipulus_Didicit

Flowcharts can be fun.

Oh yeah, watch me mention 2, kind of.

China, as Britain force fed them opium,

The Native Americans trading land for X.

@Lemming

Convergent evolution, Parallel evolution,

Technologies, advances in economies, land, exist, even without interaction.

Did Russia and America need to trade with each other to reach space?

A person wouldn't need to life 'purely off their garden,

For it to help them out some.

I am not related to Alec/TheUnderdog.

Eh, mainly started thread as I don't understand economics all that well,

So curiosity of details in claims.

You're very sarcastic last couple posts,

Topic irritate you, or something in your life?

If some communities took a more active interest and role in their communities,

I don't think some would require big government 'so much.

Home garden is a reasonable addition to homes that have the capability for such,

I've not said anyone would be 'rich, if they focused more on self sufficiency,

Though perhaps some countries 'would become richer, if they invested in their own infrastructure, rather than relying on trade,

War seems too large a risk to me, (Nukes) though I wonder when Peace becomes too large a risk,

At a shallow glance, sanctions, gathering international support to condemn Russia, supporting Ukraine through supplies, volunteers in the Ukraine Legion,

Seem a logical way to go about it,

Even if not victorious, puts our money where our mouth is, helps in future situations, people know we do as we say.

@Deb-8-a-bull

They 'are agile little fliers.

@ebuc

People certainly 'seem to drift away mentally at times, some situations more than others, some people more than others.

Well, your thoughts were 'still active, 'even if you started thinking about something else,

And even if you 'did start thinking of something else,

Recent reading may still have been your main thoughts,

Or if not, underlying thoughts.

Well, there's no reason a Democracy 'couldn't choose to focus on self sufficiency,

Though when I say if 'I formed a country, it 'does sound dictatorial.

Certainly trade 'can form strong bonds between countries, and likely often does.

'Or negative bonds if a country is forced into trade, taken advantage of in trade, reliant on another country for trade.

I like cities that if they experience a natural disaster, they are able to handle it themselves, without big government needing to step in.

I like cities that can fix their own schools broken heater, rather than requiring government funding.

I like home gardens, for times of emergency or cheap vegetables.

I dislike 'large trading and uncertain jobs reliant on such and others.

It's more about accepting one's circumstances, than wanting the cheapest or finest quality goods.

(Edit)

Also self sufficiency.

Bah,

No one needs the leatherworkers as much anymore.

I get your argument though,

When cars came about, people in horse business complained,

But people transitioned,

I'd have been fine with the leather shirts though.

If I formed a country, trade would be limited,

And focus would be on self sufficiency.

What will the leather suppliers do?

What will the leather shirt makers in Londen do, now that another country has taken their job?

Eh, people who 'own companies get richer, often,

Not 'always workers or country.

No, I trust what you might come up with on your own,

Hm, fair point,

'Still seems bad to become reliant on others,

Though perhaps difficult to 'not be 'bit reliant on others at times.

A little bit.

Settlers of Catan 'is a fun game.

@Dr.Franklin

Only 'true Autarky on Wikipedia, seems to be North Sentinel Island - Wikipedia.

Though I'd imagine the lifestyle is primitive compared to our own, in medicine, technology, resources, luxuries.

As you say, lacking access to those resources on their land, and lacking at all, since they don't trade, that I've heard.

Are all resources 'necessary though?

@badger

Still it seems to me that once a certain size of people and resources is reached,

One doesn't 'need to trade.

I don't know that any country 'has that though.

Let's say that there is an island, with 10 unlimited resources and 10 people,

So they divide the jobs,

I suppose 10 jobs at once might be difficult,

Then suppose that there are 2 Islands, 10 unlimited resources and 20 people,

So they divide the jobs,

Let's suppose at this point, they are doing the minimum amount of work required for the job.

Then suppose that there are 3 islands, 10 unlimited resources and 30 people,

Would the first 20 people have 'any need to trade with the newest 10 people?

Surely a country could conceivably have enough people and resources, that it doesn't 'need to trade with other countries?

We don't 'need to trade though,

The stop trading only hurts, 'because we started trading.

For example, let's say you know how to hunt, and how to make clothing,

One day your neighbor says he'll hunt, if you make clothing,

You agree,

But then several generations later, his grandson says he wants double the clothing for half the food he usually trades,

But your grandson doesn't know how to hunt, and either starves to death, or gored to death by a wild boar.

'Sure there's 'some advantages in trade,

A person able to dedicate themself to one craft might be more efficient,

But why bother with the trust fall.

'Better to be sufficient for oneself, and 'limit trade.

'More so for a 'large country, if they've all the requirements, that they 'can provide themselves all they need.

To avoid reliance on other countries.

That they can't threaten sanctions,

Or that if they experience turmoil, you still have your 'own material.

Though if oneself experiences turmoil, trade gains more value,

Though better to just have stockpiles and honeycomb crops, manufacturing for oneself.

So even if cotton can't be grown, 'other materials might be valid options.

And cotton becomes luxury item.

Though it's likely I'm missing vital functions of cotton, such as availability, or being better for swaddling babies or something.

@Discipulus_Didicit

What did people wear before cotton? (Half Joke)

@oromagi

I see sanctions against Russia as reasonable option,

Though sanction sound often double edged sword, that can also hurt oneself.

'Depends though, on convincing enough of world for sanctions to hurt.

If 'other markets exist, sanctions maybe not do too much damage,

Though still value in convincing others to stand against Russian actions, through more than words.

USA sanctions on Cuba, North Korea, made certain, they stayed in arms of USSR, China, I 'think.

. . .

@Lemming

Will Russian oil lacking, lead to more drilling, fracking in USA,

Or to more Green Energy?

I agree with the idea of scarce resources of certain types, at times, encouraging trade,

But it seems a mistake, to tie one's job market to other countries, without a fallback. (IE Cotton Job Loss)

Fair point on Greek Fire.

I 'think, but am not certain that you are wrong about Fanta and Coke,

Fair point about Detroit,

And there 'were more factors in cities decline than 'just motor industry,

I mention it mainly, as 'other people can make cars too,

Which was one of the factors that lead in decline.

Why?

I'm unfamiliar with Putin's record of policy or statements on Green Energy?

Why does trading with more people matter?

I can understand the importance of technology, more people, means a scientific problem is solved sooner, thus there is value in trading technology, that oneself is not left in stone age.

I understand that some groups due to environment, secrecy, copyright, or choice,

Have monopolies,

Crops grow better in some regions, only Greeks know how to make the Fire, Coke is owned by a company, Detroit makes the cars.

But once you have a location, within your own territory, or a partner, what does it matter if someone refuses to trade?

Take the American Confederacy, Britain, and India,

As I recall, the Confederacy tried to use fact that Britain traded for their cotton as diplomatic leverage, but Britain simply shifted to using India more for cotton.

The Greeks had the secret of Greek Fire, 'but technology is possible to be discovered by others.

Modern Flamethrowers, Roman Concrete forgotten then reinvented, so on.

Coke has copyright on Coke,

But WWII Germany can just invent their own soft drink, Fanta. One also see's countries ignore copyright, and create their own knockoffs of culture, China and it's banning of certain Western media, and conveniently inventing their own similar.

Detroit made the cars, until they didn't, we all know what happened to Detroit.

. . .

I also understand what investments 'can be made in other countries, and it hurts when these investments are 'suddenly taken away or illegally confiscated.

But surely not all one's 'necessities are invested in other countries?

Eh, I'm not so keen to argue against it, as I dislike getting myself dirty, with a topic I already with certainty consider wrong,

I'm not going to change my opinion,

'Maybe could change yours, but based on your posts I doubt it, I also don't care much.

Also not a significant number of people advocate for it, that it's a threat to culture, as is.

I 'am for imprisoning people who engage in bestiality,

And eh, most the time I'm probably going to avoid people who engage in it,

I think it's wrong, and according to my aesthetics, gross.

I don't feel a need to chant shame,

But do think, eh, kinda messed up.

Ah, I remember reading about Esther in the Bible,

Didn't know there was a holiday around it though.

'Does sound the message one get's from it.

I don't like Rap,

But it's interesting for music to take an interest in politics,

Eh, Reagan had faults, but he's a nice speaker, I like some of his thoughts and what he's done, been part of.

Was more Bipartisanship back then, I 'think.

I'm not fond if Big Government.

Aliens from space, bandits, separatists, rebels, terrorists, so on.

Common enough in history, you just assume your own values.

Aliens from space, bandits, separatists, rebels, terrorists, so on.

4. No groups will fight wars.

Gangs, Mafia, different beliefs, Democrats Republicans, Sunni and Shi'a.

The beliefs, values, differences will not disappear simply because you say one country.

Though 'maybe largeness of conflict 'might fade a bit.

When I was a kid, there was a neighbors dog, on the other side of a chain link fence,

I remember often enough racing from one side to the other, trying to be faster,

I remember when I had a dog of my own, running on the beach,

I 'think the dog was trying to run faster than me, or was he running 'with me, but just far faster?

There are animals that slam their horns in competition,

Or have contests of 'showy behavior.

I imagine most horses like running with the pack, or at the 'head of a pack. .

I imagine a horse 'might connect being first with being praised right after.

Can't they make their own cheeseburgers, sodas, and such?

Ironically, this will only make the Russians healthier, (Joke)

I don't think Russians will choose Big Mac over Putin,

Though they 'might choose a different idea of morality, above Putin's course of morality.

Couple of my family members believe the Oligarchs will abandon Putin,

But I think rich people are sometimes patriots,

As well as sometimes not 'so powerful as their wealth 'seems.

Though to some people opposing Putin 'is their idea of patriotism.

What do you mean?

Of music I'd think of as 'Nordic, not much, and even my former suggestions, only a couple or few I'd call Nordic,

Still, in that 'direction, 'maybe?

I know it's a false argument on my part,, but the situation makes me want to make a snide remark anyhow.

No wonder the Russians are bold.

Maybe that'd encourage Russia to give nukes to countries 'We, Aren't so friendly with?

Chain Breaker - YouTube, Group, Brothers of Metal.

I like the way she says Fenrir, at 3:04

Es geht ein dunkle Wolk herein [German folk song][+English translation] - YouTube, I'm unsure of origins, though the video description mentions something.

HEIDEVOLK - A Wolf In My Heart (Official Video) | Napalm Records - YouTube, Group, Heidevolk.

Has a subdued metal feel I suppose.

Well, first song I ever heard by Shireen was UNMARKED, but it's a NSFW video, has nudity.

Shireen - SO HUMAN OF YOU [official music video] - YouTube, is pretty good as well though, I think.

I thought about mentioning Shireen, but I think that's classified as Witchpop.

Well, in this case the bully is taking someone else's lunch.

'Maybe he want's yours as well, if he is not held accountable early on.

Maybe he 'just wants the one victim, but to stand by while injustice occurs, feels bad.

Still, I think there's more options than,

Do nothing,

Physically attack bully.

Eh,

WW1, people get too involved, Too much War occurs.

WW2, People avoid getting involved, Too much War occurs.

Government 'is often coercive organization,

Though more than a fair number of Ukrainians seem to prefer 'their government, to Russia's,

And there 'is a lot of business done, due to how much oil Russia supplies, pipes that run through Ukraine, untapped natural resources in Ukraine.

Eh,

Being honest isn't so tied into being a somewhat decent person.

Most everyone lies,

And during war, politics, most everyone cheats, plays the room.

I've been reading a fair bit,

And the Russian propaganda looks 'far more forced than ours,

By forced I mean ridiculous lies and perspectives.

'Is only 19 years about, since invasion of Iraq,

Which as a war, has never made much sense to me.

Citizens don't necessarily all 'want war though,

And even when doing it themselves, even if we were in unjust war right this second,

Lot of people 'still wouldn't like it, think it right, or 'other countries wars.

I have mixed feelings on Ukraine,

I'd 'prefer more of a privateer/mercenary system, where people who believed in a cause,

Were allowed by government to join a country in fighting.

I don't like being pulled into situations against my will.

But I 'also figure, that leadership has 'far better understanding of world situations than me,

Though I still have opinion.

And I 'do trust that our leaders will at the 'least have their 'own interests at heart, ideally ours, and justice too.

But they have intelligence gatherers, statistic people, strategists, so on so forth,

I'm rambling.

I don't know what 'I should want for America anymore,

As time goes by, country feels not what it 'was.

Still,

As and organization, 'probably in it's short/middle term interests,

To encourage cooperation in world, lack of conflict, injustice.

Well, intervention might discourage aggressive actions by countries,

Encourage self rule, democratic states, similar to Western States.

Also sense of duty by some, when they see others in trouble, or acted against unjustly.

Sure 'maybe nukes,

But if countries get aggressive, maybe that leads to nukes too.

Is that sarcasm, as you mean USA 'did possibly destabilize Libya?

I ask because I am hazy on details.

I know well enough of history that countries do covert ops, spies, fund rebels, different regimes, try to manipulate other countries.

But maybe Discipulus_Didicit feels NATO is not the USA,

Or that Cold War is long over,

Or that since I can't access government locked CIA files and such, that there is no evidence.

Or he could feel NATO is purely defensive,

Though I think bah, defense can be offense, and offense defense.