Total posts: 10,910
I tend to agree that if this was done right it could avoid the mob mentality of bashing a person. I also get that the izbo trial was a disaster, but I agree with LM that the trial might not have been handled and organized in the best way, which seems like it could be easily avoided.
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@bsh1
What do you mean by putting them through the ringer, because that doesn't sound so bad. It definitely sounds like a more professional way to talk about someone and consider both sides in a well articulated argumentative format, than what's already being done in other threads publicly. Also the bearing of this seems to have no consequence as you obviously aren't forced to act on whatever the outcome is, seeing as it is a mere experiment. Is there any way to convince you to allow him to hold something like this, or have you already made up your mind that any thread he makes will be instantly deleted regarding the trial?The purpose of a trial is to put the user on trial--ergo, to put their actions and character through the ringer.
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@bsh1
Trials will be deleted and considered call-out threads, resulting in a mod response commensurate with any other call out thread.
That's dis-appointing... :/
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@DebateArt.com
- Game name
- Status (collecting players, finished etc)
- Number of players
These are all perfect
- Description (not mandatory, only if needed)
Yeah, description can be used for roles as long as the description doesn't show publicly in the forum part.
- Host (the player that created the game)
- Phase lengths for days and nights (should those be static, should they be dynamic depending on the number of alive players or something like that?
Phase lengths are usually controlled by the mods, so if that's a feature you can let the host change, that would be perfect!
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@DebateArt.com
Are you talking about just making a new forum dedicated to only mafia, or thinking about implementing features that make mafia a part of the website? I feel like you mean the latter, since creating a new forum wouldn't require knowledge of the game.
Basically the game is an un-informed majority (the town) vs an relatively informed minority (the mafia). There is two factions generally with two separate win conditions. As a town player, your goal is to try and guess who the mafia are based on their in-game behavior and actions. Once you've guessed who a mafia member is, it is your goal to convince the as many players as you can to vote to lynch that player since every player gets a vote. Mafia also have a vote too, so you have to have a convincing argument. When the majority of living players have voted a single person and hit a certain lynch number, that person is killed and removed from the game. These lynches occur in what is called the day phase. The night phase follows this, in where there is no public communication. Generally the minority group (mafia) will be the only ones allowed to talk in a private messaging system to each other. Each night phase they have to decide amongst themselves which town member to kill. As mafia you are trying to slowly kill each town member and lead mis-lynches by lying and misleading the town into lynching themselves instead of you and your team. In addition to this, most living players will usually be granted a role or ability that they can use in the night phase to assist them in the game. Both town and mafia are commonly given roles.
That is a brief overview of what mafia is. But to answer your question of how to implement it, I would say a forum works just fine. The only thing that makes it difficult on this website is the lack of a group messaging system, seeing as mafia can't communicate with each other on the site, and we end up having to use third party applications to communicate. If you could implement a chat system, or messaging system that allows for more than 1-1 communication, that would be a huge help to the mafia community!
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@DebateArt.com
Gotcha, thanks for the heads up!
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@DebateArt.com
There's probably a big link somewhere that I've missed but can you send me the patreon link? I didn't even know it existed
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@Mharman
Do you approve of Mike?
Yes, 100%. Mike is active, and he cares about his site. That's all I want from a developer. Hell even if he was just active and didn't care about the site and only fulfilled 50% of what I want in a website, that's still 100% more than what we got from the absent Juggle on Debate.org. I consistently get facebook notifications showing that the developer is promoting user debates, almost daily. That may seem like a small thing to an outsider, but as a community member of the website that is huge, and it shows him stepping up for his community. I don't need back to back updates, just to know that we are being heard and that he is doing his best and that's the vibe I get from him.
Do you approve of Bsh1?
Yes. Bsh1 is a great guy, and he does care about people and feelings, that makes him a human. I would rather have an interpersonal mod then some reddit robot that auto bans people. I think effective modding in a community like this needs mods who don't just follow black and white, and use discretion based on context, similar to how Max modded on debate.org. Otherwise a good portion of the active community base could be banned for some reason or another. That said I may not always agree with every single decision he makes (truthfully I haven't been active enough lately to know all the ins and outs and details of his bans). I only saw one situation that I thought he could have handled better, and I never commented or said anything about it because bsh seemed humble and was open to the feedback, rather stamping his foot and defending himself at every corner. So that is awesome, that's what you need in a mod. Max has told me multiple times when he started modding, he made a lot of mistakes, and he was much more strict in the beginning than he was later on. Obviously, Max's modding habits changed quite a bit down the road, and I will safely say I felt the majority of the community were okay with his modding standards (I'll get lynched for saying that, because I know there are a few Max haters around here still, but come at me bro). Bsh is still pretty new to modding here, so I think people shouldn't expect him to be perfect. But I couldn't be happier with another mod, and I think he handles things very professionally. I know I couldn't do better than him, so I wouldn't critique him unless I noticed something pretty severe. From what I knew of him on debate.org, he is a very intelligent guy and generally phrases things very professionally. He has his fun on the site like everyone, but if you were new to debate.org and had talked to him you might have thought he already was a mod by the way he talked. One thing is clear, he cares about the website and the community. On DDO he was always part of groups and organizations that helped further site activity, and benefited the community. I can't think of anyone active here more qualified than bsh to be mod.
Do you approve of Virtuoso?
I don't really know this individual.
Do you approve of Castin?
I don't really know this individual.
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@Vaarka
Ongoing
Bsh1- Star Trek DS9 Mafia- DP2
Sign Ups
Vaarka- Brooklyn Nine-Nine Mafia
In the Hopper
- Buddamoose(Custom Theme: Shadows of Twilight or The Sea Dogs Curse.)
- SupaDudz
- Mharman (Arthropods Mafia)
- breakingamber (Homestuck Mafia)
- Lunatic
On Hold
Virtuoso
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From what I gather we've got a couple mislynches, but fortunately mafia f'ed up. And budda is back so maybe we will get some more activity. Does anyone have a claimslist?
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@ethang5
But I also notice that both of bully's accounts, disgusted and lunatic, are active. Does he have a special arrangement to have multi-accounts?
I have no clue who disgusted even is lol. Why is my name even still on your lips? Still mad at me because I dis-agreed with you about airmax being a bad moderator months ago? lol.
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Hey guys sorry for my inactivity. I didnt realize the game even started until sometime in the night phase when I finally checkes the site lol.
I tried skimming dp1 a bit but I have a lot more to do. I'll try to find time to do that at some point but in the mean time if there is any pivotal information from the first day that I missed, please inform me. I don't feel entirely qualified to participate until I am caughf up but I will do my best to respond to any posts directed at me until ove finished reading day phase 1.
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Dead Players
Earth- You are Belle Rayburn, wife to Kevin Rayburn. Your priorities are your new child, and the well being of your husband who may have bit off more than he can chew. You are vanilla townie, and can contribute with your voice and your vote. You win with the town. (Killed NP1)
Drafterman- You are Roy Gilbert, a successful business man who tarries in the illegal. After funding John’s campaign for Sheriff, you became close with Kevin Rayburn, as he is easily manipulated and in a lot of trouble. With money comes resources, and you are able to assist Kevin with removing and hiding the body of Marco Diaz. You are thus the Janitor. You can hide the body of your night kill choice at any time. However only one body can be janitored at a given time. If you choose to janitor another individual, your previous body will become uncovered for the town to see. You win with the mafia. (Lynched DP2)
Vaarka- You are Meg Rayburn, one of the few Rayburn children who hasn’t actually murdered anyone. While you are definitely not what most would call a good person, you aren’t the worst of the crop either. Unless of course you count concealing the murders of a brother and ex-boyfriend for the sake of your brothers, you really are an angel. However, when you move away to start a new life right at the beginning of the Eric O’bannon trial, some do find it pretty suspicious. You are the miller, and will appear guilty upon cop investigations. You win with the town. (Killed NP2)
Living Players
Buddamoose
TheHammer
Danielle
GP
Supa
Rational
4/6 Votes required for a lynch.
Buddamoose is innocent.
Day phase will end on 9/30/18 at 5:30 PM CST barring there is no extension.
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Final Vote Count
Drafterman (5/5) - RM, TheHammer, GP, Supa, Buddamoose
Drafter has been lynched... He was Guilty!
Please submit your night actions before 2PM CST on 9/29/18
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Dead Players
Earth- _____________- Town
Living Players
Buddamoose
TheHammer
Danielle
GP
Drafter
Supa
Rational (looking for replacement)
Vaarka
5/8Votes required for a lynch.
Day phase will end on 9/29/18 at 7PM CST barring there is no extension.
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Official Vote Count
Drafterman (2/5) - Supadudz, Rational
TheHammer (3/5) - Buddamoose, Drafterman, Vaarka
Supadudz (1/5) - TheHammer
The Day Phase has ended in a no lynch. Please submit your night actions if you haven't already. NP ends 9/26/18 2PM CST
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And you drown before the water lets you in...
Drafterman (1/5) - Supadudz
TheHammer (2/5) - Buddamoose, Drafterman
Supadudz (1/5) - TheHammer
Earth (1/5) - Rational
(thanks budda for helping with this)
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Living Players
Buddamoose
TheHammer
Earth
Danielle
GP
Drafter
Supa
Rational
Vaarka
5/9 Votes required for a lynch.
We will do standard 3 day Day Phases for now. Given the game took a while to start and not all players have re-confirmed, their may be some inactivity which may call for an extension later on, but we will review player activity at that point and evaluate. Standard mafia rules apply, most people in this game I believe should be familiar with them. There are no flavors or third party roles in this game, your role works exactly how it says it does.
Good luck everyone, and have fun!
Day phase will end on 9/24/18 at 2PM Central time barring there is no extension.
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If I am missing anyone from this list, let me know!
1. Buddamoose
2. TheHammer
3. Earth
4. Danielle
5. GP
6. Drafter
7. Supa
8. Rational
9. Vaarka
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I think all the original players need to confirm they are still in
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@ethang5
For example, I don't think he would have banned Z, Willows, Lunatic or hari the way Mike did. Basically, we have AirMax in all but every thing but the name. And that is the first step to sharing DDO's history.
What? Mike never banned me? What did I do that was ban worthy other than dis-agree with you about max being a bad moderator? lol
Anyways, I am excited bsh1 will be the new mod, he was president over on DDO for a while, and did a fantastic job in my opinion. I have no doubt he will continue excellency in a moderator position.
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@Vaarka
Sure man. I'll be back from vacation on Tuesday hopefully the players are still ready to go
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@RationalMadman
Ah I didnt see you on the list I just copy pasted the previous one. I'll try to send rule PMs soon.
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@RationalMadman
I dont think so, unless the majority have a problem with you playing
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1. Buddamoose
2. TheHammer
3. Earth
4. Danielle
5. GP
6. Drafter
7. Supa
8. XLAV
9.
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I'll probably have to start this with 7. Will be a quick game but hopefully will get the mafia ball rolling again
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Welcome back Supa! Long time no see. Congrats on visiting Greece and doing well in school! - TUF
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@RationalMadman
The show does start off pretty slow, I definitely understand that critique. The first half of the first season is slow character build up, and it can be tough to get into. If you ever do find the interest to finish the show however, I can promise you it gets pretty freaking crazy. The second and third season is almost the exact opposite of the first, and there is crazy stuff happening in almost every episode. It's one of those shows that doesn't grab your attention right from the get go but it definitely is pretty nuts once you get passed the first few episodes.
I also might be biased towards the show because I lived in Islamorada, and know a lot of the locals in the show as well as recognize the scene in just about every shot lol.
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Do you think just anyone has access to a moderator account?You said he had resigned. He had not. The closed accounts are not "connected to him". He just has admin rights to open those accounts. He has
The whole stem of your complaints is that he isn't doing enough. He obviously still has admin abilities, but doesn't use them as frequently as he once did because the site was left to hell by the developers. He doesn't owe the site the activity you think he does, this was always a hobby for him. Not a paid position. Your claim that people left because of the moderator is completely untrue. Maybe it's the reason you left, but if it is, it's a piss poor reason. More likely you came here because the spam, and are using Max as a scapegoat to blame your problems on. That's fine, your poorly formed and badly substantiated opinion of him is shadowed by the horde of other members who respected Max for everything he did for the site over the years.
I spoke to Airmax today. The childish taunts of being afraid or having an agenda are below you.
Did you ask him if I knew him? These aren't taunts, you are literally calling me a liar and saying I don't know him.
Re-activating closed accounts is an admin function.
Duh, what's your point?
No site would allow someone who " owes them nothing" to have access to their admin functions.
Juggle did. They didn't want to do the work so they were lucky Max enough was kind enough to do it for them for free for all these years. Max owes nothing to us, or them, and can stop moderating at anytime he pleases.
Max is not evil or a douchebag. He just did not moderate very well.
And you continuously fail to make a good case for this, so you are done I think. If you decide you actually want to back this up, feel free to challenge me to debate on this, we can go over all the evidence and let the voters decide.
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@ethang5
Correct, he actually had to email Juggle to unban him, since they mistakenly closed hundreds of legitimate accounts. Airmax now has to unban all the non spam accounts as they are linked to him. Your argument is so weak here buddy. You are trying to say that because Max occasionally has use use his admin abilities from time to time to stop damage control that he has some obligation to stay on the site and actively admin. He doesn't. Especially at the extent that the website is no longer enjoyable to him. He owes the site nothing.So he didn't know he would return as mod and be reinstating accounts until an hour ago? You said he had resigned.
I'm doing nothing of the sort. I told you he was still Mod yesterday and you claimed to know him and that he had resigned. That was a lie.
I do know him, it is not a lie. Why don't you join a hangout with us later and Max can verbally prove it? I already offered that once, which you refused, because we both know that your are manipulative and trying to spin your little fairytale that Max is an evil douche bag because you will not be proved wrong, even though you consistently fair to substantiate your opinion.
No, signing on as AirMax, site moderator, asking for and reactivating closed accounts doesn't mean he is back to actively moderating. Thanks Lunatic. In think I can close this one.
Exactly. Occasionally using mod abilities does not mean he owes the site anything. Your attempt at sarcasm is actually a point against you but you fail to see it lol.
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@ethang5
That was an HOUR ago, not yesterday. Juggle just barely unbanned all the accounts they banned yesterday. You trying to cite this to back up a point you made yesterday is hilarious though lol. Regardless, this post doesn't mean he is back to actively moderating.http://www.debate.org/forums/debate.org/topic/4135066/Perhaps he forgot to tell you as you guys played WoW together yesterday.
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@ethang5
How do you know this? But anyway, he accepted the post, so whining about the lack of pay is dishonest.
Hmm, thought you were informed on DDO history so much more than I was lol. The DDO presidency used to come with mod abilties, Max was elected as president and earned his mod abilities that way, back when Juggle was still active. Shortly after the next election cycle they stopped all activity. The only user elected mod before him was innomen. Both were regular site members before ever having mod powers, and were given these abilities by Juggle after volunteering and being elected president.
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@ethang5
My opinion is informed, as indicated by the seat site you currently can't access.
Mine is informed as well, I've been on the site for a lot longer than you have and have known airmax a lot longer than you have. Bringing up "opinions" is pretty irrelevant. You have a point, back it up and prove you are informed lol.
How do you know? He posted TODAY with his mod Airmax account.
No he didn't, his account was closed lol. That's impossible. Regardless even if he was posting, that means nothing for his interest in continuing to moderate.
Nonsense. He has an obligation as long as he accepts the position of mod.
So, what if he no longer accepts his position of mod? Because that's basically already happened lol. Are you saying someone can't quit their job at will?
Airmax is still mod of DDO.
Technically not anymore, his account was banned en masse with all the others, mine included. Regardless, just because he still has mod powers, doesn't mean he is forced to use them lol.
I know. Which is why he should have resigned and let someone who wanted to work, work.
He has resigned, lol. He doesn't have the ability to give mod powers to anyone, that is Juggle. Again you are mid-directing all the blame on him, when Juggle are the ones who could do something to solve your problems.
Dude! I'm talking about starting from 2 years ago.
Anything you are talking about, you are refusing to cite, and you are also not wanting to show private messages. No one knows what you are talking about. For all we know you were completely in the wrong about the whole thing. However if it was that long ago, and this is the core reason for your dislike for airmax, you are clearly showing your weakness here. This is some old vendetta for you since Max didn't take your side lol.
Completely untrue. I was not the only person who brought it up to him. The site was working. He called a filthy racist "problematic" and did absolutely nothing. Not even a "cut it out". No one asked him to ban anyone.
Without you citing anything, this is pretty meaningless. We have one clearly biased side of the story, and no evidence to support your claims.
I doubt you've known him longer, but it matters not. He was a poor mod, and our present situation is the culmination of his ennui and incompetence.
Lol I literally play games with him almost daily, but sure, I don't know him as well as you ;-)
Both of them share fault. Max was the head mod. My blame on him is objective, correct, and supported by the sad state of affairs.
If you think you've substantiated anything to back up your claims, you have a pretty bad understanding of what is "objective" and "correct".
If he was permabanned, how was he on the site yesterday? Several people on the site now make RM seem like a priest. You have no clue what you're talking about.
RationalMadman's newest account has been made post Max caring about moderating. I know exactly what I am talking about, you are just too stubborn to admit your acting like a rebellious ideologue.
Trolls have run wild for more than 2 years. And no one forced him to take the job. He was a terribly poor mod.
Trolling isn't a basis for banning. If you want a completely serious website, you probably won't find it here. There will be trolls here too.
If the troll and spam eaten site doesn't convince you, nothing will.
Both of these have nothing to do with whether max was a good mod or not.
The dead site is my substantiation. This thread full of ragged DDO refugees is my substantiation.
Lol so you honestly think people left DDO because of how max moderates, or are you confusing two different topics? You are all over the place mate.
I highly doubt this. No one had contact with him for ages, not even juggle.
Now you are just trolling lol. There is no way you honestly believe this. Max frequently visits hangouts to speak to his friends. Hell Mr. conspiracy theorist, I can probably get him to get in a hangout with you and we can all discuss this and you can throw your accusations about his modding to his (virtual) face.
OK. And I think you are one of those people too easily influenced by a little power. A hanger on.But we are allowed to disagree. I just think the current condition of DDO supports my opinion much better than yours.
The current state of DDO has literally nothing to do with your claim of Max being a bad mod. Hey though, hit me up if you wanna take me up on that google hangout idea. I think it would be pretty interesting to hear you say some of this stuff to Max and actually reference some stuff instead of making broad, unsubstantiated claims.
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Most of your post is just your opinion, which is fine, but I have the tangible record of DDO to support my point.
Of course it's just my opinion, responding to your opinion. That's what debate is. xD
Take my challenge. DDO is still open. Go there and tell me if you think hari or bully were not ban-able behavior. If you would allow such behavior here, then we are lucky you aren't mod.
Max isn't an active mod anymore, he has no real obligation to the website, especially after the influx of spam. Max was a volunteer mod and was never paid for his job, though he's put more collective work into the site than the developers by a long shot. Point is, he is no longer invested as much in what happens anymore because the site is broken and the developers refuse to fix it. Whatever's happened over the last couple months on the site behavior wise, max has taken much less notice or care of. I personally don't know either of those members or the behavior you are referring to, because you haven't posted any links, but it's a lot less likely for something to be done about their behavior now then it was before the influx of spam increased to the point of making the site virtually unuseable. If their behaviors are as toxic as you say, and this was brought up to him when the site was working more functionally, there is a good chance he would have looked into the situation and done something about it. I have known Max presumably a lot longer than you have, and I think other members who know well him would vouch that he would always look objectively into any situation back when the site was working. You are mis-directing a lot of your frustrations to Max when it should be at the failings of the developers of DDO.
Airmax would not have banned rational madman. Even at 10 times as offensive.
This is blatantly untrue. Rationalmadman, if memory serves, was perma-banned back in 2013. He was banned and un-banned multiple times before that as well. Max is no longer invested in the site now, so yeah trolls run rampant, but he did an amazing thankless job for years sheerly out of his own personal interest. He never got a dime for moderating.
We don't need to agree on Airmax. You like him, fine. I don't think he was a good mod. I do not need to justify that to you. And I would not divulge private conversations jus because you ask for them.
I am just saying, if you are going to make a broad statement like Max not being a good mod, and aren't willing to justify it, it's hardly a convincing case. You are here to debate you said, right? In debate is someone generally supposed to substantiate a claim they make for anyone to reasonable buy into their arguments?
I'm glad Mike isn't him. I like this site. If you think Max is so great, go there. The site is still functioning.
This is a non-sequitur, I never argued that Max should be a mod here. Also I don't need him as a mod to enjoy a debating website. I am very good friends with him and talk to him almost daily outside of the website. My point with all of this is that I think you are kind of an "anti-Airmax" ideologue, but again you are mis-directing your anger at him.
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@Danielle
I very much agree with your thoughts on Peterson. I would say I am a fan of Jordan Peterson, and what he stands for. I listen to his podcasts almost daily, but I agree that any Peterson fan should have reservations about overtly agreeing with everything he says and does. I am currently listening to his audio book on 12 rules for life, and while for the most part I like what I am hearing, occasionally I'll run into some ideas of his that make me laugh a bit. Their are a few points I dis-agree with him on, mostly religion (I watched his debate with Matt Dillahunty and think Matt was clearly the winner) as well Monogamy, and same sex parenting issues. However I do like listening to his college lectures, ideas on free speech, and even some of his more relaxed interviews with artists and authors. He also kind of has a soothing voice to listen to, definitely something to tune on while your driving long distances. But ultimately as a clinical psychologist, he undoubtedly is remarkably intelligent on how he interacts with people especially those with alternative beliefs. He occasionally has an angry quip, but for the most part he remains far more calm in a debate and can generally avoid fallatic arguments. He is clearly very socially conscious, so it makes him enjoyable to watch in a debate, even when I don't agree with him, I can respect the points he makes. In the Matt Dillahunty debate, I feel like he didn't really answer the fundamental question's asked, but he did raise a lot of interesting points, and definitely get's you thinking about the idea of consciousness.Jordan Peterson does not have all the answers. He is not always right. He often presumes or speaks on things without full grasp of the subject, and sometimes gets hypocritical. But so what? None of us have all the answers; none of us are always right. We all presume, assume, confuse or misrepresent at different times. We can all be convicted of hypocritical or conflicting values. The important thing is that we we do our best to understand and to explain to and from one another, and that we keep trying to search for truth, justice and meaning in this ever-changing and infinitely complex world. I think overall, Jordan Peterson presents a net positive insofar as promoting these things, at least at face value. It's up to us to carry out these ideals, and collectively rise above Peterson's personal wrongs to find righteousness. What do you think? Are you a fan of Jordan Peterson? Why or why not? Post your most loved/hated Jordan Peterson quips here.
Peterson is a very intelligent individual, but you are correct, he does have a way of dodging questions by using verbose that can draw the question around in circles without actually addressing it, and I do notice the occasional hypocritical remark.
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