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Before I go back to do more research on Lunatic's past games, I want to say that I did finally get an answer from Lunatic: If a townie with a scum killing ability activated by lynching get's lynched during MYLO, town can still survive to see another MYLO/LYLO if the lynched townie's ability hits mafia.
So how about we just lynch Mikal and have him shoot Sui?
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Wal-mart Mafia being the only game of his so far I can look at.
And Dragonball Z Mafia.
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I will not be using Lunatic's first game, The Thing Mafia for analysis, given there was only one mafioso at the start of the game who was a recruiter. Mechanics wise, it is not similar at all to this game, and a comparison using this game may do more harm to my research than good.
Dragonball Z Mafia also has a differing mechanic but it really only added on top what is otherwise normal mafia game, so it will be used. The mechanic in question is a "Powel Level" mechanic that allows players to unlock their abilities, but the design-wise the roles stay the same as a normal game. Unlike The Thing Mafia, which was designed with town's roles being turned against them in mind, this game was designed with clear cut town and mafia roles.
Will not be including Video Game Mafia due the game being two very large mafia teams being in the game, along with a few survivors. There is no town in this game, so it was designed to be more of a head-to-head between mafia factions instead of the typical informed minority vs. uninformed majority we see in this game.
Will not be including Midnighters Mafia either, due to their being one scum, and everyone else survivors or town (50/50 split). Not comparable.
And I will have to pause there, with Wal-mart Mafia being the only game of his so far I can look at. I will be able to check more games for similarity to this game later.
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First, though, let's gather what we're looking at for this game, according to what has been claimed and what has been proven:
Mikal - Hunter
Mharman - Emissary
ComputerNerd- Cop
Pie- Hated
Whiteflame - Magistrate
Sui - Watcher
Greyparrot - Survivor
Supa - Gramps
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@ILikePie5
He looked at every game Lunatic ever modded
*Starting with Overwatch Mafia and continuing onward
However, I can look at his other games before that, too.
I think I will.
I’ll let everyone know if any pattern shows up.
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So, Pie or Supa, both have compelling arguments and counter arguments for why they could be scum. I just don't think both are.
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Research is done. Can confirm Supa's claim of Lunatic using mafia roles as town makes no sense.
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@whiteflame
@Mikal
Thoughts on the idea of a scripted CC by Supa to end the game, but only backing off after thinking it was too risky midway through the plan, and then using a fake mod mistake as a cover?
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@ILikePie5
Still looking to verify that. As for the recent interaction between Supa and ComputerNerd, I do think Sui is smart enough to script it, but only for Supa. You can't have ComputerNerd fake cop AND a fake CC/withdraw whatever from Supa.
But Supa did mention a mistake from Lunatic and I have seen Lunatic make one mistake modding already, so I still think the interaction could be real as well, unless mafia thought to fake a mod mistake too. Which is also possible, since a mistake on a vote count is easier to make than a mistake on a PM.
If Lunatic did make a PM mistake, I want to say I am not trying to flame Lunatic here; if anything I'm grateful he put on this game. I've made worse modding mistakes, that's for sure.
My question is, if it's Sui and Supa, who is third? I don't think Whiteflame, but that leaves you and Mikal on the table to be the third. I would go for Mikal in this case, but I would lynch Supa first.
Still most scenarios in my head lead to you or Mikal, in which I pretty much always pick you.
So I am changing my ideal lynch to you or Supa. Lynching Supa is a good way to test you, but we're in MYLO. We can't lynch someone just to test something anymore. We have to hit scum.
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@ILikePie5
You know, something did come up when researching Lunatic's old games. Stranger Things Mafia, from four years ago. This game DOES look very similar the current setup we have here, with some changes of course. So a lawyer could be possible IF the characters are based on functionality in the show and not on occupation.
Lunatic did say he threw this game together, so why not mix up an old game?
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@ILikePie5
I thought I mentioned it when we were on The Godfather track. A Lawyer could been on Supa making him Inno. It also works with your JOAT theory.
ohhh true. But that would require mafia to know he was targeting Supa. Plus I now believe Supa is town based on his interaction with ComputerNerd (to be confirmed for me if I do find examples of Lunatic role switching in his games), so while I think godfather is possible, it isn't Supa's role. Lawyer COULD belong to a teammate of Supa's if he was mafia, but there is a problem with this as well. The most prominent lawyer character has already been revealed to be Airmax, and Airmax/Helen was a babysitter.
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Your conversation with Whiteflame is interesting, but I take issue with this claim:
You’d also have to consider that I’d be brain dead from your POV to redirect WF to my own scum partner rather to another known townie or even WF himself.
A redirect here has all of the benefits of the confusion it has caused so far, along with protecting a valuable mafia power role. It's obvious scum would want to protect their power roles, but the confusion is something I recall you said yourself mafia wants in Post #151.
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@ILikePie5
After creating sufficient confusion, which is what mafia seek to do.
Yeah but that confusion could lead to town going for some reversal anti-meta whatever play and lynching Supa. He'd be stupid to try it.
Still ignores the Lawyer angle.
I must have missed where you posted this. What is the lawyer angle?
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@ILikePie5
Still, I am combing through the archives to verify Supa's claims of Lunatic role swapping. Earlier I backed Supa up saying Lunatic did it in Overwatch Mafia, but a voter stealer/vote buyer/politician (which he gave to a town Soldier 76) isn't technically town or mafia, I just assumed it was normally mafia there.
On a side note, this is Lunatic using Whiteflame's current role as a town role, so I think Whiteflame truly is not lying about his role.
Which leads me to a very crazy-sounding claim: Unless there is major WIFOM coordination by Pie and Mikal, Greyparrot is lying and has made the ballsiest fake claim in history (only Tvellalot's town bus driver claim can challenge it, but the difference is that Tvellalot was under pressure when he made his claim).
Why yes, I do research near-ancient mafia games if I feel like it.
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@ILikePie5
Post #136 is a response to Post #126. Forgot to tag you in it.
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@whiteflame
And that's assuming Mikal picks the right guy to kill, too.
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@whiteflame
I do too. If Lunatic counts a mislynch on Mikal as goin from 4-3-1 to 3-3-1 (assuming MIkal is town) and ends the game before it becomes 3-2-1 (in favor of town), then town loses and the strategy fails.
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@whiteflame
But either way, a Sui lynch can't happen and a lynch on you or Greyparrot (because I'm legit starting to wonder if he made the ballsiest fake claim ever)v is too risky for town atm. So a lynch between Mikal and Pie is necessary for me. I think Pie is scummier than Mikal, do you agree?
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Again there is merit to Lunatic flipping around roles’ alignments. He did it in Overwatch Mafia too, and that was before Supa and I even started playing mafia.
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Still, Supa’s behavior in this situation makes me think he is there is merit to Lunatic giving him a town aligned mafia role, and Supa did just give examples of Lunatic flipping roles’ alignments around in previous games.
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Oh good lord I am stupid. I was looking at where it says “blank” under alignment I. The box at the top right on the page and didn’t even notice what it said right at the top of the paragraph, my bad.
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Supa has no reason to lie. If he were scum he could CC this and some heightened suspicion on ComputerNerd could result in him pushing ComputerNerd to get the game ending mislynch but he WITHDREW HIS CC. And if Supa is telling the truth here, I conclude he is most likely telling the truth about being Gramps and Supa is very likely town based on behavior along with this new information. And ComputerNerd would be telling the truth too since he would have a motive to say Supa is guilty. And I don’t see them being in a scum team together either; Supa CC’d ComputerNerd and he would have no reason to bus his teammate if he were mafia unless he intended to pull it back and fake a mistake from Lunatic, but I don’t think that’s the case.
So I think both are town. But that would leave Pie and Mikal on a scum team together with Sui, which I don’t think is possible either. Pie just said we could lynch Mikal and have Mikal shoot someone. Pie has no reason to bus Mikal. I know I’m town and I think ComputerNerd being town + my claim of Russ and theme analysis should confirm me. Plus, I’d have no reason to try make ComputerNerd be more active if I were scum; upon getting the Emissary knowledge I would’ve told my scum teammates to kill him in the night if I were scum. For me to be scum, I would have to have been planning everything, including the Emissary claim and pressuring of ComputerNerd for activity that would back up the Emissary claim before he claimed cop. Do you really think the guy who forgot how a ninja worked would be capable of that? You could say I was planning to forget how ninja worked, but I am not capable of that. I even said before the game started in sign-ups that I was not good at the game.
But that only leaves two mafia, Sui and Mikal or Pie. So who’s fake claiming? Whiteflame? Greyparrot? Neither are a great answer, so if I’m wrong on a town read let me know and why.
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@Vader
I believe that honestly. I had to point out a mistaken vote count to Lunatic earlier. So I guess ComputerNerd did visit Supa.
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You know, MafiaUniverse does say Gramps has no specific alignment, so whoever said it was exclusively mafia was wrong. I should’ve fact checked it earlier?
But this is no guarantee. Gramps can be scum or town, and if Supa is scum, he can CC ComputerNerd to make him our lynch. If Supa is town, ComputerNerd is definitely scum.
This does make me consider the idea: What if ComputerNerd was told to noob slip and claim cop? Seems very risky from mafia, so not very likely, especially since the slip happened early in the game. But still it can be considered.
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@ILikePie5
I thought of that too, but I am confirming it with Lunatic right now that the game won’t end. Waiting for a response.
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I just don’t see how Charles Wilkes isn’t a magistrate. There’s no way he is JOAT, so the question will be scum or town magistrate. I think town based on Whiteflame’s behavior.
So JOAT must be someone else.
Or ComputerNerd really is scum. But behavior and game theory tells me he is town.
Mikal and Pie. I am still leaning on Pie.
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Mafia JOAT? Used something else in the night instead?
Maybe like a redirect?!
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@ILikePie5
@Mikal
Ugh I think it’s between Pie and Mikal for me this DP. Leaning on Pie.
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@ILikePie5
Upon seeing the results that’s completely fair
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@ILikePie5
Like seriously how do you not vote Supa here?
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@ILikePie5
Then unless Grey isn’t TP or something I think you’re the last one, not Mikal. Because as of now, I strongly believe Whiteflame wasn’t lying.
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Again, to reiterate and to fix a typo:
Why would Whiteflame make such a risky WIFOM that implicates him if town randomly decides it does, if he were really mafia?
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@ILikePie5
I still think it’s WIFOM from Whiteflame.
I disagree. He doesn't know what we'll choose to do so why would he even risk calling for a vote block on Sui if he were mafia, knowing it can implicate him if town randomly decides to. Not all WIFOM plays are good ones, and I respect Waterflame's experience in this game to the level where I think he would not try such a risky WIFOM.
Either way, can you agree that Supa is scummy?
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I want to see ComputerNerd's result first. Even if he was likely roleblocked again, it doesn't hurt to check. I want to give him time as well.
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@Mikal
I agree to go for Supa for the Gramps claim (among other reasons, pushing for Whiteflame a little too hard would be one), but if I'm looking toward a mastermind, it could be you or Pie. I'm going with Pie for now since he also pushing really hard on Whiteflame, and I think you've pointed out way too much solid logic for me to give you any other read than town atm.
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@Mikal
not counting parrot because I dont know what to do with him or if hes actually joint or tp
I think he is TP. If he hit scum out of a miracle and he isn't killed for helping town do it, I may be willing to reconsider my viewpoint.
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@Mikal
So for me, two out of Pie, Supa, and you are scum.
Unless whiteflame really is scum then it's just one out of you three.
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@Mikal
I don't see why wf would target sui. The second max flipped, sui was confirmed scum. Why would mafia protect him, it basically just ties himself to him. I don't see the play in this with mafia
True. I thinking lynching Whiteflame here is too risky, and we can't lynch Sui here. Grey is TP; I just can't see a way he's not. We have to choose a lynch from one of us five. I know I'm town, and I firmly believe ComputerNerd is town. So for me, two out of Pie, Supa, and you are scum.
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@ILikePie5
That could be a slip of the tongue. I was thinking redirector as well, possibly a mafia JOAT, given how many potential scum abilities we've seen
POTENTIAL scum abilities, not confirmed ones.
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Whiteflame being manipulated to look like Sui's scum partner could be the real WIFOM from the scum team.
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We can't vote Sui, so we have to vote someone else. I think Sui is scum, but we can't vote him. We need this DP to think. Don't waste your vote. Don't use it yet.
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@ILikePie5
That could be a slip of the tongue. I was thinking redirector as well, possibly a mafia JOAT, given how many potential scum abilities we've seen.
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@Vader
NO WAIT. We have to learn from our mistakes. We didn't give Earth enough time. We didn't give Airmax enough time. Let's give Whiteflame some time.
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I was literally dumb enough to forget how ninja worked. I think the idea of me failing to clarify my reasoning for thinking there was a godfather is well within reason.
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