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Holy shit I think my read from yesterday was wrong
Whiteflame
So his claim sucks. I agree that he’s bad at fake claiming, but the reason is because he claims something specifically designed to keep him alive. Either something safe that wouldn’t raise eyebrows (Strengthener, Ace Attorney Mafia- obv we sus strengthener a lot now, but it was safe at the time), or it was something that was designed to disincentivize lynching him (suicide bomb - Bo Burnham Mafia). Meanwhile, his claim here lacks that trait.
Additionally, I don’t hate the justification, and bad justifications are usually a feature of his fake claims (other aforementioned games, plus Diary Mafia iirc).
It is for this reason that the claim is a departure from his past scum games. I had considered the idea of a slapdash claim, with the idea of an added JOAT to “roll for deception” under fast pressure from Mikal, but honestly, if he were to send up a prayer, he has no reason not to just leave his claim at commuter, which would be what Whiteflame would normally do as scum anyway.
Also, his night actions seem consistent with his role (roleblocker is objectively the best tool in his kit), and he did hint that one of his roles was the one he’d specifically use. The decision to say he has at least one interference role, but not reveal the other was a clever way of letting town know his role has something normally scum, while holding his cards.
Also I knew there was room for a commuter in the setup, it just felt weird because there’s normally only one type of those roles per game. But price how there’s no (claimed, anyway) protective roles- now hider + commuter makes more sense.
And the piece de resistance (which inspired this whole turnaround for me):
post 181 of DP1:
Car issue’s largely resolved. Going to eat something and then catch up again.
Seems innocuous, right? But it’s worth noting that at the time, That2 had been CC’d. You’d think since that2 made such a mistake, she’d be apologizing up and down the scum PM, and Whiteflame would’ve seen it. Instead, the first chance he gets to check in, he just says he’s going to catch up more later. I’m thinking if he were scum, he would make note of the CC and vote that2 before going to lunch, not after he comes back from it.
Again it might be too late, but if he flips town I know where I went wrong. And if he flips scum he was just a shitter this game, no offense. I am partially basing my read off of him not being terrible this game.
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Shit. I think last nights scumread of Whiteflame was horribly wrong
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Banana
Banana is town. The decision to leak PM info early was standard for her town play. F-16 was an old user on DDO and so the PM info can’t be faked if she’s that2’s teammate.
I did neglect the possibility of it just being a part of the PM but with another role, but considering that Banana has been willing to test her role, it can’t be a fake claim. If she were claiming her real role as scum she would’ve voted Whiteflame a lot sooner
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@whiteflame
@iamanabanana
Post 62 should be the hammer if all is normal here
Both of you unvote just in case
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Alr I finished my deep dive.
I’m down to go for Whiteflame because I think he is the scummiest. If he does flip town my sus will be on Lunatic over Moozer. Some interesting discrepancies in his play that I don’t think anyone else has seen. He has a few townie things to counter, but not enough. Small sample size on Moozer’s posts unfortunately. Some good some bad there too but with the bad I kinda think he’s just being weird again.
Will expand on this in the morning.
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@Bullish
Does a journalist get results from a cop the same night a cop dies?
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Whiteflame/Lunatic/Moozer... my original pool from the end of the DP1. lol. Excuse me while I go on a deep dive.
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Banana being ready to verify her role tells me she's not fakeclaiming. She's town.
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Admittedly double voter being a fake claim is possible, although it looks unlikely. Banana is not town confirmed, although I still like her behavior.
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@Moozer325
Depends on what you thought he was in that scenario.
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@Moozer325
In the situation where I'm scum and the redirector, it frankly makes no sense for me to do what I did. I would have known Pie was a cop, and statically it's more likely from my POV that he picks a town member than me. My best course of action would be to redirect him to me, and get an easy mislynch, but that didn't happen. I somehow knew that he would cop me, so I used a whole action working on the assumption that he was going to cop me, and I redirected him to someone I knew was town. It doesn't really make sense.
How would you have known Pie was a cop come NP1?
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@Moozer325
Not sure yet. I was supposed to do some analysis last DP, but I decided to do other things with my day (older sister is in town). Allow me to finally get to it.
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Banana is the only one I am 100% sure is town now.
The other three are open, although Whiteflame is still my most likely pick.
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@Moozer325
But is it likely? I know it's on the list but do we have any reason to specifically believe it exists?
Not atm that I can think of, but the potential is worth thinking about.
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Thinking about it, a potential redirector also means we can't just shrug our shoulders and say Moozer is town confirmed either.
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@Moozer325
Lunatic and I aren't town confirmed anymore. Redirector is possible.
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Wait Banana is town.
She could've voted Whiteflame and didn't, if she were scum.
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@Moozer325
Dude I just said we should take our time.
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@Lunatic
Ah redirector. You're right. Neither of us are confirmed then.
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@Moozer325
the thing that gives me pause is how ready he is to self lynch. I want to take our time this DP. This game has been quick.
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DO NOT PLACE ANY VOTES
If Banana is, for whatever godforsaken reason, scum and double voter, she wins the game with a single misvote.
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@Moozer325
Whiteflame used his RB on me DP1. If he's telling the truth, I could not have committed the NK. If not he's scum anyway.
Although I just noticed Lunatic has the same thing goin for him... if it can only be Whiteflame though, it's weird he's ready to give himself up.
Wondering if Banana is back on the table.
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Holy shit. Yall still don't understand that I'm town confirmed?
It's either Lunatic or Whiteflame here. Literally just lynch both.
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I’ll fully reevaluate Whiteflame/Lunatic/Wylted in a couple hours.
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Out of Wylted/Whiteflame/Lunatic/Banana, Banana is the towniest for sure.
I’m down to say she’s not on the table, despite having no town confirmation. Although the idea that scum double voter would be bastard might just be enough to say that she is. Her behavior looks clean.
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@Lunatic
I’ll think more about that later, for now, I will say you have a good point on Banana.
I still believe her claim. If she’s scum it’d have to be with Thst2 as a teammate, at which point they shouldn’t even know about the existence of F-16_Fighting_Falcon. I credited him in the archives thread, but I doubt either of them have read it, let alone noticed his username displayed there.
and finally, doublevoter is a good way to give town a fighting chance, should I hide behind the wrong person
Side note: we have no claimed protectives again
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@Lunatic
I am at least considering what you’re saying.
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Guaranteed town
Mharman
Pie
Moozer
Most likely town
Wylted
Lunatic
Banana
Most likely scum
Whiteflame
Not a ranking btw
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I see a lot of people talking about the utility of lynching Whiteflame… it almost feels like multiple people have secretly concluded he’s town, despite him being widely scumread. Maybe it’s all in prudence, but it’s a little off-putting.
Let’s keep it simple. We either think he’s scum, or we think he’s town. Let that be what determines our lynch; I wouldn’t even bother with talks of utility.
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I’m trying to figure out the purposes of some of these roles in the setup.
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@whiteflame
Alr imma hit the hay
Whiteflame, if you ever feel like self-voting because you’ve been caught, go for it. There’s no shame in losing to Mikal’s pressure out of nowhere.
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@WyIted
Banana’s role can be town or scum according to the list.
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@ILikePie5
No one is gonna lynch you. What are your thoughts on Luna, Wylted, and Banana? Those are the 3 main suspects if WF flips town
Really tough decision. I’ll need to think on that. Gun to head, my gut says Wylted, then Lunatic, then Banana.
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@ILikePie5
Alr night night sleepyhead.
I might go to sleep rn too
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@ILikePie5
I’m not as confident as you are about going between Lunatic/Wylted if Whiteflame somehow flips town.
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@ILikePie5
I know, I just think I’m town confirmed and yall are baked to think otherwise
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Idk how I’m not off the board already.
If Whiteflame is scum, I’m not, so I’m town.
If he’s town, it means he really did send his roleblock to me and I would’ve had no way of committing the NK last night. Since an NK did happen, that makes me town.
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@iamanabanana
Is it common for both of these roles to exist in the same game?
From my experience, no, although it is possible. It's not that there can't be room for both- it's that they're both usually roles mods tack on late in their setup design when they want to add something small.
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
If Whiteflame is town I think that does open the door to a lot of people... I'm not sure who my top sus would be in that case just yet
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@whiteflame
If you wanna save us time and concede that would be great though
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
At any rate, we still have time in the DP, so we don't have to lynch Whiteflame now, although that's probably what we'll be doing at the end of the day phase
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lol i feel like having to deal with Pie's headass here is divine retribution for all the times I've been paranoid about him in past games
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@ILikePie5
Strongman does not bypass roleblocker. Strongman only bypasses roles which protect the target.
so i can't be strongman either. there you go Pie.
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