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I feel like if anyone is in position to maximize the value off of coasting, it's joebob. Even the other people calling out a lack of reads from others aren't pinging joebob.
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@Earth
@JoeBob
@Owen_T
@iamanabanana
Hey, I don't need you to be a tryhard here who writes an essay, but what are your thoughts on some of the other people in this game? I townread you but I think it's worth getting your reads nonetheless.
Same for Owen. Any thoughts on others you haven't talked about yet?
Gonna ping Earth again too. And joebob.
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@Vader
@Savant
I will be fair here and say that I've seen Lunatic's activity get fucked over from a work schedule that changes and fucks with his sleep schedule, to be fair. Still not a good look, but strange inactivity isn't inherently scummy and I'm not gonna make it a major point in a scumread. Minor at most
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@Vader
I still wanna go after Lunatic's claim this DP, and he is among those that disappeared as well.
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@Vader
In a game where Pie and Mharman are controlling the tempo, if it is a situation where it's town vs town, they have no incentive to try and make reads and engage when it looks like they will consume each other
Astute observation. I have been thinking about the consequences of me being wrong on Pie. It would certainly not be a good look for those who disappeared from the thread. Would like to give Austin a pass on it, and I think I will give Barney one for now as well, iirc he made note that his activity would be low early on.
It is worth mentioning that Barney did lowpost all of DP1 last time he was scum, and what was suspicious to me about that was how little he said about the game when he actually did check in. So I'll revoke that pass on Barney if what he can give is fuck all
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@ILikePie5
I’m saying it’s a behavior change. I scumread behaviors changes, until I get information to the contrary. I believe Owen’s claim and his role, which is why I moved him to my town pile.
That's stupid method of reasoning, since not behavior changes are scummy. It really shouldn't have taken a claim from Owen to get you to realize your scumread on him was stupid.
If my name wasn’t Pie, you would be townreading me is what you’re saying. That’s fine, you’re entitled to that opinion. You’re either paranoid that I’m scum when I’m not (which I’ll remind you has happened more than a few times), or you’re scum wanting to get rid of a strong player like me.
Strong player? With the reads on Banana, Owen, and I? LMFAOOOOOO not this game. I'm also not gonna be manipulated by the "you're just paranoid" bullshit. I'm still, despite everything, open-minded to a way you could be town. That's why I'm asking you some of these questions.
The information I reveal is doesn’t concern you. Idrc whether you go away or not, cause I’m not going to go away either from you
If you are town and want to keep your information on someone else, fine. I'm not interested in that anymore, given what Casey has said. But I would like a role and character claim from you at the very least, plus a synopsis of your entry. I don't think I'm able to give you a pass for your shit reads otherwise.
She also knows that justifications are important.
She implied she got the justification.
I don’t believe she got 14 pages. I think it’s hyperbolic. Speaking of pages. Does she mean posts? 14 big posts from Wylted?
And what difference does that make? Remember, I think the big picture is that she a saw a bunch of text and felt she didn't need to pay much attention to it because she got what she needed already.
And then she supposedly knew it was about Israel Hamas but didn’t bother to read it. I don’t buy it. You can scumread me for it all you
Again, this relies on semantics on what counts as reading. It's just pedantry from you at this point. Here's a question: If Banana can be hyperbolic about 14 messages, why can't she be hyperbolic when she says she didn't read it? I think a good faith interpretation of Banana here is that she skimmed some things. and that didn't count as spending the time to read those paragraphs in her eyes.
I had Casey pinged DP1 when everyone townread her.
You also said you've been dead wrong about a lot of things as town. And this is assuming you are town, since I get the sense, that even you do you scumread townies, your worst logic is displayed when you are scum.
Scumplay is more likely to evolve than townplay imo. Just look at Casey last game.
And I think noob town is bound to evolve his game sooner rather than later if the state of his play is basically just "I don't know what to read, you do it for me." Plenty of improvements to be made, I'm not shocked Owen started with the worst part of his noob game. It's kind of a no brainer. If you're a noob who can't read people, try to learn to read... it's only the most important skill a townie can have.
What strawman are you talking about?
Multiple. I pointed them out. You said I was saying scum doesn't blend in with reads. You said I was saying you think your information makes you inherently town. Neither of those were my argument, and I had to explain it you back there.
Idk what you mean. Give me an example/scenario
Let's say you are really town and know something? Do you think mafia knows that same piece of information that you know?
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Banana, Casey, and Owen are my town pile. Despite my sus on Pie, I'm still looking for reasons I could be wrong here. I think there won't be any, but it's worth looking into to stress test my read here.
Even if Pie is town, it's gonna be more of a case where I give him a TI pass rather than believe his reads. Lunatic doesn't have that going for him.
And in all this I still haven't given a hard look at anyone else, unfortunately.
That's where I'm at right now.
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@ILikePie5
Here's a question: Were you informed of other parties knowing what you know?
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@Casey_Risk
Honestly, that's really tough for me to say. I know what sort of information Pie knows, but I don't know how or the extent to which he knows the information, and I doubt he's going to be very forthcoming about any of that until the end of this DP at least.
My thought here is if your role has some power to it, scum would be more likely to know about it. If your role has enough chaos for town, I can see how town would be informed.
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Thinking Casey is town since she's had ample opportunity to go after Pie. If he's really town, you'd think Casey would take the opportunity here.
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@ILikePie5
If I’m wrong on Banana, it has nothing to do with you. I’m reading you independent of Banana.
Interesting take, considering the primary reason for my sus on you is your read on Banana. I wonder what reasons for me being scum you're about to invent, now that no one is buying your read on Banana.
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@ILikePie5
… for giving reads. That’s a new one.So you’re saying scum don’t try to blend it by giving reads?
Nahhh this a devious strawman XD. All to defend the idea that Owen is scum because he's giving reads. You know why scum gives reads to blend in? Because townies give reads. Noobs have to learn to read people eventually. To accuse a noob of "blending in" for such a thing is crazy talk.
Because your “information” could be anything. And even if you have some, it doesn’t inherently make town, based on what Casey just said.Nothing makes me inherently town. I never said my information makes me town, did I?
I didn't say you said you did. I do feel scum Pie would still do it for town cred. You do need to proclaim yourself inherently town for the information to gain town cred, you just need townies to do so.
Town cred is the key, and you could either be informed scum, or faking such information as scum in the information is whatever you want it to be.I knew this information at the beginning of the DP. The information is clear. If you think I’m scum, Wylted gave me the info at the start of the game, and I explicitly chose to say this information out loud this DP. You’re welcome to believe that
Because you want some minmax where scum is gonna screw up? I think it's clear at this point that they aren't gonna.
Tell me, how is scum gonna screw up? If anything you might as well claim some things to get the suspicious off ya, cause I'm not going away.
Your response to my points on Banana were such egregious logic that I was gonna go for it anyway.If ya say so. I still stand by my “logic.”
Go ahead and explain why Banana saying she had a lot of messages, got what she needed, and didn't read the rest is a scumtell, and not something like lazy play from a more casual player. I seem to remember Banana's rant about "tryharding men" from a while ago, don't you? And what about Whiteflame's point about how she's only likely to list the number of messages if she actually had them?
Talking about Bo Burnham, where she pushed for you off of low activity. That was a shitty push. So was the current one on Banana.I’ve pushed people for shitty activity myself. It wasn’t that. It was the aggression that made me scumread Banana. There’s a difference.
My point was that what Banana here is doing is different compared to Bo Burnham. I will say that you are being pretty aggressive in your read toward Banana tho ;)
Anyway, the strawmans are making me scumread you even harder.
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@ILikePie5
So… if you do happen to be wrong on Banana, would you see where I’m coming from here?
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@Casey_Risk
Do you think town or scum should know about it more if they are informed?
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@ILikePie5
Or it’s a scum trying to blend in.
… for giving reads. That’s a new one.
Why would I bullshit? If I don’t reveal the information, then I’m scum. If I wanted to use it to my advantage, I would wait till there was adequate suspicion on me to get it off of me with this, not say it upfront.
Because your “information” could be anything. And even if you have some, it doesn’t inherently make town, based on what Casey just said.
Town cred is the key, and you could either be informed scum, or faking such information as scum in the information is whatever you want it to be.
You were quick to join the wagon after Casey voted for me and not before.
Your response to my points on Banana were such egregious logic that I was gonna go for it anyway.
What are you talking about? Banana hasn’t pushed me at all. She’s been quiet for a while.
Talking about Bo Burnham, where she pushed for you off of low activity. That was a shitty push. So was the current one on Banana.
No, I still think I’m right. I’m just saying Casey’s reason to sus be is NAI coming from me cause I’ve done it both as town and scum.
lol :)
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@Casey_Risk
If you think you have some hard evidence Pie is town, better say so quick. I'm open-minded and no, I DO NOT need to know what the evidence is. aIf you have something, I'd have to conclude you and Pie are scum buddies (which is unlikely, so I'm not gonna) for Pie to remain a scumread of mine.
I'd like to either clear Pie or lynch him. The latter is more likely, but if he's town moving on from him to Lunatic sooner rather than later would be great.
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@Earth
The logic is terrible. Even using semantics about what counts as "reading." I think he's forcing some reads.
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Honestly the fact that Owen is claiming with such little pressure and being this cooperative tells me he's town. Was null, but he and Banana are my town reads.
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@Earth
@Barney
@whiteflame
@JoeBob
@Owen_T
Pie has been on some very terrible pushes. First Banana, now Owen.
Apparently saying you have a long PM, but you got what you needed from it- and trying to get good at reading people, is scummy in his eyes.
Let's get his full claim.
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@ILikePie5
Yes, that is the only reason. Behavior shifts are indicative of scum.
Not in every case. Some noob trying to get good at reads is the mark of someone trying to get gud. It is not suddenly a scumtell.
I got the justification. Then role at the end. And then Wylted clarified that X was my character. I’m
Yeah, alarm bells.
There’s zero utility in me giving up my information right now. I will give it when I see fit. You don’t know how scum might screw up. I do.
Why do you care so much? I’m going to reveal it by the time the DP ends. There’s zero town benefit for me to tell it right now
It's not just what you know. It's your character and your role, with a brief synopsis of your entry. I'm scanning everything for a fake claim or something spun as town, because I think you were bullshitting us with your "info" for town cred.
You will give it when you get to L-1 or you will get lynched. Go ahead and put up your front; it won't work. There isn't much that can save you here- just a fullclaim or someone else giving hard evidence you're town.
Casey’s MO doesn’t feel off. I dislike Mharman more. He’s just buddying Casey and obsessed with what information I might how. And he was trying to play both sides with respect to his read on Owen.
You mean thinking things through, and conceding points where reasonable. And buddying Casey? My willingness to work with her does not mean I automatically have a townread. You can be confident I am keeping tabs on Casey's behavior. Why do you think I ask people questions? It's not just to get help from them.
If that’s the case, why hasn’t he done that for anyone else. As for whether she would do that as scum or not, she’s only played scum once, and I caught her that game DP1. She’s still a noob
Wylted is strange. No offense, but he is unusual, even for this site. I can see him writing a whole ass rant about Israel vs Hamas. And the difference between here and Bo Burnham is that Banana made a shitty push on you that lacked good reasoning back then. Looks like the script has flipped here.
My point is that my “bad logic” has led to mislynches when I’m town too.
Are you second guessing your read on Banana here?
I’m not afraid of OMGUS :)
"Hey guys, I'm being bold! I'm town, see?"
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@Owen_T
Ok. I think I’ll just leave my vote where it is for now and see what happens. I’ll be back after 8
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@Earth
@Barney
@Savant
@JoeBob
Thoughts on the current happenings? Pie and Lunatic? Casey? Others in this game? Me if you want?
Asking cause the four of you have either been inactive today, said little about others, or haven’t seen the current situation yet.
(Earth I don’t need your thoughts on Banana- you’ve given those already. Unless you something more to add, which I doubt).
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I honestly don’t care who we go for first anymore, I think I’m gonna end up pushing both anyway
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@Vader
@Casey_Risk
At this point it’s hard for me to decide who’s scummier. Pie’s semantics were such an egregiously bad argument (plus what I said in post 179) and I haven’t seen how Lunatic responds to my reply yet. The latter is probably the saving grace for me not going for Lunatic instead here.
I guess it is worth asking Casey tho, you have a point there, even if that’s not the point you intended to make.
Casey, do you wanna switch onto Lunatic to give Pie some time for whatever he’s planning or do you wanna stay the course on him?
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@ILikePie5
I did not mean to ping you in the above message.
Anyway, here’s a question: Does your info have information on another player? I may or may not be willing to back off depending on your answer.
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@ILikePie5
Oh and there’s also Joebob Austin and Earth. I almost forgot about them with how little they’ve been posting.
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And Greyparrot. I dont fully buy his claim either. On one hand Crab God with some unknown power sounds like a Wylted move, on the other, Greyparrot got caught off claiming rolecop last game and I wonder if the tactic is to evade such a thing. Gut tells me to believe him, but I’m very cautious about it. I think if he really was looking to avoid last game's problem he might try something else.
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In the meantime, i will be thinking about others. I don’t know how I feel on Casey, Whiteflame, and Barney yet so I’ll read into them.
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
@Casey_Risk
I’d prefer Lunatic over Pie but I’m very suspicious on both so I’m willing to go with it. Honestly why not both?
I know Pie says he’s got info that could trip up scum, but at this point with my concerns on him it’s not worth it. Some parts of his thought process feel natural, but the read on Banana is egregious and some of the points feels forced. Not a fan of the semantics. Plus if he’s town id rather have the his information anyway. If he’s willing to give the info later this DP, I can only conclude if he’s town he’s withholding it for what would be a small min-max on an off-chance scum screws up in some vague way, which I’d be willing to give up.
VTL Pie
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@ILikePie5
I disagree with that. She’s well aware that justification matters.
Btw with the way my PM is structured, the justification was given before Wylted’s tangent, and think it’s a given that Banana’s PM followed this structure.
If yours isnt structured in such a way, that would be ringing alarm bells for me.
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all in all, I’d just need more evidence from other behaviors of Owen before I conclude he’s buddying Banana here.
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I think when a noob learns to play mafia, their gameplay goes through stages of development. Stage 1 is “I don’t know how to read people, someone help” and the next stage is where they give reads that can sometimes be or hasty or worse faulty because they don’t consider enough angles.
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@ILikePie5
Why would it be punishment? Better question is: how do you know it’s punishment? Behavior won us the game last game. Everyone townread Casey at the beginning.
I wouldn’t say I know it’s a punishment for sure, but if he’s town and we sus him off that, we essentially just sussed him for trying to improve at reading others. And that is an idea I’m not too keen on. Point is, I would want to see more that’s off about him before I have any sus on him. Yeah behavior analysis wins games, but not every abnormal behavior (compared to previous games) is scummy.
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@ILikePie5
I think his point about Banana is logical because I also thought about it, but I also think he was quick and didn’t wait for more info to give a read.
I would say I’m null. I think being quick would make him look a little scummy, but that gets nullified by the fact the point he made is completely logical.
I say the defense of Banana is good because I agree with it.
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@ILikePie5
This is just semantics on what counts as “reading.” Skimming might technically be reading, but are you really reading it if all you did was skim?
My point here is that you might not be operating with the same definition she is. I think the big picture is that she saw a bunch of paragraphs, and didn’t think it was worth the effort.
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@ILikePie5
Him giving reads right away is kinda odd. I don’t think he’s ever done that before. I distinctly remember me needing to tell him to give reads cause he “town read” everyonez
I don’t like the idea of punishing him for trying to get good at the game.
I will admit however, that his reads have crossed my mind. Ya know how I find it weird how people believed some claims a little to quick? I felt Owen was a little quick as well. The defense of Banana is good and all, but even I had a slight hesitation.
The thing is, the point Owen did raise about Banana was a point I had been thinking about at the time. Until Banana mentioned her PM contained a tangent about Israel vs Hamas, the debate in my mind was about whether or not Banana felt the need to overshare for town cred (banking on a defense like Owen’s) or if it was just simply mentioning it as a complaint about the long PM. I also wondered if she was looking for other people with long PMs while operating on some flawed theory.
All this to say: Until she mentioned Israel-Hamas, I was cautious about the claim as well, whereas Owen believed it from the get go.
the thing is, what Owen said is precisely one of the points in my mind in that debate and I can see Owen’s thought process here. I wouldn’t surprised if scum split themselves on a sus, but I don’t think Owen’s take, albeit a little quick, was that egregious. There might be a little something there, but Owen’s reasoning is not the least logical thing I’ve seen this DP
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To put it simply, I don’t think Banana is the tryhard gamer type like we are.
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