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@ILikePie5
If I’m wrong on Banana, it has nothing to do with you. I’m reading you independent of Banana.
Interesting take, considering the primary reason for my sus on you is your read on Banana. I wonder what reasons for me being scum you're about to invent, now that no one is buying your read on Banana.
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@ILikePie5
… for giving reads. That’s a new one.So you’re saying scum don’t try to blend it by giving reads?
Nahhh this a devious strawman XD. All to defend the idea that Owen is scum because he's giving reads. You know why scum gives reads to blend in? Because townies give reads. Noobs have to learn to read people eventually. To accuse a noob of "blending in" for such a thing is crazy talk.
Because your “information” could be anything. And even if you have some, it doesn’t inherently make town, based on what Casey just said.Nothing makes me inherently town. I never said my information makes me town, did I?
I didn't say you said you did. I do feel scum Pie would still do it for town cred. You do need to proclaim yourself inherently town for the information to gain town cred, you just need townies to do so.
Town cred is the key, and you could either be informed scum, or faking such information as scum in the information is whatever you want it to be.I knew this information at the beginning of the DP. The information is clear. If you think I’m scum, Wylted gave me the info at the start of the game, and I explicitly chose to say this information out loud this DP. You’re welcome to believe that
Because you want some minmax where scum is gonna screw up? I think it's clear at this point that they aren't gonna.
Tell me, how is scum gonna screw up? If anything you might as well claim some things to get the suspicious off ya, cause I'm not going away.
Your response to my points on Banana were such egregious logic that I was gonna go for it anyway.If ya say so. I still stand by my “logic.”
Go ahead and explain why Banana saying she had a lot of messages, got what she needed, and didn't read the rest is a scumtell, and not something like lazy play from a more casual player. I seem to remember Banana's rant about "tryharding men" from a while ago, don't you? And what about Whiteflame's point about how she's only likely to list the number of messages if she actually had them?
Talking about Bo Burnham, where she pushed for you off of low activity. That was a shitty push. So was the current one on Banana.I’ve pushed people for shitty activity myself. It wasn’t that. It was the aggression that made me scumread Banana. There’s a difference.
My point was that what Banana here is doing is different compared to Bo Burnham. I will say that you are being pretty aggressive in your read toward Banana tho ;)
Anyway, the strawmans are making me scumread you even harder.
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@ILikePie5
So… if you do happen to be wrong on Banana, would you see where I’m coming from here?
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@Casey_Risk
Do you think town or scum should know about it more if they are informed?
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@ILikePie5
Or it’s a scum trying to blend in.
… for giving reads. That’s a new one.
Why would I bullshit? If I don’t reveal the information, then I’m scum. If I wanted to use it to my advantage, I would wait till there was adequate suspicion on me to get it off of me with this, not say it upfront.
Because your “information” could be anything. And even if you have some, it doesn’t inherently make town, based on what Casey just said.
Town cred is the key, and you could either be informed scum, or faking such information as scum in the information is whatever you want it to be.
You were quick to join the wagon after Casey voted for me and not before.
Your response to my points on Banana were such egregious logic that I was gonna go for it anyway.
What are you talking about? Banana hasn’t pushed me at all. She’s been quiet for a while.
Talking about Bo Burnham, where she pushed for you off of low activity. That was a shitty push. So was the current one on Banana.
No, I still think I’m right. I’m just saying Casey’s reason to sus be is NAI coming from me cause I’ve done it both as town and scum.
lol :)
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@Casey_Risk
If you think you have some hard evidence Pie is town, better say so quick. I'm open-minded and no, I DO NOT need to know what the evidence is. aIf you have something, I'd have to conclude you and Pie are scum buddies (which is unlikely, so I'm not gonna) for Pie to remain a scumread of mine.
I'd like to either clear Pie or lynch him. The latter is more likely, but if he's town moving on from him to Lunatic sooner rather than later would be great.
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@Earth
The logic is terrible. Even using semantics about what counts as "reading." I think he's forcing some reads.
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Honestly the fact that Owen is claiming with such little pressure and being this cooperative tells me he's town. Was null, but he and Banana are my town reads.
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@Earth
@Barney
@whiteflame
@JoeBob
@Owen_T
Pie has been on some very terrible pushes. First Banana, now Owen.
Apparently saying you have a long PM, but you got what you needed from it- and trying to get good at reading people, is scummy in his eyes.
Let's get his full claim.
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@ILikePie5
Yes, that is the only reason. Behavior shifts are indicative of scum.
Not in every case. Some noob trying to get good at reads is the mark of someone trying to get gud. It is not suddenly a scumtell.
I got the justification. Then role at the end. And then Wylted clarified that X was my character. I’m
Yeah, alarm bells.
There’s zero utility in me giving up my information right now. I will give it when I see fit. You don’t know how scum might screw up. I do.
Why do you care so much? I’m going to reveal it by the time the DP ends. There’s zero town benefit for me to tell it right now
It's not just what you know. It's your character and your role, with a brief synopsis of your entry. I'm scanning everything for a fake claim or something spun as town, because I think you were bullshitting us with your "info" for town cred.
You will give it when you get to L-1 or you will get lynched. Go ahead and put up your front; it won't work. There isn't much that can save you here- just a fullclaim or someone else giving hard evidence you're town.
Casey’s MO doesn’t feel off. I dislike Mharman more. He’s just buddying Casey and obsessed with what information I might how. And he was trying to play both sides with respect to his read on Owen.
You mean thinking things through, and conceding points where reasonable. And buddying Casey? My willingness to work with her does not mean I automatically have a townread. You can be confident I am keeping tabs on Casey's behavior. Why do you think I ask people questions? It's not just to get help from them.
If that’s the case, why hasn’t he done that for anyone else. As for whether she would do that as scum or not, she’s only played scum once, and I caught her that game DP1. She’s still a noob
Wylted is strange. No offense, but he is unusual, even for this site. I can see him writing a whole ass rant about Israel vs Hamas. And the difference between here and Bo Burnham is that Banana made a shitty push on you that lacked good reasoning back then. Looks like the script has flipped here.
My point is that my “bad logic” has led to mislynches when I’m town too.
Are you second guessing your read on Banana here?
I’m not afraid of OMGUS :)
"Hey guys, I'm being bold! I'm town, see?"
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@Owen_T
Ok. I think I’ll just leave my vote where it is for now and see what happens. I’ll be back after 8
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@Earth
@Barney
@Savant
@JoeBob
Thoughts on the current happenings? Pie and Lunatic? Casey? Others in this game? Me if you want?
Asking cause the four of you have either been inactive today, said little about others, or haven’t seen the current situation yet.
(Earth I don’t need your thoughts on Banana- you’ve given those already. Unless you something more to add, which I doubt).
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I honestly don’t care who we go for first anymore, I think I’m gonna end up pushing both anyway
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@Vader
@Casey_Risk
At this point it’s hard for me to decide who’s scummier. Pie’s semantics were such an egregiously bad argument (plus what I said in post 179) and I haven’t seen how Lunatic responds to my reply yet. The latter is probably the saving grace for me not going for Lunatic instead here.
I guess it is worth asking Casey tho, you have a point there, even if that’s not the point you intended to make.
Casey, do you wanna switch onto Lunatic to give Pie some time for whatever he’s planning or do you wanna stay the course on him?
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@ILikePie5
I did not mean to ping you in the above message.
Anyway, here’s a question: Does your info have information on another player? I may or may not be willing to back off depending on your answer.
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@ILikePie5
Oh and there’s also Joebob Austin and Earth. I almost forgot about them with how little they’ve been posting.
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And Greyparrot. I dont fully buy his claim either. On one hand Crab God with some unknown power sounds like a Wylted move, on the other, Greyparrot got caught off claiming rolecop last game and I wonder if the tactic is to evade such a thing. Gut tells me to believe him, but I’m very cautious about it. I think if he really was looking to avoid last game's problem he might try something else.
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In the meantime, i will be thinking about others. I don’t know how I feel on Casey, Whiteflame, and Barney yet so I’ll read into them.
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
@Casey_Risk
I’d prefer Lunatic over Pie but I’m very suspicious on both so I’m willing to go with it. Honestly why not both?
I know Pie says he’s got info that could trip up scum, but at this point with my concerns on him it’s not worth it. Some parts of his thought process feel natural, but the read on Banana is egregious and some of the points feels forced. Not a fan of the semantics. Plus if he’s town id rather have the his information anyway. If he’s willing to give the info later this DP, I can only conclude if he’s town he’s withholding it for what would be a small min-max on an off-chance scum screws up in some vague way, which I’d be willing to give up.
VTL Pie
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@ILikePie5
I disagree with that. She’s well aware that justification matters.
Btw with the way my PM is structured, the justification was given before Wylted’s tangent, and think it’s a given that Banana’s PM followed this structure.
If yours isnt structured in such a way, that would be ringing alarm bells for me.
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all in all, I’d just need more evidence from other behaviors of Owen before I conclude he’s buddying Banana here.
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I think when a noob learns to play mafia, their gameplay goes through stages of development. Stage 1 is “I don’t know how to read people, someone help” and the next stage is where they give reads that can sometimes be or hasty or worse faulty because they don’t consider enough angles.
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@ILikePie5
Why would it be punishment? Better question is: how do you know it’s punishment? Behavior won us the game last game. Everyone townread Casey at the beginning.
I wouldn’t say I know it’s a punishment for sure, but if he’s town and we sus him off that, we essentially just sussed him for trying to improve at reading others. And that is an idea I’m not too keen on. Point is, I would want to see more that’s off about him before I have any sus on him. Yeah behavior analysis wins games, but not every abnormal behavior (compared to previous games) is scummy.
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@ILikePie5
I think his point about Banana is logical because I also thought about it, but I also think he was quick and didn’t wait for more info to give a read.
I would say I’m null. I think being quick would make him look a little scummy, but that gets nullified by the fact the point he made is completely logical.
I say the defense of Banana is good because I agree with it.
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@ILikePie5
This is just semantics on what counts as “reading.” Skimming might technically be reading, but are you really reading it if all you did was skim?
My point here is that you might not be operating with the same definition she is. I think the big picture is that she saw a bunch of paragraphs, and didn’t think it was worth the effort.
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@ILikePie5
Him giving reads right away is kinda odd. I don’t think he’s ever done that before. I distinctly remember me needing to tell him to give reads cause he “town read” everyonez
I don’t like the idea of punishing him for trying to get good at the game.
I will admit however, that his reads have crossed my mind. Ya know how I find it weird how people believed some claims a little to quick? I felt Owen was a little quick as well. The defense of Banana is good and all, but even I had a slight hesitation.
The thing is, the point Owen did raise about Banana was a point I had been thinking about at the time. Until Banana mentioned her PM contained a tangent about Israel vs Hamas, the debate in my mind was about whether or not Banana felt the need to overshare for town cred (banking on a defense like Owen’s) or if it was just simply mentioning it as a complaint about the long PM. I also wondered if she was looking for other people with long PMs while operating on some flawed theory.
All this to say: Until she mentioned Israel-Hamas, I was cautious about the claim as well, whereas Owen believed it from the get go.
the thing is, what Owen said is precisely one of the points in my mind in that debate and I can see Owen’s thought process here. I wouldn’t surprised if scum split themselves on a sus, but I don’t think Owen’s take, albeit a little quick, was that egregious. There might be a little something there, but Owen’s reasoning is not the least logical thing I’ve seen this DP
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To put it simply, I don’t think Banana is the tryhard gamer type like we are.
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
and with regards to Banana, I don’t think she needs to read the entirety of her PM to extract the character, role and justification. Mine were all given at the start before Wylted went on a much shorter tangent. I read all mine, but mine was probably nowhere near as long as hers.
Yes, it is probably better if Banana reads the whole thing, but I see why she would not read all that, even if it’s not optimal and lazy of her.
I imagine she just skimmed it quickly and that’s how she knows it’s about Israel vs Hamas.
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@ILikePie5
I haven’t claimed anything yet. I just said I have some information that I will give when I see fit or at the end of the DP.
I’m counting that as a claim. Not in the traditional sense of the word, just that you have claimed to know something, and we have to figure out whether we can believe you or not.
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Anyways, due to Barney’s earlier misunderstanding of how Vader’s claimed role works, I don’t think he can be in a scum team with Vader. Doesn’t exonerate him, but if one is proven scum the other is probably proven town by proxy.
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Like seriously, how can one not be suspicious of Pie, Vader, or Lunatic, but be suspicious of Banana?
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@Vader
I dont see how someone can be suspicious about Banana, but have absolutely nothing to say about anything else.
I realize I didn’t word this clearly. When I say “anything else” I mean anything else related to the other claims- Greyparrot, Vader, Pie.
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I will add that I think Pie’s behavior and reasoning seem townier than Vader’s.
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@Vader
The reason why I asked that question is I don’t trust your claim. Not yet.
So I decided to ask the question to probe for what I’m thinking may be a fake claim for quick town cred. The idea being, if there’s no benefit to town other than confirming yourself, it may not mean much-as much as you say your role is explicitly townie, I’m not ready to buy it just yet.
From a game design standpoint, a role that requires one to get a few votes on themselves sounds like a role that gives the player an incentive to act a little suspicious, but not enough to get lynched. I feel like this type of role is a bit scummy; a type of role that encourages mafia to take some risk to gain a power. I get the sense there was an oversight on Wylted’s part- I don’t think he thought of how the player could just ask people to vote for him.
Of course, there’s a risk-reward in all of this. If I am completely wrong and push too hard on you for this, I run the risk of mafia gaining some information, which is why I decided the question I was asking was a bad idea.
Thankfully, I dont just have to think about your role. I am VERY suspicious of people who bought your claim so quickly (same applies for Greyparrot’s). I mentioned this earlier, but I’ve been thinking about if scum is going to be quick to buy town’s claims this game… or if they are going to immediately throw shade. I’ve decided they would be quick to buy the first few claims, thinking “ah, I don’t want to look scummy pushing for something that town might take at face value.” Of course this means that some people who are too quick to believe a claim are town, but it also means scum is blending in among them.
Of course, because we dealing with so many claims, I get the sense that scum would have to twist themselves in a pretzel to throw shade on a claim at some point, and I believe we saw this with Banana’s claim. I was a little skeptical at first too, but I felt it was far less suspicious compared to your claim, Greyparrot’s claim, and Pie’s claim. And yet, her claim of having a long PM where she didn’t read all of it (probably because she didn’t need to read the entire thing to understand her role and justification) is the claim that garnered the most suspicion from others. I dont see how someone can be suspicious about Banana, but have absolutely nothing to say about anything else. I have an FoS on Lunatic and Pie for it. Pie I’m willing to give a (temporary) pass for it, but I’m starting to scumread Lunatic for it. Whether or not your claim is fake and you’re his teammate, or he’s buddying you, can be figured out later. I’m leaning toward you being his teammate tbh- but I suppose that, to lesser degree, I might let you cook. For now.
I would not be surprised if you and Pie are both bullshitting town, less for you than for Pie. Regardless, Lunatic is my top scumread right now.
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Another thing worth noting is that refusing to believe a claim, in spite of good evidence, is just as damaging as believing a claim too quickly.
I have some more thoughts on several things, but I think I’ll leave it at that for now. I’ll show my cards after I get some input from others on my thoughts.
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For clarification, being quick to believe Vader was one point against Pie in my mind. He gets an exemption from that point for the above reason.
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If Pie knows something we don’t and has a secret play, it gives him plenty of insight into Vader, since Pie might conclude Vader is doing something similar.
It is for this reason that I sense some genuineness in Pie’s behavior- he seemed quick to believe Vader and I’ve been thinking some people have been way too quick to believe some things some people have claimed.
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@Vader
Does your role have any other benefit to town, other than confirming yourself?
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