Mharman

I’d prefer Lunatic over Pie but I’m very suspicious on both so I’m willing to go with it. Honestly why not both?

I know Pie says he’s got info that could trip up scum, but at this point with my concerns on him it’s not worth it. Some parts of his thought process feel natural, but the read on Banana is egregious and some of the points feels forced. Not a fan of the semantics. Plus if he’s town id rather have the his information anyway. If he’s willing to give the info later this DP, I can only conclude if he’s town he’s withholding it for what would be a small min-max on an off-chance scum screws up in some vague way, which I’d be willing to give up.

Btw with the way my PM is structured, the justification was given before Wylted’s tangent, and think it’s a given that Banana’s PM followed this structure.

If yours isnt structured in such a way, that would be ringing alarm bells for me.

all in all, I’d just need more evidence from other behaviors of Owen before I conclude he’s buddying Banana here.

I think when a noob learns to play mafia, their gameplay goes through stages of development. Stage 1 is “I don’t know how to read people, someone help” and the next stage  is where they give reads that can sometimes be or hasty or worse faulty because they don’t consider enough angles.

I wouldn’t say I know it’s a punishment for sure, but if he’s town and we sus him off that, we essentially just sussed him for trying to improve at reading others. And that is an idea I’m not too keen on. Point is, I would want to see more that’s off about him before I have any sus on him. Yeah behavior analysis wins games, but not every abnormal behavior (compared to previous games) is scummy.

I think his point about Banana is logical because I also thought about it, but I also think he was quick and didn’t wait for more info to give a read.

I would say I’m null. I think being quick would make him look a little scummy, but that gets nullified by the fact the point he made is completely logical.

I say the defense of Banana is good because I agree with it.

This is just semantics on what counts as “reading.” Skimming might technically be reading, but are you really reading it if all you did was skim?

My point here is that you might not be operating with the same definition she is. I think the big picture is that she saw a bunch  of paragraphs, and didn’t think it was worth the effort.

To put it simply, I don’t think Banana is the tryhard gamer type like we are.

and with regards to Banana, I don’t think she needs to read the entirety of her PM to extract the character, role and justification. Mine were all given at the start before Wylted went on a much shorter tangent. I read all mine, but mine was probably nowhere near as long as hers.

Yes, it is probably better if Banana reads the whole thing, but I see why she would not read all that, even if it’s not optimal and lazy of her. 

I imagine she just skimmed it quickly and that’s how she knows it’s about Israel vs Hamas.

I’m counting that as a claim. Not in the traditional sense of the word, just that you have claimed to know something, and we have to figure out whether we can believe you or not.

Anyways, due to Barney’s earlier misunderstanding of how Vader’s claimed role works, I don’t think he can be in a scum team with Vader. Doesn’t exonerate him, but if one is proven scum the other is probably proven town by proxy.

Like seriously, how can one not be suspicious of Pie, Vader, or Lunatic, but be suspicious of Banana?

I realize I didn’t word this clearly. When I say “anything else” I mean anything else related to the other claims- Greyparrot, Vader, Pie.

I will add that I think Pie’s behavior and reasoning seem townier than Vader’s.

The reason why I asked that question is I don’t trust your claim. Not yet.

So I decided to ask the question to probe for what I’m thinking may be a fake claim for quick town cred. The idea being, if there’s no benefit to town other than confirming yourself, it may not mean much-as much as you say your role is explicitly townie, I’m not ready to buy it just yet.

From a game design standpoint, a role that requires one to get a few votes on themselves sounds like a role that gives the player an incentive to act a little suspicious, but not enough to get lynched. I feel like this type of role is a bit scummy; a type of role that encourages mafia to take some risk to gain a power. I get the sense there was an oversight on Wylted’s part- I don’t think he thought of how the player could just ask people to vote for him.

Of course, there’s a risk-reward in all of this. If I am completely wrong and push too hard on you for this, I run the risk of mafia gaining some information, which is why I decided the question I was asking was a bad idea. 

Thankfully, I dont just have to think about your role. I am VERY suspicious of people who bought your claim so quickly (same applies for Greyparrot’s). I mentioned this earlier, but I’ve been thinking about if scum is going to be quick to buy town’s claims this game… or if they are going to immediately throw shade. I’ve decided they would be quick to buy the first few claims, thinking “ah, I don’t want to look scummy pushing for something that town might take at face value.” Of course this means that some people who are too quick to believe a claim are town, but it also means scum is blending in among them.

Of course, because we dealing with so many claims, I get the sense that scum would have to twist themselves in a pretzel to throw shade on a claim at some point, and I believe we saw this with Banana’s claim. I was a little skeptical at first too, but I felt it was far less suspicious compared to your claim, Greyparrot’s claim, and Pie’s claim. And yet, her claim of having a long PM where she didn’t read all of it (probably because she didn’t need to read the entire thing to understand her role and justification) is the claim that garnered the most suspicion from others. I dont see how someone can be suspicious about Banana, but have absolutely nothing to say about anything else. I have an FoS on Lunatic and Pie for it. Pie I’m willing to give a (temporary) pass for it, but I’m starting to scumread Lunatic for it. Whether or not your claim is fake and you’re his teammate, or he’s buddying you, can be figured out later. I’m leaning toward you being his teammate tbh- but I suppose that, to lesser degree, I might let you cook. For now.

I would not be surprised if you and Pie are both bullshitting town, less for you than for Pie. Regardless, Lunatic is my top scumread right now.

On the thoughts I’ve expressed, obviously

I have some more thoughts on several things, but I think I’ll leave it at that for now. I’ll show my cards after I get some input from others on my thoughts.

For clarification, being quick to believe Vader was one point against Pie in my mind. He gets an exemption from that point for the above reason.

If Pie knows something we don’t and has a secret play, it gives him plenty of insight into Vader, since Pie might conclude Vader is doing something similar.

It is for this reason that I sense some genuineness in Pie’s behavior- he seemed quick to believe Vader and I’ve been thinking some people have been way too quick to believe some things some people have claimed.

Actually: don’t answer the above question.

Does your role have any other benefit to town, other than confirming yourself?

I guess if Pie’s bullshitting us we can get him tomorrow. I’m down to let him cook for now.

Anyway your answer is probably a “no” on that theory… which tbh was pretty low odds but I wanted to check.

So why give the information at the end of the DP and not now? People are gonna know going into the night phase, and I think it’s better for town to know while daylight is out. What utility could there possibly be in waiting to give such information?

^^^

Honestly great point. I would’ve never thought of this

Do you plan on being the hammer for this DP?

And what combination, if a little bit of both?

A townie makes some kind of claim. Does scum take immediately it at face value to buddy or does scum throw shade? Is their aim to buddy this early on, or is it to plant the seeds of a mislynch? A lot becomes clearer if I can figure out the answer.

You get the gist. I’m not surprised Wylted went on a tangent about Israel vs Hamas

*explanation, not reasoning

I’m gonna believe Banana here. I wasn’t immediately sold, but after hearing Banana’s reasoning here, I buy it.

Here

Yay heaven/hell won

Heaven/Hell

After he died I showed him the setup and the teams, so he knew everything by DP2

Yes, you were his pick for the second scum. GP being guilty threw him off like the rest of town

No it’s fine I’m not bothered

Yeah. Considering that scum had two JOATS and could use four total abilities per night plus the night kill, the play cost them a lot of utility too

Yeah ur reads have been sharp since misreading Wylted in Inheritance Cycle. I remember being a little concerned about you figuring the whole thing out in that game after DP3 - it’s not the main reason we NKd you tho

lol Pie was messaging me nonstop about things going on the game, even after death. He gets invested in these games, you can tell

Also Austin, fake claiming as town rarely works and I’m surprised you went for it after what happened in Ace Attorney Mafia… this is a bit more understandable because claiming the only person who visited Savant (and a roleblock nonetheless) wasn’t that great… but it does seem like the lesser of two evils here.

Pie, I feel like ur the first nk so often when ur town LOL.

I’ll post more about my thought process while making the setup later

I was getting to it but thx lol 

Endgame 

MVP: Lunatic

Was on every correct wagon, avoided every incorrect wagon. Good analysis and reads  throughout, and was thinking about Casey being scum long before he proposed the idea to Wylted. He noticed something was off around NP2 I think.

NP1

Casey - Kill Pie, Hide behind Savant, Waive second action

Pie - Protect Lunatic

Austin - Roleblock Savant

Whiteflame - Commute

Lunatic - Guess Savant

Savant - Watch Vader

NP2

Casey - Kill Savant with Ninja, waive second action

Whiteflame- Commute

Savant - Watch Casey

NP3

Casey - Kill Whiteflame, waive both night actions