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hmmmm. Maybe not. We'll see. My #1 pick is def Whiteflame tho
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Depending on Austin's claim, I kinda want to lynch between Whiteflame and Cerulean now, with Austin as pick #3.
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@whiteflame
I am very skeptical of this claim
1. I just looked up this role, and that's not how it works (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Voodoo_Lady). Normally it's a mafia aligned role where there's a 50/50 shot the person who says the word dies. So unless Pie gave you some special version of the role (assuming you have it), this is complete BS. Even if you do have the role, I'm inclined to believe you were trying to get an extra kill on Lunatic, since you just said you were gonna try to bait him into saying it.
2. I'm not sure if this role counts as investigative, but it is a role that can be used to town confirm someone, at least with the version you claimed. Cerulean's claimed role outright confirms the role of someone upon his death, and Wylted's is pretty much just a cop. So I think either you or Cerulean is lying.
3. This role is super out there, so you might not even have it at all.
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My read on Whiteflame from last DP remains the same, with the addition of him VTLing Wylted at the end. I held off to see if he was gonna do it because I decided I was fine either way. It's not much but I do remember in Ace Attorney mafia he spent a long time dancing around a vote to avoid suspicion when he hammered me in Ace Attorney Mafia.
Austin moves ahead of Cerulean in my sus list because Cerulean wasn't on the wagon. Regardless, Whiteflame is the safer lynch between to two from my pov.
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@Cerulean
No lynch is fine I guess, but I don't see the usefulness either.
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I am a bulletproof. As I mentioned last DP, my character is Nasuada. The justification is that Nasuada, a strong-willed individual, survived torture on multiple occasions- specifically, torture while captured by Galbatorix and the Trial of Long Knives
I would like to lynch between Whiteflame, Austin, and Cerulean.
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@n8nrgim
They certainly are retarded and asking for guys to stare at them. Are they asking to be SA’d? No.
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@whiteflame
It's partly how I'm interpreting things elsewhere in their behavior. ADOL gets a bit of a noob pass, and Lunatic gets a town-confirmed pass. Austin doesn't get one, plus, I don't think his logic is all that good
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@whiteflame
Lunatic is town confirmed for one, an I haven't seen anything scummy about ADOL. Even if it's mostly from last DP, I still have reasons to scumread Austin.
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@whiteflame
It wasn't just his read on Cerulean last DP, it was also his read on Lunatic. Keep in mind Lunatic had posted very little at that point- this is before he was town confirmed. This DP, I just think him jumping in on Wylted like that is opportunistic. He was the second on the wagon.
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I'd choose a lynch of a VTNL most times, unsure if that applies to Wylted. Upside is the info and resolution, downside is that it's an obvious mislynch and we'll be in MYLO tomorrow. I know you guys don't see it that way, but I do. VTNLing lacks the information but we won't be in MYLO tommorrow. Have half a mind to say we'll have enough night information to cover, although I'm not sure on that. I guess if we do lynch Wylted here a play can be made in the night, so there's that.
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@WyIted
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@WyIted
That depends on the game. The CoD community and Warhammer community are more conservative compared to most, but Pokemon and Overwatch? Yeah good luck finding conservatives there. I've played the latter two.
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@ADreamOfLiberty
@AustinL0926
@Cerulean
Would any of yall be down for an alternative lynch on Austin or Whiteflame? If not, what alternative lynches do you prefer? What about a VTNL? Im not really decided on a VTNL, but I am leaning towards a lynch over a VTNL.
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@WyIted
oh no gen alpha infected you...
For an alternative lynch to work we have to figure out who at least a few of the people on my wagon would be willing to lynch and I have been almost the entire focus of this DP
i'm down
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@WyIted
Not quite sure, admittedly. My best guess is that it's simply for towncred. For example, if scum didn't roleblock someone last night, they can claim they were roleblocked.
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@WyIted
yeah, I can see an Austin and Whiteflame team. I feel like you're not considering just how much Cerulean could be be flying under the radar right now.
Are you down for Whiteflame? I'd want the claim first, but he's gonna be my preferred lynch over Austin because my top team theory is Whiteflame Cerulean. The upside is that if I'm wrong on Cerulean, we've still gotten Whiteflame, who is also Austin most likely teammate for me if he's scum.
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@Lunatic
Ok, so he claimed only his role under no pressure then. Doesn't change the fact that he claimed under no pressure. I see your point about how his teammate could have signed off on his behavior, but it's just that: A "could have."
Sure, a scum teammate could just let Wylted do whatever, but in my experience scum tends to be more collaborative.
They could also not be knowledgable on the theme, but that assumes they haven't done research. At the very least, they'd know the theme split puts their real characters in the crosshairs, and claiming the role associated with said character is silly.
Wylted could have such a playstyle like what you're describing, and he could be so aggressive that he claimed vanillizer without any input from his teammate, without a desire to claim a character. Last time I saw Wylted as scum, he did not play like that. To me, the level of aggression being asserted here is a bit far, even for Wylted, and I also think it rests on too many assumptions.
And sure, there could be some strong investigative ability hiding out there. But that's gonna vary from player to player on whether or not they hide.
My point here is, your scumread on him depends on a perfect storm of Wylted being this aggro and brazen (in multiple differents ways so this could be split further), no teammate holding him back, and a strong investigative role just hiding out.
My townread on him is just more natural. He got mislynched for failing to SoP last game, and he adjusted by claiming at the slightest thought that his role could be negative utility, and therefore SoP-worthy. He is a cop, and he really did feel like clearing you. Themesplit is of little importance because it could be anything.
I get not everything is what it seems in the game of mafia, but sometimes, the "simple truth" is actually the truth. Too many things have to line up for your case.
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ok that wasn't much of a TLDR but whatever. I could've gone into more detail too.
goodnight
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Fuck it. I'm tired and I'm not gonna finish typing this out tonight.
TLDR Version:
Cerulean- All in all, I still scumread him. For reasons I laid out in DP1, I am very dubious of the idea that Cerulean wanted us all to speculate scum's roles based on some likely characters for reasons I stated DP1. I think it's a retroactive justification. I also think his weird spec into a disjointed mafia makes no sense and is more of a "look guys I'm doing something" than anything else. Oracle is weak role and Elva isn't on the main characters list. I thought about this for a while and given the context of his behavior, I think he was banking on more people having non-main character roles and was also looking for info on who had strong PRs by way of having main-ish characters.
Whiteflame- The most plausible teammate to Cerulean. Disagreed with many of his points on Cerulean to the point where they felt weird. Like his best defense was some gigabrain play he was alleging Cerulean was doing with basically no evidence for it. He also moved Cerulean's "hey look I'm doing something" speculation forward with some theory about a lone wolf that has a snowball's chance in hell of being true. I can see this interaction as scripted, or just mutual interaction for the sake of interacting with the thread. Seriously. He can tell Casey that looking into Cerulean fishing for info is a misleading rabbit hole, but speculating about how maifa might be separated or in a lone wolf scenario isn't? He also had a point about how some people could have offbeat chracters for a specific role, and Cerulean is the only person here who has one.
Austin - He rubs me the wrong way. The thing is, I can understand his scumread on Cerulean in DP1 because it's obvious. But his sus on Wylted this DP seems a bit opportunistic. I still don't understand why we want to lynch an un-CCd cop, and I will probably be fighting it until low time, assuming he's not effectively hammered by then. Going back to DP1, I felt he was too quick to give Lunatic and Cerulean a pass early in the DP. He was he went with the same sus on Cerulean everyone had... and then said he had an early townread on him. It makes no sense to me. At that time Lunatic had made like one post that really wasn't all that much imo. When I asked, his justification was basically "muh vibes." The thing is, he did eventually vote for Cerulean and pushing him more after I called him out on it. I doubt they're on the same team. All in all, I have a stronger scumread on Cerulean than Austin. At least Austin explained his thought process a little better in this DP. The teammate here is something I'm still thinking about. In this case my top teammate would be Whiteflame, but the connection isn't super strong. It's more because I'm scumreading Whiteflame more than anything else.
ADOL - Slight townlean, almost null but it's more of a noob pass. He isn't giving too much imo, and that's fine because I don't expect much more from him. I do agree that his input isn't easy for noob scum to fake at least. Take this one with a grain of salt.
Lunatic - Basically town confirmed off Wylted's results. For him to be scum, I'd have to believe Lunatic and his partner would had to have scouted Wylted's role to know that he doesn't vanillize scum, and then pretend like Lunatic was vanillized... and that Lunatic happened to have something that made him look innocent to investigations. Granted, it's all technically possible, but unlikely. Seriously, what scum team rolecops someone's who's already claimed? I'm shocked arsonist is town in this game, but whatever.
Wylted - He is an un CC-d cop. I've read a lot of Lunatic's points, but I just don't think they are correct. Couldn't a teammate talk him out of any stupid shit he'd do, too? The scumread him I'm being asked to assume he had impulsively claimed his actual role and character as scum for towncred out of literal nowhere. I don't even think Wylted is that ballsy. I really don't. Again, it also makes sense why he claimed. He said right out of the gate that he may have negative utility, and claimed it pretty quick when Whiteflame expressed some interest. Sure you could argue he was under some small amount of pressure when he claimed Galbatorix, but he was under virtually none when he claimed vanillizer. And again, it makes sense why he behaved the way he did when you consider he was mislynched last game, in part because he didn't SoP his miller role.
Earth - Obvious town, should be fully confirmed this DP. No scum claims a verifiable role like that to blend in. He claimed it from the start as an SoP too. The odds that scum has this role are next to none imo. Looks like Pie put the negative utility in there just for game balance.
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@whiteflame
Spent a lot of time reading and thinking. Typing out full reads now.
I would like your claim, yes.
VTL Whiteflame
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@WyIted
For the record, yes, I really was townreading Wyted so hard that I didn't even consider Wylted was lying. I still do townread Wylted pretty solidly... Lunatic, I see your point about Wylted's playstyle, but I'm not there with you on that. I think occam's razor says Wylted just expected everyone to believe his cop claim and a scum Wylted wouldn't. I'll keep it in the back if my mind, but I want to look at other options before revisiting this. I kinda want to take another look at Cerulean today. A claim from Whiteflame is fine too.
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@Earth
@AustinL0926
@WyIted
My character is Nasuada, I would strongly prefer not to role claim yet.
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@WyIted
wait, are you looking for a lynch or a claim first on Whiteflame? Cause I’m gonna be looking for a claim first if I get in on this
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@WyIted
Let's vote whiteflame. It's not that I blame anyone for putting me in their scum pile. Lunatic gave reasons, ADOL gave legitimate reasons. It's just that whiteflames responses have felt manufactured
Im still thinking about Cerulean (and would like to take another look at him today), but Whiteflame is on my radar to be a teammate. I’m down, lemme catch up first
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@Lunatic
I’ll give some updated thoughts and reads when I’m done catching up here. I’m still looking at my notifications
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@Lunatic
Btw he didn't claim without pressure. I pieced together that he was Galbatorix based on his role, and in my response to Austin made a point about how the role would make sense with him, then immediately after Wylted confirmed I was right (this is the behavioral argument you are asking for btw), as it made sense to me that he would need someones true name (IE Role in this context) in order to vanillize them, and he said he would use it on earth who was the only one who had claimed at that point. To me it seemed extremely convenient I happened to be right about his character, it seemed to me he had panicked and decided to just go with the claim and hope WIFOM would allow him to live, which it apparently has.
Thought about this point for a while. It’s compelling at least.
I see your point on his behavior, at least about the character claim. However, he hinted that his role was negative utility far before he was under any pressure, and all Whiteflame needed to do to get the role out of him was just ask. Why would anyone on a scum team go for this? All it does is draw attention to oneself, especially if you are claiming something that can be traced back to your character so easily, as was proven.
The only answer I can see you giving here is “for towncred,” but that doesn’t match up with the behavior. If he’s looking for towncred, why not follow through with targeting Earth? If he’s looking for something more than townread, I can see him switching targets, but that’s only if he expects to be townread afterwards… at which point I think it’s more likely he’s telling the truth and town.
How likely do you think it is that an investigative ability wouldn’t CC him here? Cause if I’m an investigative ability at this point, I would be CCing Wylted here.
As for the other half of that post, yes you are correct, arguing about your role is pointless now. I was just shocked that Wylted was outright calling you town because I hadn’t read his post about being a cop yet. I figured he would only be targeting you if he scumread you at the time.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
We don't know that for sure. Lunatic claimed that.
Wylted confirmed that Lunatic was his target, which was after Lunatic went after him. If Lunatic were mafia, he wouldn’t know he was targeted to begin with, since Wylted’s role doesn’t vanillize mafia.
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@Lunatic
@WyIted
Wow that’s actually crazy. Given how hard Lunatic was pushing Wylted before Wylted even announced his target and rationale… I’d have to believe there was some crazy scripted coordination for Lunatic to be scum. Wylted’s results clearly weren’t interfered with since Lunatic lost his powers, and Wylted has yet to be CC’d, so he’s probably not scum either.
Nevermind on all that I guess.
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@Lunatic
You are only considering his motivations as town. Why? As scum he alos had major reason to target me would he not?
I mean he would have a reason if he felt threatened by your thoughts on him yesterday. I’m considering his motivation as town first because I’ve been behaviorally townreading him since he claimed with no pressure. Granted, his role isn’t complete negative utility to me (so there’s a chance he really didn’t have a reason so SoP claim), but I can see why he did considering last game.
Im not goonna argue what roles would or would not exist in the game when I literally know my role and the theme extremely well. Wylted is saying I am town. What say you to that?
???
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I’m gonna see if I can read and double check what Lunatic is saying here later
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@Lunatic
In literally every interaction with Eragon, its clear that Murtagh doesn't want to be in service to Galbatorix and is there against his will. His character is kind of tragic for this, and the Varden imprison him almost immediately in the first book when they reach Farthen Dur.
Durza technically was forced to work for galbatorix too, but I'd say that character was evil regardless of being forced to or not. You can see that from the opening prologue when he kills a couple of Urgals just for failing him. Durza is just bad in general.
Hm. I guess that makes sense.
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He never indicated that, and note I was THE ONLY one scumreading him, so the only reason for him to do this was for omgus, which he wasn't doing publicly. So he was afraid of what I could be and knew I would proably target him.
You have a slight point in that he didn’t omgus you publicly, but he clearly was scumreading you, otherwise he wouldn’t have vanillized you.
Unless he targeted someone else and was redirected, at which point he’s town anyways for the scum team targeting him.
If you knew the books, you would know this is the perfect role for Eragon actually, brisngr was the first word of power he learned in the books, and also grants him an OP sword towards the end of the series as he discovers is part of his swords true name.
Ok but from a game design standpoint, I don’t see it. It’s pretty unusual and when Ive seen it, it was scum sided. Seems op for town in a role mad game too, when there’s so many other roes as well.
Tell ya what. It is a ballsy fake claim if you’re going for it, but I’m gonna need a damn good reason for it to be town here.
He never stated scum reading me once, where as my vote was on him for the latter half of the day phase. Why are you buddying wylted so hard?
He literally claimed with no pressure in a move that I can only interpret as him learning from last game. I’ve been townreading him for a while because of it. Nothing rubbed me the wrong way about him either. I’m going to repeat my question from last DP: Is there anything behavioral on Wylted that you were basing your thoughts on him on?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
i guess Durza is on the table if it’s good v evil yeah
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@Lunatic
Sure he was forced, but he played an antagonistic role for a long time. How much does the series really emphasize him as a hero?
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@Lunatic
Sure he was forced, but he played an antagonistic role for a long time. How much does the series really emphasize him as a hero?
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@Lunatic
Wylted is 100% scum. For one, he vanillized me.
He probably scumread you.
And I guess since I am vanillized I will just full claim, as there is literally no reason not to. I am Eragon, IE the main character and protagonist. Because of my sword Brisngr has the power the ignite flames with its true name, I am the arsonist. I can prime a player each night and can ignite it once only during the game. Last night I primed wylted because I thought he was scum, but I'll not be able to kill him now since I am vanilla.
Arsonist? I very skeptical of that. That seems like a batshit crazy role to put in this game.
And here you say how you targeted Wylted off a scumread. Why can’t he do the same to you?
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Would anyone here call Murtagh a villain? I would say he is, although he breaks free of his enslavement at the end.
If we call Murtagh a villain here, I definitely think it’s possible for Galbatorix to be town as well. I just don’t think there’s any reason to say Wylted’s scum, not even in the slightest.
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Would anyone here call Murtagh a villain? He kind of is, although he breaks free of his enslavement at the end.
If we call Murtagh a villain here, I definitely think it’s possible for Galbatorix to be town as well. I just don’t think there’s any reason to say Wylted’s scum, not even in the slightest.
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