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@ADreamOfLiberty
I was expecting a protective role. Felt like I wasn’t the only role that should be able to stop a night kill here. Guess not.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
That is not what I was expecting… I’m gonna second Lunatic’s question here.
I’ll say what I was expecting after you answer.
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As long as ADOL’s claim isn’t egregious, I’m down to say he’s clear. Especially given the claims we have here.
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@AustinL0926
I obviously was not notified of anything.
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@AustinL0926
Why not motivate ADOL? He also didn't want to claim.
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@Lunatic
Do you go out of your way to make noobs scum on their first game? Wylted says it’s a dick move to make noobs scum in their first game and says he wouldn’t do it.
I just adhere to pure randomness. I think that’s what most mods do today. I would hope anyway. My pov is that influencing what noobs can be results in games that can be cheesed simply by asking where the mod would put a noob.
I can’t speak for all mods of course, but Ive seen this conversation before. Iirc most people in that convo took the side of randomness. That may have been a conversation about team balancing tho- but I think it was about noobs. Regardless, if you’re not tf2-style auto balancing teams before the game starts as a mod, you’re probably not designating certain affiliations to noobs either.
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@Lunatic
It’s also possible that neither exist because of Wylted and Earth’s roles, but then I’d have to argue two people on the same scum team claimed roles that can be a soft CC of each other- although Cerulean doesn’t seem to think there’s such a CC that can actually be made.
If it’s Whiteflame it’s most likely Austin that’s the teammate. If it’s Cerulean it gets tricky because it’s either that Whiteflame claimed something that could be used to CC his own teammate, or that Austin was willing to lynch his own teammate DP1 (I know Austin had a questionable townread of Ceruean DP1 after laying out a good reason to sus Cerulean, but he was on the wagon when I’m not sure he had to be by the end of it). I guess ADOL exists too, but he’s not an easy scumread rn.
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@Lunatic
No i both prime and ignite in the night. I have unlimited primes, only one ignite.
Doesn’t matter anymore. Just got told that bulletproofs are immune to bullets only.
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@Lunatic
But Elva had lied to her about it if I remember correctly, Nasuada basically changed what was supposed to happen by being pure unadulterated badass.
Ah. Well I’m no theme expert.
If you’re wondering what the question I asked Pie was, I asked if my bulletproof would protect me from non-lynch day kills, like from your role for example. I haven’t gotten an answer yet.
You ignite primed targets in the day, correct? That’s how I remember Supa’s behaved when had it in a game a few years ago.
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@Lunatic
Given that both Whiteflame and Cerulean’s claimed roles can be used to confirm a townie, and that Wylted’s role already can do that too, I don’t think both of their claims can be real. I consider both roles to be pretty weak, too, while Wylted’s is strong imo. I think there’s only room to pair one such weak-ish role with Wylted’s role. Plus, Earth’s role also exists.
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@Lunatic
Also, if you need any more reason to believe my claim, I will note that Nasuada being told she was gonna survive is fitting. Not sure if that’s the point you were already making when you said that, but I’m noting it here.
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@Lunatic
That’s interesting I guess. What do you think are the odds Whiteflame went for such a claim? Because he just made a very good argument to me about why he wouldn’t go for that claim if he’s scum.
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@whiteflame
That point above is pretty convincing. I still don’t like your behavior from earlier, but I can see that this claim would be pretty stupid from you if you’re scum. I guess I’ll go reread past DPs and see if I went wrong anywhere on you… should do that with everyone tbh
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@whiteflame
And, lastly, if someone dies during the DP, I'm the obvious cause of their death because I've outed my role.
Noted
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@whiteflame
So you're thinking that I used my role on someone as scum, it failed to kill them because it's a 50-50 chance, then I just gave up on trying this DP and gave away the role claiming that it's town instead and I was RB'd, which also destroys any chance of my being able to use it this DP and get another coin flip?
No? I’m saying there’s a possibility you used it and claimed to be roleblocked. That doesn’t destroy your chances of it working.
It would be pretty careless to draw the obvious heat I knew I was going to get by claiming this role just to avoid a rapidly dwindling possibility of being CC'd when I'd have role and character information in hand. I've made bad moves before as scum, but this might top them.
This is your best argument, and it’s on my mind. But the thing is, this can be something scum does when they really need to get some claim. I guess my biggest hang up here is the context of everything else I’ve been scumreading you for. I just don’t think I should suddenly clear you just because you may have a bit of a point in your favor.
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But then why wouldn’t he find something else that’s obscure and not voodoo lady… hm. I haven’t liked Whoteflame’s behavior at any point this game, but the choice is damn stupid for any fake claim
That doesn’t make it stupid for a spin though, not entirely. It’d be risky but he can go for it
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@whiteflame
Hold on a sec, can’t you just you just claim your actual role, spin it as town, and pretend to be roleblocked for towncred when you weren’t rb’d at all? Who’s to say you didn’t actually use it on Lunatic, or someone else?
I can see you doing this or just digging up the role to avoid being CC’d if you used up your role inquiries and didn’t like the options.
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God I keep thinking I'm gonna hard-solve the game in an instant... I need to slow down
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@whiteflame
I think we at least need a claim from ADOL and Austin before we go any further. I don’t blame you or anyone else for finding my claim sus, I just don’t know how you would think I’m actually the Voodoo Lady and I would fake being RB’d twice in a row rather than trying to kill my target with it. If you want to believe I as scum would seek out such an obscure scum role, modify it, and present it to you as though it were a town role, then I’m kind of flattered honestly. More work than I’ve ever done as scum for a fake claim.
hmmmmmm. This is a good point.
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hmmmm. Maybe not. We'll see. My #1 pick is def Whiteflame tho
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Depending on Austin's claim, I kinda want to lynch between Whiteflame and Cerulean now, with Austin as pick #3.
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@whiteflame
I am very skeptical of this claim
1. I just looked up this role, and that's not how it works (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Voodoo_Lady). Normally it's a mafia aligned role where there's a 50/50 shot the person who says the word dies. So unless Pie gave you some special version of the role (assuming you have it), this is complete BS. Even if you do have the role, I'm inclined to believe you were trying to get an extra kill on Lunatic, since you just said you were gonna try to bait him into saying it.
2. I'm not sure if this role counts as investigative, but it is a role that can be used to town confirm someone, at least with the version you claimed. Cerulean's claimed role outright confirms the role of someone upon his death, and Wylted's is pretty much just a cop. So I think either you or Cerulean is lying.
3. This role is super out there, so you might not even have it at all.
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My read on Whiteflame from last DP remains the same, with the addition of him VTLing Wylted at the end. I held off to see if he was gonna do it because I decided I was fine either way. It's not much but I do remember in Ace Attorney mafia he spent a long time dancing around a vote to avoid suspicion when he hammered me in Ace Attorney Mafia.
Austin moves ahead of Cerulean in my sus list because Cerulean wasn't on the wagon. Regardless, Whiteflame is the safer lynch between to two from my pov.
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@Cerulean
No lynch is fine I guess, but I don't see the usefulness either.
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I am a bulletproof. As I mentioned last DP, my character is Nasuada. The justification is that Nasuada, a strong-willed individual, survived torture on multiple occasions- specifically, torture while captured by Galbatorix and the Trial of Long Knives
I would like to lynch between Whiteflame, Austin, and Cerulean.
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@n8nrgim
They certainly are retarded and asking for guys to stare at them. Are they asking to be SA’d? No.
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@whiteflame
It's partly how I'm interpreting things elsewhere in their behavior. ADOL gets a bit of a noob pass, and Lunatic gets a town-confirmed pass. Austin doesn't get one, plus, I don't think his logic is all that good
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@whiteflame
Lunatic is town confirmed for one, an I haven't seen anything scummy about ADOL. Even if it's mostly from last DP, I still have reasons to scumread Austin.
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@whiteflame
It wasn't just his read on Cerulean last DP, it was also his read on Lunatic. Keep in mind Lunatic had posted very little at that point- this is before he was town confirmed. This DP, I just think him jumping in on Wylted like that is opportunistic. He was the second on the wagon.
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I'd choose a lynch of a VTNL most times, unsure if that applies to Wylted. Upside is the info and resolution, downside is that it's an obvious mislynch and we'll be in MYLO tomorrow. I know you guys don't see it that way, but I do. VTNLing lacks the information but we won't be in MYLO tommorrow. Have half a mind to say we'll have enough night information to cover, although I'm not sure on that. I guess if we do lynch Wylted here a play can be made in the night, so there's that.
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@WyIted
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@WyIted
That depends on the game. The CoD community and Warhammer community are more conservative compared to most, but Pokemon and Overwatch? Yeah good luck finding conservatives there. I've played the latter two.
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@ADreamOfLiberty
@AustinL0926
@Cerulean
Would any of yall be down for an alternative lynch on Austin or Whiteflame? If not, what alternative lynches do you prefer? What about a VTNL? Im not really decided on a VTNL, but I am leaning towards a lynch over a VTNL.
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@WyIted
oh no gen alpha infected you...
For an alternative lynch to work we have to figure out who at least a few of the people on my wagon would be willing to lynch and I have been almost the entire focus of this DP
i'm down
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@WyIted
Not quite sure, admittedly. My best guess is that it's simply for towncred. For example, if scum didn't roleblock someone last night, they can claim they were roleblocked.
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@WyIted
yeah, I can see an Austin and Whiteflame team. I feel like you're not considering just how much Cerulean could be be flying under the radar right now.
Are you down for Whiteflame? I'd want the claim first, but he's gonna be my preferred lynch over Austin because my top team theory is Whiteflame Cerulean. The upside is that if I'm wrong on Cerulean, we've still gotten Whiteflame, who is also Austin most likely teammate for me if he's scum.
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@Lunatic
Ok, so he claimed only his role under no pressure then. Doesn't change the fact that he claimed under no pressure. I see your point about how his teammate could have signed off on his behavior, but it's just that: A "could have."
Sure, a scum teammate could just let Wylted do whatever, but in my experience scum tends to be more collaborative.
They could also not be knowledgable on the theme, but that assumes they haven't done research. At the very least, they'd know the theme split puts their real characters in the crosshairs, and claiming the role associated with said character is silly.
Wylted could have such a playstyle like what you're describing, and he could be so aggressive that he claimed vanillizer without any input from his teammate, without a desire to claim a character. Last time I saw Wylted as scum, he did not play like that. To me, the level of aggression being asserted here is a bit far, even for Wylted, and I also think it rests on too many assumptions.
And sure, there could be some strong investigative ability hiding out there. But that's gonna vary from player to player on whether or not they hide.
My point here is, your scumread on him depends on a perfect storm of Wylted being this aggro and brazen (in multiple differents ways so this could be split further), no teammate holding him back, and a strong investigative role just hiding out.
My townread on him is just more natural. He got mislynched for failing to SoP last game, and he adjusted by claiming at the slightest thought that his role could be negative utility, and therefore SoP-worthy. He is a cop, and he really did feel like clearing you. Themesplit is of little importance because it could be anything.
I get not everything is what it seems in the game of mafia, but sometimes, the "simple truth" is actually the truth. Too many things have to line up for your case.
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ok that wasn't much of a TLDR but whatever. I could've gone into more detail too.
goodnight
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Fuck it. I'm tired and I'm not gonna finish typing this out tonight.
TLDR Version:
Cerulean- All in all, I still scumread him. For reasons I laid out in DP1, I am very dubious of the idea that Cerulean wanted us all to speculate scum's roles based on some likely characters for reasons I stated DP1. I think it's a retroactive justification. I also think his weird spec into a disjointed mafia makes no sense and is more of a "look guys I'm doing something" than anything else. Oracle is weak role and Elva isn't on the main characters list. I thought about this for a while and given the context of his behavior, I think he was banking on more people having non-main character roles and was also looking for info on who had strong PRs by way of having main-ish characters.
Whiteflame- The most plausible teammate to Cerulean. Disagreed with many of his points on Cerulean to the point where they felt weird. Like his best defense was some gigabrain play he was alleging Cerulean was doing with basically no evidence for it. He also moved Cerulean's "hey look I'm doing something" speculation forward with some theory about a lone wolf that has a snowball's chance in hell of being true. I can see this interaction as scripted, or just mutual interaction for the sake of interacting with the thread. Seriously. He can tell Casey that looking into Cerulean fishing for info is a misleading rabbit hole, but speculating about how maifa might be separated or in a lone wolf scenario isn't? He also had a point about how some people could have offbeat chracters for a specific role, and Cerulean is the only person here who has one.
Austin - He rubs me the wrong way. The thing is, I can understand his scumread on Cerulean in DP1 because it's obvious. But his sus on Wylted this DP seems a bit opportunistic. I still don't understand why we want to lynch an un-CCd cop, and I will probably be fighting it until low time, assuming he's not effectively hammered by then. Going back to DP1, I felt he was too quick to give Lunatic and Cerulean a pass early in the DP. He was he went with the same sus on Cerulean everyone had... and then said he had an early townread on him. It makes no sense to me. At that time Lunatic had made like one post that really wasn't all that much imo. When I asked, his justification was basically "muh vibes." The thing is, he did eventually vote for Cerulean and pushing him more after I called him out on it. I doubt they're on the same team. All in all, I have a stronger scumread on Cerulean than Austin. At least Austin explained his thought process a little better in this DP. The teammate here is something I'm still thinking about. In this case my top teammate would be Whiteflame, but the connection isn't super strong. It's more because I'm scumreading Whiteflame more than anything else.
ADOL - Slight townlean, almost null but it's more of a noob pass. He isn't giving too much imo, and that's fine because I don't expect much more from him. I do agree that his input isn't easy for noob scum to fake at least. Take this one with a grain of salt.
Lunatic - Basically town confirmed off Wylted's results. For him to be scum, I'd have to believe Lunatic and his partner would had to have scouted Wylted's role to know that he doesn't vanillize scum, and then pretend like Lunatic was vanillized... and that Lunatic happened to have something that made him look innocent to investigations. Granted, it's all technically possible, but unlikely. Seriously, what scum team rolecops someone's who's already claimed? I'm shocked arsonist is town in this game, but whatever.
Wylted - He is an un CC-d cop. I've read a lot of Lunatic's points, but I just don't think they are correct. Couldn't a teammate talk him out of any stupid shit he'd do, too? The scumread him I'm being asked to assume he had impulsively claimed his actual role and character as scum for towncred out of literal nowhere. I don't even think Wylted is that ballsy. I really don't. Again, it also makes sense why he claimed. He said right out of the gate that he may have negative utility, and claimed it pretty quick when Whiteflame expressed some interest. Sure you could argue he was under some small amount of pressure when he claimed Galbatorix, but he was under virtually none when he claimed vanillizer. And again, it makes sense why he behaved the way he did when you consider he was mislynched last game, in part because he didn't SoP his miller role.
Earth - Obvious town, should be fully confirmed this DP. No scum claims a verifiable role like that to blend in. He claimed it from the start as an SoP too. The odds that scum has this role are next to none imo. Looks like Pie put the negative utility in there just for game balance.
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@whiteflame
Spent a lot of time reading and thinking. Typing out full reads now.
I would like your claim, yes.
VTL Whiteflame
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