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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@WyIted
For the record, yes, I really was townreading Wyted so hard that I didn't even consider Wylted was lying. I still do townread Wylted pretty solidly... Lunatic, I see your point about Wylted's playstyle, but I'm not there with you on that. I think occam's razor says Wylted just expected everyone to believe his cop claim and a scum Wylted wouldn't. I'll keep it in the back if my mind, but I want to look at other options before revisiting this. I kinda want to take another look at Cerulean today. A claim from Whiteflame is fine too.
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@Earth
@AustinL0926
@WyIted
My character is Nasuada, I would strongly prefer not to role claim yet.
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@WyIted
wait, are you looking for a lynch or a claim first on Whiteflame? Cause I’m gonna be looking for a claim first if I get in on this
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@WyIted
Let's vote whiteflame. It's not that I blame anyone for putting me in their scum pile. Lunatic gave reasons, ADOL gave legitimate reasons. It's just that whiteflames responses have felt manufactured
Im still thinking about Cerulean (and would like to take another look at him today), but Whiteflame is on my radar to be a teammate. I’m down, lemme catch up first
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@Lunatic
I’ll give some updated thoughts and reads when I’m done catching up here. I’m still looking at my notifications
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@Lunatic
Btw he didn't claim without pressure. I pieced together that he was Galbatorix based on his role, and in my response to Austin made a point about how the role would make sense with him, then immediately after Wylted confirmed I was right (this is the behavioral argument you are asking for btw), as it made sense to me that he would need someones true name (IE Role in this context) in order to vanillize them, and he said he would use it on earth who was the only one who had claimed at that point. To me it seemed extremely convenient I happened to be right about his character, it seemed to me he had panicked and decided to just go with the claim and hope WIFOM would allow him to live, which it apparently has.
Thought about this point for a while. It’s compelling at least.
I see your point on his behavior, at least about the character claim. However, he hinted that his role was negative utility far before he was under any pressure, and all Whiteflame needed to do to get the role out of him was just ask. Why would anyone on a scum team go for this? All it does is draw attention to oneself, especially if you are claiming something that can be traced back to your character so easily, as was proven.
The only answer I can see you giving here is “for towncred,” but that doesn’t match up with the behavior. If he’s looking for towncred, why not follow through with targeting Earth? If he’s looking for something more than townread, I can see him switching targets, but that’s only if he expects to be townread afterwards… at which point I think it’s more likely he’s telling the truth and town.
How likely do you think it is that an investigative ability wouldn’t CC him here? Cause if I’m an investigative ability at this point, I would be CCing Wylted here.
As for the other half of that post, yes you are correct, arguing about your role is pointless now. I was just shocked that Wylted was outright calling you town because I hadn’t read his post about being a cop yet. I figured he would only be targeting you if he scumread you at the time.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
We don't know that for sure. Lunatic claimed that.
Wylted confirmed that Lunatic was his target, which was after Lunatic went after him. If Lunatic were mafia, he wouldn’t know he was targeted to begin with, since Wylted’s role doesn’t vanillize mafia.
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@Lunatic
@WyIted
Wow that’s actually crazy. Given how hard Lunatic was pushing Wylted before Wylted even announced his target and rationale… I’d have to believe there was some crazy scripted coordination for Lunatic to be scum. Wylted’s results clearly weren’t interfered with since Lunatic lost his powers, and Wylted has yet to be CC’d, so he’s probably not scum either.
Nevermind on all that I guess.
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@Lunatic
You are only considering his motivations as town. Why? As scum he alos had major reason to target me would he not?
I mean he would have a reason if he felt threatened by your thoughts on him yesterday. I’m considering his motivation as town first because I’ve been behaviorally townreading him since he claimed with no pressure. Granted, his role isn’t complete negative utility to me (so there’s a chance he really didn’t have a reason so SoP claim), but I can see why he did considering last game.
Im not goonna argue what roles would or would not exist in the game when I literally know my role and the theme extremely well. Wylted is saying I am town. What say you to that?
???
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I’m gonna see if I can read and double check what Lunatic is saying here later
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@Lunatic
In literally every interaction with Eragon, its clear that Murtagh doesn't want to be in service to Galbatorix and is there against his will. His character is kind of tragic for this, and the Varden imprison him almost immediately in the first book when they reach Farthen Dur.
Durza technically was forced to work for galbatorix too, but I'd say that character was evil regardless of being forced to or not. You can see that from the opening prologue when he kills a couple of Urgals just for failing him. Durza is just bad in general.
Hm. I guess that makes sense.
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He never indicated that, and note I was THE ONLY one scumreading him, so the only reason for him to do this was for omgus, which he wasn't doing publicly. So he was afraid of what I could be and knew I would proably target him.
You have a slight point in that he didn’t omgus you publicly, but he clearly was scumreading you, otherwise he wouldn’t have vanillized you.
Unless he targeted someone else and was redirected, at which point he’s town anyways for the scum team targeting him.
If you knew the books, you would know this is the perfect role for Eragon actually, brisngr was the first word of power he learned in the books, and also grants him an OP sword towards the end of the series as he discovers is part of his swords true name.
Ok but from a game design standpoint, I don’t see it. It’s pretty unusual and when Ive seen it, it was scum sided. Seems op for town in a role mad game too, when there’s so many other roes as well.
Tell ya what. It is a ballsy fake claim if you’re going for it, but I’m gonna need a damn good reason for it to be town here.
He never stated scum reading me once, where as my vote was on him for the latter half of the day phase. Why are you buddying wylted so hard?
He literally claimed with no pressure in a move that I can only interpret as him learning from last game. I’ve been townreading him for a while because of it. Nothing rubbed me the wrong way about him either. I’m going to repeat my question from last DP: Is there anything behavioral on Wylted that you were basing your thoughts on him on?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
i guess Durza is on the table if it’s good v evil yeah
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@Lunatic
Sure he was forced, but he played an antagonistic role for a long time. How much does the series really emphasize him as a hero?
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@Lunatic
Sure he was forced, but he played an antagonistic role for a long time. How much does the series really emphasize him as a hero?
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@Lunatic
Wylted is 100% scum. For one, he vanillized me.
He probably scumread you.
And I guess since I am vanillized I will just full claim, as there is literally no reason not to. I am Eragon, IE the main character and protagonist. Because of my sword Brisngr has the power the ignite flames with its true name, I am the arsonist. I can prime a player each night and can ignite it once only during the game. Last night I primed wylted because I thought he was scum, but I'll not be able to kill him now since I am vanilla.
Arsonist? I very skeptical of that. That seems like a batshit crazy role to put in this game.
And here you say how you targeted Wylted off a scumread. Why can’t he do the same to you?
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Would anyone here call Murtagh a villain? I would say he is, although he breaks free of his enslavement at the end.
If we call Murtagh a villain here, I definitely think it’s possible for Galbatorix to be town as well. I just don’t think there’s any reason to say Wylted’s scum, not even in the slightest.
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Would anyone here call Murtagh a villain? He kind of is, although he breaks free of his enslavement at the end.
If we call Murtagh a villain here, I definitely think it’s possible for Galbatorix to be town as well. I just don’t think there’s any reason to say Wylted’s scum, not even in the slightest.
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If the game ends soon I will
I’ve been posting during the 3rd quarter. I’m watching this whole 4th one though
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@Lunatic
I don’t know to what extent you scumread Wylted, but is your read all just based on his character claim, or is it more behavioral?
To me, he looks townie because he claimed with no pressure and it was because he was thinking there was negative utility to it. It looks like he’s avoiding his mistake from last game. I’m not sure that compulsive vanillize is sop, but I can see why he’d do it anyway.
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@Cerulean
Oh I missed that from Lunatic. Maybe there’s a slight point there, but at any rate I can understand why he’d look for it then if he’s working with his theory, considering he openly thought about it long pretty quickly. Still always good to double check. I will say that I do think Wylted is obviously townie by behavior and I don’t really understand what Lunatic sees.
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If it wasn’t obvious already, I do support a Cerulean lynch. I think was fishing for information and switched to looking at characters once he got pushed off that. I really do not like his logic about why he went for Post #7 at all. The fact that his character is apparently not main is a little sus. Given his behavior, I’m going to have to assume he was anticipating more people to have offbeat characters, or just did not want to get locked into fake claiming one. May also connect him to Whiteflame, who iirc made some point about offbeat characters being expected. Note: I am defining offbeat characters as characters not in the important characters list on the wiki.
I think Wylted and Earth are obvious town, more Earth than Wylted.
Lunatic is slight town for me. I really don’t think there’s much of a case for him. I like how he’s asking questions about stuff (specifically his questioning of Wylted, even if I townread Wylted), and his general contributions elsewhere.
Casey is reasonably town; I’m not ready to say solid town yet. I like how she pointed out what Cerulean was doing, and I think she’s been generally helpful, love the vibes.
ADOL is null.
Austin is a conditional scumlean if we are wrong on Creulean. I don’t think he’s explaining his thoughts well enough on his a couple of his townreads. Bit of a vibe thing as well. Null otherwise.
My other top scumread is Whiteflame. The vibes on him are fine, but the defense of Cwruean is weird to me. I firmly disagree with a few of his points.
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@Cerulean
I really don’t think scum has an easy way of guessing that.
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Sugar Bowl is starting, be back at halftime.
Go Irish.☘️
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@Cerulean
Oh there is his analysis on Earth’s claim too. Forgot about that for a sec
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@Cerulean
It really is just the double check. I don’t see the incentive from the scum team pov.
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As for Lunatic, I can see why he pushed for more information out of Wylted. It’s always good to double check these things. I don’t remember how often Pie has an offbeat theme split, so I’ll flip through the archives rq. Regardless, Wylted’s justification tracks imo and I behaviorally read him as town. I feel like Wylted’s town behavior should be semi obvious, but Lunatic wanting to double check Wylted makes me think this may be town v town. I’m more confident in a townread of Wylted than Lunatic.
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@Cerulean
Agree to disagree? With a series like this where there's only maybe two dozen or so possible characters and even fewer that make sense with a theme split, you can get a reasonable sense of at least the vicinity of what might be in play.
Not any more than what we could easily guess going into this game. We know it’s role madness, so mafia likely has a JOAT of some kind to counter all the roles town has. In most game mafia has a roleblocker so that should be a given, and they should have something to mess with investigative abilities. What else could you possibly get from there? All further speculation based on characters isn’t super reliable. Regardless, it should be noted that most people speculating with you, without that clarification, would be using their roles because it is the best method.
And besides that, speculation isn't just about being right, this sort of thing can also be used for social reads, yes?
I’ll give you that I guess.
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@Cerulean
I thought it was self-evident.
It really wasn’t.
Knowing and applying your own role doesn't help speculation as much as the possible characters do.
I wholeheartedly disagree. There are many aspects of any character that can be interpreted as different roles, and mods have been known to stretch justifications to make a character fit a certain role.
If I’m reading into what I think scum has, I’m reading into my own role. If it’s something that can hinder scum, I can reasonably assume they have something to counter.
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@Lunatic
@AustinL0926
Do you see any valid reason for him to not reveal his character at this point? The way I see it, that role can be extremely anti town, maybe can be pro town like you said, but the character and justification will do wonders for me especially being familiar with the series.
this is a fair point and I can see why Lunatic pushed this. The thing is, I would sooner believe Galbatorix is a town character than Wylted is scum. He claimed with no pressure at the slightest possibility of someone thinking his role is negative utility. This doesn’t look like a vallsy fake claim, it looks like learning from game to game
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@Cerulean
My intention was that speculation would be based on characters that might be in play. For instance, Galbatorix, the main villain of the series, doesn't really show up until the later books- so that role could be something that grows stronger over time or activates in late-game.
That might be fair, but why didn’t you say that in Post #7?
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@AustinL0926
Kinda, yeah. Most off meta, he feels different than his town game, it's a lot less proactive in behavioral analysis.
Yeah.
Luna's efforts would help town for sure, dunno why it wouldn't?
Not really the character list. I don’t think it’s super helpful. It’s all stuff anyone can look up, it doesn’t help read anyone.
I see his push on Wylted, that’s a bit more helpful, even if I’m not sure o agree with it.
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I’ll post some reads when I get back from this round of golf. I don’t know if I’ll be there for end of the DP since I’m going to a football game later today as well, but I’ll have the time in between to contribute I think
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@Casey_Risk
Anyway, what do you think of the current situation with Cerulean. Also, what are your thoughts on Austin and Lunatic. I’m indecisive on them.
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@Casey_Risk
Well my year started out being scared as shit and walking into my uncles’ hotel room to make sure Uncle #2 was there (he drove to NOLA and met us as the airport).
He was on Bourbon Street for the new year. Thankfully he left hours before the guy in the truck came.
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@whiteflame
??? I think you’re reading this weirdly.
Post #7 from Cerulean is where the idea is floated that we all speculate on what scum has. Since we’d obviously be basing our speculations on our abilities, we’d be unknowingly outing our roles.
The only real chances town has to mislead scum here are to speculate something that mafia has that is not based on what the townie actually has, at which point the point of discussion is ruined. I highly doubt that we were all subversively being asked to mislead scum by speculating what they have based on what we don’t actually have. Simplest explanation is that he was just fishing for information.
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@whiteflame
I'm pointing out that what he was doing doesn't necessarily feed info to scum, at least not in as straightforward a manner as you're saying. It would not be the first time someone had lied about their role in an attempt to get a CC on scum.
I don’t see how’s baiting scum into any sort of CC. He literally just started the DP asking people to speculate on some roles. He didn’t ask people to reveal their roles, he asked people for their thoughts that would likely reveal something about their roles. Obviously scum isn’t gonna push for information too directly. That is completely different from what you did last game, where hid a power you had from scum in your claim.
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