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@ILikePie5
You call it OMGUS, I call it accusingsomeone who's hard claimhunting like a bozo if he's town. If the OMGUS, is right, there's no problem, now is there?
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@Cerulean
Mhar, is there anything in particular about Pie's reasoning that makes you think it's not genuine rather than a villager deathtunneled on you?
1. How bad his logic is. I've explained everything I've done and I've shown that I've done it before in previous games when I'm town. Let's honest here, do you really think someone can fake all this? I didn't do it last game but was accused last game by Austin. Second, if I was scum I would've been paying more attention to the point where I wouldn't have forgotten/got confused about Wylted's claim in the first place. Tired as I may have been, everyone's claim would have been fresh in my mind. If were scum, I'd be hunting claims as hard as he is.
2. His claimhunting. He started with Wylted for sketchy reasoning, and is looking so hard for claims in a game where there is no themesplit and all that can be gathered from analyzing characters is the PR. It benefits scum more than any other faction.
3. Two games ago I said my claim would do more harm than good. He backed off then... why isn't he now?
4. There's a TP in this game. I wouldn't be surprised at a TP lyncher.
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@WyIted
he is trying to change his character and claim he was joking
Look me dead in the eyes and tell me this is a role that Lunatic would put in his games.
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@ILikePie5
I don't trust you and I'm curious about your claimhunting. Your logic is BS and I think you know it. Are you scum or TP? Trying to figure that out.
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@Savant
@WyIted
@JoeBob
@Casey_Risk
@Owen_T
My character is Jack Shit and my role is the Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Laser Beans out of its Ass.
Get off my wagon; it’s only gonna do more harm than good.
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@ILikePie5
So you’re saying in the same post, you “forgot” that Wylted had already character claimed when in that same post you acknowledged that he had already character claimed? That makes no sense.
Call it nonsensical or whatever you want. It’s the same thing Austin said of me last game.
Keep in mind I am thinking as type. When you combined a tried Mharman with a slew of posts to look at and events to follow, I am going to screw up my thought process in the middle of writing a post. So yeah, it can happen in happen in the same post.
Are you though? You lynched your top townread last game just for information. Getting a claim from a slight townread shouldn’t be that big of a deal.
*In a time scramble where my top scumread wasn’t available for a lynch, and my only option was to look at the two wagons and decide which one would prove my scumread. We are not in a time scramble now.
That’s not even close to what is happening right now imo.
Yes it is. Exact same shit, people reading too far into simple mistake I made and erroneously scumreading me off it.
If you want to talk about slanted versions of events…
He’s claiming he he didn’t know Wylted had character claimed while acknowledging he did in the same exact post he made.
… then you should mention to everyone you’re pinging that I’m saying my mistake was because I missed/forgot details and got confused when I wasn’t thinking clearly (again, late at night).
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@Earth
I don't understand your Owen read. This is Owen's second game and he was mislynched DP1 on his first. You can't exactly base behavior off of that.
Are you saying he's adjusted from last game and I'm reading too much into it? Maybe, but there's a lot of things I mentioned that seem off to me. How much of that is all just from me misreading his adjustments? I don't think all of it is.
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@Earth
@Casey_Risk
Please do not pressure me for my claim.
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@ILikePie5
@Cerulean
This is a lie. Mharman said this in the exact same post:I want more depth on your reasoning as to why you think we should get his claim. Why is his character strange to you? And what's to stop Wylted from having a good fake claim in this game, where it can be anything that interests him? Do you really think he's so bad at fake claiming that he would fail to come up with a good one here? Are there any additional reasons to get his claim that you have in mind?So Mharman did know that Wylted had already character claimed at that point and that I was asking for a role claim from Wylted.
Dude. It was late at night. My brain wasn't exactly firing on all cylinders. So yeah, I can forget stuff in one paragraph and remember it the next. The paragraph I cited earlier, when read does show I was thinking of the consequences of Wylted outing his character, meaning that my whole logic on not wanting to claim was taken from my normal thought process on getting claims, forgetting that he had claimed.
Then, when I went to read back your post and so I could ask questions at the end of that post of mine because I'm wondering if you see something in Wylted that I don't, I read all your concerns on him and got reminded of the character claim and asked that question at the end, without thinking about how that would change my reasoning in the first paragraph, because I wasn't think about my own reasoning, because I was tired and not thinking clearly. That's why those two paragraphs are a contradiction, not because I'm "lying my ass off" but because I wasn't able to think clearly about things and am prone to missing details and confusing myself when that happens.
But Mharman never said that he doesn’t want to pursue Wylted because he slight town read him. He said he doesn’t want to pursue Wylted because it will help scum sort out who has the stronger PRs from the weaker ones, which implies that Mharman knew Wylted was town to begin with.
A slight town read is enough of a town read to make me not want a claim. Yes, I am that cautious.
He was fine lynching his top townread (Owen) last game DP1 just to get information for the next DP, which is fine cause it was last minute ig, but directly contradicts the cautious nature he’s presenting here. He also just blatantly lied about not knowing that Wylted had already claimed.
Cautious nature? Dude we're in DP1 and we're all trying to figure this shit out. You've seen me play cautious and conservative before, many times. Even when I was confident Casey was scum two games ago, and Austin was scum last game, I still didn't pressure people to quicklynch. When the rest of town wanted me to hammer Casey in CoC, I still had questions. When Whiteflame said he was hesitant to vote Austin, I said that's fair.
How are you going to say that I'm contradicting my past behavior over a situation, that you yourself say was a different situation (last minute scramble)?
I think Mharman scumslipped and is not trying to back track (and in the process is lying his ass off). At least help me pressure him for a full claim
Austin said the same thing of me last game after I posted this. Was that also me backtracking and lying my ass off? No, it was me explaining my behavior after I got confused and made a mistake.
I misread your post when you said he wanted his role claim because I forgot and got confused, and forgot Wylted had claimed. By the time I remembered, I didn't think about how it should change my thought process. This is similar, if not the same to how I got confused on Austin and Savant in last game, as explained in the post I linked above.
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@ILikePie5
Post 121, he says that he doesn’t support the Wylted train because it’s going to help scum get identify PRs, which doesn’t make sense at all unless he knows Wylted is town.
I don’t know who’s what for sure. But I do townread him. If I think someone is town, why the hell should I push for a full claim on him?
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Ok so I’m an idiot and completely misread the sentence where you said full claim. I also forgot that the Billy Mitchell claim was Wylted’s while we were talking about it.
I don’t know how I managed to do that (imma just blame the fact that I was online at 1am), but you can see this when I say:
As for the Wylted train, I don't think it's that great of an idea to get his claim. All that's going to do is help scum sort out who has the stronger PRs from the weaker ones. Sure, they'd be doing a lot of guesswork, but I'll be educated guesswork, and I'm not comfortable giving them more information to work with.
… implying that I am fearful that scum might use Wylted’s character claim to figure out if he has a strong or weak PR.
My bad.
By the way, I’m still not convinced on getting a full claim from Wylted. I never said “we should never get claims”… that’s putting words into my mouth. If we have a massive FOS on someone, that’s fair. Otherwise, I’m not a fan of this claim hunting spree you’re tryna go on.
I don’t have an FOS in Wylted. I never said I was down for Wylted’s claim or that I changed my mind. All I said was that Wylted sucking at role claiming was a compelling point, at that it made me think about it.
However I’ve decided I’m not going to pursue him. For one, I don’t trust Pie. Two, in giving his claim out so easily, he gave scum some information already… a full claim would make things way easier on them.
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@ILikePie5
I'm not full claiming.
As for Wylted, I think about it. For now I'm going to bed.
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@ILikePie5
And the things I asked don’t make it any easier. A Google search will have hundreds of things, but they’re going to be harder to justify for scum.
That's fair, but that may also depend on thing your character is from.
So you don’t want to get a claim from anyone? Why?
Not yet. A full character claim will make things easier for the scum team. Unless we have a good FOS on someone, I say we shouldn't pressure a claim out of them.
No one knows him. He’s not famous by any means. And is he truly a villainous villain? I don’t think so.
Many of the characters here are going to be niche. They're either selected by the people in this game or by Lunatic, based on our/Lunatic's interests. I've heard of Billy Mitchell though. I would say he's pretty villainous.
He sucks at fake role claiming, so he’ll either claim something crazy or something that will likely be CCed somehow.
Oh you mean fake role claiming when you say he sucks. This is a compelling point, I'll give you that.
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@JoeBob
I would expect third party to be in the 12-player games, not the 9.
I'm not convinced of that. I'm assuming there's two mafiosos, so that's a 9v2 with no third party. If we're going by the magic number rule of mislynches that I mentioned earlier, the number would be 2, like a 9-player game. Here, however, town could survive 3 mislynches, one above the magic number. A third party, however, should put the town back in the number. An 8v2v1 means town can survive 2 mislynches with 2 scum and no more, unless a they get help from the third party in some way.
The only reason I'm not sure if we have one is because I know sometimes a setup may be better if you let town go one above the magic number in terms of how many mislynches they can withstand, usually in situations where the scum team has a lot of power in the setup. Lunatic was the one who taught me this rule btw, iirc. I don't know what he currently thinks of the idea, or whether the setup he has here would warrant one.
I do know, however, that we shouldn't dismiss the idea. I don't think we should let possible third parties distract us to the point where we're not doing enough scumhunting, but I do think we should keep the idea in mind.
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NOTICE: I'm playing this game while trying to gather screenshots for the archives, in case this site goes down again for whatever reason in the future.
If you have a question for me, are answering a question of mine, or see something that you think demands my attention, please ping me. Otherwise, just let me catch up on my own time.
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@ILikePie5
I'm just going to say this: The thing my character is from doesn't have a whole lot of notable villains. I'll consider telling you either the thing they're from or the year they were born. I won't give you both.
As for the Wylted train, I don't think it's that great of an idea to get his claim. All that's going to do is help scum sort out who has the stronger PRs from the weaker ones. Sure, they'd be doing a lot of guesswork, but I'll be educated guesswork, and I'm not comfortable giving them more information to work with.
I want more depth on your reasoning as to why you think we should get his claim. Why is his character strange to you? And what's to stop Wylted from having a good fake claim in this game, where it can be anything that interests him? Do you really think he's so bad at fake claiming that he would fail to come up with a good one here? Are there any additional reasons to get his claim that you have in mind?
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Additionally, there's the question of third party. I'm not sure if we have a third party, let alone what the third party could be. However, I think Wylted or Austin could be a third party, given some of their actions. Maybe Pie, but I'm not ready to put him on the same level as Wylted and Austin just yet. And of course there's the inactives/barely actives.
I'm not reading Cerulean, Casey, or Owen as a TP. Pie is on the fringes of this group as well for me; he's just an in-between.
Just something for us to keep in mind.
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Alright so here are my early reads:
Cerulean - Town: Good vibes in general, trying to supply information and helping to get the game moving forward. The big thing I notice is the questions they're asking: They're all the right ones; I would be asking them if I was in their position. I can also tell just by the questions being asked that they've done their research. I also really like their interaction with Owen.
Casey - Slight Town: Mostly good vibes. I like how they're using the whole "let's limit fake claims" idea that Pie and I have been using recently. I kinda feel like giving the franchise may be a bit much (and therefore "blending in behavior", but given that Super Mario has a lot of villains, I think it's fine.
Wylted - Ever so Slight Town: The meaningless fluff/borderline schizoposting combined with the actual gameplay is pretty normal for him. He's erratic as usual, but there's a method to his madness. The thing that does stick out as weird to me, however, is the callouts of Casey's possible character. I don't know if that's Casey's character, but I'm not sure what Wylted is trying to accomplish with that. I also don't know why he's hesitant to FOS someone he thinks might be a godfather either. It's offputting, but everything else makes me read him as town. I'll need to keep a closer eye on him.
Pie - Neutral: I feel like he's talking the whole "let's limit scum's fake claims" thing a little far. There's only so many hints as to what your character is before it gets too easy for mafia to guess. Some franchises/IRL things have enough villains to facilitate asking "where's your character from", and some don't. Baiting people into making a guess easier is something scum Pie would do. However, the other side of the coin is that a lot of what he's saying seems like a continuation of Casey's idea after reading the DP. I've also seen Pie come up with plans that he strongly believes are correct as town, and this fits that. All in all, I'm not entirely sure what to make of it. I need to see more.
Barney, Savant, and Earth - Null: Not much going on here. Nothing, in Savant's case.
Joebob - Neutral: I don't like how he's trying to guess Wylted's character. The only thing stopping me from having an FOS here is the fact that he might've been joking around with Wylted. Otherwise, not much going on here.
Austin - Ever so Slight Scum: I don't like how he claimed so early with no pressure. It's something he did last game while he faking just about everything as town. The problem here is that I feel like he should learn from last game, and not do stuff like that. So that's already ringing alarm bells in my head. I suppose he could be trying a new gambit in a different way that he thinks won't run into the same problems as last one. Another thing is that I could very much see a point in Don Corleone being godfather. However, why would he claim that so openly if he were scum? There is no theme split, so maybe he thinks he can come up with a good fake claim and be safe? And yet, because of last game, I'm hesitant to have a harder scum read on him. Another person I need to keep an eye on.
Owen - Scum: Everything he's been doing reeks of blend in behavior. It could be just noobiness, but it feels a bit scummy and I think we shouldn't excuse all of his behavior just because he's new- I think we should start slowly raising our expectations. Last game, it felt like we had to guide him and he'll start doing things on his own a little bit as he learns. This game, it feels like he's telling us to carry him. Post #37 and 39 are standouts to me. Earlier, Cerulean asked Owen for his thoughts, which he seems to have ignored. Then there's his interaction with Pie... it's so weird. Asking for a favorite color and then asking why his question hasn't been answered looks like noob scum trying to mount an eventual accusation... when confronted he just gives the smartass answer of "you told me to ask questions." I know this could all be fluff too, but isn't a little late for fluff? I think it is. I don't think his later "read" on Cerulean makes much sense either. It's something Badger once correctly called me out on... the ol' "could be this, could be that" thing without giving much of a reason as to why it could be "this or that." Nothing he has done so far sits well with me.
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@Cerulean
I am mildly curious about the general alignment layout of this game (ie 9 Town 2 Mafia, 8 Town 3 Mafia, 8 Town 2 Mafia 1 3p/Neutral, etc.), although there's not much we can do beyond speculating about it at this point.
I would expect a 9v2 or a 8v2v1. 8v3 is very scumsided. The way I was taught, town should be able to survive at least as many mislynches as there are mafia.
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@Casey_Risk
I say we all state whether our character is real or fictional. I'll start: my villain is fictional.
Mine is real.
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@Cerulean
Oh and yeah because a lot of our games tend to be role madness, mechanical analysis plays a bigger role than in MU (I think). But don’t count out behavioral analysis; it’s still far more important. Duh
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@Cerulean
You can expect a box of chocolates.
Jokes aside, it’ll probably pick up as the day goes on, and DP1 we have a lot of craziness as we all try to figure out what is going on.
Last game DP1 started off kinda slow, then picked up really quickly. We then had theories floating around but couldn’t connect the dots, and we were way too slow to try and settle on something. So we ended up panicking and getting a chaotic last minute wagon that ended in a mislynch with five minutes remaining.
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@Casey_Risk
In UPick Mafia, we started by having everyone reveal their chosen characters. Should we do the same here?
No. There’s no theme split so there’s no point. All that would do is help the scum team guess who has the strongest power roles.
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@Lunatic
In. Let’s try to get more than nine.
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@Lunatic
Yeah I’m not about to go for any policy lynches on millers
Maybe that’s why Austin tried that gambit
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@Lunatic
When was policy lynching millers a thing?
I don’t remember anything like that
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@Lunatic
it would be cool to see some games over 9 players
Fr. I have a 17-player setup based on Pokemon Legends: Arceus that has been laying around for two years
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@Lunatic
Wait, so our characters are going to be villains we submitted? I thought you were just going to choose one villain from each player and then randomly give them out
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@Lunatic
Would love to. Want to grab some screenshots of some things first so I have them in case the site goes down for good
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@Lunatic
Backups for now. I’ll decide if I want to hard commit later… dming you my villain choices in Discord
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@Lunatic
Fair enough. I don’t blame myself for this result though; I blame Austin. He’s not bad, but that whole thing was ridiculous. I may have been able to catch the whole miller thing if I thought more about the logical consequences of him being town and trying all that, but that’s something I’m only going to blame myself for if I don’t find it in a future game.
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@ILikePie5
@Casey_Risk
Great setup btw. I think it’s still a bit townsided because of how much confirmable stuff town has, which forces mafia to pick between trying to counter the confirmability or town’s utility.
But like a seesaw balanced on the center bar, you can place on object one side and the seesaw wouldn’t tilt either way, as long as the object is close enough to the center. No one gets it perfect and this setup is the quality I like to see.
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That was pretty dumb. Austin, please don’t do that again.
Still, I wonder if that read was findable for me. I had all the right reasons for Austin not being Dreamer, I just interpreted all of the intentions as scummy. It makes sense now: Austin wasn’t doing the gambit properly because he wasn’t in the mindset of an actual dreamer, not because he was scum, but because he was a miller trying to get NKed. Something I’ll keep in mind if anyone else wants to try something that stupid.
I don’t think the plan was that good though. Even if mafia believed the dreamer they wouldn’t have needed to kill it, given that they could just disturb it and kill someone else. This was always going to leave Austin in a position where he had to either double down, or full claim for real immediately and hope town believes him. I think if his first post of DP2 was the full miller claim before I locked on to him, I may have believed him.
I think we could’ve gotten Whiteflame and Earth had that not happened… I wouldn’t have as much FOS on me and neither would Austin. I read both Earth and Whiteflame’s souls and incorrectly believed one of them had to be town because of my read on Austin.
But they, that’s the positive for me. I feel like my town play is improving a lot and I took a monumental leap forward from DP1 to DP2 of this game alone. I’m excited to see how my next town game goes.
GG.
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@Savant
But who knows, maybe one of them will scumslip.
Did you not read my argument that Pie copypasted? Bro.
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@Savant
Then odds of Whiteflame being town and misreading the situation so bad he mislynches me are far higher then the odds of Austin being town.
Do not.
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@Savant
Also, if Whiteflame hammers me, get Austin first. He is the far safer target.
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If Whiteflame’s the teammate I’m probably dead. Unless someone from my wagon flips their vote.
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I don’t really care that much to be honest.
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@WyIted
When I asked if I could self doc she said “I’ll allow it”
Earlier I asked her if lawyers could self/lawyer if they were in this game.
She said something like “it depends on the specific game, but in general I would let them”….
Was hoping she’d say no outright so I could put away Lunatic’s fears
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I deleted the Google doc, so now you have to use Pie's copy-paste.
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