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More about Whiteflame and Earth:
Earth: I don't like how hard they're defending Austin and parroting him. However, if he's town it's an OMGUS... which also kinda makes sense. Looking back, my appeal to his behavior isn't that strong. I guess a strengthener would hang back a bit more, and he's right that Ozark was a long ass time ago. I'll admit that reference was weak on my part.
However, I feel like the reasoning for Godot is weird. Yes, he makes Phoenix Wright a better lawyer in the lore... but coffee? Sure, but it also reads like something that was added to bolster a fake claim. Although reading into specific wording in a role PM might be a bit too far in the mod psyche department. I don't know if he claimed strengthener because he is and town, or if he fake claimed it because he knew there's a redirector in the game. Like I said, I can see Casey adding or leaving it out in the game.
Lunatic sees something good in Earth. But how much do I trust his reads, given he's scumreading me? I will admit, strengthening Lunatic is a good decision from Earth's stated POV. But it's also very obvious and can be fake.
Whiteflame: I had a massive FOS on him in DP1 for refusing to hammer with only a few hours left. Last game, he saw Casey get suddenly latched onto after he was late to jump on the Pie wagon, which may have influenced his decision to be hesitant this time. He even said he needed to be prepared for town to latch onto previously townread/under-the-rader scum so quickly. You can see him be hesitant on me this DP. On the other hand, I don't think he would be scumread for hammering me since so many people scumread me now. But maybe he's afraid? Scum can be patient and wait. But then again, giving me time is something I would do if I were him. I gave Austin time.
Then there's the whole magistrate redirect thing. Whiteflame got selected, which looks sus, but could also easily be WIFOM. It makes sense with the idea that Austin thought he'd be townread coming into day, and scum Whiteflame would be less confident and looking for insurance they both made it to DP3. Maybe they're relying on town to overthink the fact that the anti-vote protection is on Whiteflame? Furthermore, Austin clearly didn't expect Lunatic and I to be confirmed today... so that would mean they'd have a higher pool of people that could have given the redirect to Whiteflame that could be accused.
And why did he use his soft claim to say Savant was town last DP? That seems pretty townie. But you don't have to be town to vouch for a townie. It can be done for town cred. I guess it would bolster Austin's argument that he "cLeARed SLoTs" and could, in no way be scum. Austin did go for Savant because he was self destructing under pressure, so maybe they didn't expect for one of them to have to make the argument that Savant is scum to escape POE? But then why is Whiteflame still somewhat defending Savant (I think?)? I guess he doesn't need to attack Savant, if at the end of the day, he was going to mislynch me.
I'll go 55/45 for Whiteflame being the teammate. There's even scum arguments for either, but I think the case for Earth being town is stronger than the one for Whiteflame.
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@WyIted
Just tell me where to vote so I don't have to read all of that.
Bruh. Obviously for Austin this DP.
Who is the scum team?
The teammate is between Whiteflame and Earth, but I've been going back and forth and am not settled on either.
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@Earth
@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@Savant
@WyIted
Post #379.
Read every sentence.
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@WyIted
Was explaining as to why I was taking so long.
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It was too big for DART when I pasted it. I figured that would be the case.
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@Lunatic
Thought for a while if I should hammer myself because I was convinced Whiteflame was the teammate and that my case would be so compelling that you'd get both Austin and him in DPs 3 and 4.
But then I realized my case on Whiteflame wasn't as airtight as I thought. So I rejected the idea because I can't, in good conscience, hammer myself so Austin could be lynched DP3, only for town to have to pick between Earth and Whiteflame
Had a whole final thing typed out but had to delete it
Typing my rebuttal rn it'll crush him trust
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@AustinL0926
I guess we'll see if he has the balls to do so as scum
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@Earth
@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@Savant
@WyIted
Alr I'm back and abt to prove my case for good
I'd like to note that Earth and Whiteflame are not confirmed town... if you were hesitant to vote so that Austin could make his arguments, you should the same thing for me.
I'm at L-1 ffs
I'll be consistent. I recommend Savant and Wylted unvote for sec
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Your arms might be too short to box with the god
Who live his life without the pressures of a constant facade
I pray for peace, but if a n**** cease these positive vibes
A Falcon 9 inside my pocket, bitch, this rocket gon' fly
Now it's poppin' outside like the top of July
My text flooded with the hunger for a toxic reply
I'm hesitant, I love my brother, but I'm not gonna lie
I'm powered up for real, that shit would feel like swattin' a fly
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@AustinL0926
Mharman's actions are dripping with scum agenda. I've been hard townsiding all game. Lynch that scumbag.
Just wanted to check one last time. Getting angry and aggressive like last night’s self destruct, are we?
Ya know, in that post of 15 or so points you made, you scumsplipped by contradicting yourself and you don’t even realize it
This will be light work
See you tomorrow
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@AustinL0926
Lmao Im as tired as you and will crush your bs tomorrow. For now just sit tight, before you self destruct again like last night LOL
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You know, I wonder if we may not have caught Austin if it weren’t for zjoebob’s flip
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Tornado warning is over, but I am tired and wondering if I had a confirmation bias of my own about Earth
I’m guessing that the scum team thought Joebob was the doctor… but in which case, why not kill Earth?
Unless they bought Earth’s claim and decided they didn’t know if the doctor was going to protect Lunatic or Earth… doesn’t have to be a doctor that they were reading I suppose but that’s not super relevant
Of course of all of this goes out the window if Earth is scum and fake claiming strengthener
I can see both Casey including and leaving out a strengthener
I partially like the justification since Godot does test Phoenix Wright to see if he’s worthy, and battles him in court as a prosecutor to make him a better defense attorney. The coffee part is a little weird.
Earth’s behavior is off to me though. The parroting of Austin, the hanging back, the sudden and stubborn defense of Austin
And then there’s Whiteflame. I’m was liking him more but it’s not super clear.
Consider this: Joebob was also a great mislynch target for today given his hard push on Owen. If scum was willing to kill him, they may have been content to eliminate him from POE, and therefore the scum team is probably had at least one person who felt they’d be easily townread coming into this DP. Which means that redirecting Savants magistrate onto Whiteflame is a great way of ensuring both scum make it to DP3.
The people I can see being confident they’d be town read coming into today are Austin, Lunatic, and Wylted. Of those I town read Lunatic and Wylted. This road leads to Austin, but it implicates Whiteflame as the teammate.
Alternatively, the scum team could’ve asked for cop before the game started and been told it’s not here. At which point they’d be less scared of Lunatic. But why not fake claim cop in this case? It’s a decent claim given that no investigative role would cc DP1, but that doesn’t stop future CCs. Claiming a weaker investigative role would be an option for them if they knew cop wasn’t in the game but figured there’d still be some weaker investigative roles in game… this road also leads to Austin. It’s also not mutually exclusive to any path of logic that might be taken to conclude that Earth or WHiteflame is the teammate
I still think Austin is guaranteed scum. But the debate of the teammate still isn’t over.
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@Lunatic
look, the point is the only way I could miss your PR is if I was town, and focusing less hard on reading other’s PRs because I was tunneled on the idea that Austin was the only investigator in the game because I believed him at the time.
Which is the case.
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@Casey_Risk
I think I’ll be fine. Thought I would have to be done for the night, but now that the whole family + pets are in the basement, I should be good to post.
The plan is to chill in the basement and if the town sirens start blaring, we all hunker in the basement closet.
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Ok so I’m the basement with my whole family and pets… I think I should be fine to post on my phone from the basement…
I mean, the rest of my family does seem pretty chill about it. Except my little sister
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@whiteflame
Ok I moved from my pc to the basement I’m on my phone….
I probably shouldn’t be typing in a mafia game right now…
I’ll return when the storm clears
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@Lunatic
It's nice to hear that you respect my play more than I do.
I think my scum play is far stronger than my town play. I don't think my town play is as bad as I was saying DP2 of last game, but I don't think I play town all that well. I only think I am now starting to learn to read others, at least affiliation wise. I would call DP1 and NP1 of this game a learning experience.
Reading into and using PRs for me is easy, I've done that plenty as scum. You were witness to it in MMA Mafia iirc (there was another game I won as scum that you hosted shortly after... was it that one? idk).
But if I'm so good at reading PRs (and am as good of a player as you respect), how would I miss that you were an investigator if I were scum? If I was scum and looking at the game, I would have killed you in the night. Remember: I am claimed doctor. This means that if I were fake-claiming, the role would have had to have been confirmed not in the game by Casey. I wouldn't fear you'd get doctored, nor would I fear something like a jailkeeper since a jailkeeper might be hesitant to rb you if they were reading you as investigative. I wouldn't fear any bodyguard either, since I could target you and get the bodyguard, while hoping for the off chance the bodyguard doesn't protect you. Well, I would be telling my teammate to do the NK since I visited myself, but you get the point.
HOLD ON TORNADO WARNING AS IM TYPING THIS
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@Lunatic
I have a question for you. If I'm scum, who's my teammate?
-I've hardpressing for an Austin lynch right now.
-I scumread Savant late DP1, and was so confident in my read throughout NP1 that I didn't even notice Whiteflame had been made unvoteable at the start of this DP
-I had a massive FOS on Whiteflame on in Post 662 of DP1 and said I was torn between him and Earth earlier today. I'm only now starting to really think he's town.
-I'm hard accusing Earth right now. The only reason my vote isn't on him is because Austin exists.
The only person I've consistently townread all game is Wylted. Are you about to conclude Wylted is scum or that my reads on one of those four are fake? Because if you look at my posts and think about what my thought process would be in combination, you should hopefully be able to tell that I'm not bullshitting my reads. And if you remember that long-ass post I made earlier this DP, it should pair well with my posts from earlier.
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@Lunatic
The other thing with mharman I struggle with is why he protected himself. I know he thought savant would kill him but that seemed out of the question, mharman was in the POE pool last day phase and I don't think scum had any reason to think he was a PR threat. It seems like a waste of the role and kind of anti town from my perspective.
1. A lot of people were in the POE pool. You and Wylted were the only people that were universally town read. That's not a reason for me to say that I should sacrifice the utility I have for POE when there are investigative roles I should sacrifice myself for instead, however...
2. I didn't see any good investigative roles to target.
3. I misevaluated and thought the scum team would see me as one because I thought my bread was sensible. My bread was based on faulty reasoning and I didn't realize until later.
Dude. Everything you have posted scumreading me has been on a heavy confirmation bias and paranoia. Seriously, you started by saying "oh Mharman is the game, is it him?" then voting me. And because we have different ideas of RVS, my response believing your logic on my to be stupid made you think I was scum. From there, everything I have done has been scummy in your mind. You started with the idea that I could be scum, and just let it creep further into your head from there.
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@AustinL0926
thoughts: i think savant makes the most sense as scum bc i rly can't believe they redirect the magistrate. absolute waste of a powerful role
Not if you wanted to create WIFOM scenarios. It's actually quite useful to redirect that because if Lunatic hadn't visited, he and I wouldn't be confirmed. This would leave us in a situation where Lunatic, Whitleflame, Earth, you, and I wouldn't be confirmed. From there, all you'd have to do was get one lynch from the pool that wasn't you or Earth, and then get Whiteflame the next day. Or Whiteflame then someone from the pool. (really starting to like Whiteflame here over Earth btw)
still believe mharman is scum for bad faith push on me. his mech makes no sense, he's been coasting off his doc claim which could easily be fake. setup spec is meaningless for a new mod btw, pie also helped moozer with his game and it was unbalanced as fuck
AGAIN: There is a difference between someone's who's claimed one of three investigative roles in the game, and someone who has claimed the only protective role in the game. Doctor is one of the most common roles and in games where it's missing, there's almost always some other protective role. No one is here to CC me. The only CC here is joebob's flip.
And the appeal to the outlier that is Moozer's game is bs. Pie literally said that Moozer didn't listen to him on some design choices. He approved the concept of using CCs to give scum some help, sure, but that was Moozer's idea. Did Casey make the same mistake this game? I doubt it, given how diverse the roles here already are.
And even in Moozer's game, NONE of the protective roles were near exact. The all had different ways of doing the same thing. Meanwhile, dreamer and justice give scum limited pools to keep going from there. The same method to do the same thing.
Your logic on that hinges on:
-Casey making the same design mistake as Moozer, but even worse since two roles are this close
AND
-Pie approving the same mistake after everyone hated Moozer's setup OR Casey also not listening to Pie
also, having two alignment determining roles (justice/dreamer) makes PERFECT SENSE if scum have a lawyer/framer which can be used to manipulate both
Not really. Town is already doing well on investigative roles with Justice and Tracker already, especially with a Doctor to protect. It's already enough to warrant a lawyer/framer that could mess with them. Dreamer is still redundant.
yea all my solves just end up going with mharman/savant. neither of them are cleared mechanically in ANY WAY btw, so don't buy their args that they're out of the poe.
LMAO. Go find a jailkeeper or something before you assert that. As for Savant, again: He used the same role he claimed, and it was confirmed by Casey. He was TELLING THE TRUTH about his role in the game where mafia is incentivized to fake claim their roles because of how easy it is.
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@WyIted
I don’t think so; the dreamer fake claim is clearly designed to go with Maya Fey. It’s reasonable to say that Maya was confirmed to Austin because he asked about her.
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@whiteflame
It’s risky, and that’s a plan scum might want to go for.
Typo correction: *Might NOT want to go for
And yeah, I’m okay with waiting.
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@whiteflame
The part that I don't understand is his hesitancy to use both the CC and the claim itself to get a mislynch. He could have scumread WyIted over the CC and gotten traction without sussing himself (it was WyIted's mistake after all), but didn't.
You’re assuming scum needs or wants to be dishonest in that situation. They don’t have to be lying at all times. Wylted was going to full claim at one point or another that DP after his confusion and if he got lynched and flipped innocent DP1, town today would realize how hasty they were and would be looking at who was on that wagon. Sure, scum could use that to create other mislynch opportunities, but in a role mad game where some people on that wagon are going to be townread and/or confirmed as the game goes on, it might lead town to scum. It’s risky, and that’s a plan scum might want to go for.
And the reason he doesn’t need to go for it? He had Maya confirmed to him by Casey. He obviously knew Wylted was not Maya and everyone in town knows Wylted can and will try these types of CC gambits as town. The best thing for him to do there was to not take any bait, and wait until it gets revealed that Wylted wasn’t Maya.
He could have produced a Dreamer result since no one's claiming they visited him, but didn't.
That was far earlier in this DP, where he thought he had a chance of framing someone for visiting him.
Now that Lunatic and I basically confirmed each other, his options are more limited and he knows POE is just you, him, and Earth. We have three lynches left and we can get all of you for a guaranteed win. That’s why he went for the conspiracy theory about Savant and I last night.
Furthermore, given that he said DP1 he was planning on forcing scum to use resources on him: A no result, implying that scum did use a resource on him, would make him look town. That’s also why he said he had no results.
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@Earth
I legit am not sure, but your behavior makes me nervous.
I am 75% confident this is true.
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@Earth
Whats more likely? A Dreamer and whatever Lunatic is, plus a doc, or three investigation roles?
So three investigative roles and a doc vs. three investigative roles.
I’ll pick the option you didn’t provide: Justice, Tracker (because that’s what Lunatic is), and doc, as opposed to three investigative roles and with no doc.
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@AustinL0926
Mharman is scum, partner is likely Savant but keep an open mind.
We went from “savant magistrates Whiteflame so Mharman can claim there’s a redirect” and “game easy gg”… to “I’ll keep an open mind..”
It’s almost as if he’s now realizing how unbelievable his claims are now that he’s said them.
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Savant fakeclaimed doc in the Mahabharata game using one of Pie's questions. It's very possible the same thing is happening here
Fuck yeah I was hoping you’d make that argument because of how bad it is. There is a difference between claiming one of three investigative roles in the game, two of which are almost an exact match... and claiming LITERALLY THE ONLY PROTECTIVE ROLE IN THE GAME. We have investigative roles? You know what goes well with those, so that mafia doesn’t just kill them in the night? A protective role, and I am the only person here who has claimed one.
You’d think that if I was making a fake claim because there were no doctors in the game, that there would still be some other protective role.
You have a chess player’s memory and can remember Mahabharata Mafia, but NOT the fact that when Savant fake claimed Doctor, town also had:
-An apportioner that can extend a player’s life
-A gambler that can obtain a commute
… TWO methods of denying mafia an NK! Where’s this game’s commuter? Where is the apportioner in this game? Is there a jailkeeper in the house?
But we do have a tracker and a justice.
Magistrate is not a guaranteed town role, role confirmation =/= affiliation confirmationL
ROFL We were literally told Whiteflame was unvote-able today. This means that Savant was telling the truth about his PR in the game where mafia can easily fake claim PRs by checking with Casey before the game even starts. He’s not scum bro.
There's also no good reason for Mharman to self-protect. He was in POE, unlikely to be killed, and there were several people who had hinted at having a useful role, such as Lunatic.
You didn’t even read my whole post where I explained this… did you? The whole point of my role is to protect investigative roles. TLDR: I didn’t pick up on Lunatic’s investigative role, nor did I think it would do any good for me to protect you.
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@Earth
You’re forgetting the points I gave Whiteflame
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Wait I didn’t even read that fully HE SAID SAVANT WAS SCUM LMAOOOOOOOOO
LOLILOLOLOLILILOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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@Savant
I might be jumping to conclusions, but does anyone really dispute that those three players are the POE as of now?
You’re confirmed. Lunatic is confirmed. I’m an un CC’d doc (like not even any other NK-preventing roles are claimed) that Lunatic saw self-protect so I’d call myself confirmed. Wylted is so townie that I could build a house and raise a family on his behavior.
So no, you are not jumping to conclusions.
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@whiteflame
I still townread him behaviorally based on the previous DP - the whole CC back-and-forth with WyIted would have to have been an impressive misdirect.
It’s only an impressive misdirect if it’s on Wylted’s part, given he was the one who got confused. All Austin had to do was defend his claim.
Seriously how did we let ourselves believe he was doing some crazy gambit. No dreamer on earth is going to pull that crap; they’re gonna do what Joebob did and hang back, say the bare minimum until time runs low or they’re really confident on a read, and avoid claiming at all costs.
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Literally everything we do in the game of mafia is speculation. It’s just aided by behavioral and mechanical reads.
I know Casey is a new mod… but no mod, not even a new one, is going to put darn near the same role in the game twice on the same faction. They are both roles that are used in the night and give town limited results so that they have a nudge in the right direction but still need to read people. They both are useful when paired with a watcher that can further the investigation. The only difference is that one of them is confirmed, and the other was said by the guy who said “I’m the deuteragonist! It can’t be me!” … in the game where major characters in the theme can be outright missing and and asked about by scum.
The appeals to a new mod aren’t even relevant since Pie helped design this game. By the way, I could go through every DART game in the archives and I wouldn’t find a single one where two roles this similar were on the same team.
And sure, we don’t automatically have a ninja, but it’s a reasonable assumption given we have a tracker. Regardless, disturbed dreams are irrelevant if there’s no dreamer to begin with. I’m telling y’all. The previously solid looks of the mechanical side of things don’t match the behavior; not even Austin’s defenders can deny it. Now that the mechanical side of things is busted, a case for townie Austin has no legs to stand on.
Anyway, I was hoping I’d figure out who the teammate was but they’re both defending him. I guess I’ll give points to Whiteflame because his defense at least understood that the obvious truth might actually be truth. And he could have CC’d me but didn’t. Earth’s Godot claim is interesting and all, but he’s been hanging back all game long (something I remember him doing in Ozark Mafia) and the quick pushback on one of the most obvious scumreads of the year is suspicious. I’m not 100% sold but I’m a good 75% confident Earth is the teammate.
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@WyIted
I’m good. I support Trump, but I support the 1st Amendment even more.
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@WyIted
If you can’t find your own COC, that’s a you problem
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@Savant
Oh ok. Yeah if scum is able to make use of it in a DP4 LYLO we’re all boned
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@Savant
Wait, are you 1x or do you have more shots? If so don’t use them.
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