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@Savant
I still don’t think Whiteflame’s justification is all that great, but I feel better about him being town given the context of other things that have happened in this game. Read between my lines please.
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@ILikePie5
Forgot to tag. Btw, I’m not asking for your claim because it isn’t very useful to do so. Scum team has hints about what to claim, finding one to make a suitable justification for, can’t be possibly be that hard for you in a game with so many potential characters and roles. Especially since you know not to come with any justification short of perfect, after having accused Whiteflame based on his earlier.
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The only reason I was hesitant was because of the Cop claim. You were fine lynching him even after that.
Everyone was hesitant to some degree. Even I said we should wait until morning, even unvoting to avoid a hasty hammer. But you can’t use that to argue you are town, when literally everyone, town or mafia, is going to show some. I’m not even going to argue my innocence based on that, I think there are much better reasons to townread me.
I could’ve joined you and Disc, but I chose to sleep on it and make a decision in the morning. And what do I wake up to? Scum Pie would have a blast lynching Town WF who is a claimed cop.
That’s not what you woke up to. That’s what I woke up to, and I ended up finding your slip instead. You woke up to my accusations, at which point the scenario has changed.
So I’m scum for proposing we VTNL instead of agreeing to lynch a claimed Cop because my plan was kill WF at night? #Logic
Just saying you would’ve benefited greatly from a VTNL. Which is important in the context that you normally wouldn’t propose one. Town Pie is not this scared to keep the game moving forward.
Right now is better so we get 2 lynches on our terms with max POE. Whoever scum decides to kill also gives us information.
Whoever scum kills will be whoever gives us the least information. That’s not reliable.
So you want to VTNL when odds of catching scum are higher and vote when odds of catching scum are lower? Got it.
We are going to be having the same conversations with a new flavor DP2 if we VTNL here. Our odds will not improve. And with how confident I am in my read on you, I like our odds of catching you now.
Under my plan, in the worst case scenario, we have a 40% chance of catching scum. Scum love your plan because when they mislynch me here, an experienced townie dies and town is basically forced to VtNL tomorrow.
Idk where you figure that 40% from. And again, even if you are shockingly town and we VTNL tomorrow, we will be entering DP3 with very good information and high chance of catching scum.
And they can do that even if we VTNL here, which only benefits our numbers because we get another POE opportunity out of it.
Not true at all. If the kill is somehow stopped, we are left with an even number heading into DP2. Your extra “POE opportunity” is just another VTNL. In your plan, if you are innocent, we will have one lynch and two NKs (might as well be three because the mod kill gives us Jack and shit) to look at. As Disc and I have been saying, that plays right into mafia’s hands. In my plan, if we get an NK prevention, it means we have one less VTNL
A VTNL right now correct from probability perspective and an information perspective where unless the scum team is exactly Savant/WF, we have information, better POE, and a safety net in a mislynch.
Given everything above, this is laughable.
So you’d like to sacrifice POE for a bunch of information that can be WIFOMed as you kindly pointed out for the reasoning why I wouldn’t vote WF
Nope. Like I said earlier. We can tie actual votes and lynches to the behavior of others and make more accurate reads based on it. A mafioso cannot WIFOM their way out of a sticky situation as easily if they are on record voting for a lynch that happened. To repeat, if we spend all this time saying who we want to lynch without doing it, we are just blowing a bunch of smoke up each others’ asses.
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If we lynch Pie and are correct, we may have to VTNL at some point after to help find the teammate. In this scenario, I’d still prefer to gain information sooner rather than later, and I’d rather delay VTNLing, hoping that we end up not having to.
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Back to the present:
Obviously because of 420 we will now have to VTNL at some point. Now or later?
Well, to be honest, I still want to invest in future DPs by ensuring that we have as much information heading into them as possible. If we are wrong here and faced with a MYLO that we have to VTNL on DP2, then so be it. We’d be entering DP3 with a wealth of information, which is much better than VTNLing here and repeating the same discussions with a new flavor tomorrow.
There is another reason, however: The chance of a failed NK. While there’s a lot of variables in this game and a lot is possible, I suspect there is at least one protective role among us. That player has the chance to shut down an NK and rebalance the numbers headed into DP2, which would be an ideal 5v2 at that point.
Of course, everything I’ve said above assumes we lynch Pie and is innocent, which I think is highly unlikely. It is something to think about for those of you who want to VTNL. You may be right that a VTNL is correct, but it doesn’t have to happen now.
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@ILikePie5
So here’s the question. If Pie is scum and WF is town, why is Pie hesitating to vote WF?
I will admit this gave me pause for a moment. However it is entirely WIFOM. It means little because you were hesitant at a time when most were, and obviously being the only one to not show at least some form of pause is going to look very suspicious.
To anyone reading this: Remember when my top scum reads were Savant and Whiteflame? Let’s turn the clock back to that time so I can properly ask: What would a VTNL do in a world where Whiteflame and Savant are town?
First, town is likely to enter a 6v2 headed into DP2. Not ideal. On top of that, Whiteflame would likely be dead, and Savant roleblocked, leaving him as the most likely lynch of the day. Another townie dead NP2, and town is facing a 4v2 MYLO. They are forced to VTNL for a second time, and are left with a 3v2 LYLO headed into DP4. The two VTNLs wouldn’t have gained much information, and all town would know is that they were wrong to accuse Whiteflame and Savant. But since Whiteflame was lynched in this timeline, no one can be easily held accountable for his death, since all five remaining players can say that they held off on lynching him. No one can easily be held accountable for Savant’s lynch either, given that the whole town would’ve been in agreement in that DP2. So town is left with a guessing game, and they need to be correct twice in a row.
A perfect scenario for the mafia members who proposed the VTNL.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Not much happened while you were gone. Some more people popped in and they want to VTNL.
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@Lunatic
If an extension is wanted I can grant one if three or more people want it, since the day phase was stalled until I woke up.
I’m not against it. I’ll vote yes.
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Why? For a nonexistent scumslip? Did you even bother asking if scum were provided game information? Or are you just going to sit here and be pretty and lynch me for no reason?
I gave other reasons. It’s not just the slip, it’s everything else that in context of your slip, makes me believe it is a slip.
Anyways. 420 is going to be modkilled and he’s obviously town. Who instantly sussed him earlier today? Savant.
I can’t even blame Savant at this point. To me, it looks like 420 joined just to troll. With that in mind, he was completely anti-town, just not in the way Savant said.
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I hope Lunatic gets here soon. I pinged him on Discord, hoping to speed up that process. If you’re reading this, that’s your cue to do so as well.
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@Barney
Eh. I’m glad ur back and I’m happy you read the brainrot…. it’s a necessary evil that may help your decision making.
Again, please vote Pie. I under you may want to read more first like Whiteflame, but please do at some point at least.
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@whiteflame
Do you have any thoughts to post or are you still thinking and/or typing?
Just trying to get the lynch on Pie here.
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@Casey_Risk
I think you should trust me as well
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@Casey_Risk
I get that point of view but I think there’s a good reason to trust Savant now. And Whiteflame. Things may not end up in the worst case scenario.
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@Barney
@Casey_Risk
I’ll make my own request: Please vote Pie.
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@Lunatic
Sorry to see all the bs happening in your game rn. Genuinely.
Anyway, vote count?
Anyway, vote count?
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@whiteflame
I say we just do it. I think the case for Pie being scum is strong enough when combined with the other stuff I mentioned in one of my alternate theories, and I trust Savant at this point.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Thankfully it’s now down six feet under
Not* not “now”
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I have decided to vote for a Pie lynch, please join me and Savant. I think he knows something.
This game is obviously a little derailed now bc of 420 (ha). Thankfully it’s now down six feet under. I am trusting you and I need you to trust me.
Don’t let me down.
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@Savant
I really don’t like the prospect of passing up on lynching Pie, but I also don’t like the prospect of two dead townies in one DP (not even counting the night phase) if by some miracle Pie is town.
I’ll tell you what. Since I’m beginning to town read you, I’ll trust your thought process.
I’ll tell you what. Since I’m beginning to town read you, I’ll trust your thought process.
VTL Pie
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@Discipulus_Didicit
You aren't. the "because he didn't read the rules of the game he signed up for" was the hint that I was being sarcastic.
Ohhhh I get it. Lol
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Being a noob is all the more reason to read up as much as you can. Either he is trolling or extremely incompetent. Either warrants a modkill if he’s gong to copy paste his role pm
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@420-1776
What's wrong with that?
You know what? I think you’re just trolling at this point. You created an alt for satire, and have had your fun, and now you just want out of the game. Congrats.
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420 is def going to be misled. As much as I want a lynch, I really don’t like the idea of two deaths in one DP.
Looks like Pie and his teammate are getting what they want.
VTNL
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@Lunatic
@420-1776
Oh you have got to be kidding me.
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@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@Discipulus_Didicit
@Savant
@WyIted
You were fine with it last night it. What changed?
Enough changed. That’s what.
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@420-1776
It means I want you the read the DP, and then give ur thoughts on who you think is what
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@Discipulus_Didicit
lmao already got it before I saw this
Thx
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I really do not want to lynch Whiteflame.
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@whiteflame
Not sure what this is in response to, but... alright.
It should be obvious to you… go back and look
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@ILikePie5
Where did this talk of a Bomb even come up? This talk of a bomb is very interesting to me.
Let’s just say it just makes sense.
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@420-1776
Ok. Please try to get something posted before the DP ends, ty
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@ILikePie5
None of what you said debunks anything I said. OMGUS is funny tho
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@420-1776
give ur thoughts anyway. Say where ur confused if you are.
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That was worded stupidly. I’m saying that if I’m a mod, I’d rather get someone not in the game to replace than someone who was just in the game and died, but the latter is better than not replacing
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@whiteflame
Lynching 420 is just the lazy choice at this point, and frankly still feels very unwarranted and runs counter to most reads on him. I'd prefer replacing him for future DPs instead, though I know that comes with its own problem of trying to find another player to take over.
Yeah, that’s why I said a dead townie can take over for 420. Looking at it from a mod perspective, it’s not preferable to finding someone completely new to this specific game of mafia to replace in, but it’s better than keeping him in
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@Discipulus_Didicit
We are dangerously close to a no lynch. This is why I don't like waiting for the last minute.
Forgot to address this.
I see ur point but I still think we have enough tome. Plus, I wouldn’t have found what I did about Pie if some had hammered last night
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@whiteflame
I did say a possible teammate for Pie couldn’t be established conclusively… but I didn’t say one couldn’t be established at all.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Reason being is that idt a teammate for Pie can really be established conclusively at this point.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I am very much ok with lynching Pie over Whiteflame
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@Savant
At the very least, you’ll have a more detailed window into my my thought process
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@Savant
Look at everything I have posted today after Lunatic’s latest vote count. Read between the lines. If you do that, you have a reason to think I am town.
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