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@IwantRooseveltagain
You can’t debate bigots.
Try telling that to a former neo-Nazi. There are plenty of them, here’s one particular example: https://qz.com/1457014/to-deradicalize-extremists-former-neo-nazis-use-a-radical-method-empathy
She was once a bigot, but someone convinced her stop being one, and that someone did it by being kind. You would have simply berated her, and she would’ve dug her heels in as a response.
How are you going to convince anyone when you won’t even listen to them? You can’t. When you refuse to listen, you create strawmans and attack those instead. That doesn’t convince anyone. Worst part is, you don’t even try to be convincing because you hold the blatantly false belief that “they cannot be convinced,” despite the vast amount of examples proving the contrary.
Bigotry may not be welcome here, but it is tolerated up to a certain point. It has to be this way for a debate website where people are aiming to convince each other. No, arguing against something isn’t intolerance. Banning users, or berating them without an attempt to to have an honest discussion, would be.
Furthermore, the fact that think my statements are bigoted shows you don’t understand them. You spent a long time telling yourself not to debate with bigots, and as a result, you have created of yourself a one-man echo chamber where almost everyone is bigoted. Then you refuse to have an honest discussion with anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest, even when they tend to agree with you, because they are “bigots.”
The problem is, you can’t label someone a bigot and refuse to listen to them in the same breath. How can you tell if someone is a bigot when you don’t even make an attempt to understand them? You can’t.
I am not saying it is ok to call an Irishman a “Mick.” Quite the opposite. My point is that race and gender identity are not the same thing, so your comparison is foolish.
If you had made an honest attempt to listen to me, you would have understood this. Instead, you chose to berate rather than convince based on a series of false assumptions.
I offer you one more chance: Are you going to stop this and listen for the sake of rationality, or are you going to continue your objectively terrible methods?
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@IwantRooseveltagain
You aren’t. If anything, you’re harming yourself. You’re dismissing an honest conversation because you are so convinced you are right that you are unwilling to listen to anything else.
Apparently, you think anyone who disagrees with you should be converted not with logic, but with shaming tactics. They are ignorant, and it is the Progressive’s Burden to bring them to enlightenment, by any means necessary.
It’s pretty clear that you don’t debate with intention to find truth and/or change minds; you debate with intention to try to make the other person look foolish. It’s pretty sad how signed up for a debate website and decided to make all your “arguments” in bad faith. After all, it doesn’t come off as arguing in good faith when one tells so many people their opposing opinions are “unwelcome,” on a site made with the purpose of holding talks between people with opposing opinions.
You go on so much about “ignorance,” but what happens when you see everyone who disagrees with you, even in the slightest, as simply “ignorant?” It’s pretty clear that you see a large portion of this site, and country, as such. Anyone right-leaning, as well as anyone who isn’t left-leaning enough, are barely logical savages who must be brought to civility.
You’ve derided plenty of right-wingers and plenty of left-wingers who disagreed with you on a single subject. Consider this: Could it be that you are ignorant, since you are so unwilling to listen to others? Such stubbornness often leads to ignorance, so it wouldn’t be a surprise.
But of course, despite all you have said, I invite you to change this behavior of yours, because I hope you ultimately realize how harmful this kind of arguing is to genuine truth-seeking. I will ask again: Could you please be more civil?
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@IwantRooseveltagain
See above post.
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@Sidewalker
A Goodyear blimp? Damn NASCAR-loving Martians! Wasn't abducting Kurt Busch enough for them?!
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Way to identify yourself as a moron to a bunch of strangers.I suppose you think being gay is a disorder too.But I see you are a Christian which is synonymous with ignorance and intolerance. I think believing in God is a disorder.But calling an Irishman a Mick is ok, right?
It's a bit hard to answer a question when the person across from you already has contempt for you, and seems unwilling to listen to you or interpret your arguments in a way that is fair. None of what you said sounds like an argument designed to discuss the issue honestly; it sounds like bitterness, and despite past interactions I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you want an honest discussion. Could you re-word your argument in a way that attempts to achieve this?
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Comparing transgenders to an ethnic group is a bit silly.
One of these things you were born with. The other, is a choice made when one neglects a specific mental issue.
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@PREZ-HILTON
Dammit, now the Martians are spying on us too :/
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Theologians mafia
Historical Monarchs mafia
Slain Journalists mafia
WWII Tanks & Planes mafia
Medications mafia
Ice Cream Flavors mafia
Five Families mafia (using famous Italian mafia members)
Gangsters mafia (expanded version of the above to include other gangs)
Regular Show mafia
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@thett3
The girls who came to us had many comorbidities: depression, anxiety, ADHD, eating disorders, obesity. Many were diagnosed with autism, or had autism-like symptoms. A report last year on a British pediatric transgender center found that about one-third of the patients referred there were on the autism spectrum. Frequently, our patients declared they had disorders that no one believed they had. We had patients who said they had Tourette syndrome (but they didn’t); that they had tic disorders (but they didn’t); that they had multiple personalities (but they didn’t)The doctors privately recognized these false self-diagnoses as a manifestation of social contagion. They even acknowledged that suicide has an element of social contagion. But when I said the clusters of girls streaming into our service looked as if their gender issues might be a manifestation of social contagion, the doctors said gender identity reflected something innate
I’ve never understood how people can genuinely argue transgenderism isn’t a mental disorder when they see stuff like this.
It’s of no surprise that the transgenderism has spread as a social contagion. You take individuals with pre-existing mental disorders, combine them with adolescent immaturity, and progressive ideology that tells us identity is everything, and you get this.
Have you heard of BIID?
To begin transitioning, the girls needed a letter of support from a therapist—usually one we recommended—who they had to see only once or twice for the green light. To make it more efficient for the therapists, we offered them a template for how to write a letter in support of transition. The next stop was a single visit to the endocrinologist for a testosterone
I’m not sure there are even words to describe how fucked up that is.
If the words of the author are to be taken at face value, then this a blatant quid pro quo between the therapists and the transgender center. It shows they are completely willing to scratch each others’ backs and exploit mentally ill individuals, who happen to be minors no less, for profit.
We found out later this girl had had intercourse, and because testosterone thins the vaginal tissues, her vaginal canal had ripped open. She had to be sedated and given surgery to repair the damage. She wasn’t the only vaginal laceration case we heard about.Other girls were disturbed by the effects of testosterone on their clitoris, which enlarges and grows into what looks like a microphallus, or a tiny penis. I counseled one patient whose enlarged clitoris now extended below her vulva, and it chafed and rubbed painfully in her jeans. I advised her to get the kind of compression undergarments worn by biological men who dress to pass as female. At the end of the call I thought to myself, “Wow, we hurt this kid.”
Holy fucking shit. This, I am actually speechless about.
"That same thought came up again with another case. This one was in spring of 2022 and concerned a young man who had intense obsessive-compulsive disorder that manifested as a desire to cut off his penis after he masturbated. This patient expressed no gender dysphoria, but he got hormones, too. I asked the doctor what protocol he was following, but I never got a straight answer. "
The fact that these doctors can still do this as a profession and NOT be afraid of being tossed in a cell to rot away for the rest of their lives is astounding. Why the FUCK is any of this shit legal? And how the FUCK did this shit receive government funding? The author said the center belonged to the University of Washington, so who the FUCK approved this?!
Unfortunately, experts can be just as ideologically blinded as the rest of us
I’m going back to this because it resonated with me. Well said. This sentence alone could become a whole essay easily.
Thanks for posting this. I could tell where was a lot of thought behind it. The linked article was eye-opening to me, despite me being someone who has always opposed transgenderism. I knew it was bad, but this bad? Wow.
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So EA had the Eagles winning in their official Madden 23 Simulation…
Which is good news for Chiefs fans, statistically speaking.
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@Athias
Congratulations LeBron James, you're almost the greatest of all time.
Accurate. I think there is reason to put Jordan, Bryant, and Abdul-Jabbar ahead of James.
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@badger
If you can figure out what it is that’s giving you those off the cuff reads and explain them to the town, you will be extremely scary for scum teams.
Heck, you had me a little worried DP1.
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@RationalMadman
First game supa played truly well. Congrats to Supa.
Yeah he played better than me this game.
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Nah, I was hoping y’all would kill me instead of Earth. I thought Luna was scum with Supa
The plan in case you were actually Watcher was to let myself get lynched after killing Earth, give Supa the town cred, then Supa kills you, and Supa convinces Lunatic, who was townreading Supa and suspecting an Austin-me team, to not change in opinion.
I was trying to make sure people knew I was town-reading Austin late into DP2 for that reason; I was trying to play into Lunatic's reasoning.
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@ILikePie5
Idt anybody would’ve noticed if y’all didn’t bring it up
Yeah, I was so convinced it would've been noticed at the time. As it turns out, it is incredibly easy think you're screwed when you're not as scum. Ya see every mistake you make and think "oh, town sees it"
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@PREZ-HILTON
Looking at the setup, I feel like it was a little town-sided. It would've been worse if it was a 9-player setup, but 8-player grants the argument that scum can win in one less DP.
I will say though, if Pie was actually survivor it would've been really scum-sided.
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@PREZ-HILTON
Plus even if it was a scum slip, there was no reason to think anybody noticed.
I know, Supa was right about that, too. And here I was typing in the chat "SUPA FUCKING HARD BUS ME ASAP" lol.
Normally, convincing Supa to bus me could've screwed us both over, in retrospective. I wonder if I lucked into giving Pie the green light to cause some chaos.
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@AustinL0926
ngl, you were the person that I felt could've screwed us over the most if the game kept going. You perfectly called that Supa was bussing me.
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@ILikePie5
@PREZ-HILTON
The tags on this thread LMAOOOOO
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The slip I made was real btw. I was emulating my town play near-perfectly until I made that slip
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@ILikePie5
@PREZ-HILTON
I knew you were hanging way too far back DP1. At first I thought you were the cop, until Earth claimed. Survivor works as well; I found it interesting that you were so hesitant to go after me DP2.
VTL Lunatic
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uhhhhh..... what?
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@ILikePie5
I'm not gonna have the time for this one, but I hope Eric Holcomb is a vanilla in this one, since he does literally nothing.
But that can be a conversation for the Politics forum. All you need to know is I think Eric Holcomb = mid asf
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@ILikePie5
What made you think B.K was lying and trying to get someone else to reveal themselves to be the Doctor?
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@Vader
Why was my post in the last DP a scumslip and the reason I gave in Post #31 of this DP insufficient for you?
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@PREZ-HILTON
My confidence in my reads is low, though (duh, it's PoE). I want to no-lynch here. It also comes with the benefit of the plan Pie suggested, if he's town. In the event Pie's scum, I don't think he'll have anything obscure that could lock us out of the win, like a voteblocker.
VTNL
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@ILikePie5
My scumreads are basically PoE.
Earlier in the game, in Post #25 of DP1, I said the game is probably simple. But in Post #76, Wylted said "I thought about making it open set up because I , but I already committed, so I won't tell." This makes me think the game is more complicated than I thought. Simple games don't require open setups, and mods don't consider open setups when their game is simple.
It's also why I buy the idea of a Doctor, Cop, and Watcher all in the same game right now. The fact that he backed off an open setup tells me Wylted felt town would coordinate too easily if he made the setup open. A Doctor, Cop, and Watcher would be easy to coodinate, and Cop/Doc alone is known to be steamroll-y if town can figure out they have it quickly. Since the setup is likely more complicated, it wouldn't be surprising if scum has Godfather/Ninja to counter.
And to boot, a setup with Doctor, Cop, Watcher, Godfather, Ninja, and 3 vanillas can still be designed quickly. It's a setup that contains common roles with well-known relationships, so it takes very little tweaking.
As for Austin, I consider his effort too genuine to be scummy. If anything, that belief was reinforced this DP.
Which leaves Supa and Lunatic to be scum. The only wrinkle in this is the possibility that you aren't Watcher; you're Godfather and there is no Ninja. But I'm starting to like your effort almost as much as Austin's. So I'm still trying to figure that one out.
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@Vader
The fact that B.K was playing so bad it's town made me want to reassess my reads. I was still deciding if Badger was scum or not, and had him as slight town because it looked like he was rage-quitting. The problem was that I had everyone else as lean town and no time to reassess anyone else.
There was also the off-chance Badger was making a last-minute gambit. I decided it was worth the risk since if he was legitimately rage-quitting (which was my hunch), he's useless anyway.
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@RationalMadman
I feel like the best format would be:
3 different open, but very balanced (ideally designed by the best game designers on the site) setups that are played. 3 judges will score the game on performance. Like Olympic stunt events, it will have to be subjective, but ideally the 3 most universally fair judges will be accepted.
Might have to be 2 designers and 2 judges, depending on who's available.
Then everyone else plays it out. Best total score after all 3 games wins.
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@ILikePie5
Respectfully, let’s just drop the beef. Please.
If you have nothing nice to say, don’t say it. It might be best if you two don’t even mention each other.
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I've been thinking more, and RationalMadman's ban has been lifted. To be honest, I can't help but feel like I was holding some kind of grudge against RM, and using reason to convince myself of everything I said. That's how I feel now, at least.
Deep down, I want to give people more chances- at least one more, in this case. Maybe it's a foolish mercy, but I'd rather grant foolish mercy than dole out even potentially foolish justice. I understand there's a boundary to this, and I'll follow it the best I can.
However, if RM and Pie are in the same game I'm modding, I will make sure they make some kind of civility promise in the sign-ups thread. Whoever doesn't agree, won't play; simple as. I ask anyone skeptical of RM (as I suspect many of you are) to give him one more chance. Please, for the sake of peace.
He's not even obligated to play in any of my games, and I don't even know if he will as I type this. I just wanted to extend the offer and clarify that I was not coerced or convinced by anyone to make this decision.
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@RationalMadman
Not saying I would host it, but if I did, it would have such enforcement.
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And if you don’t wanna spend the time on MU, you can just decline and it will roll over to 2nd place.
That way we can still encourage a large as possible entry list for the DART mafia championship.
I would love large-scale games (like the old DDO used to have) for such an event
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I want to reverse my Super Bowl pick, but I made my bed, so I’ll lay in it
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@badger
As for your idea, it looks cool. We could have our own site Championship, winner goes to the MafiaUniverse Championship to represent us.
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