Mharman

I’ll talk about other stuff in the endgame thread.

Also, Posts #74 and #76 of DP1 were a big clue.

I knew you were hanging way too far back DP1. At first I thought you were the cop, until Earth claimed. Survivor works as well; I found it interesting that you were so hesitant to go after me DP2. 

Let’s see your results, Pie.

sure

uhhhhh..... what?

I'm not gonna have the time for this one, but I hope Eric Holcomb is a vanilla in this one, since he does literally nothing.

But that can be a conversation for the Politics forum. All you need to know is I think Eric Holcomb = mid asf

What made you think B.K was lying and trying to get someone else to reveal themselves to be the Doctor?

How does Supa turning on Pie make him town?

Why was my post in the last DP a scumslip and the reason I gave in Post #31 of this DP insufficient for you?

My confidence in my reads is low, though (duh, it's PoE). I want to no-lynch here. It also comes with the benefit of the plan Pie suggested, if he's town. In the event Pie's scum, I don't think he'll have anything obscure that could lock us out of the win, like a voteblocker.

My scumreads are basically PoE.

Earlier in the game, in Post #25 of DP1, I said the game is probably simple. But in Post #76, Wylted said "I thought about making it open set up because I , but I already committed, so I won't tell." This makes me think the game is more complicated than I thought. Simple games don't require open setups, and mods don't consider open setups when their game is simple.

It's also why I buy the idea of a Doctor, Cop, and Watcher all in the same game right now. The fact that he backed off an open setup tells me Wylted felt town would coordinate too easily if he made the setup open. A Doctor, Cop, and Watcher would be easy to coodinate, and Cop/Doc alone is known to be steamroll-y if town can figure out they have it quickly. Since the setup is likely more complicated, it wouldn't be surprising if scum has Godfather/Ninja to counter.

And to boot, a setup with Doctor, Cop, Watcher, Godfather, Ninja, and 3 vanillas can still be designed quickly. It's a setup that contains common roles with well-known relationships, so it takes very little tweaking.

As for Austin, I consider his effort too genuine to be scummy. If anything, that belief was reinforced this DP.

Which leaves Supa and Lunatic to be scum. The only wrinkle in this is the possibility that you aren't Watcher; you're Godfather and there is no Ninja. But I'm starting to like your effort almost as much as Austin's. So I'm still trying to figure that one out.

The fact that B.K was playing so bad it's town made me want to reassess my reads. I was still deciding if Badger was scum or not, and had him as slight town because it looked like he was rage-quitting. The problem was that I had everyone else as lean town and no time to reassess anyone else.

There was also the off-chance Badger was making a last-minute gambit. I decided it was worth the risk since if he was legitimately rage-quitting (which was my hunch), he's useless anyway.

Vanilla town

I feel like the best format would be:

3 different open, but very balanced (ideally designed by the best game designers on the site) setups that are played. 3 judges will score the game on performance.  Like Olympic stunt events, it will have to be subjective, but ideally the 3 most universally fair judges will be accepted.

Might have to be 2 designers and 2 judges, depending on who's available.

Then everyone else plays it out. Best total score after all 3 games wins.

Respectfully, let’s just drop the beef. Please.

If you have nothing nice to say, don’t say it. It might be best if you two don’t even mention each other.

I've been thinking more, and RationalMadman's ban has been lifted. To be honest, I can't help but feel like I was holding some kind of grudge against RM, and using reason to convince myself of everything I said. That's how I feel now, at least.

Deep down, I want to give people more chances- at least one more, in this case. Maybe it's a foolish mercy, but I'd rather grant foolish mercy than dole out even potentially foolish justice. I understand there's a boundary to this, and I'll follow it the best I can.

However, if RM and Pie are in the same game I'm modding, I will make sure they make some kind of civility promise in the sign-ups thread. Whoever doesn't agree, won't play; simple as. I ask anyone skeptical of RM (as I suspect many of you are) to give him one more chance. Please, for the sake of peace.

He's not even obligated to play in any of my games, and I don't even know if he will as I type this. I just wanted to extend the offer and clarify that I was not coerced or convinced by anyone to make this decision.

Not saying I would host it, but if I did, it would have such enforcement.

Might be a pipe dream, but I wanna try it

As for your idea, it looks cool. We could have our own site Championship, winner goes to the MafiaUniverse Championship to represent us.

Probably will be posted near the end of summer

But don’t expect that to happen until summer

Oh, and once I’m done with the Google Doc, I’ll create a new archive. It’ll have some games that were lost to history too- they predate the first game in the archives.

I have screenshots of the results and setups of every DDO non-beginner series mafia game ever.

I just haven’t put the information into a Google doc, but I will at some point.

I’m also hoping to talk to players from those games to see what they remember happened; I think it’d be cool to at least have short descriptions of what exactly happened in those games.

hammered

Sure, if Badger wants to be lynched, whatever. He was my other (albeit kinda weak) scum read anyway. We should VTNL tomorrow for the better matchup of a 3v2 instead of a 4v2.

I will never doubt how  DUMB noob logic can be again.

Thoughts? Activity? Anything?

Why do you think B.K is town?

What makes you less confident (from what I can tell) in the idea that B.K is scum?

Could you clarify what you meant, then?

Spent hours thinking about your question and debating what is and isn't scummy in my mind, and I'm scumreading Best.Korea. There's just so many sus things B.K has said that I can't justify all of them.

1. The whole "Idk what to do" thing in Post #6, only to be followed up by a lot of comments that look like he's pretty sure of himself (a new example of this contradiction is found every time they post).

2. The immediate town read of you in Post #7 based on your research. I'm not saying that announcing research is inherently scummy, but it's not inherently towny, either. It's not something that we can use to evaluate affiliation. At first, I said it was only slightly scummy because it could just be bad/inconsistent noob logic, but then they go on to call out the illogical parts of Lunatic's sus on you, and then assert in Post #56 that Lunatic is scum because his instant scumread (as B.K perceives it, more on this in a second) on you is irrational. Yet, they ignore how their instant townread on you would be just as irrational.

So it's not really that B.K's poor logic is the problem, it's the fact that they give so much thought to the idea of logic, EXCEPT when they make a conclusion. With that in mind, the fact that they instantly called you "town" and than instantly called the one person who disagreed "scum" reeks of buddying.

3. The whole "testing reactions" thing (as he claimed in Posts #54 and #61 looked legit to me for a bit, until I noticed how he did it. When he set up his "test" in Post #10, Lunatic didn't even respond to the vote itself (instead focusing on you), and yet by Post #19 they were already calling Lunatic "scum." While they gave a different reason than their "test" in Post #19, he makes it clear in Post #56 that Lunatic's focus on you in Post #13 was a failure of his "test."

Not to mention the fact that Lunatic didn't even say you were scum; he only said in Post #13 and reiterated in Post #29 that you COULD be scum, based on you being a noob. Was it dumb? Yes. But it wasn't outright saying you were scum, as B.K claimed.

It's completely unfair to test someone's reaction, and then say their lack of reaction is scummy, especially when the person conducting the test is exaggerating claims of "accusation." Again, one could chalk this up to poor logic, but for the same reason from earlier, I don't think that excuse holds up anymore. It's basically a test where Lunatic was damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

4. The idea in Posts #56 and #61 that Lunatic, Pie, and Supa are all somehow scum because they "baited" those three all into "uniting against" them. Ignoring the fact that they're basically claiming Pie and Supa also failed their "test," it is ridiculous to assert this game has 3 mafiosos, especially in Posts #65 and #69 after being told in Posts #62 and #68 how unfair a 5v3 would be. And of course, it's all to justify that idea that B.K somehow "baited" 3 players who made an observation that B.K might know a bit more than thought into failing his "test." It's all way too convenient. To me, it just looks like they're expanding their lynch pool.

So yeah, B.K has some poor logic, but it seems less like it's just plain wrong and more like it has a manipulative purpose behind it. At this point, it's more of a pattern than a mistake. He might be a noob, but I think he's a rather smart one.

As for the teammate, I suspect Badger right now, with a slight consideration over the other possibilities.

Yeah, I know, "YoU'Re JuST oMGuSsINg HiM," as if his vote on me is one of my reasons. Tbh, I don't care about that. Oh, no. I guess I can't have any reasons to suspect him because his vote happens to be on me.

1. Without any reason, he says in Post #9 that B.K reads as town. He is the only player here to say it outright. Admittedly this isn't suspicious on its own, but I have other reasons.

2. Also in Post #9, he makes the same vote choice as B.K one post later when they set up their "test." This is possibly an example of teamwork. It could also be that B.K is trying to buddy Badger as well, so this isn't suspicious on its own, either.

3. The big (relatively speaking) thing for me is the process of elimination, which is what makes the first two sort of worth talking about.

It could be one of the three B.K has in their scum pile as a sneaky way of not seeming too connected to them, but Lunatic and Supa have been way too skeptical of B.K for me to think that (especially Lunatic), and Pie was the one who first pointed out B.K's not-so-noob-looking interactions. I suppose it could be scripted for one of them (Pie in particular seems to have the least amount of suspicion on B.K when he normally is a bit more confident in those reads as I recall), but to be honest there's not enough to say so.

There's Earth, but they're inactive, and there's really no evidence to say they're lurking behind the scenes.

I did say there was a small amount of truth to Lunatic's suspicion on you, but it wasn't enough for me. That reasoning still stands. Besides, I think you're a bit more town now. The announcement of your research still isn't worth anything, but I like the effort your putting in; it seems honest to me, especially with the cross-examination you're doing. It could be all fake, but I see no reason to believe that.

So that just leaves Badger, who has a couple posts that make me draw comparisons to B.K. I know PoE isn't much at this stage of the game, but it's the best I've got given the other options.

TL;DR:

Best.Korea (Hard scum)

Badger (Slight scum)

Earth (Null)

Pie (Slight town)

Supa (Lean town)

Austin (Lean town)

Lunatic (Lean town)

I'm obviously most confident in my read on B.K, so I'm down to lynch.

Drive complete; catching up.

That’s all for now. For anyone wondering what I’m busy with, I have to drive back to college today.

Well, I will say the discussion being generated is good.

Tbh, I’m not a fan of b.k’s jumping straight to conclusions so quickly. His instant scum read on you reeks of paranoia, but then his instant town read on Austin lacks any sort of the same caution. I’d say it’s ever so slightly scummy; the only thing stopping me from saying it is outright scummy is the possibility of  it just being bad and inconsistent noob logic.

I’ll definitely be keeping a close eye on what they post.

@best.korea

I’m not convinced of anything about Austin’s affiliation yet, but I will say I find Lunatic’s idea that noobs might be scum to be pretty dumb. But I’m not convinced of anything about Lunatic’s affiliation yet, either.

Question for you: What’s with the near-instant conclusions from you?

Bengals should not have talked so much trash, simple as.

By the way, I’m not opposed to questioning Austin, I just don’t see any indication he’s scum. I don’t really think his lack of questions is enough to say he’s scum.

@best.Korea Unblock me so I can tag you properly for this game.

*new townies

Although I will admit, I did also ask questions to other players in my first game, along with the research, so there is truth to the idea that new players will ask questions.

Forgot to include in last post:

@lunatic I don’t know of any times noobs were specifically chosen for one affiliation or another. I know I didn’t do any of that if a noob was in one of my games. I think that would just make the game too easy for town, knowing they could easily predict a noob’s affiliation if that were the case.

Also, I researched old games in my first game, and I was town in that one. Maybe I’m an outlier, but I think that has more to do with play style than affiliation.

Hello homos,

I am also pretty busy irl, so I’m going to be less active than I normally am.

RIP Big Cock Brock.

I’m sure he’ll be the starter next year.

Slippery. Makes the car harder to control. Would be fun if there was no risk of sliding into a ditch, tree or other car.