Mikal

I kind of disagree a bit with uniform enforcement but do agree that it simplifies stuff. Some of these cases are so unique you have to almost treat them differently. 

That being said if uniform enforcement really does become a thing , I'm also okay with that. As long as it airs to free speech and the only thing mods interfere with are direct attacks that are relentless and doxing, etc 

I think I almost fully agree with Luna on ragnar. I think this all stems from how each mod perceives the TOS. Ragnar can fully admit locking that thread is stupid but does it anyway because he views this as a "tos violation". You guys need to really get off the letter of the law and look more toward the spirit. 

I can promise you , they are never going to give you an RO when you are provoking him equally. It's considered mutual engagement. If you actually feel harassed, you stop talking and request an RO. And if he continues with you absent from the conversation then they would likely grant it. 

The only thing you are doing now is proving his point (imo)

For context this is why mods will say they aren't going to give you a RO. You can't say you want an RO and mudsling back because you are engaging. Once again it gives the perception you want to be be able to backhand and passively insult people but be immune to them doing the same 

I think on balance I agree with most of this. Airmax already has ideas for targeted marketing and how to hit the google algorithm. Almost everything you just typed, he is familiar with and has ideas on how to implement it. Moderation being over zealous though, actually does cause harm and it's a large portion of why the site is the way it is. Why was DDO active because it had a massive core user base who loved to engage each other, debate, argue, fight, troll etc. The generic content that was created by having such an active core drove the site. Why are those people not here now? Some came over, and a lot left because of how overly moderated the site is. A lot of those core members contributed to DDO being successful because of the content, topics, and debates they were doing. Same issue applies with new people. Who is going to want to join a site if when they get into an argument, its almost asap thread locked if they get heated. Like face book comment sections are worse than the stuff that gets locked here

I do agree with everything you posted though, with the extension that once you get those people thoroughly advertising and marketing you need a culture that keeps them around. I told whiteflame this earlier, but I think moderation would be better off if it was arbitrary and based off his choices and what he thought was appropriate as head moderator. You can't always draw a line and enforce it objectively, each case is different and has aspects as to how it should be handled. Moderation needs to work on when to apply and not apply bans and lock topics and it's an easy fix

but yes everything you said is accurate past that. 

I want to advocate for all mod related choices to not be written by a tos but be at the discretion of a head moderator

here

White flame, post election

pls give me the honor to dance with you

Submission - RM wants a pp in the mouth 

Submission - And how fucking dare ANYONE out there make fun of RM, after all he's been through. He got banned, he lost his leaderboard position. He ran for fucking president, and the mods turned out to be abusers and gaslighters, and now he's being harassed. All you people care about is readers and making money off of him... HE'S A HUMAN. What you don't realize is that RM's making you all this money and all you do is write a bunch of crap about him. He hasn't debated in YEARS. He's called RationalMadman for a reason - all you people want is more more more MORE MORE. LEAVE HIM ALONE. You're lucky he even posts for you BASTARDS. LEAVE RM ALONE. PLEASE. *Wretched Sobbing*

Let's meep baby

Submission - catgirls stole my brain

That's literally not what I said at all. I don't even think you read what I said. I don't think RM is a problem. I was advocating for him not to be banned. I think moderation is a problem because it's totally arbitrary (which is understandable) but they air to the side of muting or locking instead of allowing things to play out. 

Yes the election matters. Especially with max running because he was over all the current moderators for around 7 years. They worked under him and helped him and he fostered a website that was active with his ideology. So getting someone in there that sets the groundwork for a strong culture will allow for growth. 

You can't host debate tournaments when there is no one to debate. You can't host Mafia tournaments when there is no one to play. The specific position max is advocating for and will achieve is working directly with the site owner to have targeted marketing so it brings people in. Once those people are in and once there are people then you host events and it can grow organically because of Google. 

I did a debate with Roy on DDO that got like 50k views. And for like 5 years I would get random messages from people on Google asking me my thoughts because they were doing a paper for school or college. You need people to be active and invested which is done through social connections and making friends and the organic part will grow naturally

That's why this site is dead. This site is not strictly a debate website. It's a social platform as well. Which is another big difference between this and DDO. 

half of ddo was debate, the other has was social events and threads. It's why the website maintained like 200-300 active users and why this website has like 10. There is no glue to keep people around 

RM from my perception as an outside opinion. If someone is attacking you and you feel attacked. Instead of attacking back and throwing shots back. Just say 

I have no interest to engage in this , pls stop. And don't touch it again. Don't post about him , don't mention him in any context and then if he continues to berate you. It logically makes sense for them to throw a RO or lock shit he says that is attacking you 

When you are engaging him and throwing mud back, you are engaging in the same behavior and that makes you a willing participant. 

No matter how you read that. It looks like you want to throw mud with him , but you don't want him to be able to attack you. If you are engaging in a argument with someone and throw adhoms yourself , expect to get them back. 

What Connor said. 

An attack is an attack, regardless of how it's presented yes. 

"Don't vote for RM. He's a whiny cry baby who is not stable. He does not deserve a vote since he can't properly pick up ques and how to moderate"

"Don't vote for max, he's a power hungry ego maniac who is only running to fulfill his lust for power and satiate his ego"

Those 2 are both technically call outs. Instead of banning everything like that, why not allow it (regardless of context) and let members defend themselves or ignore it. Do this until it becomes blatant harassment or just pure ad hominems. There is always going to be some level of a arbitrary standard with this and understanding when to stop it is key. That is what is lacking. 

Also Luna hit the nail on the head with this, because what it also does is reinforce to RM that he's allowed to make passive aggressive statements and attack people and then when people turn the heat back on him, he's always going to be the victim. He wants to be able to attack people without having it thrown back at him and this type of moderation reinforces that. Let people go at it until moderation needs to step in. That last thread was not near a point that warranted a lock 

If Luna was off calling him a snively cunt or attacking him and berating him, then obviously lock it. 

Easier to let max advocate for it as he would get it done more. I am sincerely curious about white flames thoughts as head moderator because there is no way he is that much of a snowflake.

At some point it's better to let things play out. Even if people are flaming each other in disagreement. That shit generates posts which is what the site needs. The more posts there are, the more it feeds into Google's search algorithm and at some point when you have more activity you are going to have people posting stuff that is relevant and not just flamey shit. Like people debating the presidency during an election and then google feeds people through here. It's why ddo was successful because it didn't filter stuff and it allowed for organic traffic. Moderation stops stuff that keeps people around and this place turns into a graveyard. 

Would you be opposed to kicking the thread if you were president and work with white flame to allow issues like this to play out until it became objective harassment

In your opinion was RM equally engaging in the exchanges and if so why not allow it to happen. 

Can you guys explain why it's locked , if it remains locked. I want an actual explanation as to what makes that harassment or a call out thread anymore than 2 members arguing with each other. 

Submission - RM is so brittle. Kind of pathetic that he wants to be able to attack people and then feigns the victim when people call him out. He is beyond fragile. 

Engage with me. Why is this done? I know you don't buy into this bullshit. Is it like a mod by mod thing where a certain mod can do what they want?

The locking of the thread below is primarily what is wrong with this site and why there is no activity, it's also why airmax should be elected. When 2 people are engaging in a back and forth and participating in it, let it go on. 

This is the type of over moderation that makes this place dull and a husk of DDO. At some point moderation needs to step back and let members handle their own shit until it becomes actual harassment. Who gives a dick if it's a call out thread. It's a debate website. 

Seriously ever major member I've talked to has the same complaint and if we start getting new members they are going to complain about much of the same. 

Let members handle their own shit and stop regulating it by locking threads. 

Submission - RM likes to be bullied. He is totally a sub irl. If you step on him and say airmax, it will turn him on. 

Submission - Luna is wrong. RM is right. Luna is a big bully 

Submission - RM is having a meltdown. He probably secretly pleasures himself to airmax. 

That was prob the most backhand mod slap I have ever seen actually. Almost gold 

I think you misread that. 

He was memeing rm, not critiquing you lmfao. 

Submission - Pie is a 2 face pig 

Submission - RM is just mad airmax didn't reply to him more. He needs a friend so bad and it shows. 

nm he already posted it after sending it to me xD

Submission - Airmax1227 is called the best mod of DDO because he didn't let any others moderate it, even when he should have. He is a workaholic bitchboy who only knows how to act all big and mighty when he has to win an election and charm somebody.

Submission - Of course RM would be a whiny (removing last part)

Submission - Supa is Gay

Submission - I respect diversity only to the extent the law requires.

Submission - Bring back Mr Chris 

Submission - Ilikepie is actually a libtard 

Also why he should be elected

One day in 2017, he was doing his normal thing and riding his bicycle home from work. (he does not drive because of emissions). On his way home he saw this one legged man asking people for money, and max approached him 

"What are you going to use the money for?"

..

"Beer and Drugs"

Max goes into the nearest store and buys the man (3) 24 packs of bud light. He noted that he could not get him drugs but gave him an extra 200 dollars to find some himself 

So why vote for max 

Because he lets you be yourself. 

Submission - it's a most genuine pleasure to hang out with you all 

Submission - Bring back the old Wylted, not this PC cuck 

Submission - everyone on here is whiny bitches 

Submission - Speed race is the best Mafia player on the site, lunatic fears him 

Submission - One time I sucked a pepe

Submission - RM dropped out because he couldn't win and wanted to make himself seem like the bigger man 

Submission - Everything about Airmax is perfect, expect for the fact he's a Packers fan

Submission - you a hoe 

DM me anything you want posted and I will post it. I reserve the right to make it pg. 

(Can send through discord or here)