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@Earth
If there are 3 mafia, why didn't the last mafia vote Luna?
We don't know if there are three but this is a point. I'm thinking there are two, I seem to remember Pie thinking that 3 SCUM is mafia-oriented although that may be false...
if not, one mafia was simply AWOL?
I doubt Grey, Supa and Speed are all mafia.
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I have no idea why Lunatic was the kill choice on scum side... I feel like with how hard I was pressuring Lunatic they would have wanted to create a mislynch out of it, and Grey straight up claimed a protective role so there was that lmao. Maybe they thought Grey was baiting them idk.I'm wondering if they killed Lunatic to implicate Oro, or if they're trying to implicate me/those who voted him. Or Whiteflame could be right and they just gambled that he was a strong PR.
Wait a second this makes sense now. I'm dumb.
Lunatic said he could confirm himself and the SCUM team must have believed him. Since he couldn't be a mislynch they elected to just rid of him entirely.
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But this overall puts us in an OK position.
Let me reiterate what I said last DP:
Should Lunatic flip town this helps us too: We know SCUM were probably already on the VOTE before you hammered since they didn't hammer, and we can narrow things down. I wouldn't sus you because you've been so reluctant to hammer whereas SCUM would be all over this in your shoes.
SCUM had hours to hammer if they weren't already on the lynch, and they didn't. I think this strongly indicates that the SCUM were already hopped on by the time I was trying to convince Water to hammer.
This was the vote count:
Lunatic (4/5) - Greyparrot, Speed, Chris, Supa
I'm the most TOWN confirmed of the group.
Grey claimed protective so he's 2nd most, but could still be SCUM.
Speed and Supa are the prime suspects.
This quote from Supa stands out to me:
Sure. Don't normally do this usually but I do have some sus on LunaVTL Lunatic
and Speed voted with no justification.
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Looks like I was wrong. I stand by Lunatic's tunnel being dumb, though.
I have no idea why Lunatic was the kill choice on scum side... I feel like with how hard I was pressuring Lunatic they would have wanted to create a mislynch out of it, and Grey straight up claimed a protective role so there was that lmao. Maybe they thought Grey was baiting them idk.
I'm wondering if they killed Lunatic to implicate Oro, or if they're trying to implicate me/those who voted him. Or Whiteflame could be right and they just gambled that he was a strong PR.
On that note, I'm not thinking Lunatic was a huge loss role-wise. I don't get why we'd want to limit ourselves to two options, however, Lunatic is typically a huge asset as a TOWN player in terms of just sheer contribution so that loss is regrettable to say the least.
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@Lunatic
Your reasons for accusing me of scum are 100% worse than me wanting to lynch oro who if town doesn't care about or want to solve the game.
Flatly untrue, btw. I find your tunneling to be far more scummy than Oro's oblivious town behavior.
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@Lunatic
Well, I guess you can't properly claim so close to DP2.
I'll be waiting to hear it ASAP.
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@Lunatic
You can't even refute my argument about how oro is trying to solve the game by ending the game on page 3.
I have responded to this.
while I of course agree that TOWN should want a lynch this DP, Lunatic fully ignores that SCUM want a mislynch and certainly wouldn't throw the towel for the DP yet. At worst, this makes Oro's case a FoS, not a lynch.
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@Lunatic
Someone unvote me. I will full claim and prove my role at dp2 start if needed. I could use it now but it would be a waste with one hour left.
If you do this I'll unvote. Why can't you claim it now? Would it be compromised?
UNVOTE.
I don't think we'll get a hammer anyway.
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@Earth
@oromagi
@WaterPhoenix
Plsssssss the DP is almost over.
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@WaterPhoenix
Should Lunatic flip town this helps us too: We know SCUM were probably already on the VOTE before you hammered since they didn't hammer, and we can narrow things down. I wouldn't sus you because you've been so reluctant to hammer whereas SCUM would be all over this in your shoes.
But I honestly think Lunatic is scum here.
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@WaterPhoenix
Pls hammer. The DP is about to end and we, for now, can afford a mislynch should I be wrong.
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@Earth
@Vader
@Speedrace
@WaterPhoenix
If Lunatic were TOWN, SCUM would have hammered by now.
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@Vader
IMO a better lynch than Oro. I'd hop on if I were you, before time goes up.
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I'm disliking Lunatic's tunnel on Oro, and I'm wondering about a WF - Lunatic scum team. He's making a big jump based on so little, and while I of course agree that TOWN should want a lynch this DP, Lunatic fully ignores that SCUM want a mislynch and certainly wouldn't throw the towel for the DP yet. At worst, this makes Oro's case a FoS, not a lynch. His insistence upon it strikes me as a SCUM player who wants to double whammy: get the mislynch, and get the mislynch by lynching the person who wanted to VTNL.
Since no one is helping me pressure WF,
UNVOTE
VTL Lunatic.
I await Lunatic's inevitable WIFOM in response.
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what in the lysergic acid diethylamide is this
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@Speedrace
You have yet to explain how bad plays = scum. Plenty of people play badly. Also I'm fairly certain he's claimed before in one of my games as BP
I've said this many times dude. Scum have been given a fake claim. SCUM Grey could insta claim whatever it is and rely on the "he claimed so he's town!" excuse all day ez.
Now, at this point I'd rather focus on Whiteflame and others but depending how long he survives my suspicion may grow once more.
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@Vader
You're objectively missing the meta of Greyparrot. His meta is too claim early. If he were to not claim, suspicion is drawn to him and he becomes sus'd out. Look at whiteflame's post where he talks about it. The point is Greyparrot was actually smart. Not revealing his role to leave mafia guessing while also not breaking his meta that he set for himself. Is it bad play/meta? Yes. But it is his meta and he sticks with it. If you weren't basically confirmed town, I would've scum read the shit out of you because I know you have made comments about his play before
Assuming Grey is actually TOWN:
- "protective role" means only one of a few things and no matter what, it's extremely bad for town.
- I don't know what comments I've made about his play or in what context I made them, but in this context Grey did NOT benefit town by claiming no matter how you slice it.
- you continually ignore that even if Grey only delayed claiming for one DP it would still be a net benefit to TOWN, and that most of TOWN would buy that he delayed claiming a DEFENSIVE POWER ROLE and veered from his meta to make scum's job harder. I fully disagree that Grey's fate would be immediately sealed upon not insta-claiming. I think while scum could have called attention to it DP1, to my knowledge Grey has gone through games where he's been town and not claimed immediately (and in them he was a PR) so I don't see any reason TOWN would lock on such a lynch ignoring a readily available explanation. This all is without accounting for the fact that shit goes down and some lynches take priority over others in mafia games. There is a large possibility TOWN could center on another lynch and let Grey slide for a while.
And if Grey is actually SCUM, you all can admit that I was right and Grey wouldn't be dumb enough to claim Doc/Some other protective role immediately, and that we're fucking ourselves by giving him a free pass every time.
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@whiteflame
I don't think you'd push for an early mislynch as scum since it would implicate you later.
You've been scum before, you know this isn't how it works. There is little risk to scum to mislynch early game, and I don't think Oromagi's pushed for a VTNL so early in a game as scum before. It doesn't implicate you much at all as scum to hop on a wagon a townie starts if you can justify why you hopped on, and if you initiate a mislynch based on technically false but sound reasoning the same principle applies... If any mislynch goes through, it was only because a plurality of town hopped on board with you and agreed with your reasoning enough to risk the mislynch.
I've never met a scum player that was so reserved as to not stick DP1 out and seek for a mislynch. We've not even gotten close to a point to where the scum team would want to give up on it, and even if Oro did want a VTNL as scum, I doubt his scum partner would agree...
On another note, your statements here are reminding me of the sort of fluff logic scum use to justify mislynches and see if wagons catch on.
VTL Whiteflame.
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I don't think I sus Oro for pushing for a VTNL despite disagreeing that we should.
Seems like an Oro move and frankly, I really doubt scum team would want to give up on a mislynch so soon.
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@Vader
So you are telling me that you are willing to go away with the entirety of his meta as town because he claimed a PR. Stop and think about that statement.
You're strawmanning me and avoiding my main argument.
Regardless it seems town as a whole thinks TOWN Grey is a lot dumber than I do. Maybe I'm wrong.
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@n8nrgmi
is this post unironic
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UNVOTE.
Now when Pie gets back on, TOWN will know I am confirmed as my role.
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@Lunatic
Except for the last two times he hasn't claimed instantly he's been scum...
The tradeoff is times like this. I think I'd rather have town give up on the meta and let Grey not claim every game immediately (unless he's HATED or MILLER or something) than to keep this up.
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@Lunatic
With greyparrot, you get what you get. You don't have to be happy about how he plays; but he will never change. He does what he does and often times without regret. I raged at him for months and even tried reccomending policy lynching him. He usually ends up town when he does this stuff. Grey is the the only one that gets a pass from it because you just can't reason with him.
If Grey is town I'm fr mad. Town needs to level with him and we need to permit him to change his meta without this "hE DiDn'T CLAiM so He'S ScUm" bs.
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Although there's a small danger of mafia quickhammer, it goes without saying that anyone who tries such a thing is insta-lynched next DP.
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@Lunatic
BTW what makes you think he's doc? He just said he was "protective." No one can or should counterclaim that safely DP1.
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@whiteflame
while I agree that it's anti-town, I don't agree that it's scummy.
We can disagree on that, but I don't get where you're coming from on scumreading Grey for holding back details and being slightly less anti-town than he could be.
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@Lunatic
@Speedrace
?? Why would you want to lynch a protective roleWhy you trying to lynch the confirmed doc bruh
- I don't think Grey is this stupid.
- I never said I'm pursuing a lynch.
"That does not give him a free pass to claim protective power roles DP1. We should pressure him so we can get an idea of whether this was town Grey being wayyyy dumber than he's ever been or if he is mafia counting on "bUt hE AlWaYs ClAimS" logic. There's another possibility but I want to keep that vague. "
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@Vader
If Grey were to not claim, you would instantly draw a suspicion. You also don't know if he can self protect. You're jumping on Grey too early.
Grey's goal, if he is a town PR, should be to go as long as possible without claiming. This is Mafia Basics 101. I refuse to believe Grey is dumb enough to think claiming protective role DP1 is a good idea, and likewise I refuse to believe no one would accept Grey stating that he veered from his meta to avoid claiming a PR DP1 later on (I know I would).
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@whiteflame
I'm not surprised that he claimed a protective role. I am a little surprised that he didn't immediately include that with his character claim and that he chose to keep whatever protective role he has vague. Those stand out to me as reasons to be at least a little sus of him, though his role is potentially confirmable, so I'll abstain from voting to lynch over it this DP.
I completely disagree sorry. Him withholding details is his one saving grace. The last thing we want to do is advertise lynch targets for free DP1, even Grey realizes this and we should NOT dismiss this as typical or acceptable.
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@WaterPhoenix
That does not give him a free pass to claim protective power roles DP1. We should pressure him so we can get an idea of whether this was town Grey being wayyyy dumber than he's ever been or if he is mafia counting on "bUt hE AlWaYs ClAimS" logic. There's another possibility but I want to keep that vague.
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I have a new job which requires my full attention throughout the weekend, so I'll be pretty inactive if this game stretches to that time.
Anyway, I am a PACIFIST. I can not hammer. TOWN should keep this in mind going forward.
VTL Grey for:
- claiming a protective role DP1 (when he is smart enough to argue over a vig's town utility +and use POE to eliminate me last game).
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Nah, it's recieved
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@Speedrace
I did too but Grey is hard to predict.
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@Bullish
put me in as a replacement if needed
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@Reece101
The last line of defense against tyranny is the People.
The first line is the counterbalancing institutions in the government itself.
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@n8nrgmi
Oh shut up. Just months ago the Dems were raving about how the vaccine was "rushed" by the FDA and was going to kill of all us due to Trump's ineptitude.
But Republicans have hardly been alone in their skepticism. When Mr. Trump was president, Democrats were more likely than Republicans to be concerned that the Food and Drug Administration was rushing the vaccine. Vice President Kamala Harris was criticized last year when she at first declined to say whether she would take the vaccine and said she "would not trust Donald Trump" on its reliability.
GOP men are stupid for this but don't play high and mighty, the Dems are just as guilty. All of politics is just hypocrisy nowadays.
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@Greyparrot
Bullish's response here pretty much confirms everything I've been saying.
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@Greyparrot
He hasn't been on DART in 14 hours. I'm 100% sure Bullish knew he'd be caught this DP and just checked out.
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@Greyparrot
Notice how the first thing Bullish tried to do last DP was earn some ignorant town points by asking how many scum were left.
Also notice how he threw a vote at you, then me, and then Speed in a few hours. Clearly just trying to get the mislynch and be done with it.
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