Total posts: 2,897
Posted in:
I vote the following.
USERS
Lunatic
Lunatic
iLikePie5
Intelligence_06
DEBATES
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
I'll nominate Intelligence merely for the sheer volume of contributions he has given on the debate front, and I also second the nomination of the following debates:
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Reece101
Can you please explain inaccurately?
I would say that it is accurate that I truthfully lie inaccurately
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Reece101
Will you tell me the truth?
I will lie truthfully. Except for when I choose to share the truth dishonestly.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
I have never spoken a lie, this statement is quite truthful.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Intelligence_06
There is no debt issue. It is a fabricated lie. Our government is very fiscally responsible.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@zedvictor4
Without a doubt
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Ultimately, the subjugation of the planet.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Shila
Why do you work for minimum wage?
I truly wish I was making the minimum wage rather than what I make currently. The minimum wage is entirely sufficient for me to fund all my endeavors, with plenty of room for cool things like vacations! if I was making minimum wage, and someone offered more money, I would surely refuse. In fact, it greatly saddens me that I make more than $7.25 an hour (the minimum wage in my state).
Created:
Posted in:
All in the title.
Created:
-->
@RationalMadman
interesting. I never type as an introvert, but I could see it going that way.
Created:
As far as I can tell, I am somewhere between ENTP and ENTJ.
But I've noticed an interesting trend, that as time goes on I balance out more and more on each trait. For example, my ability to appreciate, value and express feeling has really grown exponentially over the past few years. And I've always been a bit split between extroversion and introversion, since I will have bursts of boldness followed by hours of seclusion. I will always be solidly intuitive I think, but my split between being a P and J type is fairly even as well.
But I've noticed an interesting trend, that as time goes on I balance out more and more on each trait. For example, my ability to appreciate, value and express feeling has really grown exponentially over the past few years. And I've always been a bit split between extroversion and introversion, since I will have bursts of boldness followed by hours of seclusion. I will always be solidly intuitive I think, but my split between being a P and J type is fairly even as well.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Solaris1
So do you believe everyone believes the same principles, just enforces then differently?I could say everyone agrees on the same moral principles. What do you think of that?
You could say that. I think there are some fundamental axioms of truth that are more or less ingrained in our being. Individual or societal ethics based on those axioms may manifest in quite distinct ways though (via differing cultures and philosophies).
So, as you said, the Nazis also held the maxim that murder is evil. But they held that their extermination of the Jews was not in fact a violation of that maxim, whereas we now hold that it was. That is a moral disagreement in the sense that we dispute whether something was a moral violation, but it is not a moral disagreement in the sense that we are disputing a maxim of truth.
So, as you said, the Nazis also held the maxim that murder is evil. But they held that their extermination of the Jews was not in fact a violation of that maxim, whereas we now hold that it was. That is a moral disagreement in the sense that we dispute whether something was a moral violation, but it is not a moral disagreement in the sense that we are disputing a maxim of truth.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Solaris1
Your argument is purely semantic, and any objection to it would be, likewise, purely semantic. Operatively speaking, though, I think the common understanding of the phrase "moral disagreement" would encompass a disagreement of whether something constitutes a violation of a principle, like in your Nazi example.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mharman
It's a missions trip, primarily checking in on our church plants in Honduras, but also doing some evangelism.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@RationalMadman
yeah... we're going to have to be careful during our stay.
Created:
Posted in:
Unfortunately I cannot join this time. I'll be in Honduras for the next week or so starting Monday.
Created:
Posted in:
Kinda curious what led to me being so scumread in this game. Was it because I was being so forward with my reads?
Created:
Posted in:
There's fault to be had with town (including me) but that's mostly because we were flying totally blind. Literally luck of the draw almost.
Created:
Posted in:
I could get on board with Speed but it wouldn't be my first choice.
Created:
Posted in:
If we're voting one of the "functional vanillas" because of balance, we should be voting That2 for what I was citing earlier. Behaviorally they are more suspicious than GP by a lot.
At least with GP, his role reflects off of my own. He's also playing essentially to his meta.
And as far as sucky claims go, I'm wondering about WF's albeit I don't know much on this subject. Didn't the Seahawks completely demolish the Bronco's in a relatively recent superbowl? How are the Seahawks a mediocre team?
At least with GP, his role reflects off of my own. He's also playing essentially to his meta.
And as far as sucky claims go, I'm wondering about WF's albeit I don't know much on this subject. Didn't the Seahawks completely demolish the Bronco's in a relatively recent superbowl? How are the Seahawks a mediocre team?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@SirAnonymous
The most likely alternative to a town role that stopped the NK is that the mafia waived. But why would they waive? Not to try to fake town confirmation, obviously. Why then?
I'd say I've figured out why. The fact we can't find a town role that would've produced this NK result is further evidence.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
If and only if Wylted flips town would I assume that MisterChris is some sort of OP scum, and even then we could just try and lynch him a third time. Unvote and VTL Wylted.
So the plan is to mislynch Wylted then mislynch me, right?
Created:
Posted in:
After skimming the end of last DP again I'm still pretty confident that MisterChris is scum.
Even after I'm basically confirmed, Danielle treats me as scum. That2 + Danielle scum team?
Created:
Posted in:
The no NK makes semi sense, since a NK will place DP3 in MYLO/LYLO, activating MC to be lynched, if MC is mafia then mafia is 1 downWhy tf did Earth get lynched last DP? Last I saw was MC leading the lynch on Earth like he lead the Oro lynch, but I was away-too late to stop the lynch, why so much certainty that Earth was mafia instead of VTNLing like I did?
Not to OMGUS or anything, but That2's posts here are troubling.
First, yes, I did disclose that in MYLO/LYLO situations I can be lynched, because I figured disclosing that information would be generally harmless, perhaps aid in discussions of balance and help my credibility in the eyes of town.
First, yes, I did disclose that in MYLO/LYLO situations I can be lynched, because I figured disclosing that information would be generally harmless, perhaps aid in discussions of balance and help my credibility in the eyes of town.
It seems, though, that That2 is using my disclosure as grounds for creating a wagon as soon as MYLO/LYLO rolls around. It's possible the long term play of the scum team may be to mislynch me in MYLO/LYLO by framing me here. It would make sense as a strategy: everyone seems to sus me pretty hard behaviorally for one reason or another. Would take very little convincing on scum's part.
A boon to this theory is That2's latter comment fake-lamenting the fact Earth got lynched (and that I "led" this lynch like I "led" the Oro lynch) and the fact that no one no-lynched. They seem to be trying hard to paint me as the hardliner spearheading mislynch after mislynch against the will and common sense of town.
A boon to this theory is That2's latter comment fake-lamenting the fact Earth got lynched (and that I "led" this lynch like I "led" the Oro lynch) and the fact that no one no-lynched. They seem to be trying hard to paint me as the hardliner spearheading mislynch after mislynch against the will and common sense of town.
Created:
Posted in:
I'm sorry y'all. Yesterday was spent with friends/family and today I've been dealing with ATT tech support until now. Going to work in 10 mins. I'll be back to keep things moving around 12 am. Will post plenty to make up for it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
@Greyparrot
@That2User
@PREZ-HILTON
Let's finish this up while we have time.
Created:
Posted in:
I don't see why this is such a stalling issue for town. Earth was one step short of being counterclaimed, and his response is nonexistent.
VTL Earth.
VTL Earth.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@whiteflame
Does anyone else have a justification for their role that focuses on factors external to the team (e.g. fans)?
Mine is internally focused.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
I could see him as scum but it's less likely than SirAnon. Speed was on Barney last DP to the end. A move that doesn't really make sense as a scum player. Perhaps he did that out of inactivity or for a WIFOM opportunity, but it reduces the chance he's scum imo.
Created:
Posted in:
Now that I'm confirmed, I'd think that town would drop the GP lynch. it's a really dumb idea.
I'm willing to pursue SirAnon. WF is unlikely to be scum in my view.
I'm willing to pursue SirAnon. WF is unlikely to be scum in my view.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@whiteflame
@Speedrace
@SirAnonymous
My biggest question here is, why didn't MC immediately claim this, since it immediately town confirms him?
It wouldn't be 100% confirmation, but it would be pretty close.
Well, first of all because it gave mafia extra, premature information (I would instantly be a prime NK target and would be unable to help scumhunt), and my claim wasn't really needed at the time like it is now.
Second, like I was telling WF, I was operating under the assumption my lynch would end the DP. That's a mistake on my part, admittedly. But under that assumption I wouldn't really be confirmed if town had lynched me, as I could have also been someone with a vest type role.
Had I known that testing me wouldn't end the DP, i might have claimed immediately.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@whiteflame
Maybe part of his setup was an effort to create that even distribution. Maybe it wasn't.
I acknowledge this weakness in my hypothesis, and I have before (back in DP1 somewhere).
I think you're mistaking my rationale for being surety. I'm not certain of this at all. It simply seems to be the best point of exploration out of all other options to me.
And my rationalization does not translate to me being unwilling to pursue other leads. I just have not been presented any that compel me to abandon this one.
Mharman, would lynching someone who is lynchproof end the DP?The fact that no one has asked that yet, including you, is pretty suspect to me since it could easily have cost us a lynch.
I was operating under the assumption that that was a given. My role PM does not specify, but I thought this was how it functioned, because I seem to remember that being how it functioned in the past.
This is why I stated I was "OK with being confirmed." I'm allowing town to decide, knowing that our one shot for this DP could also be used elsewhere. You're also ignoring the value of having that confirmation. It's not as if confirming me is a "waste of a lynch."
This is why I stated I was "OK with being confirmed." I'm allowing town to decide, knowing that our one shot for this DP could also be used elsewhere. You're also ignoring the value of having that confirmation. It's not as if confirming me is a "waste of a lynch."
That being said, I also don't buy this notion that we need roles to balance each other out.
What? This is basic game design. Any good mafia game designer is going to try to balance roles as much as possible on both sides to ensure fair play.
If we buy That2's claim, that's 3 Vanillas so far, and I highly doubt that anyone else who is Vanilla would claim in response to your last major post where you asked "Is anyone else vanilla?" since that would necessarily reduce the pool of possible PRs for scum while providing town little to no useful information. Town could be populated by 4 or 5 Vanillas for all we know, which makes it all the more surprising that there is a Hated in this game, which is a negative utility Vanilla. Having a lynchproof makes more sense in a context where town has fewer PRs than does a Hated unless we assume a scum team with scant little in the way of PRs, though we "know" that they at least have an RB if we believe Earth's claim. In a game where there are a ton of town Vanillas, balancing out a lynchproof seems entirely unnecessary.
There is literally no world in a game (even non-role madness) that employed the joint efforts of Lunatic & Mharman that a 12 player game would have 4-5 vanillas. This is why I requested excess vanillas to claim. Having 3 is already a good amount. If extra vanillas came forward, that would implicate that some of those vanilla claims are scum. We would have a decent springboard to investigate further.
Is this your way of claiming vanilla? I don't see why you are making the assumption town is so weak that basic balancing mechanics aren't needed.
Is this your way of claiming vanilla? I don't see why you are making the assumption town is so weak that basic balancing mechanics aren't needed.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@PREZ-HILTON
That is actually suspect since my role counter balances GPs.
It isn't inconceivable for there to be multiple town nerfs, by the way. It may also be a way to compensate for the excess of vanillas.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@PREZ-HILTON
Invite VTL mrchris
you can vote me, this will only confirm what I'm saying.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
You are hated, so you require one less vote to be lynched. That nerfs town. My role counteracts that by preventing my lynch. That buffs town. Our roles even each other out. If you design a game, you make sure that the roles compliment each other and balance out across the board, so that town is not significantly nerfed compared to the mafia, etc. etc. That way the game can be "fair."
Basically, from a game design standpoint, it makes a lot of sense for you to be hated based on my role.
Basically, from a game design standpoint, it makes a lot of sense for you to be hated based on my role.
Created:
Why not.
Created:
Posted in:
It seems the general plan now is to lynch GP and pursue a full claim from me next DP.
It won't be particularly harmful for me to claim now, I don't think, as I don't really have a PR. My role does counterbalance GP's, however, and it legitimizes his claim a lot more I think.
I see no reason to avoid claiming this DP, because it could save us a mislynch and help redirect us to better options.
Anyway, I am the San Francisco 49ers and I am Lynchproof (except in MYLO/LYLO situations). My justification is that I am a team known for overcoming severe player injuries.
I am OK with being lynched this DP to sort of "semi-confirm" myself. I think it's pretty obvious how my role relates to GP's. It compliments it quite well balance-wise.
I am OK with being lynched this DP to sort of "semi-confirm" myself. I think it's pretty obvious how my role relates to GP's. It compliments it quite well balance-wise.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
I don't understand why you think this. There's no reason at all from what I can tell to think that theme split has anything to do with divisions. Why does 3 people in a division seem inherently scummy to you? At this point I think we have enough behavioral reads to go on rather than random guesses about theme (which have so far all been wrong).
Refer to my response to whiteflame above. Anyway It seems unfruitful to continue to argue this out for now... let me type up some thoughts now that Earth's role is seemingly revealed.
Created:
Posted in:
My justification is that I am known recently for my fan base that crowdfunded hospitals.
Nevermind... apparently he's doc
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
Would you rather pressure Earth, someone else or lynch GP and why?
I'm willing to shift the focus to Earth. He was one of the ones I sussed most in my original read post.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@whiteflame
It seems especially weird that he'd push this particular theory when noting that scum has a pool of fake claims, since that would give them opportunities to avoid being added to larger groups like this unless they claimed on the early side. I think his logic is mostly good aside from this, but despite being my slightest scum read, he still makes my list.
My strategy isn't really depending on any sort of theme split. It's moreso to do with character distribution. It seems reasonable to me that with 8 divisions and 12 players, each character will be (mostly) evenly distributed across the divisions. The scum team having fake claims is precisely why a 3 player group is more suspect. The scum team chooses a fake claim, and that fake character artificially inflates certain divisions with new players.
The fact that AFC West had no claims at all makes the theory that AFC West is scum viable. It's not provable (yet,) but it makes a lot of sense.
The fact that AFC West had no claims at all makes the theory that AFC West is scum viable. It's not provable (yet,) but it makes a lot of sense.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Is your only reason for voting them that they claimed vanilla?
No. That's a more insignificant part of it actually. The primary reason is the rationale I gave to Danielle:
"12 players, 8 divisions. It makes the most sense for players to be mostly evenly distributed [across the divisions]. 1-2 players for each division would be more than enough. The only division that was missing players entirely was AFC West. If I had to guess, I'd say scum is all from AFC West and they have been sprinkled throughout the other divisions through fake claims. I could be wrong here, but that wouldn't refute the fact that the divisions that are overpacked are most likely to contain scum."
Pie noticed that NFC West and AFC South include 3 players each.
AFC South included Danielle, Oromagi, and That2.
Oromagi is confirmed town, and Danielle is a strong town read.
That2 is heavily implicated by that logic. The fact that they have been so quick to push for a Barney lynch/OMGUS me, and the fact that their role as vanilla is suspect balance-wise doesn't help.
AFC South included Danielle, Oromagi, and That2.
Oromagi is confirmed town, and Danielle is a strong town read.
That2 is heavily implicated by that logic. The fact that they have been so quick to push for a Barney lynch/OMGUS me, and the fact that their role as vanilla is suspect balance-wise doesn't help.
Statistically speaking, That2 seems to be most likely scum.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
The large majority of your activity seemed premised on you always responding to other people, including reads. You seem to be doing much more independent analysis now, and even within your replies you're talking about other things. Feel free to show me other examples
This is pretty typical of my play. I like to start out by interrogating/interacting with others, and then supply reads/direct town based on both those interactions as well as whatever else unfolds over the course of the game. I'm not a believer in talking for the sake of it. I will usually only post/respond if it seems useful.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Also to follow-up about MC, I looked up and his activity seems to be based in more reply-based random town behavior, but he seems to be trying a lot harder this game relative to the history I looked up for him (recent players lmk if you agree), so I'm adding him to my sus list with Earth and GP
This is primarily because I haven't been on DART for 8ish months now. I'm kind of enjoying diving back into it.
The main reason I didn't respond to this before is because it honestly didn't seem that important.
By the way, what do you mean, "reply-based random town behavior?"
The main reason I didn't respond to this before is because it honestly didn't seem that important.
By the way, what do you mean, "reply-based random town behavior?"
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Can you explain your That read more? I haven't played enough with them and nothing they've done has struck me in a particular direction
If my posts above don't answer, I can elaborate. What in particular do you want an explanation on?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@SirAnonymous
That2's claim was dumb, but I townread it. I don't see why scum would claim without pressure or why they would claim vanilla.
It actually makes some sense if the scum team is using fake claims as-is. If the fake role That2 adopted is vanilla, now that 2 vanillas are confirmed, That2 has an incentive to claim earlier and establish themselves. They would be more suspect coming out as vanilla in late game I think, especially if others have claimed similar roles in the meantime. That's not a super strong rationale, but it fits.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
We need to head a new direction, keeping in mind that scum are likely hiding in NFC West and AFC South.Why do you think this? Because there are 3 claims from the division?
Precisely. They are using a fake claim pool, and so divisions that are tripled up are the ones most likely containing scum.
It seems based on statistical chance alone there would be higher chance of scum among us, but other than the mathematical probability I don't think the division has anything to do with theme split as far as I can tell right now. The two town vanilla justifications seem pretty different. On one hand Texans = vanilla because they are new and haven't won anything; on the other hand the Bears = vanilla despite being one of the most storied franchises in the NFL with two Superbowl appearances and one win.
12 players, 8 divisions. It makes the most sense for players to be mostly evenly distributed. 1-2 players for each division would be more than enough. The only division that was missing players entirely was AFC West. If I had to guess, I'd say scum is all from AFC West and they have been sprinkled throughout the other divisions through fake claims. I could be wrong here, but that wouldn't refute the fact that the divisions that are overpacked are most likely to contain scum.
I could see that2user's claim being legit vanilla based on all the teams in the AFC South being relatively vanilla, although it was anti town for him to claim that off the bat. He seemed a bit eager to go for obvious targets at the start of the day phase. I feel like scum wouldn't be so obvious and would try to let town take the lead at the start of DP2.
I doubt roles are being distributed by division. I can also see the claim being legitimate. I just think the chance that the claim isn't is rather high compared to the other options before us.
Still not sold on Greyparrot being town. Going after Barney seemed like a novice scum move given the OMGUS with Pie, unless it was a novice town move given the OMGUS with Pie lol. As noted I think Barney (Wylted) is likely town for aforementioned reasons. Greyparrot hasn't posted much regarding his reads and seems to be wanting to lay low and hope/wait for attention to be drawn elsewhere now that he's already claimed.
I'm actually pretty solidly convinced GP is town now based on my own role. Me disclosing that doesn't harm town significantly compared to the harm of mislynching.
Speed - null for now but very skeptical of him. Like I said last DP I could see Speed as scum swooping in later on in the game after laying low and being like "Hey guys I'm here, sorry I was busy before but anyways here's what we're gonna do" and then town just letting him lead their demise. He seemed interested in playing, saying he was gonna get on a laptop last DP or whatever but then hasn't posted much. He's also not really taking a position on anyone or anything so far other than potentially MC's activity level.
Speed's voting GP seems pretty left-field if he is scum.
Created: