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@oromagi
How does hyenas fit into either?
By "point" I guess I mean any way to justify their actions. WF talked about how they were "victim of circumstance" for example. I don't think it's likely that Speed is scum anymore, so it looks like we may need to be less rigid on the split.
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@oromagi
yeah a lot of these characters are flexible and changing. I feel like the best way to summarize the theme split is:
"Bad" people who actually had a point are town, & "good" people who actually had some screwed morals are scum.
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@ILikePie5
I'm the Grinch from How the Grinch Stole Christmas. My character sneaks into the Who's homes to steal from them, yet my hatred for the Whos is warranted because they treated me with contempt for being different. I also have a point when I say their Christmas is just being about material things.
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OH I learned something new.
The antagonist is always a character who has opposing goals from the protagonist. Even if the antagonist is not a bad character in and of themselves, he or she will put up obstacles that the protagonist must overcome. The antagonist, in fact, may be a heroic character such as a police officer who opposes the actions of the protagonist. An antihero, on the other hand, is always the protagonist in the story. Even if the audience does not agree with her or her actions, the audience is supposed to understand the antihero’s motivations and sympathize with this character.
OK if this is the case, I'm a town antihero too. I'm a villain that had a point, but is a protagonist under this definition. Frankly I just thought that anybody who was "Evil" was automatically an antagonist.
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As for where we go now... Currently trying to decide who is most worthy of pressure. Warren is pretty AWOL as Pie said, so maybe he's worth interrogating some...
Pie at one point suggested a policy lynch of the Miller should we not have anyone else. That may be worth discussing as well.
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@coal
Unfortunately that somehow ended up with our COP getting outed. Still, that wasn't a small contribution.
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@coal
I was one of the first ones to really put the pressure on Speed and get that lynch on the road.
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With just saying the holiday thing I've given away my character. It's pretty obvious.
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@coal
Let's just say that it's a holiday movie and leave it at that.
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Don't wanna give too much else. We've done a good enough job making town vulnerable this day phase already.
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@coal
This was just as true at 461 as it was when you initially VTL'd speed, so nothing changed objectively between then and now. Or if it has, you haven't pointed it out. Looks to me like you're getting cold feet about being on a wagon.
Right. I literally said in the post that I noticed & processed this after going back to check Pie's claim that Speed claimed long before we knew the split.
Believe it or not I'm not omniscient.
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@coal
Right now, MisterChris is who I want to hear more from.He has been hiding in the shadows. It's time to step into the light.VOTE: MisterChris
Not sure what you mean by lurking. If you just mean the past while, I've been working on this: https://www.debateart.com/debates/2761-resolved-the-benefits-of-the-united-states-federal-governments-use-of-offensive-cyber-operations-outweigh-the-harms?argument_number=1
So yeah. I've been busy.
But really I'd say I'm not lurking.... I've been posting pretty consistently today I'd say.
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Unvote.
With town so vulnerable, we've got to think about this more carefully now.
Pie's point about Speed claiming before we knew the split got me to look back, and Speed hinted literally within the first 10 mins of the DP about his role being multiple people...
It's not beyond Speed to fake claim multiple people as scum. But what I think IS beyond him is soft claiming multiple people within the first 10 mins of DP1, therefore limiting your options severely.
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Need a few more slots filled. We have time though, Lunatic's game is still early on ofc
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VTL Speed.
I'm interested in what WF has to say but Speed is by far our best scum candidate.
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@Speedrace
You do not know the theme split. You assume you do
We have multiple lines of independent confirmation, making you an undeniable outlier and by far most likely to be scum. It's in town's interest to lynch you, as even should you flip town, we can use that info to sniff out false claims more effectively as it'll give us a better grasp of the split.
Things would be different if you had a confirmable role, but this paired with your vanilla claim and the group thing.... yeah.
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So I'm torn on WF. I understand what he's saying, in fact I pointed this out as well while back... That said, I really can't think of any universe in which the character + role would be both denoted instantly. I'm thinking we lynch Speed, as if Speed flips scum WF's fate is sealed anyways. But if Speed is town, that allows us to interrogate WF next DP, and if his universe denotes his character + role as easily as he says when he claims, he'd be most likely town.
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@whiteflame
In a sense, the hyenas were justified: they were starving and Scar goaded them on with promises of being able to thrive under his leadership. That seems like a justification to me. I'm not going to get into my character, but I will say that mine is justified in a certain light as well. In fact, I'd say the same is true of everyone who has role claimed up to this point. They're not anti-villains (villains who do wrong for the right reasons), but they all do appear to be villains who were pushed to action by circumstances that were beyond their control.
True but I'm not certain this works, as the hyenas never had good intentions whereas I'm pretty sure most everyone who has claimed so far was good intentioned but misguided.
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These are the problems with your claim and justificationA.) You claimed 3 separate individuals as one whole groupB.) Everyone’s PM so far states that their character is a villain but their actions were justified by Lunatic in a perverted way. Yours doesn’t fit that per your own admission - more on that later below
This^^^^^^^^
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@Speedrace
NO. I said, I was weak, therefore I am a vanilla. I am NOT talking about the way Lunatic justified my actions
OK. We get why you're vanilla. But we're talking about how your character is considered town relative to the theme split.
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@Elminster
Yeah the fact that it's a plurality of characters def doesn't help.
I don't like the justification at all. We've been told from many people that their justification is that they were a villain that had some good justifications for their actions... Instead, his is basically just saying "you're not good at being a villain therefore you're actually not a villain".... That makes 0 sense.
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@3RU7AL
True. Still, it could be argued that the faction-building that it requires from politicians is a positive thing as it gets minorities heard.
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@Speedrace
Did you read what I said? I literally said the justification is that they were weak :|
but how does that even make sense given the info we have from town?
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Not sure we need any more claiming this DP. This is a lottt of info for scum.
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@Speedrace
No, it's just antagonistic characters, and the hyenas definitely didn't have a point lol. It says that the other animals have a high horse and that the hyenas were starving, but not that they weren't bad
Sounds like your justification is that the hyenas had a good excuse (starving and whatnot)... Interesting
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@RationalMadman
Yeah, it's interesting how many factions end up under the same umbrella under this two party system. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on who you ask
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@Speedrace
It briefly says I was banished for being different but doesn't really try to justify what I did
Isn't the town supposed to be antagonistic characters that actually had a point/weren't bad?
If you have no justification how does that make you town? Can you be more specific about what your PM says?
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@Vader
That's good. My senior year has def sucked. Wouldn't wanna add COVID on top of that.
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Your best fit is...New Era Enterprisersalong with 11% of the public.This relatively young, economically conservative, Republican-leaning group tends to be relatively moderate on immigration and views about America’s engagement with the rest of the world. Most say U.S. involvement in the global economy is a good thing and that immigrants strengthen the nation. As is the case with other GOP-leaning groups, a majority of New Era Enterprisers reject the idea that racial discrimination is the main reason many black people are unable to get ahead. Nearly two-thirds favor societal acceptance of homosexuality. New Era Enterprisers are less critical about government than other Republican-leaning groups.
Ehhh somewhat accurate. I'm pretty critical of the government, but the rest seems accurate.
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@coal
1. Who are you on DDO?
I don't have a DDO account anymore. I got on DDO in 2019 (Far after the site apocalypse) and got referred to here fairly quickly. I've been here ever since.
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@coal
Have I played live mafia with you?
Not sure, I've only done live mafia like once I think.
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WWII Nations Mafia:
1. Pie
2. Speed
3. Supa
4. Lunatic
5. Elminster
6. Whiteflame
7. Intelligence_06
8.
9.
10.
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@Speedrace
BTW, may be a bit inactive tonight. @Speed and I were going to do a debate (he can confirm)
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Anyways the theme split does look pretty set on antagonist town vs protagonist scum. No quarrel there
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Bruh why the hell are we so set on lynching Pie over not being sure on the theme? I sometimes type out a half-developed thought every now and again. I feel like this is just carping on something insignificant.
If Pie flips scum this'll look bad for me but we need a better read than that.
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WWII Nations Mafia:
1. Pie
2. Speed
3. Supa
4. Lunatic
5. Elminster
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
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@gugigor
@Undefeatable
@Elminster
you're invited to participate if you want
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WWII Nations Mafia:
1. Pie
2. Speed
3. Supa
4. Lunatic
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
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WWII Nations Mafia:
1. Pie
2. Speed
3. Supa
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
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@Vader
Yes ik. Should've said that in the original post
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