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Never seen the series, but I'll bite. What pic matches me?
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*sigh*
UNVOTE.
We need to decide on a lynch. At this point I'm okay with Warren, Oromagi, or Intelligence. My gut says to let Pie live for today, but my gut has been wrong before.
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Looks like there will be nothing productive tonight. I got school tomorrow so I'm probably gonna be inactive until the morning. If you want my view, here it is: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/4873/post-links/206379
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As it stands I'm willing to let Pie off the hook to confirm his role next day phase.
I really think we should refocus our energy on Warren and Oromagi. I would like to lynch one of the 3 provided by Supa, and now we have it narrowed down to two. That's a 50/50 shot right there.
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@Lunatic
Are you suggesting I shouldn't have claimed after someone else claimed JOAT?
No, he is actually defending you here.
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@ILikePie5
Wait... How could he have gotten results back for Danielle if she was the NK? Is that possible?
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@ILikePie5
So here’s what we do. VTNL todayTomorrow I’ll get confirmed cause I’ll visit one of the people who have an active ability. If they claim it never happened then y’all can lynch me. When I flip town, lynch the person who lied. I’ll be happy with a 1 for 1 trade
I like the plan, but add a vote Warren. He is my highest scumread, plus he is AWOL since yesterday.
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@Lunatic
How do we know he visited a power role that can confirm him?
Have him visit you.
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@Speedrace
Pie can obviously be completely confirmed. Pressuring him is completely anti-town
I think I agree. Not sure why he waited so long, but I'm willing to pass on a Pie lynch for now. UNVOTE
VTL Warren
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@ILikePie5
All of this aside, this revelation means you literally have no reason not to claim now. Do us all a favor and comply.
I agree. If you can't be roleblocked, why not just tell us?
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@Speedrace
It could literally work with ANY product, not just technologyEven if this was the reason for the justification, this is literally not even in Supa's PM. Like????
I pretty much consider any product of science technology... And I don't think you realize how huge of a reach that is. There is practically nothing in today's market that is NOT linked to some scientific school of thought (and yes, engineering is a school of scientific thought).
For instance, a simple pencil eraser is definitely a technology. It was developed. Invented.
So, RECALL:
"Just because something is an umbrella economic concept does not mean that it isn't practiced using tech concepts. How else are things going to degrade over time, if not having the technology designed to fail after a period of time?"
So while yes, planned obsolescence is an economic decision, it is carried out through technological means just about every time.
But anyway, it doesn't matter so much what you or I would label it as, it only matters what Bullish thinks... and there is no way for us to know such a thing. Plus, overall, it's a pretty weak read. I think if Supa were fake-claiming, he would choose something a lot less ambiguous in the first place.
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@Speedrace
Gotta say, after that whole controversy with Apple and their tech devices degrading over time, I buy it as a tech concept too. Just because something is an umbrella economic concept does not mean that it isn't practiced using tech concepts. How else are things going to degrade over time, if not having the technology designed to fail after a period of time? That's a tech concept, my guy
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@Speedrace
All fair points. I largely tuned out of your clash with Lunatic. I'll have to sit on those points for a while. What do you think of my theory in post 514?
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I will probably make a more substantial post on this later, but more and more I think Pie is probably town, and Lunatic & Supa are also town.
That would leave Warren and Oromagi on that list. Oromagi seems town to me too.
Ergo, I think Warren is a pretty good scum candidate.
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@Lunatic
@Vader
I might REALLY, REALLY regret this, but I'm going to townread Supa for now, and keep null on Lunatic. The defensiveness from Lunatic + Supa's appeal really read town to me, especially since scum would rather this devolve into an argumentative mess. After last game, I will never, ever trust Lunatic ever again, mark my words, but this really looks like town Lunatic to me so I'm going to prioritize more clear scum reads over him (I'm half-joking there, obviously).
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@oromagi
you are the first to ask, which demonstrates to me that neither supa or luna ever really thought I was scum in spite of making accusations. Of course, scum already know who is town and who is not and so sometimes forgets to ask for town credentials.
This is actually a really good point.
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@oromagi
=I'm okay with an Intelligence lynch, a Pie lynch, or a Warren lynch. I just want this day phase to be over with LMAO. We're going in circles at this point.
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@oromagi
Well, what is your character claim? You're the only one keeping secrets at this point.
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@ILikePie5
The only way i'm claiming the abilities is if pie full claims first.
You heard the man.
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*sigh* In that case, I guess I would like Lunatic to full claim as well. I'm really torn, because on one hand, we have 3 potential scum candidates (Oromagi among them, I might add), but Oro does make a good point... 2 JOAT claims is weird, I want more convincing. If Lunatic can provide a decent full claim then we can assess our situation better.
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@Lunatic
As you can see, Oromagi & Speed are trying to derail the conversation and turn it against you and Supa + advocate for a mass claim. I agree that the duel JOAT claims is weird, but again, we've been given a list of 3 people to investigate and they would rather lynch you or Supa it seems.
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Why are we even discussing mass claim? We've literally been given a list of 3 people who are potential scum with 1 GUARANTEED to be scum, and we're not pressuring/voting those people? WTF?
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@BearMan
People are lynching Pie for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
did you miss the entire last 6 hours?
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@Lunatic
No need to give gritty details about your powers... But I would at least like a character claim.
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
Are we just going to ignore that there are 2 JOATs? This is Speed’s game all over again.
No, we're not. Lunatic, what is your character & your justification?
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
@warren42
Pie needs to claim immediately.
I agree. VTL ILikePie5
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
Let me ask you this. At this moment are both me and Warren scum, am I the only scum, or is Warren the only scum?
Looks like my gut was right. Either Pie or Warren is scum. It can't be both
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@Vader
Last night I used my Dreamer ability and it said one of the 3 is scum. Oromagi, Pie, or warren.
This is very helpful information. I think a pie lynch & subsequent warren lynch if that does not work?
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@ILikePie5
If Intelligence is telling the truth then Skitlez will be confirmed town
That's true. Do you think it's worth an Intelligence lynch just to confirm/expose the both of them?
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@ILikePie5
So it’s a 50/50 shot that you’d take a power role out and you’d be fine with that?
Hell yeah. A 50/50 shot at scum? That's a no-brainer.
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@ILikePie5
That said, Intel is looking more and more scum as this day phase goes on.
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@ILikePie5
1. Your activity is an indicator yes. Typically when you are proactive you are either scum or a town power role
2. You have been very trigger happy I think. That might just be your normal town play, though.
3. Between the two of you, I think you are more likely to be scum than Warren.
This isn't to say you're a particularly STRONG scumread. You're just the best I got.
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@Lunatic
What changed? Wasn't the whole reason you counter claimed him was because you thought the logic about multiple vanillas in a rolemad game was scummy?
This is what changed. He gave us a headroom of 4 vanillas. Plus, the more I think about it, the less Warren claiming vanilla as scum makes sense... I'm maintaining suspicion on Warren, but he is nearer to null territory rn for me.
This is actually another reason I scum read pie, for the exact reason you mention. Just because bullish confirmed that rolemad may allow for vanillas, doesn't mean that his initial FOS on vanillas were wrong, yet he dropped sus on you guys both to a null after bullish said that. It feeds more into my theory that warren and him are a scum team, because the interaction between the two seems contrived as fvck, especially considering how warren town read pie.
Duly noted.
Problem is, Pie only asked Bullish to clarify only AFTER I pressured Pie on it quite a bit.
Was he expecting push back, or was he going to ask Bullish for clarification anyway and decided to delay for more town cred?
Neither of those make much sense. Warren was inactive for a while, and it seemed to me like Pie was entirely willing to lynch him within that time. He had no reservations about it at all, which seems like unnecessary risk for the scum team. I mean, who was to say everyone wouldn't just go along with it before Warren got back? I probably would've if it weren't for the fact I'm vanilla.
Plus, if they were scum team, why not have Warren claim something not so scummy? Something obviously fitting the rolemadness. I mean, Bullish said he would be hinting as to which roles were available for the scum team to claim... Pie is smart, so why would he take that risk?
The only other possibility was that since Warren hadn't read the day phases, he simply false claimed something random without really thinking about it too hard because he was worried, and Pie just bussed him from there. From my limited experience with Warren, doesn't seem like something he would do.
The only other possibility was that since Warren hadn't read the day phases, he simply false claimed something random without really thinking about it too hard because he was worried, and Pie just bussed him from there. From my limited experience with Warren, doesn't seem like something he would do.
It seems to me that either Pie is scum, or Warren is scum, but probably not both. I'm really leaning towards Pie.
You don't find it odd that warren basically said the same thing you and supa are saying but decided to go with a town read instead?
I find it odd, yes. That is part of the reason that, even though a Pie/Warren team doesn't make much sense to me, I think it is worth maintaining some suspicion on Warren.
Of course, it could just be a genuine town read for him. If Pie is 50/50 scum or town power role, Warren could certainly make the case for town Pie based on nuances in behavior.
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@Lunatic
Warren- null at the moment.
If you'll recall what I said to Pie and Supa:
Well, even though Pie was wrong that "no one can be vanilla," the mod has said that there must very few non-power roles.If that's the case, it makes more sense to me to have one vanilla... not two. But I could be wrong about that. It's clear Bullish is defying our expectations here.
As for the possibility of him and Pie being a team... his argument for Pie being a townread makes sense I suppose... I'm just not sure if it's an argument expected from him given the current situation (keep in mind I've not played with Warren at all. I don't know what his meta is for town or scum).
Pie- Pie is my biggest scumread at the moment, because he is lining up pretty closely with how he was in the Naruto mafia game.
Furthermore, I pretty much agree with Supa's analysis:
Behavioral analysis for Pie for me if he's active he's a power role or scum for me. So he's one of those two.
If we have even a 60/40 shot he is mafia, I'll take it.
Supa- Supa seemed a lot more hesitant to drill into Warren and me for our vanilla claims than Pie was. He also has been pretty protective of Skittlez, who has come out as town. I townread him right now. In fact, he has been so insistent on wanting evidence for lynches, it's a pretty strong townread from me.
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@SirAnonymous
This debate was okay, but it was better back when Chris wore his stylish black hat from the 20s that made him look like a mafia hitman. Still worth reading, though.
LMAO. This is brilliant. +1
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Game like this there can be 0, 1, 2, 3, possibly 4 vanilla towns.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand case in point... Bullish is just messing with us at this point lmao
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@Vader
@ILikePie5
WhyBut I don't get why you would think only 1 vanilla.
Well, even though Pie was wrong that "no one can be vanilla," the mod has said that there must very few non-power roles.
If that's the case, it makes more sense to me to have one vanilla... not two. But I could be wrong about that. It's clear Bullish is defying our expectations here.
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@Vader
? I literally claimed then Voted him. I'm vanilla, and I doubt there are 2.
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@ILikePie5
What? If it’s rolemadness then there shouldn’t be a vanilla. I wouldn’t have played if it wasn’t rolemadness.
I don't care if you would have played it or not. The literal definition of role madness is "a type of game where most or all of the players have power roles"
When did he ever endorse your so-called bulletproof definition of having "absolutely no vanilla roles ever?"
In fact, it has demonstrably been the opposite. Bullish has had rolemad games in the past with vanilla.
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@ILikePie5
He never said it was going to be a role madness game. The most previous quote from Bullish makes it very clear what he considers role madness and what he doesn’t.
Yes, he did.
"Memes of the 2010's Mafia is a themed rolemad mafia game with role flavors."
Your other buddy Intelligence already came out to defend him cause of panic. You have to double down on it. Warren, Chris, and Intelligence. Confirmed
That's not "doubling down to defend," that's bussing him, remember? You're logic is so convoluted at this point it makes no sense.
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@ILikePie5
You realize the whole point of including a vanilla would be to SUBVERT expectations right?
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@ILikePie5
It’s an effort to bus.
That's not my point. My point is it is an extremely STUPID effort to bus. A better way would have been to just jump on the train to lynch him and claim something less stupid later on.
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