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@iamanabanana
Alright, I disagree but you have plausible reasoning. I seriously doubt that gladiator is going to be a scum role, but I don't think we'll be lynching Austin this DP anyways so I don't scum-read you for your opinion.
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@iamanabanana
Okay, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying in some respect.
Why is Austin in your PoE though, he claimed gladiator which is a confirmable role?
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@WyIted
I wasn't exactly softing my role, I just compared it to the escape artist role in the sense that role confirmation is 95% of the way to affiliation confirmation.
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@iamanabanana
I get that he's pretty relentless with the same argument, but you wanted him to back off on the ground that you know you are town. I understand the first part, but then you use the worst justification for wanting him to back off.
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@Mikal
So why is Austin more of a town read than me if we're both role confirmable?
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@Mikal
The bottom three are there from POE because I think most others are currently more town or have reasons to trust them for the moment. Austin for example. We can confirm his role but that also is not AI.
My role is confirmable too, why am I in your bottom three?
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@iamanabanana
Meant to include my response to you in that last post. It's the worst possible defense a town player can make essentially. Everyone "knows" that they are town, but the rest of us don't know that. I can make the same defense now by saying "I know I'm town, so don't lynch me!"
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@WyIted
@iamanabanana
I can do it now if we get enough people to cooperate. It's only role confirmation, but you'd have to be a bastard mod IMO to make this a scum role. It's kinda like my escape artist role last game in that it could technically work as scum, but it defeats the purpose of the game by making scum harder to be lynched.
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@Mikal
I don't like any of our options right now, but if I had a gun to my head, my PoE pretty much comes down to Earth. Austin's participation makes me at least null read him, and I don't scum-read you enough to want to push a lynch on you, which I would never get anyways.
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@iamanabanana
I notice how you center most of your reads around Mikal. Casey is town for you because they challenged Mikal, and I’m town for the same reason.
This seems town to me, but you’re definitely going too far on this Mikal read. I agree that it’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly something anyways. We’re not lynching Mikal this DP, so I’d just store it away for future use.
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I’m on my phone so I’m just posting things as I see them instead of one long post. Right now I’m on Banana’s reads
I know I am town, so why should I have to spend so much of the day phase trying to defend myself, especially when the reasons just aren't very good to begin with.
This triggers some alarm bells with me. Aside from it being the worst defense ever, it seems like it could go one of two ways, a horrible scum play, and a town slip. I’m still not sure what I think is more likely.
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My reads are always surface level. I suck during DP1.
Anyways, I'm going to bed now. I'm gonna be so mad If I wake up and have to read like 10 more pages of this DP.
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@ILikePie5
I’ll give you a hint. Mislynches
Are you saying that I scum slipped by calling them mislynches? Because that's not what happened. This is what I said:
Yeah, I think you might be onto something. I wouldn't blow it out of proportion, but it's weird that 4 of his original five are clear mislynch targets. Like I said before, there's reasoning for three of them, but the fact that Banana got lumped in with them with little explanation makes me reconsider the whole bunch.
I was thinking through the scenario in the eyes of Mikal if he was scum. I was theorizing that if Mikal was scum he would see those four of us as easy mislynch targets. Besides, I was part of the four, so I wouldn't call myself a mislynch.
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@Mikal
That and the omgus recently giving a little more credence to that.
I just don't think there was an OMGUS though, this...
If posting little is a scum tell, you will scum read me in every game we play. I’ve probably posted twice as much this day phase than I have in most normal games entirety. I am a busy person and most people here know that I’m not super active. I’m trying to be better at it, but don’t expect me to post as much as you, or even a fraction of it.
does not feel like an OMGUS
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@Mikal
1) Ana is not an easy mislynch. I’m the only one scum reading her2) sure earth may be an “easy” mislynch but I stand by his behavior is anti town and I don’t fully buy his claim3) Casey - at the time I am not even sure if Casey was an “easy” mislynch. Again was the only one scum reading him because of the weird timing of when he started actually playing the game4) inactives- this is the best case for an easy Mislynch but you tell me how to deal with people that are not playing other than pressure or just killing them. Having Luna replace is like the other alternative. But yeah someone not typing for an entire day phase is Defacto a detriment and if you read my ddo games or have played with me online. I have vigged people for that for giggles
I've got no problem with your justification for Earth, Casey, and inactives, but once again I don't see justification for Banana. The rest of your scum pile is fine on it's own, but it's the presence of banana that makes me start to doubt the whole of it.
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@ILikePie5
Well it's DP1, so my reads are just me committing to words what's bouncing around in my head. It's not like I'm going to want to Lynch Mikal, but that said, what he's doing does seem like an easy scum play. I have no problem lynching inactives, but putting only inactives in your scum pile seems a little scummy.
I've got no problem with the Earth Lynch or with Mikal's justification for it, the really confusing thing is banana. I didn't see any good justification for why banana should be scum-read other than "inactivity" which 1. is on point for banana, and 2. isn't even that bad compared to the other three. That leads me to believe that Mikal maybe slipped a little and lumped banana into his scum-pile with the others because she's new-ish like me, and wasn't the most active.
From what I can see, banana has been active enough and has acted townie enough to give her a null at least. If Mikal could back up his reasoning, then that's another story, but all I've seen is "inactive" and once Banana pushed back a little "OMGUS"
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@Casey_Risk
Yeah, I think you might be onto something. I wouldn't blow it out of proportion, but it's weird that 4 of his original five are clear mislynch targets. Like I said before, there's reasoning for three of them, but the fact that Banana got lumped in with them with little explanation makes me reconsider the whole bunch.
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Also, do I need to claim? Because I've been getting some mixed messaging about that. I'd be happy to full claim if that's what most people want, but really my role is the only thing that seems necessary to claim right now, and I don't think I have that many votes on me anyways, so I'm not sure how much pressure is on me. If people want me to claim then I'd like to see a show of that via VTLs.
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All caught up now, the main thing that stands out to the is this Mikal/Banana thing. I was confused about Mikal having Banana in his town pile in the first place, but the fact that he doubled down harder after Banana (calmly) challenged it and called it OMGUS really confuses me. Most likely scenario is both people are town and this is just a misunderstanding, but Banana comes out of this looking better than Mikal IMO.
I'm fine with pushing inactives so I'm not surprised that Austin and me were in Mikal's scum pile, and he had good reasoning to go after Earth, but I haven't seen as much of that for Banana. It was pretty much just "Inactive" at the start and "OMGUS" after Banana pushed back a little. The first three I mentioned in Mikal's scum pile make sense to me, but the fact that Banana is in there makes me reconsider the whole scum-read as someone trying to push easy mislynches. Not that I think that's what's happening, but it's more likely than Banana being scum at this point.
I honestly don't see what Banana did to be guilty of OMGUSing, and the fact that Mikal is doubling down on this one accusation feels a tab bit like pushing some newer players and inactive players into easy mislynches.
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Just realized I haven't softed yet and I might as well at this point. I'm pre-Y2K
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tbh if I am the last surviving town, then town played poorly.
Earth even said it himself
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Posting as I'm reading and I just saw Earth's claim. My initial thought was that we keep him alive to see if he gets NKed. He claimed a pretty obvious role for Mafia to target, but then I kinda realized that he only needs to be dead by the end of the game, and the way things are looking it seems like he's more likely to get lynched than be the target of the NK.
The justification is nice, and survivor feels like an obvious one to be on here. Earth was my #1 Lynch target up to this point, now I'm less sure, but still okay with lynching him this DP.
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Okay, basic reads...
Mikal - Lean Town, he's active and a town leader which tracks pretty well with his playing last game. That said, all I have to go on for past behavior is one game, so maybe I'm wrong on his usual activity
Casey - Posts have been cooperative with town, and it feels like they're working for the benefit of the town. They've called out some scummy behavior I noticed too, and I agree with all of their logic. They've been vigilant in scum hunting and very active also.
Pie - Slight Town, I've got no reason to scum-read him, which is usually a good sign with pie. His behavior seems pretty stereotypical town, which isn't much because that's something I feel like an experienced player like Pie could easily fake. The one thing that does seem weird to me is the lack of aggressive activity. Pie is usually a pretty aggressive player, and he's been doing some of that, but mostly on Earth and other inactives like me. I usually see him doing more scum hunting from the people who are playing the game, and I haven't seen as much of that yet.
Savant - Slight Town I've been trying to remember his past games, and I've never really seen him be as active or give as detailed reads, which leans a little towards town for me but I'm not entirely sure what to make of it. He's also been pretty helpful to the town, seems to be pushing claims and providing reads for the sake of the town, not for any scum reasons.
Mharman - Null, he's posted enough but the posts haven't leaned either way too much for me. I wasn't paying the most attention to him though, I might have to go back and take a better look at him. I seem to remember he was more active though. I wouldn't call it lurking fully, but it's maybe approaching that?
Banana - Null, not enough posting. The opening fluff posts seem slight Town and there were a lot of real posts on that seemed genuine, like 198 and 199
WyIted - Slight Scum, He's surprisingly been normal behaviorally this game, which is very abnormal for WyIted. He's been participating and playing the game and has avoided his usual random fluff. This is completely behavioral, so he's definitely not on my short list for lynching, I just moved him slightly down from null for the different than usual play style, at least from my POV.
Whiteflame - Slight scum, He was a little more reactive to Mikal's pressure early game than I expected from him. He's usually a bit more even and laid back, while still posting. His post #234 reads seemed a little bit like they were trying to fly under the radar too. He null read a lot of people and had no real scum reads. Feels like he might be trying to go unnoticed while still posting and let his scum buddies do the pressure. Still just a slight scum read though.
Earth - Lean scum, He's acting behaviorally pretty normal with the lack of posting, but when he does post he gets a little more OMGUSy than he normally is. 215 & 221 are good examples of this. I'm willing to Lynch due to him potentially being a town liability. DP1 doesn't have much use when it comes to lynching scum IMO, so it's not scummy to want to Lynch inactives (like me) just like it's not really that scummy to push a miller Lynch DP1, or another negative utility. The main problem here hasn't been lack of activity, it's been a resistance to provide more activity when pressured for it.
This is after reading up to page 10. I'll keep reading, I just wanted to post something to show I am playing.
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@whiteflame
Yeah I don’t mind claiming when you guys want me to, that should be expected at this point. I will say off the bat that I’m 90% sure I’m confirmable.
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So sorry for not being active at the start of the game, I was camping this weekend. Reading the DP now, I’ll be much more active today and tomorrow to make up for it.
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@AdaptableRatman
I’m not a Christian, but yeah, you’re mostly right. I don’t disagree that some sects are closer to being a religion, but at least for my definition, some sects are closer to philosophy. It’s not black and white, it’s more of a spectrum. Buddhism is on average, closer to a philosophy than a religion, but it’s not fully either.
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@AdaptableRatman
I guess we just have different definitions of religion then
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@AdaptableRatman
Okay, one sect does, but the fundamental teachings of the religion as a whole is pretty atheistic.
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@AdaptableRatman
Call it what you like, but by my definition it's definitely a philosophy. For me, religions need a belief in the supernatural. Buddhism doesn't have that. It's atheistic and is solely about what we humans should do with our lives on earth.
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@Mharman
So to recap, I'm not town confirmed because in the unlikely event of a scum redirector, I could have randomly chosen to redirect pie for reasons unknown. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I'm 99% town confirmed, and I'm 98% sure Whiteflame is scum. I get that you want to take this slow, but it's just so random that it seems pointless.
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@Mharman
Well how could I have had that strong a read on him to be sure enough of his role to spend my action redirecting him.
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@Mharman
Even more to my point. Why would I choose someone who I didn't know the role of and redirect them to someone randomly?
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@Mharman
In the situation where I'm scum and the redirector, it frankly makes no sense for me to do what I did. I would have known Pie was a cop, and statically it's more likely from my POV that he picks a town member than me. My best course of action would be to redirect him to me, and get an easy mislynch, but that didn't happen. I somehow knew that he would cop me, so I used a whole action working on the assumption that he was going to cop me, and I redirected him to someone I knew was town. It doesn't really make sense.
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@Mharman
Let's think this out then. If there is a redirector, who's the best Lynch?
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@Sir.Lancelot
Buddhism is a philosophy that westerners misinterpreted as a religion. It's really more akin to stoicism, or another Hellenistic school of greek philosophy.
Frankly though, it misses some things as a philosophy too. While it's correct that suffering stems from desire, it forgets that happiness also stems from desire. Desire fulfilled is happiness, desire not realized is suffering. If you take out desire completely, you aren't left with peace or nirvana, you're just left with nothing. It's like swallowing some dynamite to cure cancer. Sure it works, but you kinda missed the point.
As for Hinduism, it's the same as all other major religions. It's a cool story, but is there any evidence?
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@Mharman
But is it likely? I know it's on the list but do we have any reason to specifically believe it exists?
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As far as I can tell, Banana has to be town because of this double-voting gambit, and if she isn't somehow, she gets lynched this DP because we see that her vote only counts for one. Pie copped me and flipped town, so that leaves Whiteflame, Luna, and Mhar on the table. Whiteflame claimed to have RBed both Luna and Mhar so neither could have done the NK (if WF is telling the truth), but if Whiteflame is lying then he's scum anyways.
I don't see any other way around this.
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@Mharman
the thing that gives me pause is how ready he is to self lynch. I want to take our time this DP. This game has been quick.
That's just behavior reads. We've been well past that for some time.
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@Lunatic
@Mharman
@iamanabanana
Okay, so I think we have the game solved here. If everyone's okay with it, Banana pulls the trigger on whiteflame and confirms herself. There's no way whiteflame is town at this point, so I say we just go for it.
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@Mharman
Okay, so that just leads me to believe that whiteflame is scum even more. You and Lunatic both can't be scum because the same thing happened to both of you. Whiteflame has to be lying then.
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@Lunatic
Okay, so realistically I probably get NKed (which I'm totally fine with), and whiteflame gets lynched. That leaves Banana, you, and Mhar. The game comes down to Banana then. I like those odds. If we can come up with a better three player setup for the last DP though, let's hear it.
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@Lunatic
Exactly. It doesn't really matter if Whiteflame is town or not at this point. The game is essentially solved, unless I'm missing something.
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@iamanabanana
Good. Wait until mharman gets online, but ultimately I still think we should do this. Your call now.
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@iamanabanana
stand by for your ability, make sure no one hammers, we want to confirm you too.
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Nonetheless, I’m the clear lynch this DP so here we are.
Well you definitely were during the last DP, but now we're almost as MYLO. I guess we've got one more DP though.
Nobody VTL yet though, we need to get banana to use her ability so we can get two confirmations.
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Just skimmed the DP, this seems like an obvious choice.
White flame lynch pretty much solves the game. It doesn't matter if he's town, (I believe that's a possibility) because there's no one else who seems scummy enough to outweigh the benefits of mislynching white flame. If we get it right, we win. If we get it wrong, we town confirm two more players by using Banana's ability.
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Okay, that’s an okay claim by Pie, I’ll take it for now. He generally goes in my town pile. I didn’t like that he held off claiming for so long, but it’s on point for his play style so it wasn’t a surprise.
I also townread him behaviorally for his attitude towards That2 in DP1 as stated before. His role is also expected in this game and he hasn’t really been CCed so that’s good enough for me.
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