Mopac

https://reasonabletheology.org/was-christ-copycat/

Literally debunked by the website you got the picture from.

From Paul's epistle to the Ephesians...

"For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

You don't really understand the "spiritual platform" well enough to say that it is not viable. 

Maybe the questions you ask are a reflection of you not understanding the "spiritual platform", and my answers are an attempt at adjusting your course.

But if you would like to refresh me on your question, we can try again.

Interestingly enough, the Greek word for heresy(it is actually a Greek word) literally means choice, used specifically in the context of self choice in favor of contention or strife.

I would recommend Orthodox Christianity.

You of course can choose whatever you want. You have free will, after all.

I am telling you what the church teaches in a way that is intended to NOT be mysterious. 

So if you believe what I am saying, well....

The Ultimate Reality is God. 

If you want to see The Truth, purify your intentions, rid yourself of vices, and love the truth above all else. If there is any way to see The Truth, this is it. What other alternative is there? 

Reason is not going to compensate for perversity. In fact, it is very easy to rationalize anything, which in itself is evidence against reason being propped up as an idol before God. Is the effectiveness of sophistry and rhetoric not clear evidence of this?

What more is there really for me to say? We are at the top of the slide. If you don't have the faith to go down the slide, you are never going to know what it is like to experience going down the slide.

Are you taking this discussion seriously, or are you simply using this as a way of mocking?

I am personally having trouble believing that you are being honest, but I will at least take your word for it. If I am wasting my time and efforts trying to help you understand, plesse tell me.

This is an admission that the above statement is not true.

If you really love God, you will strive towards purity of heart. If you do not do this, you do not truly love God, but are simply puffed up in your own pride and understanding. 

I have said before that "Brahman" might be an appropriate translation of God in India. Likewise, Tao might be an appropriate translation of God in China.

The concepts mean the same thing even if maybe they are understood differently in these diverse cultural manifestations.

But to clarify the first question, can you quantify honesty?

Quanitify success?

Can you quantify integrity?

I do not say that god= YHWH

I say that God = YHWH

Because believe it or not, "The Ultimate Reality" is a legit English translation of that name.

No

You should just go with that.

After all, I'm just talking nonsense.

If what I am saying is true, it should be expected that both of you, socialists, would not be aware that I am not making a straw man, but that you have been both duped into buying into a materialistic philosophy that will not save you.

To you, this is a meaningless string of words. That is why you lack understanding. 

I know my God, it is The Ultimate Reality. You don't know my God. If you knew my God, you wouldn't fight my God, because you would know the futility of it.

I don't accept god as a fact. I accept God as a fact.

Because without God there are no facts. The Truth must exist.

Look, I am not interested in debating the false dichotomy of a theory of how economics works and the government trying to enforce anarchy.

If you want to sell your country over into totalitarianism, go ahead. Don't be shocked if it doesn't look like how you imagined it to.

And what better way to exemplify this than a state monopoly.

It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that all the atheists here are commies.

State enforced anarchy.

Lol

It isn't that I can't explain, it is that my explaining would be in vain!

Everything that I am saying is obviously true, but that won't stop people from struggling!

If The Ultimate Reality is God, God exists.

The Ultimate Reality is God.

An impure heart(nous) is going to be perverse in all its perceptions and reasonings.

Purify the heart(nous) in order to perceive clearly and have discernment!

And the heart is not purified by man's effort alone, but by the grace of God and the cooperation of man.(synergy)

A definition of faith according to Merriam-webster....

"something that is believed especially with strong conviction"

Facts very often times play an essential role in believing something with strong conviction.

For example, me accepting God as a fact helps me have faith in the discipline of purifying the heart.

Never claimed such a thing. Wouldn't claim such a thing.

My position about atheism has always beem that it is either the result of ignorance or petulance.

My position about socialists is that they are unintentionally on the side of those they think they are working against!

Not surprised

The spirit of socialism is the idea that if you don't have anything but somebody else does, there is nothing wrong about robbing them.

The spirit of socialism is covetousness.

And it simultaniusly appeals to people's sense of greed, entitlement, and even compassion! Very dangerous.

You can't really force people to be charitable. The real issue has and has always been a spiritual one. Socialism is materialistic at the core, it is blind to the spiritual things.

The church does not condone the murder and persecution of people for their beliefs. You attribute the actions of heretics to the church. You also attribute the actions of governments that persecuted the church at times to the church. This is a type of identity fallacy. Regardless, this is a deflectionary tactic to obscure the fact that socialist countries are by nature the enemy of the church because they consider religion to be a form of oppression equal to or greater than the guy who owns the sweat shop.

Noumenon is not God. The Ultimate Reality is God. YHWH refers to The Eternally Existing One. The Ultimate Reality. 

You speak without understanding. You are arguing against purifying the heart not because you know better. 

How is this even defensible? It should be an evident truth that information in the hands of a crooked mind is not going to be perceived as clearly as the same information to a straight mind.

And when I refer to the heart, this goes even beyond the mind but to the very intentions of a person.

If I don't do this the way you want, I concede = you not writing the rules

You are are both delusional and arrogant. I'm going to start calling you Napoleon now, as you obviously think you are some kind of dictator, dictating the rules of engagement.

I made my case, I explained why I believe it. I don't need to do any more. I'm not sorry if that offends you.

Besides, why would I debate with you anyway? You're a fool. You construct an imaginary image of what you think I must be to hold my beliefs and argue against that. Another reflection of your haughtiness.

No, not interested. 

Go ahead and chalk that up as a win so you can feel even more proud.

But no, that isn't a concession. As I still believe what I do and just as you don't accept the validity of my arguments, I don't accept the validity of your arguments. 

As I said, I am not a capitalist. Obviously, Jesus was not a capitalist.

Socialism does not exist independent of capitalism. They are not opposites. Capitalism is a theory of how economics works. Socialism is a consolidation of power and  authority to the state. 

You want to sell all your things andlive in common on a commune? Our monastics do that! But they choose to do it. No one has a choice in socialist country. It is state enforced. And because Marx had a negative opinion of religion that seems to be shared by the adherents of socialism, socialist countries are overwhelmingly atheistic and are responsible for the murders of so many Christians that even the holocaust looks tiny in comparison. But on that note, a Nazi is a national socialist! 

As I said, this is the religion the powers that be are indoctrinating people with.

What do you need evidence of?

If you want to see clearly, take account the tool you are using to measure, make sure it is clean and in good condition.

Purify the heart.

Keep telling yourself that, commie.

I am not a capitalist, but I understand that capitalism is a theory of how economics works while socialism is how billionaires trick people who think they are fighting them into making them even more powerful.

Well, none of that describes Orthodoxy or Orthodox Spirituality though it seems that is what you would like Orthodoxy to be so that you can dismiss it.

Well, couldn't be further from the truth. I understand that if you have Stockholm syndrome to your vices, getting rid of them might not sound like fun, but in the end you'll realize a freedom you never knew existed. That along with clarity, discernment, real joy, and peace of mind.

It takes discipline to rid yourself of fetters. Discipline and the grace of God.

How can you have sincere faith if you are just blindly follow and don't think or ask questions? No, we would consider that foolish. 

In fact, you should ask questions. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. That being the case, it would likely help a priest to better know how to point you in the right direction. They aren't going to force you to do anything. They are just trying to helo. It is what they are trained to do, and it is their vocation.

Socialism is a sneaky way for the elite to consolidate all wealth and power while enslaving the population. It is nothing but deceit. It tends to be very attractive to the lawless and wicked. Very attractive to materialists.

No idealogy in the history of mankind has lead to the death of more people, and in such a short amount of time. In socialist country, all are equally worthless.

Atheism and socialism go hand in hand which is why mass murdering Christians and persecuting the church is usually on the agenda of socialist countries.

Orthodox Spirituality has a great deal more to do with ridding oneselves of vices than believing particular things. The problem with vices is that they make us blind to what would normally be obvious. They have a real profound effect on discernment. Besides that, as the word "vice" implies, they hold us down. We become slaves to our vices, and even come to not see them as vices but part of who we are.

If you build an entire tree of logic off of faulty premises, what you are going to come up with are in fact logical conclusions. They are all, however, wrong, being built off of faulty premises.

Likewise, it is inportant to take into account the tool you are using to measure. Are you going to measure with a smudged up lense?

So Orthodox Spirituality is an alctive thing. It isn't a clever philosophy that seems satisfying to the intellect but wholly useless in other respects.

Neither would I say that my faith is blind, but rather one of sincere conviction.

You are so arrogant you think you write the rules.

No, I don't concede. Keep telling yourself that though. Rejecting reality and replacing it with that which conforms to your arbitrary sense of aesthetics seems to be your thing.

You yourself have faith, as do all. Not everyone likes to admit it, because secular religion has made it into a dirty word, and that is the religion that is being programmed into the population in these days. There was a time when socialism was understood as a religion, but that isn't very palatable to a society that identifies with another religion. So it is snuck in through other means.

That is why today, more than ever there is a great sympathy and embrqcing of socialism in the west. The people who run the UN are socialists. The schools have been teaching socialism since the 60s at least. It is a secular religion.

And if that seems way out there for you, feel free to ignore it.

But you certainly do have faith, you are just programmed to not acknowledge it. 

No, I very intentionally used the word irrational because I knew it would jostle you a bit.

And I mean it!

It might be odd for you to think of me as a logical person, but I am a great deal more rational in my thinking that you can perhaps see at the moment.

From The Confession of Dositheus, which was a synod of the Church called together as a response to the reformation in the west, particularly Calvinism.

I would like to point out that while this doctrine refers to The Church as being "The Catholic Church", this is not refering to Roman Catholicism, which is a heresy, but The Orthodox Church.

The proper name of the church is really The Orthodox Catholic Church. Because of Rome and its influence in the west, refering to the church as The Catholic Church becomes confusing. As should be evident from this topic, many here can not tell the difference.

"We believe the Divine and Sacred Scriptures to be God-taught; and, therefore, we ought to believe the same without doubting; yet not otherwise than as the Catholic Church has interpreted and delivered the same. For every foul heresy accepts the Divine Scriptures, but perversely interprets the same, using metaphors, and homonymies, and sophistries of man’s wisdom, confounding what ought to be distinguished, and trifling with what ought not to be trifled with. For if [we were to accept Scriptures] otherwise, each man holding every day a different sense concerning them, the Catholic Church would not  by the grace of Christ continue to be the Church until this day, holding the same doctrine of faith, and always identically and steadfastly believing. But rather she would be torn into innumerable parties, and subject to heresies. Neither would the Church be holy, the pillar and ground of the truth, {1 Timothy 3:15} without spot or wrinkle; {Ephesians 5:27} but would be the Church of the malignant {Psalm 25:5} as it is obvious the church of the heretics undoubtedly is, and especially that of Calvin, who are not ashamed to learn from the Church, and then to wickedly repudiate her.

Wherefore, the witness also of the Catholic Church is, we believe, not of inferior authority to that of the Divine Scriptures. For one and the same Holy Spirit being the author of both, it is quite the same to be taught by the Scriptures and by the Catholic Church. Moreover, when any man speaks from himself he is liable to err, and to deceive, and be deceived; but the Catholic Church, as never having spoken, or speaking from herself, but from the Spirit of God — who being her teacher, she is ever unfailingly rich — it is impossible for her to in any wise err, or to at all deceive, or be deceived; but like the Divine Scriptures, is infallible, and has perpetual authority."

AsI said before, to quote Jesus..

"Blessed are the pure in heart, they will see God."

And sure enough, the entire Orthodox discipline is about purifying the heart. Something that cannot make sense unless you accept that God is The Truth.

To use a parable, it is kind of like explaining going down a waterslide to a kid. It just doesn't do the experience justice. So i bring the child to the top of the big water slide, and they are too scared to go down. I am trying to coax a child into going down a waterslide so they can experience it for themselves, but they lack the faith to go through with it. I am not going to force the child down the waterslide. They refuse, and never know what it is like to go down the waterslide.

I find your insistence to filter everything through a logical framework to be crippling and not truly rational. I am sure that in your current state of mind, such an assertion must be truly baffling.

I know exactly what I am talking about.

You don't.

I am trying to show you how you can know.

That is not an appeal to mystery, it is an acceptance of the very real truth that giving you the right information is not going to bring you to epignosis. You have to see for yourself.

Of course, you won't get there without faith because this isn't something that can be forced.

The God we believe in is The Truth.

And so you don't really know our God, because you treat it as a created thing. We are not pagans. Pagans worship created things.

And the point of all the exterior manifestations of our religion is to point people to The Truth and to have true love towards it.

The letter kills, but the spirit brings life. You see the letter, but don't see the spirit.

Are you trying to understand or are you simply trying to make a mockery of this whole thing?

We are talking about God, not a fill in the blank.

Nothing about being the breadwinner implies that a father is neglectful of their kids.

Manning up is not conforming to a gender role that has for all of human history been the duty of the female parent. Manning up is insisting taking care of your wife and kids the proper way. Just as womaning up is taking care of your husband and kids the proper way.

And though you are in denial of why there is a proper order of things, that does not in any way undermine the proper order of things. Of course there are going to be deviations, but this does not reflect an ideal position. Lord have mercy on those qho have to do different out of necessity!

Why would a man envy a woman's role? Why would a woman envy a man's role? It is envy. Covetousness. Truly, selfishness. And no trying to turn it around and saying it is me being selfish for believing these things is going to stick. It couldn't be further from the truth. I didn't get married out of selfishness, but love, which is the opposite of selfishness, and everyone who knows my spouse and I know that we are inseparable and harmonious.

Most of the world accepts these gender roles, and it is only in a collapsing western society on the road to totalitarianism that these things are taken seriously. Oh, and when the boots come crashing down and the barbarians come to steal away all the women, it will be really obvious why men are the ones that go out into the world while the women and children are sheltered!

So enjoy these peaceful times while they are here, but if your children are used to reversed gender roles and that is the time when society collapses, they will be slaughtered like the emasculated and confused virtual reality enraptured fools they were raised to be. Maybe momma will fight off the bad guys!

I don't really have anything else to say except that gender roles are not arbitrary, they developed the way they did for a reasom, and what we see today in the west is a development very natural to an over indulgent society in the stage of decadent decline.

I said nothing about being a true believer.

What you are saying amounts to little more than self delusion.

What I am saying has to do with abandoning self delusion.

Very much the opposite.

You are saying something nonsensical.

What I am saying actually means something.

It is a mystery to you because you don't know what purifying the heart is.

I am not misogynistic.

You think that you are more enlightened than all of human history and every society that doesn't see things the way you do. You are being arrogant, and you make pretense of having a so called progressive position which of course, is implying that everyone else is unenlightened. No doubt you hold this view, as you keep refering to the oh so backwards 18th century.

I believe I show more respect to both men and women by attaching no shame to traditional gender roles, gender roles that I imagine must be alien to you as you seemed to have this warped idea that I am being the misogynistic one when it is you who are in effect belittling most women who ever lived.

Please elaborate your accusation for the sake of examination.

No one is calling for the enforcement of anything.

Your argument is nonsense because you are debating an imaginary opponent.

If a woman wants to focus on her career and not be a mother, well, that is her decision. If she wants to be a mother and focus on her career, she is going to have to compromise one for the other.

It is preferable for a mother to dedicate her energies to being a good steward of the home and for the father to be breadwinner. There is nothing about this that implies subjugation of women or the neglect of children by the father.

Why you associate these things is no doubt a product of feminist mind rot that you got schmucked into believing.

Blessed are the pure in heart, they will see God.

Not

Blessed are those who can come up with the cleverest explanation will see God.