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@Stephen
Difference isn't the right word. The Ultimate Reality is reality in the truest sense of what reality means.
I think that is pretty lucid.
So you won't confess The Ultimate Reality exists?
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@janesix
Is a description of The Ultimate Reality the same thing as The Ultimate Reality?
It is exactly what it truly is.
In fact, the concept of "The Ultimate Reality" is an image or icon of that which it represents.
You know the son, you know the father. The spirit of truth activates it.
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@Stephen
So you can't even say that The Ultimate Reality exists.
How telling.
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@Stephen
The Ultimate Reality.
Reality in the truest sense
Reality as it truly is.
You can't confess The Ultimate Reality?
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@janesix
I'm sorry that The Truth offends you so much.
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@3RU7AL
I am an Orthodox Christian. This is how we understand God.
Not deism.
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@janesix
You are the one playing with words.
And since you are being arbitrary, this is what you get..
THE ULTIMATE REALITY IS WHAT I ACKNOWLEDGE AS GOD.
My God exists. Catch up.
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@3RU7AL
For this particular thread, I would like to stay on this topic.
Not everyone has turned in their quiz.
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@janesix
Ok.
So now you can say God exists.
That is the only point I am making.
The Ultimate Reality is what God means.
Whether I or anyone else understands that reality is sommething else entirely.
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Material wealth is not real wealth.
The church doesn't teach that it is necessary to take a vow of poverty.
There are plenty that do, Orthodoxy has had a monastic tradition since the very earliest days of Christianity.
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@janesix
Admit that The Ultimate Reality exists.
That there is a reality as it truly is. Reality in the truest sense.
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@janesix
I know what I am saying. Do you know what I'm saying?
How about this, can you confess The Ultimate Reality?
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@3RU7AL
Ok.
So now you can say God exists.
That is the only point I am making.
The Ultimate Reality is what God means.
Practical implications is something else entirely.
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A vote for con is the vote "There is no truth, reality doesn't exist"
People don't know what "Truth" and "The Ultimate Reality" means, or they don't know that a definition demonstrates what you are talking about.
When I say "God" I literally mean The Truth. I mean The Ultimate Reality.
No, I am not defining things into existence, I am clarifying rlexactly what it is I am talking about. The only atheist argument is to make God something else.
And well, if you need evidence of God, there is something wrong with your thinking. How would you ever even get evidence for God if you didn't believe in God? It is self defeating like depression. The Ultimate Reality obviously exists. And if the entire world voted otherwise, it would not change the facts.
I spent a lot of time putting my argument together. I've had so many votes removed from my debates that the people have beem discouraged from voting. I don't think it's right that votes in my favor get removed while votes that are clearly uninformed and false against me stand. I tied in a debate with RationalMadman because 2 of the voters didn't acknowledge that we used the same sources. Mighty lame.
What is the point of me staying up into the AM to construct these arguments and source them thoroughly when the only thing someone has to do in order to win a debate is adopt an attitude of invincible ignorance while tearing down straw men?
So is there anyone who will actually read this debate and see how many concessions my opponent made, how the entire debate he was back peddling and on the ropes, and was slowly descending into more nonsensical arguments?
Does anyone have understanding at all? The Truth exists even if the entire world disagreed with it. There is no argument against The Truth.
Well, if you know that a definition is intended to make specific what we are talking about, and you have enough sense to know that The Ultimate Reality" must exist, please vote!
If not, what is the point in me trying to make a case that isn't even understood? Well, I won't be deterred, because I know what I'm talking about. Popular opinion doesn't make truth.
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The Church doesn't teach that everyone should be poor.
We all are rich. By our own doing, it is impossible. With God all things are possible.
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@secularmerlin
@Stephen
Neither of you can comfess The Ultimate Reality, which is very telling.
You can't admit That Which Is Ultimately Real exists.
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@3RU7AL
The Ultimate Reality is not "noumenon", that implies it is contingent on mind.
The definition of existence does not imply empirical verifiability at all, this is simply a false statement.
The Ultimate Reality Exists whether you can make sense of it or not.
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@Stephen
Ultimate Reality
Meaning reality in the absolute truest sense.
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@Stephen
What does that have to do with it existing?
What about you? Can you say The Ultimate Reality exists?
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@secularmerlin
You don't believe in Reality as it truly is? Reality in the truest sense of what it is to be real?
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@secularmerlin
I'm not talking about my claims.
Cann you say The Ultimate Reality exists or what?
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@secularmerlin
You can't confess The Ultimate Reality?
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@secularmerlin
The Ultimate Reality Exists.
You can't say this?
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Not at all making an argument from ignorance. I am not using ignorance as a proof of anything.
I certainly can state that ignorance is proof of sin, and I can state this with knowledge.
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@ethang5
Those who want to know what the church teaches can at least see. I believe what the church teaches has a great deal more authority.
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@secularmerlin
Not at all.
For example, I can say that when I say "God", this is what I am refering to.
So you accept that God exists?
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@secularmerlin
The Ultimate Reality Is.
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@secularmerlin
Not at all. It doesn't mean my claims are incorrect either.
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@secularmerlin
I agree.
But The Ultimate Reality Exists.
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@secularmerlin
The Ultimate Reality Exists.
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@Stephen
Solomon was a king, of course he woulld be granted riches.
But even Solomon said, "Buy the truth, and sell it not; alsowisdom, and instruction, and understanding."
These things are better than luxuries, these are true riches.
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@secularmerlin
If you want anything, you'll have to believe me when I say that I need to adjust your language in order to be in line with what is actually being said. As it stands, If I describe anything to you, I might as well be speaking another language. It's a langauge issue, and when I attempt to get you to understand that, you resist any attempt by me to correct you.
So if you do that, how am I supposed to help you understand? You fight me tooth and nail over even the most basic elementary concept... God... Even then, you can't get that right, because you say, "I believe in reality", but you can't bring yourself to say, "I believe in The Ultimate Reality", and you certainly can't admit that God exists, as this is what that means.
I don't even know if you understand anything because you resist me every step of the way when I, out of a desire to have you understand, try ro make these mysteries as lucid as possible.
So forgive me if I think it is a waste of time, because before I can even help you to understand one thing, you cut me off and argue on some tangent that distracts from what we were originally talking about.
So do you hear my gripes? I'd love to help you to understand, but it seems to me that you are very resistant and not genuinely interested in learning.
You think you know already.
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@secularmerlin
You refute things before you understand them.
That is why I'm not interested in taking part in your solipsistic masturbation.
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@secularmerlin
I don't really believe you are interested in learning anything from me.
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@secularmerlin
As long as you remain ignorant, it's easy to argue about things you don't understand with conviction.
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@secularmerlin
You need to be taught, because you are ignorant.
I'm not interested in 23 pages of you playing stupid.
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@Analgesic.Spectre
Your capturing of the human condition is likely alien to anything but the most decadent of cultures.
Don't care.
I'll leave you alone now.
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@secularmerlin
I don't really believe you are interested in learning anything from me.
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@secularmerlin
@Grugore
“In truth there is only one freedom – the holy freedom of Christ, whereby He freed us from sin, from evil, from the devil. It binds us to God. All other freedoms are illusory, false, that is to say, they are all, in fact, slavery.”
St. Justin Popovich
St. Justin Popovich
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@ethang5
If not for him, for someone else.
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@Stephen
Maybe this passage from Paul's letter to Timothy might help flesh it out a little bit more...
"godliness with contentment is great gain.For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."
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Saint John Climacus:
Meekness is an unchangeable state of mind which remains the same in honor and dishonor. Meekness is the rock overlooking the sea of irritability which breaks all the waves that dash against it, remaining itself unmoved. Meekness is the buttress of patience, the mother of love and the foundation of wisdom, for it is said, “The Lord will teach the meek His way” (Ps 24.9). It prepares the forgiveness of sins; it is boldness in prayer, an abode of the Holy Spirit. “But to whom shall I look,” says the Lord, “to him who is meek and quiet and trembles at my word” (Is 66.2). In meek hearts the Lord finds rest, but a turbulent soul is the seat of the devil
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@janesix
Well, if it isn't that, it would be a god, not God.
A great deal of superstition has its root in bad language. And when we are dealing with subject matters that are, as an example, older than the English language, there is such thing as good language, because good language does not break continuity. The new language aligns in meaning with the old language.
The word "God" with a capital "G" must mean The Ultimate Reality in order to not only be aligned with Christian theology, but the equivilent in other theologies who may have more apparent distinction between "God" and "god" in their language.
And fundamentally, this is a theological term, God that is.
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@janesix
Capital "G" God means "The Supreme and Ultimate Reality".
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