Mopac

I believe these attributes are certainly fulfilled by The Ultimate Reality and nothing else.

I think they all logically follow from what those words mean. I already explained how I see this to be the case. 

It doesn't make sense to you, but you also haven't accepted the basic premise, which means we aren't even talking about the same thing. Maybe once you accept what I'm saying, you will be able to make sense of it.

For someone who claims to be one of the greatest translators around, you sure are pretty bad at English. I wouldn't be the least surprised to find that this haughtiness carries into other areas of your thinking.

You aren't really interested in hearing the answers I give you, so why should I answer any more of your questions? You will simply insult me and ignore what I am saying anyway, right?

I answered both of your questions already. If you want to reformulate your questions after processing my answers, we might get somewhere. 

Because I'm honest about epistemological limitations, and can accept that there is reality outside of knowledge.

The gravitas of veritas leads to knowledge, without a doubt.

Predestinated

No no, I apologize, I don't know your motive. I hope truth is your motive, and I will respect you as if it is.

But I am telling you no lie when I say that if God really does mean The Ultimate Reality, which it does, it makes atheism towards this God a very stupid and self defeating position.

If you don't love The Truth, critical thinking naturally leads to arbitrariness. If you love The Truth, your critical thinking in theory would perform the function you say it would.

What is the motivation for thinking critically?

If you love The Truth, this will naturally lead you to think more critically as you inevitably notice discrepancies between the way you think things are supposed to be and the way things actually are.

You cannot quantify The Truth, that is absurd. It simply is.

This is a complex theological question, so understand that getting what I say here might be hard to grasp if you are not well studied in scripture. I will do my best to simplify it and make it as easy to grasp as possible.

First of all, the Jesus that is part of the trinity is The Word of God. When you are talking about Jesus, you are talking about a meatsuit that walked around for 30 something years.

When the Jews asked the prophet and judge Samuel to appoint them a King, God said through him that God was their king who freed them from slavery, tyranny, and having a human king. The people wanted a human king anyway out of rebellion to God. 

The point of Jesus was to fulfill all of the messianic prophecies after this abominable error that the Jews commited through their rebellion to God by returning things to the place where God is their king, not man.

So Christianity is the complete opposite of worshipping a man as God, it is getting rid of that idea of worshipping a man as God and recognizing the king as being God.

Does that make sense?

Psalm 22 is what Jesus is singing on the cross, and if you would actually read it, you'd find eery similarity between that psalm written 500 or so years prior and the situation that meatsuit Jesus was in.

Wouldn't you agree that  the continent of Anarctica existed before it was observed and thought of as existing?

We do not see things the way they truly are, but we know there is a way things truly are. We have ideas about the way things truly are, but we don't really know perfectly the way things truly are. 

Antarctica was there before anybody knew it was. A hypothetical missing southern continent was thought of having to exist to counterbalance all the land on the northern part of the Earth. So antarctica was a postulation even before it was discovered. The reasons for it having to be there may have been silly, but people believed it had to be there for this reason. Eventually, it was found and confirmed to be there.

God is kind of like Antarctica. It was there before anyone ever thought of it. People postulated that it must be there based on their own reasonings. Then it was discovered and observed to exist. I'm telling you that I've seen antarctica and though it may not be on your map, it is there. Though I have not explored it, I have seen the coast. If I were to explore it's entirety, I still could not know everything about it, even as people can't know everything about a much smaller place like the city of Berlin.

But really, you have seen the coast of Antarctica. You can plainly see that truths are realities. This is the coast of Antarctica. You may not know The Truth, but you know it is there because you have seen truth. When you see that there are truths, you are seeing that The Truth is there. It is the coast of Antarctica.

Do you understand the analogy?

The prophets? Isaiah? Jeremiah? Ezekiel?

I suppose you think all that was lifted?

I'm more familiar with what you are claiming than you know, and it isn't as relevent as you think it is. 

Why do you believe that reality is just a bunch of radiation, stars and planets?

You ask how God is reality because you aren't accepting that my God is The Reality.

Instead you think all the baggage you have about God is what I'm saying is reality.

That isn't my claim. My claim is that when I say God, I am literally talking about the highest truth. I wouldn't say that true things are highest truth. I would say that true things have their reality by highest truth.

If you can't make sense of it, it is because you aren't accepting my definitions as valid because it goes against your understanding, which I would say is superstitious.

So unless you actually believe what I'm saying, you aren't going to understand. I am not speaking in mysteries, I am being plain and lucid. It is the cloudiness within you that is obscuring this, and as much as I'd like to cut through that fog, I know that God is the one who cleanses, not me.

I believe that God is The Truth because this is clearly God. If anything is true at all, it could only be so by The Truth. 

But when I say The Truth, you think I'm talking about an invisible sky daddy in the clouds who throws lightning bolts around. Your superstition is getting in the way of really understanding what I'm saying.

The proof is in that you keep asking me how God is The Truth.

That is simply what God Is. That is the identity of God. That is what God means.

That's not what you mean because you know it makes your position stupid.

So what do you do? You debate people who don't really understand theology and shrink away when someone who does tells you that you've been debating superstition of God rather than God.

Critical thinking alone will get you to truth about as well as tying a bunch of bottle rockets together to construct a space shuttle to the moon.

Critical thinking without a love of the truth will simply lead you to reject everything, which actually takes about as much intelligence and thought as believing eveything.

Your argument is utter nonsense. You don't argue that a loony toon based loosely off a movie, book or myth is the same as the story it was based off of.

Which I dispute anyway, because I don't believe for a second you really understand what you are talking about. What did you watch some wingnut video or listen to some wannabe gnostics or something?

What mesopotamian stories and myths did the prophets come from?

You are making this up, or repeating something someone else made up.

In other words, a definition is only good if you can accept it.

And you are absolutely against acknowledging God as anything as real.

I believe that The Truth is God. There is nothing you can do to overturn reality. My belief isn't going to change because you think you are some wizard who defines the language I am using in order to make it nonsensical.

My religion is Truth worship. You clearly don't believe in truth, because like the godless wizard you are, you think it's all arbitrary and that reality is what you can get away with.

Well, clearly you don't want me to tell you what I believe, you want to argue in vain with me. Well, I'm not interested in trying to educate someone who is unteachable because they already have it figured out.

Your argument sucks. Your argument is to point at a cow and call it a duck, and then accuse me of making tautologies.

Get real. 

Will you accept merriam webster as the common ground source when it comes to the defining of terms? We must have some standard.

If no, we have nothing more to discuss. 

I don't believe in a god, I believe in God.

See, your superstitions come from bad english.

But since you don't respect the dictionary, I can't help you. Language is arbitrary, right?

What would you accept as proof?

You after all think that definitions are arbitrary. You probably wouldn't respect scripture or the writings of theologians either.

So what will you accept?

The proof is in believing that I am not lying to you and that I am actually giving you good information...

Like THE TRUTH IS GOD.

Not what you think is true. Not what I think is true. What is actually true. That is what God is.

Since you won't accept this, you will get nothing else. You want me to prove that your superstitious conception of God is true, and that simply won't happen. You have too much baggage. Get rid of it, and accept the definition.

The Supreme and Ultimate Reality means God.

What would you accept as proof? You are demanding a miracle. That's what it looks like. 

In other words, you could be talking about rocks when you are using the word tree.

Gotcha. The merriam webster collegiate dictionary is not authoritative to defining terms.

Well, you are not defining my language so you in your haughtiness can justify yourself holding a stupid and superstitiouus belief you are unwilling to admit you are wrong about. If you want to intellectually masturbate, go ahead and suffer for your delusions. I'll have no more part in your wickedness.

But I will pray you pull your head out from your behind and come to the knowledge of The Truth.

Jesus is The Truth.

The Truth is king.

You clearly don't understand how definitions work.

God literally is The Truth.

I understand this can't be reconciled with your atheism. You would be better off abandoning your superstition position. Aversion is a poison that leads to suffering.

Repent and believe the good news, that The Truth is God, and The Truth is what sets you free.

It is not God unless it is real, because reality is literally the defining characteristic of God.

Reality is not the defining characteristic of leprechauns, unicorns, goblins, etc.

There is no argument against God, which is why atheist arguments are contingent on making God something else. Arguments against gods have been made by monotheists for millennia.

There is no argument against God, and it is foolish and self defeating to even try. You can't argue that is true that there is no such thing as truth without making an obvious and fatal contradiction.

Even you must admit that this One God is real, and there can be no denying of this. It is foolishness to deny this God, and I am certain you are reasonable enough to come to this knowledge.

Fictional beings aren't defined to be THE ULTIMATE REALITY.

The Ultimate Reality is God, and there is no other God.

Every atheistic argument is contingent on making God something other than what God Is.

It's easy to argue against outward manifestations of religion, culture, and created things. There is no argument against The Truth. The way things ACTUALLY are.

And if you are spiritual in a truly healthy sense, I'm certain you would have no problem agreeing with this, even if we understand things differently, as everyone does.

A definition of faith....

"something that is believed especially with strong conviction"

Evidence leads to strong conviction.

No, the faith is in the scientific method as far as being a way of aquiring knowledge.

Or in the case of most people, faith in what people say or write in textbooks is science.

There is no if, this is the meaning of the word.

If you don't accept this, you aren't even talking about the same thing as me.

Yes, that means that atheism is a really stupid position to take.

And you aren't even respecting the definition now, because you keep saying "god" instead of "God". It's a different word. 

Now where is it?

Explain what a tautology is and where you are seeing it.

One definition of religion from merriam webster...

"a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"

So how is a scientist not practicing a religion when they are following the scientific method?

I think that the real issue people have with God is superstition, which is...

I'm pretty sure that Loving The Truth will lead to critical thinking skills, and loving The Truth is my religion.

You are not accepting that The Trurh is my God. You think I am arbitrarily using words.      

Do you believe The Truth? You believe my God exists. If you don't believe my God, you don't believe in truth. There is no debate about this. It's simply a matter of accepting that what I'm saying is actually what I mean instead of making it something else.

See, you think, when I say "The Truth" I'm talking about something false. 

The idea that you can prove that The Truth exists is ridiculous, because if you don't believe in truth, you don't believe in evidence. 

Merriam Webster defines God as...

capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality

Loving The Truth makes people stupid.

I don't think so.

Bowing down to fabrications of the mind, lusts of the flesh, and the vanities of life?

Now that is truly what makes someone stupid. This false religion of idolatry. Where people go so far as to deny that The Truth exists.

There is a cure though. Loving THE TRUTH. 

If you actually care to get answers, I will help you to the best of my ability. As long as you are asking questions about the bible, but refusing to read scripture because you "see what it does to people", I would say that you can suffer in your own willful ignorance.

You are claiming something about the old testament based on texts other than the old testament, making a false argument about that and then applying it to the new testament to make another false argument.

You are wrong on all counts. If you actually knew what was written in the old testament or new testament you wouldn't make such obviously false assertions.

And if I'm confused, you not wanting to clear that up is evidence that you are not trying to be edifying, but that you are trying to stir up trouble.

I have been very consistent that it's about the relationship.

Having a relationship with an encyclopedia full of facts isn't going to make you a more honest, sincere, and competent person. 

Loving The Truth purifies you.

So you miss the point the get go because you think I have to prove that The Truth exists. You have adopted a foolish position. If you believe in trurh, you believe in The Truth. If you deny The Truth, you don't really believe in truths. If you can't see this, I'm not going to convince you of anything, because you have adopted an insane position.

The new testament is written in greek, and you clearly don't know what is written in it. 

Well, it's ok. Maybe he'll get an answer from someone spousing atheistic gnostic garbage he can repeat to someone else.

Because you think when I say Truth I am saying goblin.

It's like you aren't taking my words to mean whaat they are. Ans now you are asking for proof of the truth.

So I got notging more to say about that. You've adopted the funny farm position.

But the other half of this is that loving Truth purifies you, makes you more honest and competent.

Conjecture?

I don't need to prove that The Truth exists, it is self evident. This has nothing to do with math. I'm talking about what makes math true. Without The Truth, their is no math.

I don't think you understand what I'm talking about, because I am not making a  quantative claim. There is no  quantative reality without The Truth.

I am not talking about a hypothesis, I'm talking about The Truth.

Maybe you need to think about what I've said a little bit more, because if you understand me, you'd get that you aren't arguing against something that makes sense to argue against.

If you believe in truth at all, you already believe in The Truth. 

The Truth is the way things actually are. If you are saying that actuality doesn't exist, how can you even believe in truths, which are the way things seem to be? If there is any truth in the way things seem to be, it is because The Truth is in it.

There is nothing reasonable about refusing to accept The Truth.

I am not talking about gods, I am talking about The Ultimate Reality. The Truth. I am talking about God.

I don't need to prove that The Truth is The Truth.

Prove to me that it is true that there is truth!

It doesn't take much to see there is nothing reasonable about what you are asking of me.

Your argument is futile, and denying my God is foolishness. Repent and believe The Truth.

The Truth is my God.

Not

What you think God means is The Truth.

It's not as complicated as you are making it.

You are talking about The Truth as if it isn't what it is. Why don't you claim that a space wizard or spaghetti monster runs everything? You mifht as well be if you don't believe in The Truth.

And if you don't believe in The Truth, you aren't standing on anything. By disputing The Truth, you undermine your own case against it. After all, you can't say, "It is the truth that there is no truth!" 

I don't think you understand how unreasonable it is for you to question the authority of The Ultimate Reality over everything.

In fact.

There is no argument against The Truth. You aren't arguing against me at this point, you are arguing against The Truth. I'm sure you have enough sense to see that this is futile.

Well, lets hope that the US doesn't go along with the UN if it decides to regulate speech on the internet in order to comply with a standard consensus of what is acceptable based on the inputs of countries with less liberal attitudes of what constitutes legal expression.

There is no greater authority than The Ultimate Reality.

It determines everything. There is no power that can over come it. It is sovereign over all things.

Far fetched maybe for a free country, but I don't believe as implausible as you might think. Especially if the alternate internet is illegal.

Not at all. You don't have to know The Truth to know it exists.

I don't have to know The Ultimate Reality to know that is The Lord of all things.

Well, the point is not that you can ever know The Truth. The closest you could get to that would probably be some grand unified theory... The point is that loving The Truth over all things is better for you and everything else.

If you love The Truth, it cleanses you from these delusions quite naturally. It makes you an honest and sincere person. It purifies the heart and cleanses the soul. It's the right way to go about life.

No, I already know I'm wrong. I also know that everyone is in the same boat as me. How do I know that? From loving The Truth. It's really easy to be haughty and have faith in your understanding, especially if you are really smart. However, God has.a way of revealing how the wisdom of man doesn't even stand up to the foolishness of God. The Truth is greater than knowledge.

I don't know are 3 of my favorite words. 

Well, that is the psalm Jesus was singing on the cross, so if you don't want to get educated, why are you bothering to ask?

You shouldn't be asking questions you don't want the answers to.