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I'd like to reiterate my opinion that atheists who do not respect the subject matter of this forum only serve to lower the level of discourse and reduce this forum to garbage.
The question of whether or not God exists is a philosophical question, not a religious one. If your only intent is to challenge the existence of God, the philosophy forum is more suited to your mission.
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@Salixes
Your personal relationship with God IS your personal relationship with reality because God is The Ultimate Reality.
Your experience is your personal relationship with God.
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@Zaradi
Lent doesn't start until the end of the month. I am visiting family right now.
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Denominationalism is strictly a protestant/"evangelical" Christianity phenomena.
What does it really mean?
That the entirety of the church is not present here, it is not truly catholic.
Some say they are "nondenominational", but do any so called "nondenominational " churches have the entire faith? No, they like all the other denominations only contain a piece of the pie.
The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is truly nondenominational, not nondenominational in pretense. That is, the fullness of the faith is there. It is complete. It is universal. It is catholic.
The Orthodox Catholic Church is the complete church.
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"Be persecuted, rather than be a persecutor. Be crucified, rather than be a crucifier. Be treated unjustly, rather than treat anyone unjustly. Be oppressed, rather than zealous. Lay hold of goodness, rather than justice."
— St. Isaac of Ninevah
"Let not one think, my fellow Christian, that only priests and monks need to pray without ceasing and not laymen No, no; every Christian without exception ought to dwell always in prayer."
— St. Gregory Palamas
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The Ultimate Reality is God.
If believing in Truth makes me abnormal, I embrace that without shame.
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Advice to young Christians....
Learn from The Orthodox Church, not heretics, or God forbid fools who deny The Ultimate Reality is God.
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The Church has outlasted every government on Earth, and will be here long after your country collapses due to decadence.
Get on the ark.
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Evolution was first postulated as a theory long before Darwin came up with the idea, and it was first postulated by people who believed in God.
If evolution is true, it in no way negates the fact that God created everything.
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If everyone was wiped off from tthe face of the Earth, and humanity were to be restarted, God would be rediscovered.
The existence of God is a scientific reality. They only people who dispute this are those who are superstitious concerning God.
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The Ultimate Reality is God.
Therefore, anyone who says God doesn't exist is ignorant.
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The
IS
Because God is Reality.
You know, The Is.
Atheism is stupid. It's literally nihilism.
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The subject of whether or not God exists is a philosophical question, not a religious one.
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This is a forum about church and religion.
Atheists who refuse to respect the subject matter have no place here.
Atheists who do respect the subject matter do.
I mean, unless no one cares if this place gets reduced to garbage.
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The Ultimate Reality is God.
God exists.
Anyone who denies this God has adopted a foolish position.
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@Salixes
So you are willfully ignorant because otherwise you won't look cool?
Sounds like nonsense to me.
All I am saying is to keep it real. That's all I ever say. That's why mockers like you in the end will be put to shame.
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@ronjs
Then why so many anti Biblical practises like considering Mary co-redeemer with Christ, which I know you will deny but that is what is done
Jesus Christ's flesh comes from Mary. However, Mary is not God, who is the one who saves.
Mary herself said, "My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour."
Mary herself calls God the savior.
So yes, I do deny your assertion, and with good reason. However, we give her the honor that is due to her as theotokos.
Only if it is taken out of context and rules of grammar are ignored. The gospel message can be understood by anyone without any Church being involved.
What language is the New Testament written in? Greek.
What is the religion of the Greeks?
Orthodox Christianity.
I am not denying that one could come to knowledge of The Truth through studying the bible on their own, but the bible belongs to the church.
Who wrote the bible? Who determined the canon? The Church.
Yes the Catholic Church was very true to Christianity, but has strayed far from it, such as when they supported the Nazis in order to protect their wealth.
The Roman "Catholic" Church hasn't been orthodox for over a thousand years.
They are heretics, which is part of what sparked the reformation to begin with.
There is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The Orthodox Catholic Church is the historical church.
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“The fact that I am a monk and you are a layman is of no importance. The Lord listens equally to the monk and to the man of the world provided both are true believer. He looks for a heart full of true faith into which to send his Spirit. For the heart of a man is capable of containing the Kingdom of God. The Holy Spirit and the Kingdom of God are one.”
— St. Seraphim of Sarov
“The acquisition of of holiness is not the exclusive business of monks, as certain people think. People with families are also called to holiness, as are those in all kinds of professions, who live in the world, since the commandment about perfection and holiness is given not only to monks, but to all people"
— Hieromartyr Onuphry Gagaluk
"You greatly delude yourself and err, if you think that one thing is demanded from the layman and another from the monk; since the difference between them is in that whether one is married or not, while in everything else they have the same responsibilities... Because all must rise to the same height; and what has turned the world upside down is that we think only the monk must live rigorously, while the rest are allowed to live a life of indolence.
Whoever is angry with his brother without cause, regardless of whether he is a layman or a monk, opposes God in the same way. And whoever looks at a woman lustfully, regardless of his status, commits the same sin.
A man is not defined by whether he is a layman or a monk, but by the way he thinks"
— St. John Chrysostom
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@ronjs
We certainly respect scripture as authoritative.
However, sola scriptura leads to 30,000 plus denominations that don't know the God they worship. Scripture detached from the church is removed from its proper context.
The Orthodox Catholic Church is the very church of the apostles, and we have preserved the teachings. This is evident by the enlightened doctrine that the church has consistently maintained for millennia.
The proper conclusion of the reformation is reunion with the Orthodox Church. The Latin church had been broken off from Orthodox Christianity for over 500 years by the time the reformers left them.
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God doesn't threaten anyone with eternal torment. Those who reject The Truth because they prefer the pleasures of wickedness choose the hell for themselves by identifying with what defiles them. When the light of Truth reveals this false identity for what it is, it will be hell to the person who identified with falsehood.
Heaven is abiding in Truth.
Hell is abiding in falsehood.
Hell is the rejection of God, but because God has even filled the grave, those who reject Him are not simply annihilated, they are resurrected on the last day and judged according to their works by the light of Truth. Their shame at embracing filthiness will be their hell.
Those who abide in The Truth are made divine by the grace of God, and will sit as co heirs with Christ at the right hand of God in paradise.
This is no speculation, but a blessed assurance.
"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him."
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God doesn't require anyone to believe in Him.
God loved us so much he gave us the ability to reject Him.
The unbelievers are confused by cultural trappings, they can never see the spirit behind the letter. They are confused because they are lazy.
Foolish unbelievers, are you so daft as to confuse created things with God? Superstitious fools, do you not recognize that The Truth is God?
What fool can look around at all of existence and deny existence itself?
The unbelievers only make pretense of asking God into their hearts. They have no love for Truth, they only care about satisfying the lusts of the mind and flesh. Ever learning, never coming to the knowledge of The Truth.
Their way is cursed, God is not mocked.
Believe that God exists and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Then when you ask, you shall receive. Then when you knock on the door, it will be opened.
It is clear that Those who truly ask God into their heart have work to show for it.
God forbid that anyone who claims to have sought God with all their being and turned up empty be taken as anything other.than a liar or someone suffering delusion.
"God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth."
"The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous."
"Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples."
"whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight."
"The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.
He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them."
"pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin."
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Imagine the mockery someone would receive if they said they wanted knowledge, but refused to follow the scientific method to get knowledge until they could be convinced of the results.
That is what drafterman is doing. He is spiritually lazy, and blames God for it.
It's pride, that's what it is.
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The spiritually lazy always want things handed to them without putting forth any real work.
Faith without works is dead. Functionally no faith at all.
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@drafterman (blocked me for no good reason)
What our conversation served to do was demonstrate the point I made in my original response to you.
You ask God into your heart?
Well, this is how you do it.
There is no magical incantation that will replace a heart truly open to receiving God.
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@drafterman
"God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up."
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@drafterman
"Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein."
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@drafterman
The time for that is over. From now on, parables are what you get.
But posts 9 and 10 are plain speak.
You can say you are inviting God into your life, but if you do not have actions to show that you aren't really being sincere.
What can we say? Believe Jesus. Follow Him.
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@drafterman
Post 9
"If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
Post 10
"without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
Thst is really all there is to it. You don't get what you ask for because you ask amiss.
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@drafterman
There isn't really anything else to discuss at this point. You don't really respect the faith, and I can't help but have the sneaking suspicion that I am only equipping an enemy of the church.
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@drafterman
To say that scripture is "just" a book of myths is very dismissive.
unless your scripture says that Jesus was the entirety of space-time and all of the energy and matter contained therein, then he wasn't a perfect image of reality
"the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."
I said that I, like everyone else, directly experiences reality, not that the perception of reality is the same among everyone
Everyone directly experiences a reality, and everyone's experience is their personal relationship with God.
But the reality that we experience is not ultimately real. It should be apparent that the inadequacy of our senses, the propensity of the mind to hallucinate, the desires and motivations of our heart, and the narrowness of our perspective act as strong evidences that the way we experience reality is not reality as it truly is.
Our discipline has everything to do with casting out delusion and seeing The Truth more clearly.
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@drafterman
And Jesus, being a human being inside reality, can't be a perfect image of it.
If Jesus Christ were simply a human being, the scripture would not say, "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man"
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@drafterman
I experience reality directly, just like everyone else
You appear to be expressing naïve realism.
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@drafterman
Simple answer?
To cleanse oneself of delusion and to walk in The Way of Truth. Unity with The Truth is unity with God. That is salvation. Theosis.
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@drafterman
The Ultimate Reality is Eternal and Uncreated.
The reality you experience is transient, created, and illusory.
Jesus Christ is the most perfect image of God. If you see the most perfect image, you see God. Abiding in The Way purifies the heart so that you can see God.
Knowledge of God is not intellectual, it is experiential.
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@drafterman
So you can say that no energy is created and destroyed, and dismiss the whole thing?
The church doesn't really even speak of created energies, only the uncreated energy. I may have spoke presumptuously because this is one of my weaker subjects.
I can say that it is written,
"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
And I can confirm this truth, that those who do not walk The Way cannot know The Truth, and do not abide in The Life.
I can confirm the truth as is spoken by Christ in The Gospel according to John,
"If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
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@drafterman
Whether or not the universe came to be is certainly debatable. Not something I am interested in debating. I know that it has always existed in a temporal sense. You could say the universe is eternal because time is a quality of the universe, the universe has always existed in time. However, it is not pre-eternal. That is, time is contingent on Ultimate Reality, Ultimate Reality is not contingent on time.
But as I said
"Ultimately, even created energy came out of uncreated energy."
So it isn't important.
We definitely are not pantheists though. We are more accurately described as panentheists.
Whatever The Ultimate Reality is, that is God. The Ultimate Reality is certainly "bigger" for lack of a better word, than the universe.
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@drafterman
If an energy originated at the beginning of the universe rather than before the beginning of the universe, it would be a created energy.
Ultimately, even created energy came out of uncreated energy. To us, God's essence is One with His Energy, so we would say that The Uncreated Energy is God. When we are aligned with this energy, we say we are walking in the grace of God, made divine through cooperation with these divine energies.
I'd like to point out that a lot of this stuff is really mysterious, and head knowledge has very little to do with our faith. Rather, our faith has to do with a specific type of relationship towards God. Everything we do has to do with the relationship.
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Spaghetti
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@drafterman
In other words, particles came into being, because they are created things.
We do not deny that there is a divine uncreated energy, but have taught this for millennia. However, it should still be pointed out that not all energies are uncreated.
Creation is as the flesh of God incarnate. We say God speaks things into existence. Creation is the flesh that is both created by The Word and dwellled in by The Word.
That is the language we use, but as I said before it would be a mistake to take this as implying that God has lungs or a mouth as people do outside of the incarnation. God The Father, as we put it, does not have parts, but rather is incomprehensible and a singularity by nature.
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@drafterman
Information has to go through so many filters before it actually reaches your awareness. It is no strange thing to say that the reality you are experiencing is illusory despite the fact that it derives its existence from that which is ultimately real.
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@ludofl3x
Most of the earliest commentaries on scripture don't even interpret the creation account in Genesis literally.
The bible was never intended to be a scientific manual. These Dr. Dino types, while interesting enough at times to get you scratch your head from time to time, do not represent the historical Church's viewpoint.
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If something comes into being, it is created.
If things come into being by the process of evolution, evolution is a creative process.
If evolution is true, it does not negate God or the fsct that God created everything.
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@drafterman
Not all reality is eternal and uncreated.
It should be evident that temporal things come into being and eventually cease to exist. You yourself have a birthday. One day(hopefully far off) you will have a funeral as well.
You yourself are a creature.
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@Stephen
Have you been a monk before you were married, Mopac?
Not in the sense of living in a monastery with an abbot.
Some of the work I did made me feel like a monk though. Obviously. thst doesn't count.
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@Salixes
I don't believe it is bigoted to believe that perverts exist.
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@drafterman
The Divine Physis did not begin to exist, but has always existed. It is eternal.
What defines the created physis is that created things come into being in time, exist in relation, and at some point cease to be temporally.
The Divine is real in every sense.
Created things are real in some sense.
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