Total posts: 8,050
Posted in:
-->
@Salixes
Those who place their faith in lying vanities forsake their own salvation.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Salixes
The nature of The Uncreated Reality is different than the nature of created reality.
One is self existing, the other is contingent.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
Divine nature is very different from created nature.
Jesus Christ is the hypostasis that unites creation with divinity. The Incarnate Truth. Jesus Christ shows how God is with us, despite the fact that The Uncreated is by physis very different from creation.
Jesus Christ is God with us, The Word of God made flesh, enlived by The Holy Spirit. When God became incarnate, Everything was created. When God in the flesh became death, death itself was conquered as God's presence there unites it to divinity.
It is through Jesus Christ that we witness God, and to know Jesus Christ is to know God.
Jesus Christ is The Way that we walk. Salvation to us is theosis, that is, being made divine through alignment with The Uncreated Divine Energy. We say that God became man so that man can become divine.
A Christian is called to be a living Icon or image of The Truth. To worship God in Spirit and in Truth. In word and in deed. To worship God in Spirit and in Truth is to worship God in Trinity.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
there are atheistic world views that aren't nihilistic.
Rejection of Ultimate Reality is nihilism.
If you do not reject Ultimate Reality but deny God, it is because you have a superstitious conception of God.
It is a useless wrangling over the meanings of words. However, it is not without harm. The only thing it does is serve to obscure the enlightened doctrine. To make muddy what thousands of years worth of church writings testify of.
It is not harmless. What it does is push us further to the margins. What it does is encourage ignorance. It makes it easier to dismiss us without knowledge. It makes it easier to justify persecuting us. Easier to look the other way when we are sent into concentration camps.
If what I say is true, that is, we teach what it is I am saying we teach, making oneself an adversary of God, Christ, The Church is in every way harmful to society. True knowledge and understanding of our dogma on the other hand leads to a society that is both compassionate and sane. It is a mistake to try to hinder what we do, be it either be directly through declared war against us or indirectly through the perpetuating of ignorance concerning us.
Those who abide in The Way are the salt that preserves the Earth, the light that casts away darkness and gives vision.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
Except I believe reality (that isn't God) is uncreated and eternal.
Then you believe God exists, and simply have an aversion to the word "God".
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
My words are not vain, the weight of truth is behind them.
You mock what you don't understand.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
Okay, but what is the difference between "reality" and "Reality"?
The Ultimate Reality is self existing, Uncreated, eternal. It is a specific reality.
When we speak of a reality that is not God, we are talking about reality that exists contingently, is created, and temporal.
All reality that is not God is contingent on God. If something exists independent of Ultimate Reality, it is ultimately unreal. It doesn't even exist.
That is not what nihilism is, no.
"That there is no truth; that there is no absolute state of affairs no 'thing in itself This alone is Nihilism, and of the most extreme kind. " ~Friedrich Nietzsche.
To deny that there is absolute truth is Nihilism in the truest sense.
Nihilism can be best described as the doctrine of negation. In the end, it brings everything to nohing, including itself. It is the prevailing spirit of the modern age, a sort of blind nihilism.
And sure enough, to deny the existence of God is to profess nihilism. It is no strange thing that I am saying.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Yes I do.
The Word takes flesh for our sake. What we are talking about is not a proposition. Propositions are created things.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
The Ultimate Reality is not a proposition, but reality as it truly exists in its totality.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
If you don't believe in absolute truth, but only believe in relative truths, your belief undermines the veracity of relative truths.
That is nihilism.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
It is making specific the reality we are speaking of.
Not "reality", but "Reality".
Not facts, truths, and realities. Reality itself.
The reality that there are 50 states in the USA is not God.
What is ULTIMATELY REAL. That is God.
Created:
Posted in:
A fetus cannot be gay.
Most people who are deceived into thinking they are gay are victims of sexual and psychological abuse.
Because gays have a lot of spending money do to the fact that they don't have to take care of families, the gay lobby is very strong. That is why we have so much culture and politics aimed at painting this behavior in a positive and attractive light. The side effect of this is that more kids are going to indoctrinated at a young age to believe they are homosexuals.
The perverts rub their hands waiting for freah meat to walk through the club doors.
If you ask me, one of the most abominable practices that developed in recent history is advertising aimed at children.
Why hate gay people? They are deceived, they don't know what they are doing is defiling. We live in a society that idolizes pleasure. Sex with anything feels good. If sex with anything feels good, why not do what is easy?
All these people so quick to point the finger at Christians and accuse them of being intolerant towards gays, but who accuses gays of being intolerant towards the opposite sex? I mean, you could easily make that accusation.
The spread of homosexuality has everything to do with the descent of society into idolatry. It is a sign of societal decadence, and if society doesn't reverse course it will eventually lead to the destruction of order and the eventual rise of totalitarianism.
Created:
Posted in:
The Eternal Way of Truth is the answer to life.
Jesus Christ is The Eternal Way of Truth.
To abide in Jesus Christ is to conquer the universe. To conquer death itself. To live eternally.
Created:
Posted in:
Sometimes the right answers are not the ones that people will accept as answers.
The issue isn't in the answer so much as the willingess of the hearer of the answer to have a paradigm shift.
What do I try to do? Address the misunderstanding that lead to the question in the first place. To steer someone's attention away from what is not as important as they think.
Not that easy to do with know-it-alls. Something a debate site naturally attracts.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
I already have a word for reality."Reality."Please explain to me the necessity or utility of coining another word or phrase to describe something which already has an adequate label
I already did in post 71.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
I don't allow for the possibility of God existing because I deny that he is the ultimate truth/ultimate reality.
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."
Excuse me for pointing at the Soviet Union as an example of what happens when people who take our faith as mental illness take power. In effect that is what you are doing by dismissing it outright.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
The Ultimate Reality is what is meant by God.
The Ultimate Reality exists. By definition it is reality in the truest sense of the word. That which is ultimately real.
There is no reasonable doubt about God's existence.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
We say things like, The hand of God, the breathe of God, the word of God, etc.
We are not saying that God has lungs or hands in the sense that people do. Naturally, it is the case when we speak of God, we use imagery to communicate.
Our is not an elitest faith, we are a communal faith. That being the case, we use many different ways and means to communicate these things. We teach children, illiterates, even the slow. Our faith is foundationally a very simple faith. It is simple. Simple, but not easy. Simple enough that even the simplest of men can come to know it. Deep enough to never stop yielding treasure for those more gifted.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
That is not what is essential.
You are confused by parables and poetry.
What is essential is that God is The Truth in the realest sense.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@OntologicalSpider
1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause
I do not see how questioning this axiom is reasonable, because it is the evident truth that everything that begins to exist came into being through causal forces.
2. The universe began to exist.
Merriam-Webster defines the universe as "The whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated"
That being the case, the universe's existence is contingent on consciousness. Contingent on observation and postulation.
3. Therefore the universe has a (transcendent) cause.
The Ultimate Reality is bigger than the universe, so to speak. Within God is contained The Universe, and it is from God that everything that exists derives being.
Why do you agree or disagree with this argument?
I think someone with theological understanding can make good use of arguments like this, but I tend to shy away from logical arguments lest people think that God was discovered through logic rather than revelation. As there is no reasonable doubt concerning the existence of God, I find that proving God is not nearly as important as identifying God.
The Ultimate Reality is God. God is The Truth.
There is no reasonable doubt concerning the existence of God.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
No, I describe God as The Ultimate Reality.
The Ultimate Reality Is What it Is.
That is God.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
The Ultimate Reality is God as I describe it.
There are no additional attributes that make God.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@dustryder
Entertaining thoughts leads to fantasizing. Our choices effect what is attractive. They even determine our attractions.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@dustryder
Homosexuality is defined by Merriam-webster as...
"of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex"
It has everything to do with choice.
Created:
Posted in:
Okay, but we already have a word for reality: "reality."Why do we need to invent a new word for it?
Our doctrine is older than the English language. The words we are using right now to communicate are what are new.
What this does is make specific that we are talkimg about what is eternally reality, and not simply temporal reality.
For example, it is true that Donald Trump is the president of The United States. This is reality. 10 years ago, it was not reality. 10 from now it will not be reality.
The Eternal Reality is always true, never not true. It is not a created reality, it is The Uncreated Reality.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@dustryder
I don't accept the definition as legitimite. Quite the contrary, I find it offensive and reprehensible.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
The Ultimate Reality is God.
That is all there is to it.
It is a complete waste of time to try and kill God. In fact, it is in every way harmful.
Those who kill God are crucifying The Truth itself. Naturally, this is destructive and misguided. In the end though, you can't kill The Truth.
The Ultimate Reality exists. It is not simply an error to state otherwise, it is a patently idiotic position. The Ultimate Reality is God, and disputing this is in every way an attempt at being subversive to our doctrine. Subversive in the manner that is dismisses it, and isn't capable of knowing it.
What does that lead to? Gulags and re-education camps. The classifying of religious belief as mental illness. It leads to my people beimg oppressed, and certainly we have had plenty of that in recent times.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
All the churches I am talking about are Antiochan.
I normally go to an Antiochan church, so I wanted to see the nicest one in Chicago.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@dustryder
I don't accept this defining of homosexuality at all. This is an understanding that is in every way subversive in nature.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
He knew my priest. Instantly recognized that I'm from Texas.
My priest translates a lot of hymns into English for the Antiochan church.
I'm going to miss him, I couldn't have asked for a better priest.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
I'll be going to Saint George in Chicago for the next month.
Antiochan Church in Cicero.
Visiting some family.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ethang5
Is it just me or has Stephen been getting angrier as of late?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Salixes
As I stated, I don't believe that homosexuality is an innate quality of a person anymore than being a guitar player or a basketball player.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
Not elaborations. Explanations of what these descriptions look like.
I maintain that your interpretation of these "attributes" is superstitious.
The Ultimate Reality is God. If God does not have these attributes, it doesn't change the fact that God exists.
Good atheistic arguments can only at best show what God isn't. It isn't possible to disprove God. It is hardly even readonable to be in doubt about God's existence.
Created:
Posted in:
My wife died 6 months ago, so if it was a surprise to anyone, I am a male.
Since I am no longer married, I am free to become a monk. I will not likely return after lent, as I will likely be living in a monastery.
I love all of you, and despite me grumbling from time to time, I enjoyed many of our conversations.
Thank you DART for the good times.
I will be gone by the end of the month, so if there is anything you'd like to talk to me about, this would be the time!
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
Stop being evasive. Are you saying TO BE homosexual is a conscientious life style choice and not a genetic disorder?
I was not ambiguous in any way. It is a choice.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
I already explained this quite thoroughly in post 52. That is how it works.
But really, you confuse yourself with these questions because the essence of God is existence, not attributes.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@dustryder
Temptation does not define a person. Entertaining temptation is what wires your brain to fantasize about things. Just as your mind can be trained into making a fetish out of these attractions, so can the mind be trained to reject these temptations.
It would be silly to say that because someone is attracted to guitar playing that they are a guitarist. It would be silly to say that because someone is tempted to steal regularly that they are a thief. Likewise, someone who is simply tempted by homosexuality is not a homosexual.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Salixes
I do not have an irrational fear of so called "homosexuals", neither do I treat anyone unjustly. Your accusations are unfounded.
Created:
Posted in:
"If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
Created:
Posted in:
Hear ye now what the LORD saith; Arise, contend thou before the mountains, and let the hills hear thy voice.
Hear ye, O mountains, the LORD'S controversy, and ye strong foundations of the earth: for the LORD hath a controversy with his people, and he will plead with Israel.
O my people, what have I done unto thee? and wherein have I wearied thee? testify against me.
For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of servants; and I sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam.
O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.
Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
The LORD'S voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it.
Are there yet the treasures of wickedness in the house of the wicked, and the scant measure that is abominable?
Shall I count them pure with the wicked balances, and with the bag of deceitful weights?
For the rich men thereof are full of violence, and the inhabitants thereof have spoken lies, and their tongue is deceitful in their mouth.
Therefore also will I make thee sick in smiting thee, in making thee desolate because of thy sins.
Thou shalt eat, but not be satisfied; and thy casting down shall be in the midst of thee; and thou shalt take hold, but shalt not deliver; and that which thou deliverest will I give up to the sword.
Thou shalt sow, but thou shalt not reap; thou shalt tread the olives, but thou shalt not anoint thee with oil; and sweet wine, but shalt not drink wine.
For the statutes of Omri are kept, and all the works of the house of Ahab, and ye walk in their counsels; that I should make thee a desolation, and the inhabitants thereof an hissing: therefore ye shall bear the reproach of my people.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
These are poetic ways of describing relationship with God.
Outside the context of that relationship, you can only view these expressions in a manner that is superstitious.
The important thing to recognize is that existence is the defining attribute of God, so if you deny God exists, you are not recognizing that The Word Is what it says it is.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Salixes
You are talking about promiscuity.Kindly explain what on earth that has to do with the subject.
Just because it is no one's business what another does in the privacy of their own home does not mean that these behaviors are harmless and don't have an effect on the people involved.
I don't like to single out homosexuality because all sexual immorality is bad. Simply being heterosexual in one's behavior does not make it moral.
Promiscuity among those who primarily or exclusively engage in heterosexual behavior is very harmful, especially to the psychology of a society. There was a time before prophylactics and modern medicine when it was more obvious how these behaviors effect the medical health of a society as well.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
I agree. Mopac.Is homosexuality a choice or a genetic sickness in your opinion?
It is a choice to engage in homosexual behavior.
It Is also a choice to entertain temptation.
Everyone is tempted, and we can often times be tempted into bad things. We have to choose to not consent to those temptations by entertaining them. When we entertain them, they become fantasies. It is no big step for someone to move from those fantasies into the behavior that is fantasized about.
There is no such thing as an innate homosexual. Are people born thieves? Are people born pianists?
What makes a homosexual? Behavior.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Stephen
Post 48, 2 pre-Nicea contemporaries on opposite sides of the Roman Empire.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
I am telling you what is meant by these things so as to help bridge the gap between what you think these things look like and the types and shadows of a deeper reality that these ways of describing point to.
Because of the paradigm difference, anachronistic interpretation is inevitable. You might have to think a little more poetically than you are used to doing to see what I am trying to point out.
There are certain difficulties that one invariably stumbles upon when we are using the medium of creation to witness to that which is Uncreated.
Whatever The Ultimate Reality is, that is God.
Created:
Posted in:
Reality does not judge. It has no authority. It cannot be pleased. It is not a conscious entity with will.
If something exists, it has no existence apart from The Ultimate Reality. Therefore God has authority.
As God determines what is real and true, God's judgement is what gives existence.
If something exists, it ultimately comes from God. Therefore, whatever happens is God's will.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
It is patently ridiculous to say, "The ultimate reality is ultimately unreal".
If nothing is ultimately real, then our experience would be impossible.
Created: