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@BrotherDThomas
I am under no moral obligations to answer your foolish and unlearned questions which are simply a means for you yo stir up strife.
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@Wylted
This particular quote was allegedly spoken to Muslims after the conquest of Bokhara, so it was not actually directed at Christians.
That said, the Mongols did certainly have interactions with Europe and even The Pope himself, but this is particular quote is not from this interaction.
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"The self-controlled refrain from gluttony; those who have renounced possessions, from greed; the tranquil, from loquacity; the pure, from self-indulgence; the modest, from unchastity; the self-dependent, from avarice; the gentle, from agitation; the humble, from self-esteem; the obedient, from quarrelling; the self-critical, from hypocrisy. Similarly, those who pray are protected from despair; the poor, from having many possessions; confessors of the faith, from its denial; martyrs, from idolatry. Do you see how every virtue that is performed even to the point of death is nothing other than refraining from sin? Now to refrain from sin is a work within our own natural powers, but not something that buys us the kingdom."
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@Yassine
It might also seem strange to you that we are a nation of priests as well. What is commonly referred to as a priest is in fact a presbyter, or elder.
But as far as tracing ordinations, every single Bishop of our church can trace their ordinations back to the apostles. When we say in our creed, "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church", the "Apostolic" part refers to this aspect of the church.
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@Yassine
The Son is The Most Perfect Image of God. The Word of God. The Truth.
The Holy Spirit is The Spirit of Truth.
The Father is revealed in The Son by The Holy Spirit that proceeds from The Father, through The Son, and acting in us through cooperation and submission to His Will.
As Jesus Christ said, "true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."
Worshipping The Father in Spirit and in Truth. This is The Trinity.
So if The Father is known to us by the spirit of Truth in The Most Perfect Image of The Truth, what does that tell us about The Father?
We both know that God is The Ultimate Reality. The Truth.
And so The Trinity explains how God is with us. The Trinity, One in essence and Undivided. Not three Gods. Not God in 3 parts.
This is called a divine mystery for a reason, but it is important and it means something. As I said, it is the difference between worshipping a conception as God and recognizing that as created beings operating in the realm of creation, our relationship with God is through creation.
And it is in the hypostasis of The Son that all of creation is united to God.
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@Yassine
Not always.
I'd be surprised if you found Muslim sources for any, as they probably wouldn't be worth noting. We remember these things because it is part of what the church does.
It is also worth noting that just because someone hasn't been glorified by the church as a saint does not mean that they weren't a saint.
All right believing, true worshiping Christians are saints.
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Deh playin Tchaikovsky at the fireworks in DC on July 4 omfg Russia!
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@Yassine
Acknowledging The Trinity is how we know God and recognize God rather than mistaking a conception of God as God.
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@Yassine
Yet Jesus Christ promises that the gates of hell will not overthrow the church, so there can not be a time when the church ceased to exist. The chain is not broken.
I understand you must believe this in order to justify Mohammed, but we certainly see him as a false prophet and forerunner of the antichrist.
That might not sound nice to you, but it is what we believe. Several of the things that he taught about Jesus were condemned as heresies centuries before he lived. The writings of the apostles themselves testify against him.
In fact, if you make Jesus a mere man or prophet, you disrupt the very prophecies that He came to fulfill.
You don't understand what the trinity is. We certainly believe in one God. In fact, tritheism we recognize as a heresy. As is calling Mary a part of the trinity as your Koran claims we believe.
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@Yassine
I just want to make it very clear that The Orthodox Church does not act as a worldly government, neither does it wish to. It is not really right to judge the church or Christianity based on the actions of a worldly state.
I would also like to point out that The Roman Catholic Church, which has not been Orthodox for over a thousand years, does not represent us or our ways. In fact, they attacked us during the crusades as well!
Protestantism is a reaction against Roman Catholicism, but they ditched the church along with Rome.
I would also like to point out that even Orthodox Countries have oppressed the church. The Roman Emperor meddled with the church quite abit, often times erring on the side of heretics. The Russian Tzars were not much different.
The point being, the actions of these states must be understood to be distinct from that of the Church, because The Church is not a secular authority. It doesn't really matter how godly these governments claim their intentions.
What we Orthodox Christians are called to do is pray for the governing authorities, even if they are oppressing us. Maybe even especially if they are oppressing us. Indeed, we do this during every liturgy.
Our religion is very much not to be trouble. The only time we are trouble to governments is when they attempt to coerce us into worshipping idols or abandoning Christ. In that case even, the example we were given is to die peacefully as witnesses. Not that we seek death, but sometimes circumstances make it an unavoidable situation.
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@Outplayz
The fact that you think you are the one in charge of your demons and not visa-versa is proof that you are very deceived and are on the wrong path. Yassine is right. When reality hits, delusion dissipates. Just as light expels darkness.
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@Yassine
Church canons are not secular laws.
Jesus Christ appointed apostles. The apostles appointed bishops. We know what Jesus taught. We know who Jesus is.
We do not believe in three gods, we believe in One God.
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Kidnapping children, forcing them to convert to Islam, and having them fight in war is like comscription in The United States. WOW.
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@Yassine
You are kind of on the side of the oppressors, so I don't expect to convince you that we are a great deal more offended at these things, and justifiably so than you can understand.
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@TheRealNihilist
I'm kind of an expert in language, but whatever. Not like you'd believe me on that anyway.
The understanding I am presenting.to you is not archaic.
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@Yassine
I picked that one because he was a Turk, but here is another one
Saint Abu of Tbilisi
Another good one though who was also a Turk
Saint Constantine Hagarit
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@TheRealNihilist
The bible is thousands of years old. We have had thousands of years worth of writings since the bible.
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@TheRealNihilist
Secular means worldly, ok?
A secularist only sees the material world as all that there is. They denial spiritual matters so they are secularists.
A secular government doesn't deal in matters of religion, it deals with worldly things.
A theocracy or more accurately called a clericocracy, and that is a religious institution with secular authority.
Theocracy literally means God ruled.
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@TheRealNihilist
Well, that is not how the word is used in our writings, so I will chalk this up as another example of newspeak that is being used to pervert the minds of youth away from the truth.
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@Yassine
I'm amazed you believe that the Turks simply left Christians be to practice their religion in peace without interference. That is certainly not in line with.the experience of the church.
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@BrotherDThomas
Jesus loves you, Thomas.
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@BrotherDThomas
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."
"But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
"And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things.
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high."
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
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@BrotherDThomas
"God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble."
As it is written in Saint Paul's first letter to the church of Corinth...
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
As it is written by the hand of Saint Paul to Saint Timothy, Orthodox Bishop of Ephesus...
"...teach no other doctrine,
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm."
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@BrotherDThomas
I do not feel the slightest bit threatened by you. Your folly is manifest to all.
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@BrotherDThomas
You are not in communion with the church, you do not have the seal of The Holy Spirit. Every Christian heresy makes use of scripture.
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And of course, worse than any persecution of the church in history was that which was done by the Soviet Union, professing "Scientific Atheism" as its state religion.
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@Yassine
Note the genocides of The Turks. There are Armenian diasporics that are welcomed at our church. Most people hear of the Armenians, but they are not familiar with the Assyrians and Greeks who were also targets of this genocide against Christians.
Millions killed.
Not hating on you or the Turks, simply pointing out relatively recent history of how Christianity has not been allowed to flourish in Muslim countries as you claim, even in your own country.
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(Editors Notes: We cannot even well imagine but "50 Million Victims Of The Orthodox Christian Holocaust" is not the correct number, as we have learned from Alexander Solzhenitsyn that more then 66.5 million Orthodox Christians also perished from 1917 and onward during the times of the Soviet Union. Secondly the New Martyrs of Serbia are increasing, the killing of innocent people, the destruction of Churches, Monasteries, Cemeteries, and homes, as well as a massive killings of Serbian Orthodox Christians, and countless missing people.)
(OP Notes: this article doesn't take into account the killings since 1999)
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@keithprosser
Pass on the instruction meaning you have no intention of receiving instruction.
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@zedvictor4
Create problems. Solve problems in a way that creates more problems to be solved. Endless cycle.
The issue is definitely a spiritual one, and that is the point. The solution to these problems are rooted in spiritual issues.
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@keithprosser
The Orthodox Catholic Church is the Christian Church. That being the case, instruction should be received from the holy orders of the church.
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@TheRealNihilist
I am using the correct historical usage of the world secular, which even in the case of so called "theocracies" refers to the aspect of them that makes laws, levies armies, and all the things a worldly or secular government does.
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@Castin
Please don't insult my faith by calling this walking sack of Poe's Law a Christian.
Please don't make this an arbitrary bout of self righteousness either.
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@zedvictor4
There is nothing moderate about what Christ taught. We who follow Him are by nature radicals.
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If all there is to life is amusement, this is a vain life.
The only thing that matters is Christ.
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@zedvictor4
Unfortunately. Charity must even be showed to these, for they know not what they do.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I don't feel like an ass for giving real advice.
You think I am an ass because you hate my religion. You hate it without understanding it.
But Christ suffered even for your sake, though you revile Him. He suffered because of His great love for you and for all mankind.
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@zedvictor4
Intolerance and Christianity are not compatible.
In fact, we are taught a step above simply tolerating others. We are taught charity. That is, loving those who are tolerated, not simply putting up with them.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
There by definition can only be One Ultimate Reality, Debs. You cannot have 2 ultimates. Only at taco bell can you have 2 supremes. There is One Supreme Being.
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@Yassine
You really underestimate our faith. Christianity does not need the protection of a state to live. If this was the case, The Roman Empire would have stamped out Christianity before becoming Christian 300 years after pentecost.
Islam thrives in an environment that silences anything that disagrees with it. If The Church were truly given liberty, and Muslims were not threatened with death for converting, Orthodox Christianity would truly flourish in the middle east.
It is our duty as Christians to preach the gospel. To prevent us from freely preaching the gospel is to oppose God. It matters not if Muslims are not allowed to try to convert us. Indeed, if they tried, and found themselves being the ones converted, they put themselves in danger! And surely, The Church is no stranger to this. We recognize many Muslims who became Orthodox as saints, after being discovered, refusing to renounce their faith under threats of death that were not empty.
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@Yassine
"Canon law" is a very Roman Catholic way of refering to the canons of the church. The Orthodox Church is not a legalistic entity.
I must again point out that the church was pushed into a position of governance under the Turks, and this arrangement in itself is not canonical. That is why today the church doesn't operate in this manner.
Of course we know why you don't agree with The Church on what Jesus taught or even about who Jesus is. It is because you believe the false prophet over The One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
But the fulfillment of your religion is in Jesus Christ, and it is impossible for you to understand this with a Muslim understanding of Jesus. You must have an Orthodox understanding of Jesus.
For it was said by Christ himself "this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
You know sure as I do that The Ultimate Reality is God, and there is no other. You don't know Jesus Christ. For knowing Jesus in the way you know Jesus is not eternal life.
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@disgusted
Who never existed?
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@Yassine
Mohammed and his successors were heads of a secular government. Secular means worldly. Clearly, the caliphate was a Kingdom of this world.
And there is nothing about Muslim rule that has been conducive to flourishing for us. Preventing us from building churches and monasteries, confiscating churches, preventing us from preaching publically, killing Muslim converts to Christianity... tip of the iceburg stuff.
But as The Lord Jesus Christ said to those who crucified Him, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do."
And I hold no animosity towards Muslims. I do not believe that Mohammad was a prophet though, as his teachings concerning Jesus Christ are contrary to what the church has always believed since the beginning.
And there is nothing about Muslim rule that has been conducive to flourishing for us. Preventing us from building churches and monasteries, confiscating churches, preventing us from preaching publically, killing Muslim converts to Christianity... tip of the iceburg stuff.
But as The Lord Jesus Christ said to those who crucified Him, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do."
And I hold no animosity towards Muslims. I do not believe that Mohammad was a prophet though, as his teachings concerning Jesus Christ are contrary to what the church has always believed since the beginning.
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@Yassine
The Orthodox Catholic Church is the second largest congregation of Christians on the planet.
Despite being subjected to Muslim dhimmitude in the middle east and Africa for a good chunk of its history.
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@Yassine
I am the only Orthodox Christian here. You should not take the deviations of heretics as being representative of Christianity.
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@Yassine
Heterodox means other than orthodox. Orthodox means "Right believing" or "true worshiping".
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@Yassine
The Church does not make secular laws. Historically, emperors and such felt that they should enforce religion on the population. This is not denial of history, I am simply not making the identity fallacy that you are likely unintentionally making.
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