Mopac

If you believe I am ignorant about something, don't think that puffing yourself and acting condescending will impress me that you know better. 

I know it is hard for you to understand, because the state and church are so intertwined in Islam, but this is not how the Christian Church is. You mock us because governments can and have bullied the church around, but because of how our church is structured it always reverts back to normal. The Turks could not genocide our church out of existence, neither could they, despite their meddling in church affairs, corrupt our faith. The Soviet Union could not genocide our church out of existence, neither could they, despite their meddling in church affairs, corrupt our faith. We are not like The Roman Catholics, who can have their whole church corrupted by one bishop, as they have when they altered the creed of the church. We are not like the protestants, who lacking real holy orders and unity find themselves being corrupted into abominable heresies at the whim of their surrounding culture.

Our is The Church of Jesus Christ and the apostles, the very Church that Christ promised the gates of hell will not overcome. When you say that the church felll away or died and needed to be replaced by Islam, you are calling Jesus Christ a liar.

But Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the law and all the prophets. At the end of Islam is Jesus Christ. 

It is how people move a thread to the top without adding anything to the discussion.

Bump it to the top from page 3.

.

Tritheism is a heresy.

Zeus is a created god.

It's a good thing knowing the answer to this is not necessary for salvation.

It is isn't thst I don't take scripture seriously. I don't take you seriously. 

So what church do you go to? Do you answer to an elder? Or is it just you, the bible, and your prelest?

This scenario seems to describe the lives of people living today who are a reality check away from being homeless.

Maybe you should talk to the OP about it, because this topic is an AMA.

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened"

I will not do you and others a disservice by compromising to your folly. If you believe there is Ultimate Reality, you believe God exists. You are not an atheist, you are simply prideful.

The heterodox wouldn't see that way, because they deny the church or prescribe to an understanding of the church that is different than what the ancient church believed. 

I am baptized and Chrismated in The Orthodox Catholic Church. So yes, you could say Eastern Christian, though I live in The United States. I go to an Antiochan church that was planted by Lebanese immigrants.

Secular is another way of saying worldly. 

You confuse The Roman Empire with The Church. We do not kill apostates.

Muslims do kill apostates though, and this goes back even to Mohammed and his successors.

The church has not changed morally, we have always taught the same thing. The Turks imposed on the church to act in a judicial manner through the millet system, but the church is not intended to be a worldly power. Because of how the Orthodox Church is organized, it is able to revert back to normal after government imposition ceases. There has never been a period in history where government didn't meddle with the church, but the church survives.

Guidance yes, dictate, no. The church is not a worldly authority. Islam is as much a worldly secular authority as it is a religion. We Orthodox are not like this. The church is distinct from secular worldly government. 

Of course. God granted authority to the Roman Empire. God granted authority to the Tzars of Russia, the bolsheviks. The Caliphate. Who can give authority but God? Even Satan has no power but that which was granted by God.

Your examples of "Christians" killing apostates is somewhat silly because none of the examples are Orthodox Christians, and even if they were, the Church's official position is that we do not kill apostates or execute any type of juridical authority whatsoever. In fact, the merging of church and state even has its own heretical name in Caesaropapism. 

I find it difficult to believe that in Islam it isn't the norm for apostasy from Islam to be punishable by death, since this has been the norm since the beginning.

Sounds like the logical conclusion of a maximize pleasure moral system.

Life is suffering, therefore life is immoral.

It sounds like in some way, you have still found it to be true that we inherit the mess.

Unfortunately, the consequences of other people's sin does effect the world. If a few greedy industrialists pump an immeasurable amount of smoke in the air, this is going to effect those around who have to breathe that air. When governments declare war, innocents suffer!

We in the Orthosox Church see this as the consequence of Adam's transgression, that we inherit this big mess. Not the guilt as taught by the Latin Church and some protestants, but the mess. This is the environment we live in.

But you do not deny the existence of God, you admit that The Ultimate Reality exists. That is a confession that God exists.

Creation is inherently dualistic, that is a defining characteristic of creation, I can agree with that.

Evil takes form in creation, because deceptions and illusions exist as deceptions and illusions. They exist, though it is the part that doesn't exist that defines them. The perception of evil is what is real.

I can agree that God created the potential for evil by giving us the freedom to choose.

I am pretty sure it would be illegal to fire you for your health issues, but maybe it would be good to look for other work.

If you don't mind me asking, what are these health issues?

A doctor's note wouldn't hurt. You might not need to get a full appointment to get one either. Just call his office up and explain that you need one. You could probably just drive there and pick it up.

Well, it doesn't look like what you figured out is working.

So that is my advice. I hope that one day, when you realize that maybe you don't have it all figured out, you remember what I told you and consider that maybe you didn't really have that all figured out like you thought either.

Don't give up, you are still young. Go to an Orthodox Church. Talk to the priest. Ask him for books. Tell him how you struggle with belief, and then be honest about why. Don't give up. 

The answer you are really looking for is there. The church is a hospital.

You never knew Christ, and your spiritual discipline was done in ignorance rendering it vain.

Our reasonings are a lot like our own children. A child may be beautiful, well behaved, and just a darling if you ask momma, though the child is an ugly wicked little trouble maker to everyone else.

Just because something doesn't make sense to you does not mean that you understood it to make sense of it to begin with.

You are not going to find God through external reasonings. Only through spiritual discipline.

It might help to get a doctors note.

If your doctor isn't doing anything but chucking pills at you, it might be a good idea to get a new doctor.

Really, God helps. Find God.

You are not in communion with The Church.

Therefore, you are not a true Christian.

Just as a spoiled child sees evil in being confined to their room for behaving wrongly, so does the righteous judgement of God appear evil to those who are unrepentant and on the receiving end of it.

1. Avarice. That’s according to Saint Paul. It’s idolatry, because, in the end, let’s be honest with ourselves, we’ve turned to idolatry wholeheartedly and enthusiastically. Avarice is typical of our age. It’s a rejection of the worship of the true God. People who are avaricious are indifferent to the legitimacy of the methods they employ. Lack of faith takes on new and increasingly uncontrolled forms. The virus of greed in today’s world has mutated and been transmitted to all strata of society. Let us not fool ourselves that it’s only the rich who belong to this category. It’s all classes. It’s just that the have-nots live in the hope of acquiring things themselves. What we call the consumer society has ended up as consumer hysteria. The ideal and aim of people today in all social classes is to accumulate material goods, unthinkingly, even though these are often superfluous. This greed, which is at the root of today’s ecological crisis, was denounced 16 centuries ago by a great theologian, the Father and Teacher of our Church, Saint Gregory of Nyssa. He stressed that we should use, but not misuse. We should allow ourselves to enjoy, but within reason. We should not become the ruination of all the creatures which live on land and in the sea.
2. The elimination of the sense of justice. In theory, we’re all against injustice; it’s a pastime that we all, to some extent enjoy. But in our everyday lives, if we think that something’s in our interest, we find a variety of pretexts to go along with it. During Great Lent, the insistent voice of the Prophet Isaiah urges us to ‘Remove the iniquities from your souls… learn to do good, seek judgement (i.e. justice), deliver those who are being wronged, plead for the orphan and seek justice for the widow… and come, let us reason together, says the Lord’. Holy Scripture is full of clear commands for us to be just in every facet of our lives, especially in our dealings. But it’s not only about employers who might not treat their employees fairly. When the injustice is perpetrated by certain employees, this is often overlooked. In the public sector, for example, when they work fewer hours than those agreed, but still think it their right to be paid a full wage. You might think these are mere details. But such minor injustices undermine the general sense of fairness, responsibility and dignity within a society.
3. Another root of corruption is distortion of the truth. A lie in all its forms. ‘Woe to you who call evil good and good evil’. The Prophet raises his voice also against those ‘who present darkness as light and light as darkness’, who ‘present the sweet as bitter and the bitter as sweet’. ‘Woe to those who consider themselves wise and knowledgeable in their own opinion.’ At another point in the Old Testament it is stated most expressively: ‘Those whose support is lies are shepherding the winds’ (Prov. 9, 12). The first book of Holy Scripture tells us that our Fall was the result of a lie, while the last informs us that ‘all those who love and practice lies’ will remain outside the Kingdom of Heaven. Lies, in general, undermine our ability to love. This may seem a little strange, but I’m referring to a thought of Dostoevsky, who puts into the mouth of Starets Zosima the following words: the main thing is not to lie to yourself. People who lie to themselves and believe in their own lies reach the point where they can see no truth, either in themselves or in others. So they lose respect for others and for themselves. If you don’t value others, you cease to love. I believe that this relationship between lying and the truth is most revealing. Starets Zosima concludes that people who lie to themselves are the first to be offended, because at times it’s very pleasant to feel you’re being affronted, isn’t it?
4. But the most egregious danger is ego-centrism, captivity to ourselves, worship of our personal interest, or that of our family, our place or, if you like, our nation. The antidote to this remains justice, together with support and self-sacrifice. The secret to discovering your true self is to offer it to others. Emphasizing and experiencing this value remain the Church’s greatest contribution. Drawing on the best pages of its history, the Church adds to the classic ‘cogito ergo sum’ – ‘I think therefore I am’- ‘I love therefore I am’. In accordance with the model of existence of the Holy Trinity, that of love and reciprocity.

You cannot mask your sophistry with your many words and vitriolic rhetoric. You are out of line with what the church teaches.

Therefore, you are in heresy. It would be better for you to repent.

Disgusted is a very primitive human, he's trying to claim credit for his peeps.

If I was a Muslim who did not want to be a Muslim but I knew I couldn't tell anybody I know that I do not want to be a Muslim....

...I would go to The United States or something!

We Jews, Muslims, Christians, and certainly other monotheists recognize that The Ultimate Reality is God.

While you are uncertain of God's existence or don't believe it can be known, I certainly do know with certainty. I am more certain of God's existence than even my own knowledge! You who cannot make sense of these things project your own haughtiness on to those who truly know, because you do not believe that it can truly be known that God exists.

You can't prove anything to a nihilist.

Your arbitrary standard of judgement is indicative of spiritual delusion.

Western Christianity descends from Roman Catholicism which broke away from The Orthodox Catholic Church over a thousand years ago. 

We hope for them to return to the church. We can't compromise the faith though, so reconciliation is really the heterodox churches becoming Orthodox.

I go to an Antiochan diocese, so our Church is currently based in Damascus.

I agree with Yassine, you are clearly in prelest.

The Orthodox Catholic Church recognizes free will as being part of what it means to be made in God's image. That being the case, we do not punish apostates, but pray for them. We do not believe in persecuting heretics or waging holy wars. The Church is not intended to be a secular or worldly power, as Christ said "My Kingdom is not of this world."

We do believe that all secular or worldly authorities have been given that authority by God, whether they are good or evil. 

The church's experience is that those who convert from Islam face very real threat of being killed in the Muslim world. Both past and present.

We are really off topic here, I think it would be better.to make a new topic if you would.

The ecumenical councils did not innovate the faith, but clarify and reaffirm what was passed down by those ordained by the apostles and their successors.

The Roman Empire is not the church, and even after the empire became Christian, persecution of Orthodox Christians did not end. Many Emperors were not Orthodox Christians. 

The history is a lot more complicated than you know, but we certainly believe that The Holy Spirit guides the church, and tbat as Jesus promised, hell will not overcome it. The Church is the oldest continuous institution on the planet, which is amqzing considering throughiut most of its history it has been persecuted, oppressed, and slaughtered.

This is way off topic, it might be better to make a new topic.

That is not in line with the experience of the church. Past and present.

The Holy Spirit is The Spirit of Truth.

The Word of God is The Truth.

It isn't a language I am that good with. The church I go to has a lot of people who speak fluent Arabic, and at least one fellow from Iraq who hardly speaks anything but!

In English, Allah and illah are spelled and pronounced the same, which is unfortunate.

Islam(and by this, I don't mean submission to God, because truly that is our Orthodox faith, submission to God.) Does not know Jesus Christ. The Jesus Christ that is taught in Islam is not the same Jesus Christ that is known by The Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church.

An acceptable reason for killing a Muslim apostate is if they convert to Christianity, isn't it?

We Orthodox Christians have a prayer that we say to begin our other prayers that explains it well I think.

Nuke Africa?

Why?

How pretentious.

Gnosticism is "knowingism".

What you posted in the OP is the kind of stuff the so called gnostics use to convince people.

Neognosticism is actually a very prevalent heresy today. It's probably what a youtube education will end up dragging you in to.

Gnostics are also not very consistent with eachother. They tend to believe in different things, as we all know differently.

So what you called an ad-hom in my original response was maybe not as much of one as you think.

Unless you are making something false a matter of identity.

What is it that I am being told that you say I should listen to, eh?

How vain.