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@Outplayz
I'm sorry to hear you feel that way, outplayz.
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"The Lord greatly loves the repenting sinner and mercifully presses him to His bosom: "Where were you, My child? I was waiting a long time for you." The Lord calles all to Himself with the voice of the Gospel, and his voice is heard in all the world: "Come to me, my sheep. I created you, and I love you. My love for you brought Me to earth, and I suffered all things for the sake of your salvation, and I want you all to know my love, and to say, like the apostles on Tabor: Lord, it is good for us to be with You."" ~ Silouan the Athonite
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@Outplayz
Repentance is not simply changing your belief, but what motivates you and influence you. It is intrinsically tied to action. You shouldn't want to do what you repent from anymore, as your desire for whatever you repented from is replaced with a different desire. For example, going from a desire to feed the passions to stilling the passions. Why would anyone want to do this? Love of God.
It is not easy to say, get over a drug addiction if life to you is the fulfilling of the lusts of mind and flesh.
Discernment is a gift of The Holy Spirit. I can see very clearly that you are in prelest. The good news is that this is not an incurable condition.
But as I said, God does not force a cure on those who do not wish to be cured. If you want to be healed, there is a faithfulness required on your part. The good doctor can give you a prescription, but it is up to you to follow through.
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@Outplayz
For repentence to be real, you do not simply say "I'm sorry, I goofed", you must replace the bad behavior with good behavior.
The Greek word for repentance is "metanoia", which is a changing of the mind. A change of course.
See if you rely on your own self, you will actually find that you will rationalize evil. If you rely on The Truth, and love The Truth, it is that love of The Truth that allows The Holy Spirit, that Spirit of Truth to cleanse you. You do not do it on your own.
So the work on your end is to cooperate. We Orthodox understand this as the doctrine of synergism
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@Outplayz
"Through repentance the filth of our foul actions is washed away. After this, we participate in the Holy Spirit, not automatically, but according to the faith, humility and inner disposition of the repentance in which our soul is engaged. For this reason it is good to repent each day as the act of repentance is unending." ~ Symeon the New Theologian
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@Outplayz
You really have it backwards. They have even fooled you into thinking that you are getting a good deal despite the fact they are living in you rent free(while smoking and keeping pets).
Demons are never on your side, and they are certainly not your bitches if they are possessing you.
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@Outplayz
Outplayz, I am not simply being mean. You are obviously very conceited and in prelest. It is your conceit that makes you incapable of seeing things as they are.
I am not saying this to be mean, I am saying this because it is the truth. I am saying this out of love, not hate. I want the best for you. What you consider to be true is evidently arbitrary, you reveal this nearly every time you elaborate on your beliefs. From an abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.
There is no human being who can heal you, Outplayz, it is only God that can heal you. You have been given freewill as a gift from God, and for God to heal you it is necessary that you cooperate. If you do not cooperate with God, He will not force Himself on you. This evil that has possessed you, this demon, can be exercised. It can be removed. It can not be done without your consent and cooperation with God.
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@Outplayz
Telling people the truth even if it isn't what they want to hear or believe is not an attempt to flex control or power. We do not tell people they are wrong for being who they are, we tell them that the wrong they think they are is not really who they are. So rather than putting down people, we tell them instead lthat they are better than what they believe!
So you have it all wrong. Of course I accept you. Loving you doesn't mean validating your spiritual delusion. Loving you is TELLING YOU THE TRUTH.
There is nothing intolerant about my faith. You see what I believe as intolerant because it contradicts way you believe. It couldn't be further from the truth.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Perhaps this is because you think you are beyond receiving direction?
If being deceived sends you to hell, is there really hope for anyone?
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@Outplayz
Our religion is not a secular government. We do not force people to do anything.
I find it strange that you are trying to flip this around like some type of lawyer when you literally said "the take-down of organized religion is a must."
You are calling for the death of my church, there is no way around this. We do not see your ideal of spiritual egotism and self directed religious anarchy to be desirable.
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@Outplayz
We Orthodox Christians have holy orders.
We have bishops.
We have priests.
We have deacons.
We have monasteries headed by abbots.
We are very organized.
And it is obvious that you hate us just as you also hate the truth.
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@Outplayz
For you to say that the take down of organized religion as a must is an open declaration of war against my church and a blatant contradiction on your part, because you cannot claim to believe in sharing space and respecting me or my beliefs while simultaneously preaching the necessity of annihilating the body of Christ.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
All atheist arguments are contingent on making God into a god. That is, NOT The Ultimate Reality.
It is really a giant straw man.
So that being the case, doing anything other than addressing this strawman the God denier makes serves only to confuse the issue.
How can I even speak of Jesus when God isn't even accepted? The question of God's existence is not a religious issue, but a philosophical one. If you say there is no God, you are automatically a nihilist.
The truth is, most atheists don't know what God means. They are somewhat excused because they are ignorant.
If you know what God means and you still deny God.. there are no polite words that can be used to express the unfathomable depths of your stupidity..
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@Harikrish
Your first claim is historically inaccurate, and your second claim is simply untrue.
Perhaps you should stick to your own religion, because it seems very apparent to me that for a self proclaimed scholar and expert, you have a very superficial grasp of Christianity. It would be better for you to be taught as a student rather than presume to be a teacher.
I think we would have a more interesting discussion if you talked about your religion rather than mine. I could certainly fill you in on what ways we may find common ground or differ.
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@Harikrish
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and apon those in the tombs bestowing life.
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@Harikrish
You keep bringing up the pope of Rome despite me repeatedly telling you that the pope of Rome is technically a heretic to us Orthodox Christians.
When it comes down to it, we do not respect him as a bishop as his church is in schism.
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@disgusted
You are dodging the question.
I did not ask you about "my Canaanite god", I asked you if you can say, "There is ultimate reality."
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@disgusted
If you say The Ultimate Reality doesn't exist, you are a nihilist.
If you are going to argue that roses didn't exist until they were named roses, I would say you making a ridiculous argument.
And truly, you are making a ridiculous argument.
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@disgusted
You are a nihilist, the very idea of a claim being supported is an absurdity to you.
There is nothing reasonable about what you are doing. If you ever make an appeal to reason, it is only for the sake of destruction. It is done out of convenience.
The Ultimate Reality exists.
Can you say there is no ultimate reality?
Even you know how foolish it will make you look if you say this.
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@croweupc
You claim to know my faith, but I know you don't.
You have prejudice about why I bekieve what I do, but I know it is untrue.
I am not trying to force my beliefs on you at all, quite the contrary, my faith can not be come to by coercive means. I simply want to educate you.
Protestantism is a heresy, that means that your understanding of Christianity comes from heretics. You say your dad is conservative, but conservative protestantism is not the ancient faith. How many protestant churches are older than a few hundred years old? The Orthodox Church is the very apostolic church. Can't get more conservative than Orthodox.
And it is against our religion to persecute others for their faith, and an integral part of our faith to love those who believe differently, even going so far as to bless those who are persecuting us.
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@disgusted
You say that God began to exist when a certain people gave God a certain created name not because it is true, but because you are in denial of what The Ultimate Reality means.
The Ultimate Reality did not begin to exist.
The Ultimate Reality is God.
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@keithprosser
It is no "hunch" or "preference" that The Supreme and Ultimate Reality exists, it is the only Truth that all but the most stubborn of fools can be 100% certain of.
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@3RU7AL
The Ultimate Reality is not a theory, it is absolutely necessary, and the fact that denying the ultimate reality's existence is patently self defeating should be enough proof that God must exist to all but the most stubborn of fools.
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For the present state to exist, the previous state must die. For the future state to exist, the present state must die.
The Truth, The Word of God, Christ is the persistent reality that ties the past to the present and the future. As Christ's incarnation united all of creation to His flesh, all of creation is as the flesh of Christ.
Thus Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and apon those in the tombs, bestowing life.
For
"For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."
That is why, to know The One True God and The One sent Jesus Christ is to know eternal life, for faith in the flesh is faith is the embrace death. The flesh cannot save itself. The flesh can not even exist by itself. It is only God that saves.
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@Dustandashes
The Old Testament that we use in the Orthodox Church is the LXX, and translations we use are from this. The texts we use for the new testament are slightly different from, but probably closest to the textus receptus that The King James and New King James are translated from.
So what do you know about Orthodox Christianity?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Things are not as they seem.
A pretty simple evidence of Ultimate Reality.
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@disgusted
The Ultimate Reality can not be an invention, as that implies that The Ultimate Reality at one time was not. The Ultimate Reality is by essence eternal, pre-eternal even, as The Ultimate Reality's existence is not contingent on time, but time's existence is contingent on The Ultimate Reality.
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@keithprosser
To say there is no ultimate reality is self defeating and foolish. You might as well be saying, "I cannot be trusted to tell the truth."
As you do not accept what should truly be the common ground of humanity, that is, God's existence, how can you possibly hope to know who Jesus is?
Yet knowing Jesus Christ and The One True God is eternal life.
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@croweupc
See, the Orthodox Church understands that spiritual delusion is a thing. We call this prelest.
So no, we don't simply accept visions as coming from God.
One of the advantages that we Orthodox have over the protestants is that we have a living monastic tradition that goes back to the very beginning. We have a lot of experience dealing with prelest, as this is a big part of what monasticism is!
As we consider the church to be a spiritual hospital, we have our method down to a science.
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@keithprosser
It is a mistake to say that God is based off a man who walked the Earth after people were already aware of God's existence.
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@keithprosser
The divine Jesus is God, who is certainly not made up.
Without "Divine Jesus", there is no "historical Jesus", because the historical Jesus is the divine Jesus.
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@croweupc
Orthodox Christianity is Truth worship. Our God is The Truth.
We love The Truth through purifying the heart, cleansing the nous.
If you do this, you will love people. If you love the things of this world instead of God, you will prefer your own desires and passions, and despise people.
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@croweupc
Orthodox Christian theology is expressed in apodictic truths.
The problem with unenlightened heterodox forms of Christianity is that they don't get this. It wasn't long after Rome broke away that scholasticism developed. The idea that Christianity was based on philosophy or rationalistic thi king rather than the revelation of apodictic truth.
The very natural result of this is the total corruption of the Latin church, the protestant reformation, and post-Christian philsophy.
Where does it lead?
Nihilism. That's pretty much what you are left with.
And thst is what denying God is. Nihilism. The Ultimate Reality is God.
So no, there isn't any argument you can make that convince me Christianity is wrong, because you are an atheist. You're obviously a fool. You're stated position is "Nothing I say is true", which is the logical implication of "There is no ultimate reality"
I have put a great deal of thought into what I believe, and I take it very seriously. As that is the case, I don't respect your condescending view towards those who might believe as I do, as I have revealed to you that as an atheist, you have no ground to stand on.
You are simply badly educated. Thankfully, I am here to educate. Unfortunately, I can not educate someone who thinks they know better.
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@croweupc
If you think God is an invisible man in the clouds with a beard, this is a testament to how badly educated even those who allegedly teach the bible can be in protestant churches.
Our religion is quite literally Truth worship. So I don't accept that you were ever anything but ignorant concerning Christian orthodoxy.
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@EtrnlVw
Unfortunately for you, your words carry no weight to me.
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@EtrnlVw
Jesus loves you, EtrnlVw.
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@3RU7AL
It is written, "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."
I certainly believe that this judgement which is not my own is self evident. Of course, if someone wishes to stop playing the fool, they can always admit that God exists.
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@EtrnlVw
"...if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift."
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@EtrnlVw
While that might be what you want to believe, it simply isn't true. There is a church, and you would have to ignore a good chunk of the New Testament as well as the historical church that followed the events depicted in The New Testament.
The Orthodox Catholic Church is the church of Christ, flesh and all.
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@EtrnlVw
I am not really interested in your self justification.
Repentance would be a lot more effective.
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@EtrnlVw
Is that why Jesus said, "...I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."?
Is that why Jesus said, "...if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."?
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@EtrnlVw
"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love...... If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?"
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@croweupc
I was raised by sex, drugs, and rock and roll, so your narrative simply doesn't apply to me.
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@EtrnlVw
As you open with calling me a dummy, I have ignored everything else you said.
Grace is given to the humble, not the arrogant.
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@Polytheist-Witch
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it."
That's about how much it matters.
Regardless, I dispute your accusation.
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@3RU7AL
All things are not "parts" of God as if God was made up of cells.
Creation is united to God by energy, not essence. What that means is that Orthodox Christianity understands God in a panentheistic sense, not a pantheistic sense. Creation and God are very distinct, but not in a dualistic sense. The energy of God pervades creation. God is present in creation through His Word and Spirit. Though this divine energy shares God's essence, and is thus uncreated, creation itself is distinct in an ontological sense.
So it would be incorrect to say that all things are "parts" of God. Though God is in everything, and all things subsist on God, created things are not God, pieces of God, or cells in God's body. If everything in creation was obliterated, God would exist eternally the same. The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Today is June 21st, the day we remember many saints, one of which is Saint Julian of Tarsus and his mother.
The Holy Martyr Julian of Tarsus was born in the Asia Minor province of Cilicia. He was the son of a pagan senator, but his mother was a Christian. After the death of her husband the mother of Saint Julian moved to Tarsus, where her son was baptized and raised in Christian piety. When Julian reached age 18, a persecution against Christians began under the emperor Diocletian (284-305). Among those arrested was Saint Julian. They brought him before the governor Marcian for trial, and for a long time they urged him to renounce Christ. Neither tortures nor threats, nor promises of gifts and honors could convince the pious youth to offer pagan sacrifice and deny Christ. The holy confessor remained steadfast in his firm faith.
For a whole year they led the martyr through the cities of Cilicia, everywhere subjecting him to interrogation and tortures, after which they threw him in prison. Saint Julian’s mother followed after her son and prayed that the Lord would strengthen him. In the city of Aegea, she besought the governor to permit her to visit the prison, ostensibly to persuade her son to offer sacrifice to idols. She spent three days in prison with Saint Julian, exhorting him to be strong until the end.
Saint Julian was again brought to stand before the governor. Thinking that the mother had persuaded her son to submit to the imperial decree, the governor began to praise her prudence. But suddenly she boldly confessed Jesus Christ, and even more fearlessly and boldly denounced polytheism. The governor then gave orders to cut off her feet, since she had accompanied her son from Tarsus. They tied the Martyr Julian into a sack, filled with sand and poisonous snakes, and threw it into the sea. The body of the sufferer was carried by the waves to the shores of Alexandria, and with reverence was buried by a certain pious Christian. The martyr’s death occurred in about the year 305. Afterwards his relics were transferred to Antioch. Saint John Chrysostom honored the holy Martyr Julian with an encomium.
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@3RU7AL
I read your first sentence and ignored the rest, because I simply cannot bring myself to respect your lack of reverence for the subject matter.
We aree not talking about a fill in the blank. We are talking about The Truth itself, which you take as noumenon, a mental construct. The Ultimate Reality is not creation. You say God is creation. You are not respecting the subject matter.
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