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@mustardness
The Ultimate Reality is not contingent on observation.
What you are calling reality is in fact creation.
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@3RU7AL
If you don't believe The Ultimate Reality, that is, what TRULY is real rather than simply true in a sense, you are a fool.
And as you make no effort to verify these things yourself, but instead rely soley on your ability to rationalize these things with your mind, your opinion has hardly any value.
You are, after all, unwilling to go through the process necessary to have these things revealled to you.
The Ultimate Reality exists, and that is our God. You don't understand what that means so you associate this with space aliens. Which is STUPID.
But if you really desired theophany, theoria, and even theosis, this is in the experience of the church.
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@3RU7AL
The Ultimate Reality is not a hypothesis, it is a certainty.
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@Stephen
No, my beef is that no matter what answer you receive you are going to put it in one of those categories.
You have your mind made up, and you are simply making a mockery of the subject.
Which is a shame, because some of these would otherwise be good questions. If your intentions were pure, you'd get alot more. Instead you want to be a wanker.
So this is what you get.
Wank
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@Stephen
No one cares.
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On this June 20th, we celebrate the memory of hieromartyr Methodius...
The Hieromartyr Methodius, Bishop of Patara (Lycia in Asia Minor), was distinguished for his genuine monastic humility. Calmly and with mildness he instructed his flock, but he firmly defended the purity of Orthodoxy and he energetically contended against heresies, especially the widespread heresy of the Origenists. He left behind him a rich literary legacy: works in defense of Christianity against paganism, explications of Orthodox dogmas against the heresy of Origen, moral discourses, and explanations of Holy Scripture.
St Methodius was arrested by the pagans, steadfastly confessed before them his faith in Christ, and he was sentenced to death by beheading in the year 312.
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Unlike protestantism, we do have an understanding of spiritual delusion and a real therapeutic method that works.
You won't see anyone rolling on the floor babbling in gibberish sanctimoniously here! We know what spirit that comes from, and it ain't holy!
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@croweupc
You don't really know my faith, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about why I believe. You are right though in that I am very secure that we have seen the true light, that we have received the heavenly spirit; that we have found the true faith, worshipping the undivided Trinity: for He hath saved us.
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@croweupc
The proof is really in church history. Where can we start?
The New Testament that everyone uses to this day was determined by the church hundreds of years after the events depicted in them. The "canon" being identical to what Saint Athanasius recommended. Saint Athanasius being the Orthodox Catholic Bishop of Alexandria.
The Roman Catholic Church is in schism, and the easiest way this can be shown is in their altering of the creed of the church.
At the council of Chalcedon, it was ruled that any change to the creed would result in anathema, or a curse. This was reiterated at the council of constantinople in 879-880,
This is not something that can be done without a true ecumenical council.
But Rome added "and the son" to the creed without consulting the rest of the church.
Also, the bishop of Rome asserts supremacy over the entire church, which is simply not orthodox. They created a secular government in the papal states.
So if you ask an Orthodox if the Pope is Catholic, instead of getting a "Duh, of course", you might instead get a "Well, actually..."
The Orthodox Catholic Church is the very historical church of the apostles, the very one which Jesus promised "the gates of hell will not overcome"
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Someone please think of the children.
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@Omar, who blocked me
The Ultimate Reality is God, so if something is real, it can only be real by God.
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@croweupc
It sounds to me like the form of Christianity you were exposed to was heretical to begin with.
See, being a protestant, you of course didn't have the church. You didn't have holy tradition. Your entire religion is based off the bible and either your own interpretation of it or some unenlightened preacherman's.
The Christianity you know is not the church.
Paul's disputes were solved within his lifetime. This alleged dispute is overstated. Paul was in the church. This along with the alleged difficulties at the first ecumenical council are the only way protestants can justify their existence outside of the church. The ourpose of the ecumenical councils is to make clear what the chur h always taught. Arians are not Christians. They may be able to get away with calling themselves Christians in protestant land, but we the Orthodox Church know the faith, and this is not it.
The purpoose of every single ecumenical council was to make clear what the church hss always taught in the face of rising heresy. We Orthodox sctually do study these things. Protestants do not. If they did, they would be forced to acknowledge that the churches they belong to are can not be the historical and true Orthodox Catholic Church.
So no, I am not surprised you fell away. You never knew the faith to begin with. Orthodox Christianity is very different, and it would be a mistake to think that familiarity with protestant forms of Christianity is familiarity with Orthodox Christianity.
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@keithprosser
@Athias
It is the absolute truth that nothing could exist without God, who we certainly acknowledge as the creator. It is not possible that a scientific theory can refute this reality.
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@croweupc
The Ultimate Reality is God.
Can you think of anything greater? Of course not.
The law and the prophets is summed up as "Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself"
How do you see this for yourself? Don't wait until your heart is pure before going to church, go to church and let it purify your heart. The Orthodox Church knows what it is doing. It is science. We also, having been doing this for thousands of years, know that speaking of the mysteries plainly does not communicate them. This is of course an observation that is confirmed in scripture when it speaks of those who see being blind and those who hear being deaf.
The church does not believe in persecuting heretics or pagans. There have been times in history when secular governments have done these things, believing it was their duty to do so, but the church is not a secular authority. Even when governments tried to merge church and state, the chur h has always maintained that it should be distinct.
The bible is our book, we know what it is for, how it should be interpreted, etc. The Church wrote the new testament and compiled its scriptures. You say the oldest old testament is in Greek. The Orthodox Church uses this as its old testament. But bibliolatry is certainly an error. We know what we teach, and the bible is used to teach that.
We know what we teach is true, because it is something that can be witnessed and seen for yourself. I can't really transfer that epignosis to you, it is something that you would aquire through the church.
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@keithprosser
It is really easy to come to this conclusion when this seems to be a big crusade among apostates.
But yeah, bad education probably has more to do with it.
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@disgusted
The idea that maybe a Russian bishop was ordained in Constantinople or something must be mind blowing to you.
Yes, apostolic succession is one of the defining characteristics of the church, and there is not a single bishop who can not show you their lineage.
Why don't you go to the source, like say, a bishop and ask them?
Unless you are scared of bursting into flames from walking into a church.
You could always be a coward about it and send them a letter. That way, you won't have to mind your manners!
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@disgusted
Translation: My mind is made up, my questions are facetious, and even though you aren't going to answer them because you know that, I am going to prance around in victory and have my pride parade.
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@disgusted
You being unaware or willfully ignorant does not negate the existence of evidence.
I will give you nothing, because you are a nihilist, and that is what you want.
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@3RU7AL
Insight comes from God. Your part in that equation is a matter of cooperation.
Infallible is not really a good word to use especially when we are talking about texts, which are by nature interpreted. The Orthodox use and interpretation of scripture is inerrant.
That is what "Orthodox" means. Right believing.
The Ultimate Reality is God, without a doubt.
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@disgusted
The Russian Church obviously didn't exist until bishops moved to Russia.
Bishops who certainly were apostolic.
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@disgusted
The church wasn't planted in Russia at 83 AD.
Here is a better idea. Take my assertion, and do your own homework. I'm not going to sit here and trudge through 2 thousand years of names so that your unbelief won't be satisfied.
Go to a Russian Orthodox Church and ask questions if you are really interested!
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@croweupc
Though you may not find this a satisfying answer, true as it is...
We have free will. God is not a rapist, and does not force Himself onto us. We distance ourselves from God when out of our own free will prefer the vanities of this world and the feeding of our passions.
Jesus said "Blessed are the pure in heart, they will see God."
So seeing God is a matter of purifying the heart, the nous. This is our intellect as well as our motivations. What leads us and influences us. Whether you see God or not, God is there.
The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God. It should be no hard thing to recognize that this God exists.
That is the God we the Orthodox Catholic Church believes in. We witness this in Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
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@disgusted
Making sex an idol before God.
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@ludofl3x
We are the historical church.
Every other form of Christianity can be traced to its deviation from The Orthodox Catholic Church.
Ours is the true church. If you are not going to believe, you won't believe. I am not going to be able to convince you otherwise.
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Whether an atheist is clever or not, they direct their intellect towards wickedness which makes them fools.
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@3RU7AL
The Ultimate Reality is God.
Therefore belief in God's existence is the only reasonable position.
Atheism is self defeating and patently idiotic.
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@Dr.Franklin
I have to disagree on the "anyone can interpret" bit.
In fact, I would go so far as to say any interpretation outside the church can and should be dismissed outright, as the bible is not their scripture to interpret. The holy spirit is with the church.
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I am fairly convinced that sexual immorality is the main reason youngsters leaving the church. That and a very overbearing culture of moral relativity, pride in the self, and entitlement.
Pride. Thats really it. Pride. I have yet to meet anyone who said otherwise who did not simply reinforce this in my mind.
Part of me also kind of wants to blame the confusion caused by so many heretical forms of Christianity that are allowed to flourish in The United States. This confuses both non-Christian and Christian alike.
Orthodox Christianity is a pretty small minority in the states. We had a late start. We're growing an awful lot though, especially from converts. I hope as we become more visible Christianity in this country will become more Orthodox.
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@3RU7AL
I have nothing to do with governmental policies.
An illegal immigrant is committing a crime. It's very simple. They need to go through the proper process like anyone else. If there is something wrong with the process, then maybe people should change the process.
If they don't go through the proper process, they shouldn't be surprised if they get punished for a crime.
Allowing illegal immigrants to vote is stupid, as is allowing the representative influence in an area to be boosted by illegal immigrants. This is not a human rights issue so much as it is a government taking logical steps to maintain its integrity.
I have nothing to do with government policies.
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@Stephen
Keep frothing at the mouth, it makes people take you seriously.
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@Stronn
Considering Christian discipline has a great deal to do with Thanksgiving, self denial, the subduing of the passions, and abstination from idolatry, it seems rather bizarre to me that you would be unawares that the good old USA's culture is literally the polar opposite of this.
US culture is overtly satanic, nominal Christians aside. Pride, self indulgence, embracing of the passions, and the normalization of idolatry.
The USA is thoroughly pagan in every regard.
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@Outplayz
Given my assessment, I am not surprised at your declaration.
I stand by my assessment.
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Lesson learned
Spend enough time at the gym and your abs become pornographic.
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Translation: give me something I can argue with.
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The bible is not really intended to be a scientific manual.
That said, whether evolution as it is taught is a reality or not, it had little bearing on the faith.
If evolution is a reality, certainly it is God's process!
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@Outplayz
You love the creature more than the creator. I stand by my assessment.
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@Outplayz
For you, it would be hell because you are attached to death.
You don't really know Jesus. That is why I asked you, "who do you say he is?"
Lies, greed, and power have nothing to do with it.
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@Stephen
Quite the contrary, I would be much more delighted to see you enlightened.
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No, that is not what I'm saying. Jesus was both human and God in Mary's womb. What I am saying is that God, as an eternal Being, cannot be born. He always is. You are birthing the two natures together in the birth process. The child is born, the Son is given.
We both of course know that God is eternal. God does not have a beginning, even The Word, being co-eternal with God.
But it was God who was in mary's womb, and God who was born of the virgin Mary.
No, not his guilt. We are judged on our own guilt and sin. We inherited the penalty for his sin,
This is certainly the Orthodox position. I think we agree on the rest.
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@Outplayz
Eternal life is free from the delusions and conflict of your fleshly self. You say we don't think of the implications of "infinite", but that in itself is not a word we use.
Eternity the way we understand it is timeless.
Who is Jesus Christ?
The very Word of God incarnate, conquering death by death and His resurrection, bringing into himself all things and reconciling all to God.
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@3RU7AL
It certainly puts the issue away from rights as a form of entitlement to "all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
Of course we are to love foreigners, but foreigners in those times were no more Hebrews than those living outside of them were. They certainly were not allowed to take part in the Mosaic religion without first becoming Israelites.
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@rosends
We understand The Word of God as being The Truth. The Holy Spirit as The Spirit of Truth.
And truly, something doesn't exist unless it exists in Truth.
We understand our relationship with God as being in Spirit and Truth.
That is, our relationship with God is through The Most Perfect Image of The The Truth, God's Word, which we call The Son, who we understand as being begotten before all of creation. Along with The Holy Spirit, that proceeds from The Father, again, before all creation, through The Son, and dwelling in us by cooperation.
We say that God manifests Himself in creation through His Word and Spirit, and so that is how we know God.
Creation itself being the flesh of the incarnate Word of God. That flesh being taken from The Virgin Mary(creation). So God is with us, nearer than our breath, filling all things.
And so we say that God is revealed to us in Trinity, not that God is divided or worse yet, 3 Gods, but 1 God who is revealed in these 3 hypostases or persons. 1 Ousa.
And truly, something doesn't exist unless it exists in Truth.
We understand our relationship with God as being in Spirit and Truth.
That is, our relationship with God is through The Most Perfect Image of The The Truth, God's Word, which we call The Son, who we understand as being begotten before all of creation. Along with The Holy Spirit, that proceeds from The Father, again, before all creation, through The Son, and dwelling in us by cooperation.
We say that God manifests Himself in creation through His Word and Spirit, and so that is how we know God.
Creation itself being the flesh of the incarnate Word of God. That flesh being taken from The Virgin Mary(creation). So God is with us, nearer than our breath, filling all things.
And so we say that God is revealed to us in Trinity, not that God is divided or worse yet, 3 Gods, but 1 God who is revealed in these 3 hypostases or persons. 1 Ousa.
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@3RU7AL
Loving a god is not enough.
There is One True God.
The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.
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@rosends
I of course could agree with what you are saying there, but you intentionally leave out the eternal word of God knowing that I will tell you this is the Jesus Christ I speak of.
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@zedvictor4
A scientist is one who follows the methodology of the scientific method.
An engineer can be a scientist.
But right, not necessarily scientists.
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@Stephen
You and me both.
For
"no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
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