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@3RU7AL
That depends entirely on whether or not you love God, because loving mankind is like loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind.
If you love God, would you defile His image?
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@rosends
It is The Word of God that gave you your form, and The Holy Spirit breathed into you that gives you your life. These being united in essence with the Holy unoriginate Father, who is blessed now and forever and unto ages of ages amen.
The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God, and you should know, and should be able to say, "Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."
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@keithprosser
I think it is worth noting that in Orthodoxy, we do not teach that man inherited Adam's guilt. This is something they teach in heterodox forms of Christianity.
As far as the "scapegoat spell", it is written,
"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year."
And even the prophet king David, before wrote...
"For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."
The way the Orthodox Church understands the sacrifice of Jesus is that God became death that death would be conquered, and all of creation would be united to Him in the resurrected fleshly nature of the divine hypostasis of The Son, being united to the divine nature of The Word of God.
The point is that God is incarnate, filling all of creation. This a repudiation of what the so called "gnostics" claim, which is that there is creation which is all ugly evil and bad, and God who is seperate from creation. We say that God fills creation, and is ever present. Through the incarnation, creation has effectively been deified, being united with the divine energies of God.
For Christ is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.", and it is this and the resurrection that has been revealed to His church, filled with The Holy Spirit of Truth.
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@PGA2.0
So are you saying that Jesus was or wasn't God in Mary's womb?
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@PGA2.0
A man lived perfectly before God to restore the relationship lost in Eden.
Can you say that Mary carried God in her womb and gave birth to Him?
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I just looked up BrotherDtHomas, as he has an account here.
Doesn't look orthodox
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@Outplayz
Heaven is Jesus Christ.
An Orthodox understanding of Jesus Christ is essential to getting my answer.
So who do you say Jesus Chriist is?
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I don't know the second guy, but WOA doesn't debate, or even really engage people. He is simply a windbag full of rhetoric, devoid of substance.
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@Outplayz
I am not trying to make you do anything, outplayz.
However, I would be doing you a disservice if I lied to you and simply told you what you want to hear.
You make this into an arbitrary thing, simply a matter of personal discretion. In a sense, yes, we have to make our choice... but at the same time, "There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
I want you too find the right way, and that is nothing I will profit from. You would be in err to ascribe impure motives to my actions.
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@Outplayz
Satanism most certainly is the worship of oneself as god. That is where pride naturally goes.
Greater a feat it is to raise the dead than to truly know thyself!
I am not important, outplayz. I am not trying to make myself something. You on the other hand make yourself out to be god. Who is really trying to make themselves feel bigger?
We don't hold the same values. It would be a mistake for you to project your values on to me.
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@Outplayz
Said the man who worshipped himsellf as god and encouraged others to so the same.
Truly that is "the lie everyone believes to be a model truth" in this perverse, wicked, and prideful generation!
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No one cares what the polls say so far before the election except nerds and maybe kids who are getting to vote for the first time.
And that is why you are posting this topic, because of the news cycle using early polls today to relate to how the election will turn out.
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The only news station I ever watch is CNN and I seem to remember them very consistently projecting a Hillary landslide type win.
They have been pretty much the 24/7 Trump news network since the guy announced he was running.
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I don't believe anyone is deleting poly's posts. I think she's been maybe summoning too many spirits and/or drinking too many a strange brew.
The mods here don't really interfere that much, which I think is fine, and I believe what they say over the witch.
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@Outplayz
"...with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
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@keithprosser
Compassion and empathy in practice are arbitrary because they are emotions.
True love, or charity is not an emotion, though it is compassionate. If we think about how much charity ee have received undeservingly, it may make someone empathetic towards others who are immature in their love or full of fault.
So we may show "charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned."
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@3RU7AL
Well for one, it distinguishes us from complicated sorting machines and gives the human a special innate dignity.
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@Outplayz
“Those of whom I speak and whom I call heretics are those who say that there is no one in our times and in our midst who is able to keep the Gospel commandments and become like the holy Fathers…Now those who say that this is impossible have not fallen into one particular heresy, but rather into all of them, if I may say so, since this one surpasses and covers them all in impiety and abundance of blasphemy. One who makes this claim subverts all the divine Scriptures. I think (that by making this claim) such a person states that the Holy Gospel is now recited in vain, that the writings of Basil the Great and of our other priests and holy Fathers are irrelevant or have even been frivolously written. If, then, it is impossible for us to carry out in action and observe without fail all the things that God says, and all that the saints, after first practicing them have left in writing for our instruction, why did they at that time trouble to write them down and why do we read them in Church? Those who make these claims shut up the heaven that Christ opened for us, and cut off the way to it that he inaugurated for us. God who is above all, stands, as it were, at the gate of heaven and peers out of it so that the faithful see him, and through his Holy Gospel cries out and says, ‘Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest’ (Mt. 11:28). But these opponents of God or, rather, antichrists say, ‘It is impossible, impossible.’”
–St. Symeon the New Theologian
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@Harikrish
Synagogues existed before the destruction of the
Chrismation marks the new covenant, as well the full eucharist.
"And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
For this is my blood of the new testament(Greek word "diathéké", which means covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
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Man is created in God's image.
This is the basis of human rights.
Anything the godless rationalize out of convenience to take the place of this will likely be reasoned away at a later date as circumstances make the very concept of human dignity a burden unbearable to progressive society.
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@3RU7AL
When the technocratic communist society seizes power, 3RU7AL will be down for it!
Until the machine decides that as an obsolete shovel, he must be broken down into base components and reconfigured for the good of the whole.
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Step 1, create sufficiently human like robot.
Step 2, sufficiently human like robot suffrage
Step 3, mass produce voting robots
Step 4, profit
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@Greyparrot
CNN is telling me that they are immigrants, no mention of them being illegal.
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@keithprosser
@3RU7AL
Next the debate should be whether or not robots that pass the turing test should be allowed to vote.
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We should count illegal immigrants during the census so that California gets even more electoral votes.
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@rosends
@ludofl3x
Jediism is not the body of Obi Wan Kenobi.
But even if you all have been physically effected by Obi Wan Kenobi, it would be silly to say that you haven't been more effected by Jesus Christ.
In 2000 years, maybe the most hardcore of history nerds will know of Obi Wan Kenobi, if anyone at all. 2000 years later the common person is at least familiar with the name of Jesus.
How many countless lives have forsaken the passions in pursuit of godliness for Christ's sake? How many lives dedicated to loving others more than the. self? Nobody does for Obi Wan Kenobi.
For Jesus said, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."
For Jesus also said "..the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."
And to this day, Christ still works in this world, a light shining in the darkness, though the darkness does not comprehend it.
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My position from the very beginning is that this debate amounts to little more than intellectual masturbation,Of course it is - this is the philosophy section!
Indeedly
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@3RU7AL
My position from the very beginning is that this debate amounts to little more than intellectual masturbation, because the debate itselfnis ABSURD.
I am also suspicious of the motives of those who push for a worldview that simultaneously relinquishes their own culpability and reduces a human being to a complicated funnel or weather pattern.
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@Polytheist-Witch
@ludofl3x
It is no strange thing that someone standing up for Truth is mocked by those who prefer evil.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I'm probably just stupid.
Bet you feel proud lording yourself over and mocking stupid people.
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@Stephen
Believe what you want to believe. I don't care for the ramblings of haughty heretics.
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@rosends
If you want to get right down to it, all of creation. Is physical evidence of The Word of God.
But yes, I would go so far to say that the church itself is physical evidence of Jesus.
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Omar is a wuss and has me blocked, so he doesn't really want to talk to me. He just wants to be a hateful prejudice meanie.
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@Outplayz
Pride of self quite naturally brings forth the fruit of arbitrariness.
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@Greyparrot
Joe Biden fondling you while sniffing your hair and whispering sweet nothings in your ear...
Or
Donald Trump grabbin you by the pussy...
This is a feminist's dream election.
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@Outplayz
You put your trust in yourself, which is complete and utter foolishness and pride. Your heaven is a delusion brought about by your folly.
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@keithprosser
What I believe is not simply opinion.
Your opinion is blasphemous, impious, and an intentional attack on the faith of the church.
So there is a difference.
Now this topic is about atonement, and The Orthodox Catholic Church is the authority on this subject.
The "no consensus among Christians" is a false assertion, because heretics are hardly Christian. They have no authority on this subject, and if they have the right position it is because it is the same position as The Orthodox Catholic Church.
You are not an authority on this subject either.
Now you can play the smug skeptic to your own just damnation, or you can take this subject seriously, maybe with a little reverence, and hear some good news.
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@Outplayz
There are three types of believers.
Slaves who believe out of fear of punishment.
Mercenaries who believe out of hope reward.
And the sons and daughters who believe because of who God is.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Yet we are having this conversation because of the physical effects of Jesus.
These are physical effects of Jesus that can be witnessed by all.
And that is by definition PHYSICAL EVIDENCE.
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@keithprosser
What a shame, because I think that the theology involved in the two natures and two will of Christ might be relevent to this discussion!
Even in your person, you might notice a conflict between what you really want to do, and what your flesh demands of you.
You don't really want to smoke another cigarette, but the flesh craves it and demands you to!
We can use our free will to choose what we enslave ourselves to.
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It is necessary for the past state to die in order for the present state to exist.
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@keithprosser
@3RU7AL
I thought this was a debate about whether or not 3RU7AL is a robot.
To say you are a robot is to say you are a slave.
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So the greatest shit talker to ever become president is either going to be replaced by a pedophile or a communist.
Nah, it's too early to tell.
Besides, if the last election was indication of anything, it is that polls aren't very reliable.
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@Polytheist-Witch
@ludofl3x
I love it because of what Poly is saying.
Atheists who make pretense of beimg scientific like to say we Christians simply believe what we read.
I love it because pointing out this hypocrisy has made this argument a lot less popular than it used to be. 10 years ago it seemed to be a popular argument. It is now more widely recognized as being a bad choice of argument.
Also, considering I go to a church full of doctors, programmers, and engineers, we are by no means anti-science. It is an accusation that doesn't stick.
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@Polytheist-Witch
@ludofl3x
Clearly we all have been physically effected by Christ.
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I love it when people think they are scientific because they have read a lot of books on science.
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@keithprosser
The point is that you neither know Jesus or what we believe.
Apparently, what we believe is irrelevant to your own opinion, which I don't believe is righteous discernment.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I am telling you the truth. If you showed a little more charity towards others, you might not have as many problems.
Wouldn't hurt to try, right?
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@Polytheist-Witch
For you to say there is no "physical evidence", you would have to deny all the physical effects that Jesus has had on the world. Effects that are plainly visible. How do you explain this giant thousand year old cathedral? That sure looks like physical evidence to me!
How do you explain me? Clearly, Jesus has had a physical effect on me. It has been 2,000 years since Jesus became incarnate as a man through the blessed theotokos and ever virgin Mary. We are still talking about it. Lives are changed by it. Thing are moving.
Physics is the study of causality. There is plenty of physical evidence for Jesus. Don't kid yourself.
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